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[spoiler] what the Polish tech tree could look like

Poland Państwowe Zakłady Lotnicze P.Z.L.

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J311yfish #1 Posted 06 November 2015 - 11:19 PM

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Work in progress!

 

 

Tier Fighter Heavy Fighter Attack
I P.Z.L. P.1 (09/1929)    
II P.Z.L. P.11 (08/1931)    
III

P.Z.L. P.24/I (10/1933)

  PZL P.24A-G (05/1937-1939)

P.Z.L. P.11g (08/1939)

P.Z.L. 38 Wolf (2 completed) P.Z.L. 23 Crucian Carp (04/1934)
IV

P.24H (1939)

P.Z.L. P.45 Falcon (started 11/1938)

  P.W.S. 42 Falcon (1939)

  R.W.D. 25 Falcon (started 07/1939)

P.Z.L. P.50/I Hawk (02/1939)

  IAR 80 (04/1939+ Romania)

  P.Z.L. 43 (02/1937 for export)
V

P.Z.L. P.50/II Hawk (projected - Jakimiuk)

P.Z.L. 48 Leopard (projected - Misztal/Jakimiuk)

P.Z.L. 46 Catfish (projected - Prauss)

  P.W.S. 46? (projected - Ciokosz)

  R.W.D. 24 (projected)

VI

P.Z.L. P.53 (projected - Jakimiuk)

   
VII

P.Z.L. P.55 (projected - Dubrowski)

  P.W.S. 36 (projected - Bobek-Zdaniewski)

P.Z.L. 54 Lynx (projected - Misztal/Tarczynski)

  P.W.S. 37 (projected - Bobek-Zdaniewski)

P.Z.L. __ Salmon (projected - Prauss)

   Westland Welkin (11/1942 - Prauss in England)

VIII P.Z.L. P.56 Kitty Hawk (projected - Jakimiuk)    
IX

de Havilland DH.113 Vampire (08/1949 - Jakimiuk in Canada)

-- night fighter variant intended for export

-- Goblin 3 3350lb thrust // 4x20mm

 

de Havilland DH.112 Sea Venom (03/1953 - Jakimiuk in Canada)

-- for Great Britain and France

 

 

 

 

de Havilland DH.112 Sea Venom (03/1953 - Prauss in England)

-- for Great Britain and France

X

SNCASE SE.5000 Baroudeur (08/1953 - Jakimiuk in France)

Folland Gnat (08/1954 - Dubrowski in England)

 

LIM-2 (1954+ - licensed MiG-15bis)​​

F.M. 13 (1954 - Misztal)

de Havilland DH.110 Sea Vixen (03/1953 - Prauss in England)

 

 

 

Timeline

 

Designers

 

Sources

 


Edited by J311yfish, 17 November 2015 - 07:20 AM.

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J311yfish #2 Posted 06 November 2015 - 11:20 PM

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Tier I
 
P.Z.L. P.1  -- (09/25/1929)
 

Edited by J311yfish, 23 August 2017 - 09:51 AM.

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J311yfish #3 Posted 06 November 2015 - 11:21 PM

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Tier II
 
P.Z.L. P.11  -- (08/1931)
 

Edited by J311yfish, 07 November 2015 - 11:26 PM.

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J311yfish #4 Posted 06 November 2015 - 11:22 PM

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Tier III
 
P.Z.L. P.24  -- (05/1933)

Edited by J311yfish, 07 November 2015 - 07:35 PM.

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J311yfish #5 Posted 06 November 2015 - 11:23 PM

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Tier IV

 

P.Z.L. P.50 Jastrzab (Hawk) -- (incomplete as of 09/1939)​

 


Edited by J311yfish, 07 November 2015 - 07:42 PM.

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J311yfish #6 Posted 06 November 2015 - 11:24 PM

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Tier V

 

P.Z.L. P.56 Kania (Kitty Hawk) -- (incomplete project)

 


Edited by J311yfish, 09 November 2015 - 11:21 PM.

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J311yfish #7 Posted 06 November 2015 - 11:24 PM

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Tier VI

 

P.Z.L. P.62 (?) -- (incomplete project)

 
 

 


Edited by J311yfish, 07 November 2015 - 07:09 PM.

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J311yfish #8 Posted 06 November 2015 - 11:25 PM

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J311yfish #9 Posted 06 November 2015 - 11:26 PM

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J311yfish #10 Posted 06 November 2015 - 11:27 PM

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J311yfish #11 Posted 06 November 2015 - 11:27 PM

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Tier X

 

LIM-2 (licensed MiG-15bis) -- (09/1954+)

 


Edited by J311yfish, 08 November 2015 - 03:00 PM.

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theponja #12 Posted 07 November 2015 - 12:17 AM

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Nice to see you back to this kind of thread looking forward how look this one. 

I hope we can see new lines soon. Do you have the links to your old posts? I remember you did a great job with the Japanese ones.



broslicer #13 Posted 07 November 2015 - 03:43 AM

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View Posttheponja, on 06 November 2015 - 06:17 PM, said:

Nice to see you back to this kind of thread looking forward how look this one. 

I hope we can see new lines soon. Do you have the links to your old posts? I remember you did a great job with the Japanese ones.

 

his sig.

EZ.

                                     

 


Dave12w #14 Posted 07 November 2015 - 06:22 AM

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Did the poles even have an all metal monoplane

at the start of ww2, their tier 6 may have to be 

a bi plane :)



J311yfish #15 Posted 09 November 2015 - 12:30 PM

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1st update -- cursory overview

 

At first glance, the Polish tech tree has difficulty making it beyond tier V.

-- P.24H (1939) planned to use 1050hp engine to achieve 460 km/h est.

-- P.50/I (02/1939) was to be stressed for radials up to 1200hp

 

However, if this is information is accurate ...

-- P.50/II (projected) was to be stressed for radials up to 1600hp and possibly go by a new designation as P.53.

-- P.55 (projected) -- design by Dabrowski to use Hispano-Suiza 12Y and 12Z 1400-1600hp engines (a.k.a. "P.62" in error).

-- P.56 (projected) -- design by Jakimiuk to use Hispano-Suiza 12Y and 12Z 1400-1600hp engines.

-- reliance on a variety of engine sources (Bristol under license, Gnome-Rhone, Gnome-Rhone under license by IAR, Hispano Suiza, etc.)

 

... and given that the SNCAC NC.1070 recently added to the game is Tier VIII, with Gnome-Rhone 14R-24/25 1600hp engines of the same tier, then it may be possible, if sufficient information exists, to exaggerate development all the way to Tier VIII.

 

Consideration for follow-on development from P.24, outside of Poland, gives the IAR 80 from Romania (Tier IV).  Development there stops unless permitted to use the BMW 801 (Tier VI/VII/VIII) as used in Fw 190, which the Germans did not allow.  Junkers Jumo 211Da 1220hp (Tier VI) was trialed once but abandoned.

 

As for jets, some investigation is still needed but here are some angles.

-- Jakimiuk helped with DH.112 Venom in England (1948), and SE.5000 Baroudeur light fighter in France.

-- Dabrowski helped with Folland Gnat light fighter in England.  Ultimately used in Finland and India.

-- Soviet influence ultimately leads to MiG-15 and MiG-15bis produced under license as Lim-1 and Lim-2.

 

As for how they might play in comparison to existing aircraft, it is too early to make that kind of estimation, but this much is clear:

-- light fighters with emphasis on maneuverability, less emphasis on speed.

 

Future updates involve greater detail across the board.

-- accountability for engines and armament

-- heavy fighters / attack aircraft

-- Aircraft ordered in 1939 (Spitfire I, Hurricane I, MS.406)

-- Polish pilots in exile (Hurricanes, Caudron C.714, Yaks, others)


Edited by J311yfish, 09 November 2015 - 12:43 PM.

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Dave12w #16 Posted 09 November 2015 - 12:56 PM

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Nice work, look forward to seeing it completed

J311yfish #17 Posted 15 November 2015 - 02:30 PM

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Polish tech tree proposals via Google.

 

 

 

 

 

and related threads:

 

http://forum.worldof...81-polish-tree/

http://forum.worldof...to-planes-tree/

http://forum.worldof...h-japanese-etc/

http://forum.worldof...91-do-you-want/

http://forum.worldof...tree-of-europe/

http://forum.worldof...lish-tech-tree/

http://forum.worldof...ne-for-mission/

 

http://forum.worldof...h-tech-tree-v2/

http://forum.worldof...d-of-warplanes/

 


Edited by J311yfish, 16 November 2015 - 12:20 AM.

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J311yfish #18 Posted 23 August 2017 - 09:56 AM

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Polish tech tree proposal by Blockhaj

https://ritastatusre...-poland-part-1/


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armydoc83 #19 Posted 23 August 2017 - 08:54 PM

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So what would the general national feel for the Polish line be? Americans are bosomy and zoomy, German gas are more suited to hunting soviet gas than ground targets, Japanese are turn and burn with paper Hp. What would the niche be for the Polish to not make them a carbon copy of another country/line?

J311yfish #20 Posted 25 August 2017 - 04:18 AM

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View Postarmydoc83, on 23 August 2017 - 03:54 PM, said:

So what would the general national feel for the Polish line be?
 
What would the niche be for the Polish to not make them a carbon copy of another country/line?

 

I am not a developer but I will attempt to answer your question.  A line of Polish fighter aircraft, as presented above, would probably resemble the French.  Emphasis on low weight and high maneuverability.  If you can imagine the Type 91 in-game (which was developed with the assistance of Dewoitine engineers, reminiscent of the NiD 62) extrapolated to tier II and III, and then extrapolation perhaps of the Caudron C.714 (also flown by Polish pilots) -- that would seem reasonable to me.

 

As for the other unbuilt projects (paper and/or vapor), such as those at later tiers, I cannot vouch for those and will make no estimation.  It has been my goal to rely on primary sources only -- those that have been authenticated and published -- rather than unsubstantiated websites (Wikipedia included).

 

As noted earlier above, several aircraft designers absconded from Poland to England, France, or Canada to continue their trade (contributing work for De Havilland Vampire, Sea Venom, Sea Vixen; Westland Welkin; Folland Gnat; SNCASE SE.5000 Baroudeur).  It may be that a Polish line, if ever implemented, would not continue to Tier X, but may instead end before Soviet influence (so-called copy/paste), but that is for a developer to decide.

 

It has been stated in the past (dev blogs, etc.) that the decision to introduce new lines is based in part on the diversity that those new aircraft would bring to gameplay.  That is a fair way to proceed in the beginning, but eventually there will be limits in the variability of aircraft that can be included.  At or around the time that saturation point is reached -- perhaps then a shift to inclusion of aircraft for historical purposes (Polish, French, Italian), such as for events, may occur, but I speculate.


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