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Air Raid 6 Official Rosters


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Killerpopcorn #21 Posted 02 August 2015 - 01:57 AM

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I know what ya mean jet. The way I see it everyone can either except the challenge or continue to play pub matches like everyone has for the past 2 years. I know some people in here don't except the challenge to get better and rather try to make every tournament/competition easy. Last I checked you have to learn and play at your best to be the best in competitions. At least that's how I am running mine regardless of what people think. Those who practice and give effort to learn will always be better then those who don't.

Air Raid #1: 4th place/Air Raid #2 3rd Place/Air Raid #4 2nd Place/Air Raid #5 9th place

Crossover #1 1st Place/ Launch Event 1st place


Killerpopcorn #22 Posted 02 August 2015 - 02:25 AM

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I understand what you are saying K. You need to remember we hadn't had anything in 2 years. I wanted to get a certain style out that has been played before and has a basic layout for rules and requirements as fast as I could since everyone was hyped about gun lion creating a July tournament. I only hve so many resources I can use before a WG member has to take over. If someone has ideas thy need to put them to use instead of waiting for another tournament to start and bashing how it's not meeting their expectatins.

Air Raid #1: 4th place/Air Raid #2 3rd Place/Air Raid #4 2nd Place/Air Raid #5 9th place

Crossover #1 1st Place/ Launch Event 1st place


macfloam #23 Posted 02 August 2015 - 04:21 AM

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I'm also not bashing the format. You've got a great tournament structure and I'm sure the event will be well organized. However, it's an event that caters to the top 1% of the player base. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but it's incredibly naive to create such a structure AND expect it to appeal to the masses. 

 

In just about every sports competition, all participants win prizes with the winners just winning considerably more. Here's the prize structure for Wimbledon in 2015:

 

Position Prize (£) Total %
Winner 1,880,000 1,880,000 18.2%
2nd 940,000 940,000 9.1%
Semi-Finalists 470,000 940,000 9.1%
Quarter-Finalists 241,000 964,000 9.3%
Fourth Round Losers 127,000 1,016,000 9.8%
Third Round Losers 77,000 1,232,000 11.9%
Second Round Losers 47,000 1,504,000 14.6%
First Round Loser 29,000 1,856,000 18.0%
Total - 10,332,000 100%

 

If you want people to show up to be fodder for the eventual winners, you need to make it worth their while. In the Wimbledon structure, the players who get knocked out in the very first round each receives 0.28% of the prize structure. They have incentive to try their best, because they can win 62% more if they can get past the first round (which would be a dream come true for many of the participants, both there and here). The winner receives 65 times as much as the first round winner, which is perfectly fair - they are the best after all. You're basically saying, "f*ck off, we want it ALL", and then wondering why people aren't volunteering to be your fodder. You'll notice in the tanks tournaments, players who finish in the bottom 50% still get something.

 

So, as I said, your format is fine if you consider this to be a "tournament of champions". But if your goal is to host an event that appeals to everyone, then you've got two choices:

  1. Handicap the teams to make it more competitive (like randomizing the teams, or the PR cap I mentioned earlier), or
  2. Provide incentives for the teams with no hope of finishing in the top 5 

 

For the record, I agree with Jetway. I have no problems with the top teams being comprised of the top players. While I think a PR cap per team would make for an incredibly closely contested event, I also believe that the best players deserve the best rewards. I just don't believe they deserve ALL of them. I also think that a prize structure like the one shown above will not only increase registration by a factor of 10, but it would also give incentive to the weaker players to continue to get better (thus stimulating more interest in the game). For example the TFE "A" team would probably finish around 40th in a 64-team tournament. And we'd now have incentive to keep at it in the hopes of moving up to 30th for the next one. If the next one was in a higher tier, then players would also have incentive to tier up. Conversely, if we played in this event as is, it'd be completely and utter demoralizing with no upside. 

 

And let's put things in perspective here with regards to just how elitist this event is. My Personal Rating ranks me in the top 5% of players, and there's not a team that's been submitted nor one that's being created that would consider me an option for even the 3rd string substitute (and rightfully so). 



GouIdy #24 Posted 02 August 2015 - 05:13 AM

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What percentage of the worlds competitive tennis players even qualify for Wimbeldon?  Comparing a video game that can barely get 600 people on a night to any professional sport makes absolutely no sense.

Every person in this game has the same opportunity to find or field a team to compete in this tournament.  If you are looking for prizes just for showing up then maybe it's not for you but if you want to test

yourself in a competitive team environment then sign up.



macfloam #25 Posted 02 August 2015 - 05:58 AM

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My post is in response to the concerns over the lack of apparent interest in this event. As I've stated multiple times, KP and Marco have done a great job. However, if they want more participants, then they need to do something to attract said participants. "Come and get spanked by the top 1%" isn't a very good sales pitch, and essentially responding to all suggestions with the obnoxious "git gud" attitude and "we deserve all the gold b/c we rock and ur a n00b" isn't going to get any more participants either (and in my opinion is a primary reason for our diminishing population).

 

Again, if you don't care about the amount of participation and just want a tournament that pits the best against the best, then don't change a thing. This will be a great event and it's nice to see members of the community putting it on. I just feel that if an effort were made to encourage participation from the other 99% of the community, it'd be that much better (and the top players can still walk away with the lion's share of the prizes, which they deserve...because they're the top players). 



CrayoIaCrayon #26 Posted 02 August 2015 - 06:15 AM

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Eh I hate participation awards.  Competing should be incentive enough. What do you have to lose?  It's like a player that disconnects at the start of a match they think they can't win.  By playing you have a chance to at least do some damage and get some points even if u get your [edited]kicked and you never know you might ace out too.  I hate losing just like the next guy but I love competition.  Losing is a part of it.  I think the get better attitude is a good one to have.  Players in this game are just like the rest of the world. They feel like they're great and blame their poor skills on their team, unbalanced teams, hacking, etc. Basically anything other than their poor skills.  No battle in this game is completely unwinnable, thus if I lose then I screwed up and i should learn from those to get better.  So put together teams and compete. You might surprise yourself and others and if you don't then what have you lost?

Undefeated 1st place, Clantastrophy tournament

Air Raid 6  3rd place,  Air Raid 7  2nd place, Air Raid 8 1st place


dityboycom #27 Posted 03 August 2015 - 02:37 PM

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Wow, another topsight; where you come from bro?

 

Anyway, this tournament does not cater to the top 1% as there will be about 5- 6 teams that have a chance at the #1-2 spot. The tournament is double elimination meaning everyone has two chances, and just like every other wargaming tournament, you don't get paid for participating. Go check out tanks tournaments, they cater to the top % of the game as well, the top 50% of the tournament get 300 gold, top 25% get 500g, and then the top 16 are rewarded with large sums of gold.

 

We don't have that many people to even register for this tournament, so using your analogy the top 1% of 500 players would be 5 players, meaning only 1 team is showing up with a competitive team and the rest are just cannon fodder. If that's what your suggesting, then sorry for your loss, it is no ones fault but your own for not putting in the time to be able to play the game with a seeming resemblance to competence. WS, Aces, Dracs, VSW, Jacs, VLCN, are a fewclans who immediately come to mind on who will be competitive in this tournament, of which I believe most of them are putting in more than one team.

 

That my friend would be a tournament catering to the top 50% of the population, not 1%.



macfloam #28 Posted 03 August 2015 - 07:06 PM

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I guess what you're saying is that topsight is also good at math? 

 

There are approximately 2,700 players who have been active on the North American servers in the past 4 weeks. You can verify this number by going to the Hall of Fame, selecting 4 weeks, and taking your position and dividing it by (1 - percent of players you rank higher than). This tournament is going to pay the top 4 teams. That's 32 players (1.2%). There will probably be twice that number with a legitimate shot at placing in the top 4. And let's assume that as many as 12 teams participate (and I doubt that 12 teams will). That's 96 players out of a player base of 2,700, which is 3.5%.

 

If the format were more competitive (even if it just paid the top 50% like the other WG tournaments do), then you could get:

  • 3 teams from DRACS
  • 2 teams from WS (possibly 3)
  • 2 teams from ACES_ (possibly 3)
  • 2 teams from WHAWK
  • 3-4 teams from GW
  • 3 teams from SF
  • 2 teams from VULCN
  • 1 team from SE
  • 1 team from PIJAX
  • 2 teams from TFE
  • 1 team from IBF
  • 2-3 teams from JACS
  • 1 team from BFS
  • 2 teams from FALO
  • 1 team from VSW
  • 1 team from ES
  • 2 teams from FACK
  • 1 team from SOFW
  • 1-2 teams from TIS
  • 1-2 teams from WORD

 

That's 34-38 teams. Currently, 25+ of those teams have shown no interest in this competition, and I believe that is because they know they have absolutely no chance.



dityboycom #29 Posted 03 August 2015 - 07:30 PM

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View Postmacfloam, on 03 August 2015 - 03:06 PM, said:

I guess what you're saying is that topsight is also good at math? 

 

There are approximately 2,700 players who have been active on the North American servers in the past 4 weeks. You can verify this number by going to the Hall of Fame, selecting 4 weeks, and taking your position and dividing it by (1 - percent of players you rank higher than). This tournament is going to pay the top 4 teams. That's 32 players (1.2%). There will probably be twice that number with a legitimate shot at placing in the top 4. And let's assume that as many as 12 teams participate (and I doubt that 12 teams will). That's 96 players out of a player base of 2,700, which is 3.5%.

 

If the format were more competitive (even if it just paid the top 50% like the other WG tournaments do), then you could get:

  • 3 teams from DRACS
  • 2 teams from WS (possibly 3)
  • 2 teams from ACES_ (possibly 3)
  • 2 teams from WHAWK
  • 3-4 teams from GW
  • 3 teams from SF
  • 2 teams from VULCN
  • 1 team from SE
  • 1 team from PIJAX
  • 2 teams from TFE
  • 1 team from IBF
  • 2-3 teams from JACS
  • 1 team from BFS
  • 2 teams from FALO
  • 1 team from VSW
  • 1 team from ES
  • 2 teams from FACK
  • 1 team from SOFW
  • 1-2 teams from TIS
  • 1-2 teams from WORD

 

That's 34-38 teams. Currently, 25+ of those teams have shown no interest in this competition, and I believe that is because they know they have absolutely no chance.

 

Just because everyone does not get paid to participate does not mean nobody has a chance. It is a tournament, not a team building event promoting happiness and wealth to all participants. Like Topsight, you came in here complaining that it gives the competitive advantage to teams that are more competitive than the ones that are not. This can be said about most tournaments in the worlds history, that in itself is the point. Why would you want an event where everyone got together and had to balance their teams with people they did not know in order to make it more "fair."

 

I would say "I am sorry," but I am not, you just entirely missed the point of the event. Everyone is invited, few will win. It is called competition, in every competition many teams sign up knowing they won't rank in the top or even have a chance at winning but they join because competition is fun, and even when you lose there is something to be learned. If you want something that caters to "fair" and to your "feelings" that apparently you and your comrade are having a hard time managing so you want others to manage them for you, create your own event where you exclude competitive players, and isolate friendships in the name of "fair play." If you don't want to, then accept that in a PVP game there will be competitive events tailored to include everyone but only reward those who are well prepared.

 

The mere act of having to bring a plane from every nation is a huge balancing factor in this game as the majority of your "Good" or "OP" players you're upset are allowed to stack a team, have very little to no practice in nations other than the primary ones which lead them to their success.



MARS_REVENANT #30 Posted 03 August 2015 - 07:50 PM

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I like turtles.

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dityboycom #31 Posted 03 August 2015 - 07:55 PM

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View PostTHEMARCO1979, on 03 August 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:

I like turtles.

 

So turtle man, what's the minimum required teams for the event to continue to be sponsored? In situation in which people really refuse to participate because someone better than them is participating.

MARS_REVENANT #32 Posted 03 August 2015 - 08:05 PM

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View Postdityboycom, on 03 August 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:

 

So turtle man, what's the minimum required teams for the event to continue to be sponsored? In situation in which people really refuse to participate because someone better than them is participating.

 

I dont think we discussed it. Prior to advertising, Killerpopcorn was in touch with several clans and there was a lot of interest. As well there was a lot of interest for the tournaments that gunlion was going to put on. We were expecting to fill 16 brackets easily and hoping for a range of 32 teams.

 

Killerpopcorn and I are both on vacation, so I'm on my cell right now, there are a few more teams registered, we just havent posted yet. In our example to WG we showed them a 16 team tournament, and they approved the prizing, we didnt consider at all a lack of interest.

 

TBH I thought we would get a full tournament even without any prizes, I thought people just wanted something to do other than the pub matches. Ill be looking forward to anything even if just a few teams show up.

 

Also keep in mind this is the first tournament in a long while, so expecting everyone to come back for it isnt realistic either. Hopefully this will be a start to really big things.

 


Edited by THEMARCO1979, 03 August 2015 - 08:10 PM.

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dityboycom #33 Posted 03 August 2015 - 08:09 PM

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View PostTHEMARCO1979, on 03 August 2015 - 04:05 PM, said:

 

I dont think we discussed it. Prior to advertising, Killerpopcorn was in touch with several clans and there was a lot of interest. As well there was a lot of interest for the tournaments that gunlion was going to put on. We were expecting to fill 16 brackets easily and hoping for a range of 32 teams.

 

Killerpopcorn and I are both on vacation, so I'm on my cell right now, there are a few more teams registered, we just havent posted yet. In our example to WG we showed them a 16 team tournament, and they approved the prizing, we didnt consider at all a lack of interest.

 

TBH I thought we would get a full tournament even without any prizes, I thought people just wanted something to do other than the pub matches. Ill be looking forward to anything even if just a few teams show up.

 

 

I doubt we'd see much more than 16 teams even if the whole forum was interested.  128 players is about all that probably even reads these forums. That's good to hear more players are signed up and we will be going underway with or without prizes.

MARS_REVENANT #34 Posted 03 August 2015 - 08:12 PM

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I didnt say we would go ahead with or without prizes, I would still like to, and I would still help run it if that happened, but id asume some teams would drop out. But maybe a bunch more would sign up. Who knows.

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macfloam #35 Posted 03 August 2015 - 08:19 PM

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View Postdityboycom, on 03 August 2015 - 07:30 PM, said:

 

Just because everyone does not get paid to participate does not mean nobody has a chance. It is a tournament, not a team building event promoting happiness and wealth to all participants. Like Topsight, you came in here complaining that it gives the competitive advantage to teams that are more competitive than the ones that are not. This can be said about most tournaments in the worlds history, that in itself is the point. Why would you want an event where everyone got together and had to balance their teams with people they did not know in order to make it more "fair."

 

I would say "I am sorry," but I am not, you just entirely missed the point of the event. Everyone is invited, few will win. It is called competition, in every competition many teams sign up knowing they won't rank in the top or even have a chance at winning but they join because competition is fun, and even when you lose there is something to be learned. If you want something that caters to "fair" and to your "feelings" that apparently you and your comrade are having a hard time managing so you want others to manage them for you, create your own event where you exclude competitive players, and isolate friendships in the name of "fair play." If you don't want to, then accept that in a PVP game there will be competitive events tailored to include everyone but only reward those who are well prepared.

 

The mere act of having to bring a plane from every nation is a huge balancing factor in this game as the majority of your "Good" or "OP" players you're upset are allowed to stack a team, have very little to no practice in nations other than the primary ones which lead them to their success.

Actually, YOU missed the point. People expressed concerns over the lack of participation. I gave reasons for why this is and suggestions on how they could modify the event to make it more attractive to the rest of the community. I've stated that I'm not a fan of any handi-capping systems, but I mentioned them as an option if increased participation was the objective. Personally, I would go with a deeper payout structure. The top 4 teams are going to rank top 4 regardless of how many teams participate, so the only question is whether you want an 8-team tournament or a 32-team tournament.

 

If the objective is simply to pad the gold accounts of the top 4 teams, then don't change a thing. However, if this tournament is truly meant to be a community event, then something needs to be done to encourage the rest of the community to participate. Either way, the top teams still get adequately rewarded for winning the event, but if everyone gets something to compete for, you'll get more participation.

 

I'm not upset, nor am I whining. I'm simply providing suggestions on how the event organizers can increase participation in their event. 

View PostTHEMARCO1979, on 03 August 2015 - 08:12 PM, said:

I didnt say we would go ahead with or without prizes, I would still like to, and I would still help run it if that happened, but id asume some teams would drop out. But maybe a bunch more would sign up. Who knows.

That would certainly be interesting. Undoubtedly, it'd be the same people on here saying, "you should sign up for the sake of competition whether you have a chance of winning or not" that will drop out. 



dityboycom #36 Posted 03 August 2015 - 09:16 PM

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View Postmacfloam, on 03 August 2015 - 04:19 PM, said:

Actually, YOU missed the point. People expressed concerns over the lack of participation. I gave reasons for why this is and suggestions on how they could modify the event to make it more attractive to the rest of the community. I've stated that I'm not a fan of any handi-capping systems, but I mentioned them as an option if increased participation was the objective. Personally, I would go with a deeper payout structure. The top 4 teams are going to rank top 4 regardless of how many teams participate, so the only question is whether you want an 8-team tournament or a 32-team tournament.

 

If the objective is simply to pad the gold accounts of the top 4 teams, then don't change a thing. However, if this tournament is truly meant to be a community event, then something needs to be done to encourage the rest of the community to participate. Either way, the top teams still get adequately rewarded for winning the event, but if everyone gets something to compete for, you'll get more participation.

 

I'm not upset, nor am I whining. I'm simply providing suggestions on how the event organizers can increase participation in their event. 

That would certainly be interesting. Undoubtedly, it'd be the same people on here saying, "you should sign up for the sake of competition whether you have a chance of winning or not" that will drop out. 

 

 Sure, except this tournament thread wasn't opened up as an open forum to get feedback on how to improve it. That will be a thread for after the tournament takes place, this tournament took a month to organize, and get WG official support. They addressed earlier in the other thread on what the purpose was and why it is structured the way it is, if you do not agree then that is fine, those opinions should be held until after it has taken place instead of attempting to plant a virus in the event itself filling others ears with "This is unfair and we all know who is getting paid, there is no point."

 

I do not agree with your points, as obviously the tournament creators who spent the month talking to Ghostprime about this event to organize it for optimal participation don't either since they didn't lay it out in the format you described, I am sure it was brought to the table. With limited resources, it doesn't make sense to spread payouts so thin. That's good though that you have an opinion, very happy to hear it. Tournament participation is probably more so limited because the majority of the playerbase in this game don't come to the forums, and those that do are already putting teams together, unless they share your opinion that we all know who's going to win.

 

If you're saying I'm one of the guys that would be dropping out, I would drop out if I wasn't committed as this most recent update makes the game nearly unplayable. Unfortunately they made some solid rules about dropping teams and switching players so that would be unfair to my teammates.



Killerpopcorn #37 Posted 04 August 2015 - 02:19 AM

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Guy as far as prizing goes it is being worked on by the WG staff and has been since we released sign ups. I know a lot of you have posted ideas for amounts and they are all suggestions that I brought up whenever I created posted this thread. Unfortunately, I cant give you a exact amount that's approved yet so we were hoping people would still want to play just to break the monotony.  What I have is what we used in the last Air Raids as a starting point.

Air Raid #1: 4th place/Air Raid #2 3rd Place/Air Raid #4 2nd Place/Air Raid #5 9th place

Crossover #1 1st Place/ Launch Event 1st place


Killerpopcorn #38 Posted 04 August 2015 - 03:26 PM

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Those that have signed up and not responded to the pm's please check the first post to make sure you don't have any steps to complete(in Bold Blue).

Air Raid #1: 4th place/Air Raid #2 3rd Place/Air Raid #4 2nd Place/Air Raid #5 9th place

Crossover #1 1st Place/ Launch Event 1st place


CrayoIaCrayon #39 Posted 06 August 2015 - 01:45 PM

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Congrats Kpop.  Looks like everything is coming together nicely.  Already more teams signed up than I usually see players in queue lol

Undefeated 1st place, Clantastrophy tournament

Air Raid 6  3rd place,  Air Raid 7  2nd place, Air Raid 8 1st place


MARS_REVENANT #40 Posted 07 August 2015 - 02:37 AM

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10 teams registered so far, about 1 day left, lets fill up this tournament!!!!

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