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Shorten the range of guns!


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_Laserguided_ #41 Posted 24 August 2015 - 05:16 PM

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One of these isn't a "sim".... If you can't discern that from these pictures I suggest you seek a refund of any and all tuition paid.

 

 

 



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BrushWolf #42 Posted 24 August 2015 - 08:49 PM

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View PostPostTraumatic, on 24 August 2015 - 10:32 AM, said:

For the record he is right.  We have the benefit of having the Lead compensator.  In reality, during WW2 they did not "practice" deflection shooting.  IE Leading their shot.  They concentrated on getting behind their enemy close.  That is why the convergence was so close compared to the potential range of the gun.  They needed a close focal point where they were sure their limited ammo would WORK and not be wasted

 

''The principles of deflection shooting against wildfowl and airplanes were exactly the same,'' he said. But he acknowledged one difference: ''Airplanes could sometimes return your fire.''  Johny Johnson

 

 

This is a video game though and in this game we are given all these nifty tools like lead-compensating marks to shoot at.  I would love to see how well you all would fare if that was removed lol.

 

Reality for the fighters was very different.  Since the game is not based on reality we kind of have to take it for what it is.

 

 

The US Navy did practice deflection shooting but they were the lone exception as far as i know.

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dityboycom #43 Posted 26 August 2015 - 03:53 AM

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View PostFreeFOXMIKE, on 23 August 2015 - 12:53 PM, said:

even though slightly different

 

http://www.military....ion-course.html

 

Phase 3

During phase 3 of training, you actually complete the official Army qualification course. You must pass the minimum standards in order to graduate from Army basic combat training.

During this phase, you shoot targets (single and pop-up) from three firing positions:

  • Supported prone, in which you stand and fire with your rifle supported by a barricade
  • Unsupported prone, where you stand and fire without anything to support your rifle
  • Foxhole (replaced the kneeling position), where you kneel and shoot from within a simulated foxhole.

Tip: The foxhole position allows you to support your weapon on the solid ground. In my experience, foxhole is the most stable firing position. In order to qualify, you must hit at least 23 out of 40 pop-up targets at rangesvarying from 5 meters to 300 meters (approximately 80 to 327 yards).

From Basic Training for Dummies, copyright © 2011 by Wiley Publishing, Inc., Hoboken, New Jersey. Used by arrangement with John Wiley & Sons, Inc.

 

 

This would be out of date as Foxhole hasn't been a qualification requirement for more than 10 years.

Heibges #44 Posted 26 August 2015 - 04:14 AM

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View PostBrushWolf, on 24 August 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

 

The US Navy did practice deflection shooting but they were the lone exception as far as i know.

 

I think Gabby Gabreski was a great deflection shooter.
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Heibges #45 Posted 26 August 2015 - 04:36 AM

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View PostKRUPI, on 22 August 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

The range of the guns are over ranged by 300m at least.  No one should be able to hit anyone over 250m.  All I know is this give noobs a false sense of their ability to fly.  When they really don't have a clue.  People shouldn't be firing till the are getting ready to break the 300m mark.  This needs to be fixed!  It will make your game better!

 

How do you think you should let players know to not shoot until that range.?

If the problem is firing too early, won't they always fire too early regardless of the actual range of the guns?


"If the Healer gets killed it's the Tank's fault.  If the Tank gets killed it's the Healer's fault.  If the DPS get killed it's their own fault." - various
 

Heibges #46 Posted 26 August 2015 - 04:42 AM

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View PostRedrocket90, on 23 August 2015 - 12:35 AM, said:

There is a difference between being able to AIM effectively beyond 500m and bullets just flat out disappearing. This is not a sim, nor is it intended to be. You are playing a game where the airplanes have hitpoints, and you are whining that its too easy to aim at long range. This is an arcade game. Your whining here is just as relevent as if you went to a BF4 forum and cried about being able to shoot down a helecopter with a SMAW while parachuting off a building (cough.. solo.. cough cough).

 

If you want a sim, go play one and stop polluting the forums of this arcade game.

 

But to be fair, Arcade 3rd Person Shooters, like Gears of War, generally have "intimate combat" where you can admire the pretty 3rd Person Models.  There are also about 20 WW2 Arcade shooters anyways since 1990 and they all have intimate combat.  Even the combat in Ace Combat is close in.

Long range combat is more appropriate to first person "military shooters" like Battlefield or even CoD.

This is another example of Persha not following what everyone else in the industry does.


Edited by Heibges, 26 August 2015 - 04:42 AM.

"If the Healer gets killed it's the Tank's fault.  If the Tank gets killed it's the Healer's fault.  If the DPS get killed it's their own fault." - various
 

Heibges #47 Posted 26 August 2015 - 04:47 AM

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View PostFreeFOXMIKE, on 23 August 2015 - 08:53 AM, said:

even though slightly different

 

http://www.military....ion-course.html

 

Phase 3

During phase 3 of training, you actually complete the official Army qualification course. You must pass the minimum standards in order to graduate from Army basic combat training.

During this phase, you shoot targets (single and pop-up) from three firing positions:

  • Supported prone, in which you stand and fire with your rifle supported by a barricade
  • Unsupported prone, where you stand and fire without anything to support your rifle
  • Foxhole (replaced the kneeling position), where you kneel and shoot from within a simulated foxhole.

Tip: The foxhole position allows you to support your weapon on the solid ground. In my experience, foxhole is the most stable firing position. In order to qualify, you must hit at least 23 out of 40 pop-up targets at rangesvarying from 5 meters to 300 meters (approximately 80 to 327 yards).

From Basic Training for Dummies, copyright © 2011 by Wiley Publishing, Inc., Hoboken, New Jersey. Used by arrangement with John Wiley & Sons, Inc.

 

 

Hi Mike,

A better example might be Tank Table VIII.

The Gunner shoots his 30 Cal Coaxial Machine engagement at 1000m.

The TC shoots his Cal 50 engagement at 500m.

So although in a perfect world the 50 Cal has a longer effective range than the 30 Cal, on a tank the 30 Cal has twice the effective range of the 50 Cal.

I heard an interview with a Red Tail where he said he had the outer guns at 200 yards and the inner guns at 400 yards.

Guns and Cannons attached to a aircraft is pretty jenky.  More or less like a flying shotgun which kind of makes the RNG pretty realistic.


"If the Healer gets killed it's the Tank's fault.  If the Tank gets killed it's the Healer's fault.  If the DPS get killed it's their own fault." - various
 

PostTraumatic #48 Posted 26 August 2015 - 05:44 AM

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View PostHeibges, on 26 August 2015 - 04:14 AM, said:

 

I think Gabby Gabreski was a great deflection shooter.

 

Yes there were "individuals" that were great solo but we were teaching formation flying and those pilots, prior to showing their medal and getting an Ace, were often rated as poor pilots because they would not stick to their formations.  They were seen as having discipline issues.

Edited by PostTraumatic, 26 August 2015 - 05:45 AM.


EspressoForHammy #49 Posted 26 August 2015 - 09:39 AM

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KRUPI is very disciplined. He has other issues, but discipline is not among them.

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BrushWolf #50 Posted 26 August 2015 - 02:31 PM

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View PostHeibges, on 25 August 2015 - 11:14 PM, said:

 

I think Gabby Gabreski was a great deflection shooter.

 

I will agree but the Army didn't train deflection shooting, you either knew how to do it or you didn't and the aces did know how, before the war and I don't know if they were doing it by the end.

Edited by BrushWolf, 26 August 2015 - 04:41 PM.

I used to have a handle on life until it broke off.

                             

 

“The church is near but the road is icy, the tavern is far away but I will walk carefully”

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BOT_ROCKET #51 Posted 26 August 2015 - 09:06 PM

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View PostWhiskeyInYourWater, on 26 August 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

 

  And here is his problem. Two probs actually. The first one is determining who appears to be dumb.  The other is that until he understands this is arcade, he will not understand how off his explanations for his complaints are.

When i was a ten year old mentally disabled monkey child i also had a hard time understanding things, so we really should take it easy on the lil guy.


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KRUPI #52 Posted 27 August 2015 - 06:40 PM

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Wowp simulates flight which means it's a sim.  Regardless what you knuckle heads want to think or how you want to fly.  I fly like its a sim and that is why I flame others.  People want to fly like a arcade game that's why they die in the first min.  Why the people who die in the first min complain and say it's my fault is beyond me.  I have my rules of engagement and know when to engage.  It's not my fault they don't. But if they want to get good at flying pick up this book. "Fighter Combat: Tactics and Manuvers" by Shaw. This is your chance to get better at flying.  If you dont want to get better then don't complain! S! Fix the ammo range!

Edited by KRUPI, 27 August 2015 - 06:42 PM.


BOT_ROCKET #53 Posted 27 August 2015 - 07:58 PM

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View PostKRUPI, on 27, August 2015 - 06:40 PM, said:

Wowp simulates flight which means it's a sim.  Regardless what you knuckle heads want to think or how you want to fly.  I fly like its a sim and that is why I flame others.  People want to fly like a arcade game that's why they die in the first min.  Why the people who die in the first min complain and say it's my fault is beyond me.  I have my rules of engagement and know when to engage.  It's not my fault they don't. But if they want to get good at flying pick up this book. "Fighter Combat: Tactics and Manuvers" by Shaw. This is your chance to get better at flying.  If you dont want to get better then don't complain! S! Fix the ammo range!

Wow... what they say about arguing with idiots is true. I'm done.


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HoH_Wolfblitz #54 Posted 27 August 2015 - 08:30 PM

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View PostRedrocket90, on 27 August 2015 - 07:58 PM, said:

Wow... what they say about arguing with idiots is true. I'm done.

 

It can be entertaining though.



BOT_ROCKET #55 Posted 27 August 2015 - 09:41 PM

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View PostHoH_Wolfblitz, on 27 August 2015 - 08:30 PM, said:

 

It can be entertaining though.

Yeah, but once the horse has been beaten to a certain point, it just becomes a reddish brown stain on the driveway and the fun is gone.


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Pogo68 #56 Posted 27 August 2015 - 10:57 PM

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View PostHeibges, on 25 August 2015 - 08:14 PM, said:

 

I think Gabby Gabreski was a great deflection shooter.

 

View PostPostTraumatic, on 25 August 2015 - 09:44 PM, said:

 

Yes there were "individuals" that were great solo but we were teaching formation flying and those pilots, prior to showing their medal and getting an Ace, were often rated as poor pilots because they would not stick to their formations.  They were seen as having discipline issues.
 

 

The USAAF did not teach deflection shooting at the start of WW2, they did by the middle of WW2 as experienced pilots rotated from the front into training units or became flight, division, squadron and wing leaders.

The RAF even had printed manuals with drawings, illustrations that allowed them to teach it to people who did not read English or read.

 

But if you think about it, the USAAF did teach some deflection shooting even if it was not intentional.

They were using towed aerial targets.

For safety reasons, this ment the trainees had to stay out of the target tow's 5-7 o'clock zone.

This means that in order to hit the towed target the trainees had to aim ahead of the target in order to hit it.

That is called leading the target, or deflection shooting.

 

 

Funny.

Before WW2 the RAF, USAAF believed that the dogfight was done, over, it was something for those old pilots with their goggles and silk scarves flying wooden bi-plane.

The new planes, they were too fast, too heavily armed, they'd kill without the need to dogfight.

 

Sound familiar??

 

btw this was part of the training video made by walt disney for the US


Edited by Pogo68, 28 August 2015 - 12:19 AM.

DICTA BOELCKE for WoWP
    1. Try to secure the upper hand before attacking.
    2. Always continue with an attack you have begun
    3. Open fire only at close range, and then only when the opponent is squarely in your sights
    4. You should always try to keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses
    5. In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind
    6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try run away from his attack, but fly to meet it
    7. When over the enemy's lines, always remember your own line of retreat
    8. It is better to attack in groups of four or six. Avoid two aircraft attacking the same opponent

Heibges #57 Posted 28 August 2015 - 01:21 AM

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What makes a Sim a Sim is

- realistic landing and takeoff

- complex engine management

- trimming the aircraft


 

All other features have appeared in Arcade Flyers,.


"If the Healer gets killed it's the Tank's fault.  If the Tank gets killed it's the Healer's fault.  If the DPS get killed it's their own fault." - various
 

KRUPI #58 Posted 28 August 2015 - 11:05 PM

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View PostRedrocket90, on 22 August 2015 - 11:51 PM, said:

You stand 500m away and let me shoot a machine gun at you. If you are still alive when I'm done, then we can talk.

 

Sure.  If you can hit me 5 football fields away with me moving I would be surprised.  Imagine moving at 300-450 mph!? Don't think so!

_Laserguided_ #59 Posted 28 August 2015 - 11:29 PM

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View PostKRUPI, on 28 August 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

 

Sure.  If you can hit me 5 football fields away with me moving I would be surprised.  Imagine moving at 300-450 mph!? Don't think so!

 

Carlos Hathcock hit a moving target with a M2 at 2,286 yards...

Edited by _Laserguided_, 28 August 2015 - 11:29 PM.


Because it feels to me like you guys would rather play with [edit] Laserguided and that [edit] me off. A [edit]  lot.  -- Auto

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BOT_ROCKET #60 Posted 29 August 2015 - 02:14 AM

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View PostKRUPI, on 28 August 2015 - 11:05 PM, said:

 

Sure.  If you can hit me 5 football fields away with me moving I would be surprised.  Imagine moving at 300-450 mph!? Don't think so!

That would be a decision you would greatly regret. Not only have i done it with an M14 DMR, but it would be downright easy with a 240.


Edited by Redrocket90, 29 August 2015 - 02:16 AM.

Just close your eyes and get ready for the Robo ride of your life.





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