Jump to content


Is MM rigging the bots for outcome ?

MM bots win lose XP new

  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

losttwo #1 Posted 08 July 2016 - 07:00 PM

    which way do we go?

  • Community Ace
  • 0 battles
  • 12,612
  • [S-S-G] S-S-G
  • Member since:
    05-15-2012

So you are wondering why you lose matches all the time and are thinking the bots are rigged from the start.

Are the matches pre-programmed losses.

Is the win really up to the player and how they play the game despite the bots.

What about the balance of the matches ? are they so out of wack that it is impossible to win.

 

I have been researching match balance for an extremely long time but what made me decide to discuss

" RIGGING " and post what my research has shown me is this post http://forum.worldof...st__20#topmost.

 

Now understand this is only 10 battles from 5:21 AM to 7 something AM  on 7/8/2016.

This is only a fraction and small subset of my research. There is no room on this forum for me to post everything.

 

Bots come in 3 different flavors : beginner, warrior and veteran ....or something like that, could not find the list.

How are they distributed during the match maker process and what criteria determines which side gets what ?

                          Who knows ?

Maybe the skill level of bots is dependent on tier level rather than player skill.

Such as tier 1-4 are beginner  Tier 5-7 are warrior and tier 8-10 are veteran.

I do not have a mod to read what skill level bots are in the matches so it is only a guess for me.

 

What I can do is share my experience over the course of 10 matches at tier 5 flying the Spitfire 1.

I have 290 battles with a 61% win rate in that particular plane and a 3 skilled pilot.  OVERALL 28112 battles 62% win rate.

 

Does my experience level determine the enemies I will face ? or even the friendlies I have on my team ?

I have replaced human pilot names with  TOTAL BATTLES, Win Rate / battles for plane, win rate in that plane.

 

Match # 1 WIN :   If the skill level of bots is determined by players XP then it would stand to reason that we should be facing veteran bots

                  While the enemy should be facing beginner bots. Or because it is a tier 5 are all bots warrior bots ?

Spoiler

 

Match 2 : WIN:  1 human vs 1 human the rest bots.  If bots are rated by tier then both sides would consist the same skill level bots.

                         my guess would be all beginner bots with the enemy having 1 tier 5 warrior bot.

Spoiler

 

Match 3 : Loss,  to be fair I had internet trouble and was basically DC's during this match but included it to show the match makeup.

                          I was also the first one eliminated.

Spoiler

 

Match 4 : Loss : I went low and gave up altitude too soon and the KI-43 nailed me from behind.

Spoiler

 

Match 5 : Win ACE+1 : I stayed high for this match and worked my way from high to low. As you can see by the XP gap

                                    there is no " new " player protection and MM will just toss a match together.

Spoiler

 

Match 6 ; Loss : This match I engaged to late while trying to get everyone rallied to a certain spot I was high while everyone else engaged low.

                           I gave up altitude too late and the XP'd player chased me down. Once I was down I was swarmed by the low altitude enemy.

                           I could not get a lock on a single plane while I was busy evading and being attacked form different angles.

Spoiler

 

Match 7:  Win : With my XP you would think that the enemy would have better bots than mine if the MM rigs the game.

                        The enemy would have all warrior bots and I would have all beginner bots. However perhaps both teams had

                        Warrior bots and I just stayed high picking of the ones that stalled. This match really came down to plane type versus plane type.

Spoiler

 

Match 8: WIN  Tier 5 versus tier 4....no contest. Although the other human tier 5 Spit did put up a good fight I was able to " coordinated attack " for help.

                                                        Once he was gone the match was just clean up and go.

Spoiler

Match 9: Win: Stayed high and worked my way down.  As you can see there is no way of determining " criteria " for match or bot make up.

                       Whatever is in queue at the time is tossed together and bots are added with no " justification " towards a win or loss.

Spoiler

 

Match 10 : Win: This was not even a fair match being basically 3 humans versus 1 human. The enemy human did start high but was overwhelmed by us.

                        The enemy XP-50 bot was chased down out of high altitude at the start of engagement and never tried to come back up.

                         While the Green bots were all high the enemy was all mid to low altitude.

                       Simply a case of us diving on the enemy from above and winning.

Spoiler

 


Edited by losttwo, 08 July 2016 - 07:04 PM.


losttwo #2 Posted 08 July 2016 - 07:19 PM

    which way do we go?

  • Community Ace
  • 0 battles
  • 12,612
  • [S-S-G] S-S-G
  • Member since:
    05-15-2012

As you can see by the battles pictured above there is a large discrepancy in player skill levels and NEW PLAYER's ( plug for Porkins )

The question remains " are the bots placed in the match based on the players in the match "

If the bots are rated according to the enemies experience then the bots are still easy to defeat.

For example: Every battle I was in I should have faced more skilled bots than my enemy had to face ( 1 match would have been the exception )

If I had to face better skilled bots then I did well in the matches and it boils down to how I played the game.

If the bots are just placed will-nilly regardless of player experience then I still did very well based on how i played the game.

 

Situational awareness, pilot skill, player skill and knowledge of the planes are the keys to winning.

Of course so is going to high altitude and diving on the enemy.

 

One important aspect of this game is the ability to gain help from the bots via key commands.

 

Now this was of course based on flying a tier 5. I can post more at higher tiers later.



TeamTerrible #3 Posted 08 July 2016 - 07:32 PM

    First Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 228 battles
  • 2,137
  • [S-S-G] S-S-G
  • Member since:
    12-29-2012

funny, i just left a battle that had 0 AA firing at the enemy bots and my plane suddenly lost control when we had the chance to win

 

but at this point i could care less, it is what is and the game can die tonight and i wouldn't care.


 

 

         


losttwo #4 Posted 08 July 2016 - 07:37 PM

    which way do we go?

  • Community Ace
  • 0 battles
  • 12,612
  • [S-S-G] S-S-G
  • Member since:
    05-15-2012
Basically each match boils down to Plane type versus Plane type.

clodhoppr #5 Posted 08 July 2016 - 08:05 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 1077 battles
  • 456
  • [SF] SF
  • Member since:
    02-13-2013

View Postlosttwo, on 08 July 2016 - 07:19 PM, said:

As you can see by the battles pictured above there is a large discrepancy in player skill levels and NEW PLAYER's ( plug for Porkins )

The question remains " are the bots placed in the match based on the players in the match "

If the bots are rated according to the enemies experience then the bots are still easy to defeat.

For example: Every battle I was in I should have faced more skilled bots than my enemy had to face ( 1 match would have been the exception )

If I had to face better skilled bots then I did well in the matches and it boils down to how I played the game.

If the bots are just placed will-nilly regardless of player experience then I still did very well based on how i played the game.

 

Situational awareness, pilot skill, player skill and knowledge of the planes are the keys to winning.

Of course so is going to high altitude and diving on the enemy.

 

One important aspect of this game is the ability to gain help from the bots via key commands.

 

Now this was of course based on flying a tier 5. I can post more at higher tiers later.

 

I am not sure: 1. Specifically what you are researching, 2. How you are researching it, and 3. Your conclusions.

I believe your question was whether or not the mm pre-determines battle outcome? If so (or not so) how does it accomplish that goal, bot skill and/or player skill per tier or otherwise?

The data you provided does not answer your questions.

The only thing is shows is you went 7 and 3 at tier 5 flying a spitfire. 

To begin with you need to document the rating of each player and bot at the beginning of each match. Compare those ratings with the results at the end of each battle and see if the high rating players and bots lead the team in kills, damage, and overall points. You also need to document which battle had teams vs. teams and not. Also which battle had players flying attack compared to the other side not having players flying attack.  This will take more than 10 battles to disprove randomness. AND it would require that each tier be investigated. Take the data from all those variables and compare them on the basis of high to low player/bot ability/results.

If the mm is populating (bots) battles based on player skill there will be an obvious pattern. If the mm is populating battles based on both player skill and some degree of randomness there would be some patterns. If the mm is populating battles based solely on random selection there will be no patterns.

Now to consider the question if mm populates to pre-determine battle outcomes. Again, there would be an obvious pattern with certain players/bots consistently winning/losing regardless of the battle or tier and battles would have clearly lopsided outcomes (ring a bell?)...

 



Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #6 Posted 08 July 2016 - 08:56 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 782 battles
  • 3,526
  • [3NIC] 3NIC
  • Member since:
    01-26-2014
I check my horoscope, biorhythms and blood sugar and put those results into a program to analyze what and how much I should be drinking. From there I get a static result in my mind as to what what tier and plane I'm going to fly. Next I dial in my inner Hyperstate where I speak in a cross between Glossolalia and the Swedish Chef (this can be witnessed first hand in TS)  while killing noobs like a noob killing machine. I never lose.

if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


Omega_Weapon #7 Posted 08 July 2016 - 08:56 PM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 0 battles
  • 607
  • [GRIEF] GRIEF
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012
Its not happening in every battle, but sometimes the MM does modify bot skill levels to counter a higher skilled player. A few days ago I was in a match vs. 1 other human player and 9 bots per team. He had less than 500 battles experience so still kind of new. The MM compensated by giving his team 2 soldier level bots and 7 newb bots while all 9 of my team's bots were newb level. The opposing 2 soldier bots worked as a flight and made a bee line for me at the start of the match. I was taking lots of damage and just trying to survive long enough for an opening but the enemy human joined them and sealed the deal. Match ended for me in less than 2 minutes. So yeah, its not every match, but once in a while MM will throw something like that at me.

Caecias #8 Posted 09 July 2016 - 03:26 AM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 233 battles
  • 428
  • [-DOW-] -DOW-
  • Member since:
    06-22-2016

View Postclodhoppr1, on 08 July 2016 - 03:05 PM, said:

 

I am not sure: 1. Specifically what you are researching, 2. How you are researching it, and 3. Your conclusions.

I believe your question was whether or not the mm pre-determines battle outcome? If so (or not so) how does it accomplish that goal, bot skill and/or player skill per tier or otherwise?

The data you provided does not answer your questions.

The only thing is shows is you went 7 and 3 at tier 5 flying a spitfire. 

To begin with you need to document the rating of each player and bot at the beginning of each match. Compare those ratings with the results at the end of each battle and see if the high rating players and bots lead the team in kills, damage, and overall points. You also need to document which battle had teams vs. teams and not. Also which battle had players flying attack compared to the other side not having players flying attack.  This will take more than 10 battles to disprove randomness. AND it would require that each tier be investigated. Take the data from all those variables and compare them on the basis of high to low player/bot ability/results.

If the mm is populating (bots) battles based on player skill there will be an obvious pattern. If the mm is populating battles based on both player skill and some degree of randomness there would be some patterns. If the mm is populating battles based solely on random selection there will be no patterns.

Now to consider the question if mm populates to pre-determine battle outcomes. Again, there would be an obvious pattern with certain players/bots consistently winning/losing regardless of the battle or tier and battles would have clearly lopsided outcomes (ring a bell?)...

 

 

Spot on.

 

 


Steel_bomber_ #9 Posted 09 July 2016 - 09:15 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 0 battles
  • 1,519
  • [S-S-G] S-S-G
  • Member since:
    12-28-2013

Sometimes it feels like it, but I think it is the "unluck" of the draw.

 

If there would be more humans some of those would do exactly the same thing as those bots, thus having a big disadvantage from the getgo.

 

Even yesterday the whole flock followed the 2 humans (1 of them was me) there where no planes to be seen, guess what a bot just wanders of alone and engaged a big group of 8 all alone on the other side of the map.

 

I was even pressing F4, nope there he went.........sigh.


THIS PAGE
INTENTIONALLY
LEFT
BLANK
     
 
            

Hearsel #10 Posted 09 July 2016 - 03:09 PM

    Senior Airman

  • Member
  • 102 battles
  • 22
  • Member since:
    01-10-2015

You assume there are different "levels" of bots. I suggest they are the same and based on algorithm they decide how to fight. but don't forget... planetary alignments and karma.

I see all Wargaming games as a deck of cards, and you are dealt what ever WarGaming wants to deal you.... except I do think there are "switches" that the engineers can use to change the game that we aren't meant know about, such as in tournament play etc.. pay offs.. all conspiracy theory.



Caecias #11 Posted 09 July 2016 - 03:19 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 233 battles
  • 428
  • [-DOW-] -DOW-
  • Member since:
    06-22-2016

View PostHearsel, on 09 July 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

You assume there are different "levels" of bots. I suggest they are the same and based on algorithm they decide how to fight. but don't forget... planetary alignments and karma.

I see all Wargaming games as a deck of cards, and you are dealt what ever WarGaming wants to deal you.... except I do think there are "switches" that the engineers can use to change the game that we aren't meant know about, such as in tournament play etc.. pay offs.. all conspiracy theory.

 

It more than obvious - by behavior alone - that there are different levels of bots; that much is observable.

 


 

 


Psicko23 #12 Posted 09 July 2016 - 09:59 PM

    First Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 16 battles
  • 2,721
  • [-WS-] -WS-
  • Member since:
    02-04-2014
There are different level of bots, but all bots have the potential of going full [edited]at a moments notice. 





Also tagged with MM, bots, win, lose, XP, new

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users