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Pancake Needs Rebalancing


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ParanoiaXtreme_PRX #41 Posted 10 July 2015 - 11:10 AM

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just as i'm about to get mine.. funny

_Warchylde_ #42 Posted 10 July 2015 - 11:38 AM

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I dunno.....I've been flying mine a  lot lately, grinding my way through to the F2H. I kinda like it because it fits my personal flying style.

NO ONE flies a Pancake in Clan Wars.....weird huh? (Well, ACES did bring a few Pancakes on the last night of the event....did NOT go well for them at all).

 

So tell me....what would you nerf?

Speed?  It can't catch a 209A or a 262, nor can it get away from them.

Altitude?  It flies like a concrete truck above 3000 meters.

Hit points?  You think 600 is too strong?  Typical rugged American plane...nerf em all. (damned high-quality American craftsmanship)

Maneuverability?  Yes at mid to low altitude it's rather nimble for a heavy fighter, but in the end, it's still a heavy fighter, and gets owned by any semi-competent pilot in a LF.

Guns?  Ahhhh, here we go.  4x 20mm cannons with a high cyclic rate, centrally located for a narrow cone of fire.  Wait...a heavy fighter with excellent firepower?  What were they thinking??

 

Only thing OP about this plane is the rockets.


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EasternDragon_2014 #43 Posted 10 July 2015 - 12:08 PM

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Pancake is not OP by design, but it's for a fact OP in small matches especially in matches that create 1v1s. 

It has the potential to kill any T9/10 LF, at least fend them off. It's so easy to kill in matches that are a just a little populated, however with our MM, this thing fits perfectly into the "Very OP" range.

Solution: bigger matches or a specific pancake nerf on NA.

In this thread I can see a lot of people's ego showing again. But our skill is getting corrupted by poor game mechanics and meaningless matches, our win rates are inflated by unbalanced planes and large percentage of noobs. Please never be serious when you say how good you are, technical discussion is technical.


Edited by EasternDragon_2014, 10 July 2015 - 12:25 PM.


ParanoiaXtreme_PRX #44 Posted 10 July 2015 - 12:54 PM

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View PostJekyll_n_Hyde, on 10 July 2015 - 05:59 AM, said:

209 has a 52% w/r server wide. It is balanced.

 

JlNN - not sure what I got for that initial post with your stats... now it shows that you have an 85% w/r with 213 battles in the pancake. You are ranked #4 on the server in this plane (noob :P).

 

 

again, WR doesn't decide anything unless you're in a 1 vs 1 battle, which you are not



oldiowaguy #45 Posted 10 July 2015 - 12:56 PM

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It is the quickest and best option for killing GA. If there weren't so many GA flying upper tiers you probably wouldn't see as many. Oh yeah, and that whole heavy mission thing!

The biggest thing is knowing how to kill them. Never, never, never go head on with one! I won't even in a 262! Nothing I like more than seeing a big fat Pancake climbing after a flightmate. Easy pickens for a light fighter!

We have alot of really good pilots on our server and that does mess with win percentages for some planes. If WG strapped wings to a dog turd and many of the guys that posted previously in this thread decided to fly it there would be a thread "Nerf the dog turd, it's OP!!!!"


                                                                    

 


ParanoiaXtreme_PRX #46 Posted 10 July 2015 - 01:02 PM

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View Post_Warchylde_, on 10 July 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

I dunno.....I've been flying mine a  lot lately, grinding my way through to the F2H. I kinda like it because it fits my personal flying style.

NO ONE flies a Pancake in Clan Wars.....weird huh? (Well, ACES did bring a few Pancakes on the last night of the event....did NOT go well for them at all).

 

So tell me....what would you nerf?

Speed?  It can't catch a 209A or a 262, nor can it get away from them.

Altitude?  It flies like a concrete truck above 3000 meters.

Hit points?  You think 600 is too strong?  Typical rugged American plane...nerf em all. (damned high-quality American craftsmanship)

Maneuverability?  Yes at mid to low altitude it's rather nimble for a heavy fighter, but in the end, it's still a heavy fighter, and gets owned by any semi-competent pilot in a LF.

Guns?  Ahhhh, here we go.  4x 20mm cannons with a high cyclic rate, centrally located for a narrow cone of fire.  Wait...a heavy fighter with excellent firepower?  What were they thinking??

 

Only thing OP about this plane is the rockets.

and rockets are hard to use well for most people



ViolentAngel #47 Posted 10 July 2015 - 01:29 PM

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View PostEasternDragon_2014, on 10 July 2015 - 06:08 AM, said:

Pancake is not OP by design, but it's for a fact OP in small matches especially in matches that create 1v1s. 

It has the potential to kill any T9/10 LF, at least fend them off. It's so easy to kill in matches that are a just a little populated, however with our MM, this thing fits perfectly into the "Very OP" range.

Solution: bigger matches or a specific pancake nerf on NA.

In this thread I can see a lot of people's ego showing again. But our skill is getting corrupted by poor game mechanics and meaningless matches, our win rates are inflated by unbalanced planes and large percentage of noobs. Please never be serious when you say how good you are, technical discussion is technical.

 

It's not just the NA server.

 

Top T8 planes on EU:

1. J8M - 58% w/r - 10k battles

2. XF5U - 56% w/r - 93k battles

3. 109TL - 53% w/r  - 7k battles

 

Top T8 planes on RU

1. J8M - 57% - 35k battles

2. XF5U - 54% w/r - 343k battles

3. 109TL - 53% - 36k battles

 

I agree about the altitude limitations to some extent - but it appears to be able to climb very well, very fast. I also agree that if you manage to line up a shot on the top or belly it causes it much pain.

So far in my experience flying against it, I would say that when it wants to kill something, it will unless a friendly can intercept.

Point guns at target (great guns), laugh as they try to evade (great roll rate), watch them go down in a smoking wreck, move on to next target.

Defeat a pancake by not getting targeted by it?

 

[Edit: clarified these are top T8 planes]


Edited by Jekyll_n_Hyde, 10 July 2015 - 01:31 PM.

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WafflesOfWrath #48 Posted 10 July 2015 - 02:00 PM

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View PostGang_Starr, on 10 July 2015 - 05:41 AM, said:

 

Basically. Waffles has played the Pancake almost for 1000 battles and he has a 82% W/R.

 

Breakfast is the most important meal of the day!

Srsly though, there is NOTHING a pancake can do against a P51H or Me209, you're outturned by the TL with no ordnance and you can be BnZed by J8ms. The fact that you are utterly countered by multiple planes at the tier means it's balanced. It's just a noob stomper plane.

Olaffe #49 Posted 10 July 2015 - 02:07 PM

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View PostWafflesOfWrath, on 10 July 2015 - 06:00 AM, said:

 

Breakfast is the most important meal of the day!

Srsly though, there is NOTHING a pancake can do against a P51H or Me209, you're outturned by the TL with no ordnance and you can be BnZed by J8ms. The fact that you are utterly countered by multiple planes at the tier means it's balanced. It's just a noob stomper plane.

 

You all are right.  It is a noob stomper plane and it is vulnerable.  If you are flighted or a very good, you will do real well.  Jek, the stats are so unreliable, due to lots of factors.  Easy on my buddy Jek guys, he is a good man and good player.  He sounds frustrated and I can relate. :honoring:  Happy Friday!!!

Edited by RealWildBill, 10 July 2015 - 02:17 PM.


losttwo #50 Posted 10 July 2015 - 02:10 PM

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View PostJekyll_n_Hyde, on 10 July 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

 

It's not just the NA server.

 

Top T8 planes on EU:

1. J8M - 58% w/r - 10k battles

2. XF5U - 56% w/r - 93k battles

3. 109TL - 53% w/r  - 7k battles

 

Top T8 planes on RU

1. J8M - 57% - 35k battles

2. XF5U - 54% w/r - 343k battles

3. 109TL - 53% - 36k battles

 

I agree about the altitude limitations to some extent - but it appears to be able to climb very well, very fast. I also agree that if you manage to line up a shot on the top or belly it causes it much pain.

So far in my experience flying against it, I would say that when it wants to kill something, it will unless a friendly can intercept.

Point guns at target (great guns), laugh as they try to evade (great roll rate), watch them go down in a smoking wreck, move on to next target.

Defeat a pancake by not getting targeted by it?

 

[Edit: clarified these are top T8 planes]

 

You validated my point.

Your experience is stated above. Because you do not know how to defeat it means it is OP...:facepalm:

 

Please nerf all the planes I can not beat so I can be a better pilot....please WG, pretty please...with sugar on top.



Weapon_of_Proliferation #51 Posted 10 July 2015 - 02:45 PM

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The pancake is reminds me of an April fools joke that WG forgot to remove after April 1st.

EasternDragon_2014 #52 Posted 10 July 2015 - 02:51 PM

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View PostWafflesOfWrath, on 10 July 2015 - 09:00 AM, said:

 

Breakfast is the most important meal of the day!

Srsly though, there is NOTHING a pancake can do against a P51H or Me209, you're outturned by the TL with no ordnance and you can be BnZed by J8ms. The fact that you are utterly countered by multiple planes at the tier means it's balanced. It's just a noob stomper plane.

 

Oh really? It has a chance in out turning a yak 15. Right you don't need to work on turning techniques, 1010 velocity ghost rounds kill the enemy right away in the first head on.

dityboycom #53 Posted 10 July 2015 - 03:14 PM

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Is this a troll thread? I can't tell to be completely honest.

 

Pancakes are by no means OP and suffer from a long list of weaknesses, if you don't know them yet, that doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed.



Wesrin #54 Posted 10 July 2015 - 03:35 PM

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View PostJekyll_n_Hyde, on 09 July 2015 - 10:43 PM, said:

Too stronk. Nuff said.

 

You complain about how OP you think the Pancake is, yet not once do you give a comprehensive or meaningful list of issues you have with it. All you spew is "too stronk" and "omg one of the highest average winrates!!1!!!ONE11!" Then you go on to personally attack people who don't agree with you. Classy. I honestly wouldn't expect an ACES member to go on a tantrum like this, but ... guess the Hyde got flapjacked and didn't like it. Chances are you're getting pounced and not paying attention; it happens to the best of us.

 

The Pancake is strong, no doubt. Moreso when flown by a good pilot, or in a flight. But like dity and many others who have extensive experience with the aircraft (whereas you have zero battles in it), it has glaring weaknesses -- high performance thoroughbred light fighters, such as the 51H and the 209A, will eat Pancakes for breakfast.


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SOJO #55 Posted 10 July 2015 - 03:56 PM

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View PostJekyll_n_Hyde, on 09 July 2015 - 10:43 PM, said:

Too stronk. Nuff said.

 

Hi,

 

Using the bathroom is tough for me, can someone wipe my A** for me; Please nerf the toilet handle and replace it with a remote control; the strength it takes me to actually push the handle is strenuous and causes me anxiety.

 

Thanks


Edited by Sojo, 10 July 2015 - 03:56 PM.

MALICE_AT_BIRTH.png

 

 

                                                    


losttwo #56 Posted 10 July 2015 - 03:59 PM

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View PostSojo, on 10 July 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

 

Hi,

 

Using the bathroom is tough for me, can someone wipe my A** for me; Please nerf the toilet handle and replace it with a remote control; the strength it takes me to actually push the handle is strenuous and causes me anxiety.

 

Thanks

 

this deserves a plus 10 and they call me condescending......then again I have learned from one of the best.

broslicer #57 Posted 10 July 2015 - 04:05 PM

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View PostSojo, on 10 July 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

 

Hi,

 

Using the bathroom is tough for me, can someone wipe my A** for me; Please nerf the toilet handle and replace it with a remote control; the strength it takes me to actually push the handle is strenuous and causes me anxiety.

 

Thanks

already been done, you are behind the times...

 

 

Edit: so you don't think I go looking for this stuff... 

I was watching something on Bloomberg a few years ago and they had a segment showing off new technology, this was being done in Europe public restrooms, so did a quick google search and this is what I found^.


Edited by broslicer, 10 July 2015 - 04:07 PM.

 

                                     

 


SOJO #58 Posted 10 July 2015 - 04:16 PM

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I'll leave this be....


Edited by Sojo, 10 July 2015 - 04:20 PM.

MALICE_AT_BIRTH.png

 

 

                                                    


broslicer #59 Posted 10 July 2015 - 04:21 PM

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View PostSojo, on 10 July 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

 

I'll leave this be....

 

:trollface:hehe lol

 

                                     

 


FastAttack #60 Posted 10 July 2015 - 04:41 PM

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if I actually went in and did a statistical analysis of 

Pancake to 209 , etc it would give a headache to everyone

so add this to the variables of thought

 

1) Pancake was introduced after the 209

2) Pancake was considered the worst plane during  its release and barely anyone played it.

3) After the rebalance back in ~1.6 , the airplane started shining , therefore more players played it.

4) 209 has seen more rebalances since it was a release airplane.. It went from awful to being a good plane. Thus the winrate of this aircraft was abysmal. 

5) If I remember it right the 209 overall stats are on a climb. Not a freefall.

 

The pancake is balanced if you are playing on a 15 vs 15 .. on a 3 v 3 or 1 v 1 with the maple syrup dispenser it can be seen as OP , but thats it , after it its a dog of an airplane , it can't turn its climb rate is ok and thats it , if you can properly maintain energy with it then yes it can dominate. But put this aircraft against a 209 with a pilot that has some skill the pancake is in reality a sitting duck. 

 

All of you that keep saying nerf this and nerf that , are essentially people that do not understand the dynamic of the aircraft.  All the complaints about nerfing have created the sucky [edited]planes we have today. I would gladly go back to 1.0 to 1.4 aircraft models. They made more sense than now.

 

So here is what I've seen so far

 

1) Complain that aircraft to strong .. Nerf.. then cry about the nerf

2) Complain about the flights flying OP aircraft .. Nerf the plane again

3) Nerf the cannons they are to strong..  then people complain that canons suck.

4) Machine guns are now to strong , nerf the machine guns then up the canons and people continue to complain

5) Complain about flights being OP , nerf the flights get them down to 2..

6) Now complain that the airplanes are to strong ... 

 

so the whole thing is a vicious cycle. Nerf's shouldn't be done , but a rebalance of the whole game needs to take place , if changes are being done. We got scope creep here and it won't stop. People will continue to complain away , simply because they do not understand the game in the first place.

 


Edited by FastAttack, 10 July 2015 - 04:45 PM.





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