Jump to content


Pancake Needs Rebalancing


  • Please log in to reply
72 replies to this topic

ViolentAngel #21 Posted 10 July 2015 - 05:45 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 0 battles
  • 1,809
  • Member since:
    12-03-2013

So, why do they play it so much?   It's not because it's a bad or even average plane.  It's because its very good. It is the top plane in its tier, wrecks everything in tiers 6&7, and can hang with tier 9s.

 

58K battles on the server in the Pancake - I seriously doubt that even the top 10 players would be able to make a 1% difference.  The characteristics of this plane need to be looked at for adjustment.


"Fiery the Angels rose, & as they rose deep thunder roll’d"

-- William Blake


Gang_Starr #22 Posted 10 July 2015 - 05:50 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 2 battles
  • 3,845
  • [BAGG] BAGG
  • Member since:
    04-09-2014

View PostJekyll_n_Hyde, on 10 July 2015 - 01:45 AM, said:

So, why do they play it so much?   It's not because it's a bad or even average plane.  It's because its very good. 58K battles on the server in the Pancake

 

Like I already said, Noob like to go head-on, this is a nice plane to do that in. If there is any plane you should be whining about it's the 209A, but oh well.

Tenks


ViolentAngel #23 Posted 10 July 2015 - 05:59 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 0 battles
  • 1,809
  • Member since:
    12-03-2013

209 has a 52% w/r server wide. It is balanced.

 

JlNN - not sure what I got for that initial post with your stats... now it shows that you have an 85% w/r with 213 battles in the pancake. You are ranked #4 on the server in this plane (noob :P).

 

 


"Fiery the Angels rose, & as they rose deep thunder roll’d"

-- William Blake


Gang_Starr #24 Posted 10 July 2015 - 06:03 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 2 battles
  • 3,845
  • [BAGG] BAGG
  • Member since:
    04-09-2014

View PostJekyll_n_Hyde, on 10 July 2015 - 01:59 AM, said:

209 has a 52% w/r server wide. It is balanced.

 

 

Which part of "Overall server stats don't matter" didn't you get?

Tenks


Gang_Starr #25 Posted 10 July 2015 - 06:05 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 2 battles
  • 3,845
  • [BAGG] BAGG
  • Member since:
    04-09-2014
I guess the Attacker is OP too then with a 57% win-rate? and the Starfire with a 55% winrate? Lol please.

Tenks


ViolentAngel #26 Posted 10 July 2015 - 06:09 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 0 battles
  • 1,809
  • Member since:
    12-03-2013

Yes, the Attacker is a bit OP, as is the I-250 (which, IIRC, got a recent nerf... need to dig up the release notes).

 

The server stats don't lie, stop being a pompous [edited].


"Fiery the Angels rose, & as they rose deep thunder roll’d"

-- William Blake


Gang_Starr #27 Posted 10 July 2015 - 06:15 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 2 battles
  • 3,845
  • [BAGG] BAGG
  • Member since:
    04-09-2014

View PostJekyll_n_Hyde, on 10 July 2015 - 02:09 AM, said:

Yes, the Attacker is a bit OP, as is the I-250 (which, IIRC, got a recent nerf... need to dig up the release notes).

 

The server stats don't lie, stop being a pompous [edited].

 

 

LOL you do realize the only reason the I-250 has a good server win-rate is because all the good players bought it when we got the "On-track to the Mig-15" mission? Do you even own a I-250? No, you do not. Most people have a great trouble playing that plane and almost every good player hates it.


Tenks


ViolentAngel #28 Posted 10 July 2015 - 06:18 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 0 battles
  • 1,809
  • Member since:
    12-03-2013

Oh, I see, so I am not in the "cool kid's club"

 

Gimme a break, you get more self absorbed and vain with every post you make. If there's a joke here, it's your ego, Gang.


"Fiery the Angels rose, & as they rose deep thunder roll’d"

-- William Blake


Gang_Starr #29 Posted 10 July 2015 - 06:21 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 2 battles
  • 3,845
  • [BAGG] BAGG
  • Member since:
    04-09-2014

View PostJekyll_n_Hyde, on 10 July 2015 - 02:09 AM, said:

stop being a pompous [edited].

 

I don't know what happened to you man, you've been extremely illogical and full of hatred lately for some reason.

 

 

I bought my Pancake over 2 months ago and only have 64 matches in it. Why? because I don't enjoy flying it much. So your argument that "I have a 77% W/R in it that's why I don't want it to be changed" is extremely flawed.

 

I'm not being pompous, you're being stubborn and illogical


Tenks


Gang_Starr #30 Posted 10 July 2015 - 06:25 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 2 battles
  • 3,845
  • [BAGG] BAGG
  • Member since:
    04-09-2014

View PostJekyll_n_Hyde, on 10 July 2015 - 02:18 AM, said:

 

Gimme a break, you get more self absorbed and vain with every post you make. If there's a joke here, it's your ego, Gang.

 

You're the one that brought up my stats in post #9, not me.

Tenks


ViolentAngel #31 Posted 10 July 2015 - 06:28 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 0 battles
  • 1,809
  • Member since:
    12-03-2013

Yes, you are being a self-absorbed, pompous [edited].  I am looking at data, and you are making speculative assumptions based on what you think "all the good players" are doing, of which, you consider yourself to be one of. Sure, you're good, but that does not mean you, or any top player, has infallible knowledge of what is going on in the game. I'm a descent player with way above average win rates in certain planes, but I don't consider them to be OP. Look at the data across the server, not just at your own stats and your own experiences. Some planes are way above average, some are way below average. These are the planes that need to be looked at for balance considerations. 


"Fiery the Angels rose, & as they rose deep thunder roll’d"

-- William Blake


Gang_Starr #32 Posted 10 July 2015 - 06:35 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 2 battles
  • 3,845
  • [BAGG] BAGG
  • Member since:
    04-09-2014

That's the problem here, you're "looking at data" and that's it. You're not actually thinking of WHY that data is the way it is. According to your intricate data analysis the Pancake is "OP" and the 209A is "balanced" (LOL).

 

Reading data is different from understanding data.


Tenks


Gang_Starr #33 Posted 10 July 2015 - 06:36 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 2 battles
  • 3,845
  • [BAGG] BAGG
  • Member since:
    04-09-2014

View PostJekyll_n_Hyde, on 10 July 2015 - 02:28 AM, said:

Yes, you are being a self-absorbed, pompous [edited].

 

I'm not going to say what you're being because I still have some respect left for the former J_n_H.

Tenks


ViolentAngel #34 Posted 10 July 2015 - 06:41 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 0 battles
  • 1,809
  • Member since:
    12-03-2013

View PostGang_Starr, on 10 July 2015 - 12:21 AM, said:

 

I don't know what happened to you man, you've been extremely illogical and full of hatred lately for some reason.

 

I know exactly what happened to you. You became a L33t, and acquired all the condescending, nose-in-the-air, everyone else is a stupid noob attitude that goes with it. Enjoy your status.

 

View PostGang_Starr, on 10 July 2015 - 12:35 AM, said:

That's the problem here, you're "looking at data" and that's it. You're not actually thinking of WHY that data is the way it is. According to your intricate data analysis the Pancake is "OP" and the 209A is "balanced" (LOL).

 

Reading data is different from understanding data.

 

Lol, seriously?  You want to claim you understand the data?  58 THOUSAND matches.  If the top 50 players on the server played 1000 battles in this plane, that would 50 thousand.  The top 25 would need to play 2000, the top 10 would need to play 5000 battles in this plane. It's a clear fact that the avg. win rate in this plane is not because all the best players are playing it.  Yes, boy, understanding the data IS different.

 

Meanwhile, if anyone would like to have a serious discussion about why the Pancake does not need to be considered for rebalancing, I'm listening.


"Fiery the Angels rose, & as they rose deep thunder roll’d"

-- William Blake


GiN_nTonic #35 Posted 10 July 2015 - 06:45 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 231 battles
  • 3,874
  • [-WS-] -WS-
  • Member since:
    10-13-2013

I played many games flighted with Waffles in my Pancake - and if you know how to use it, its a great plane.  We could also kill the masses of IL's flooding the game with ease.  

 

Other planes are as good if not better.  Newbs and I play the 109 TL a lot too and I think our win rates are in the mid 90's.


Edited by JlNN, 10 July 2015 - 06:46 AM.


Gang_Starr #36 Posted 10 July 2015 - 06:59 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 2 battles
  • 3,845
  • [BAGG] BAGG
  • Member since:
    04-09-2014

View PostJekyll_n_Hyde, on 10 July 2015 - 02:41 AM, said:

 

Meanwhile, if anyone would like to have a serious discussion about why the Pancake does not need to be considered for rebalancing, I'm listening.

 

Baddies can't dodge a pancake head-on and it kills them. That's why the server win-rate is what it is. It's not a case of a plane being OP, it's a case of the average player not knowing how to dodge a pancake on the first pass.

 

View PostJekyll_n_Hyde, on 10 July 2015 - 02:41 AM, said:

You became a L33t, and acquired all the condescending, nose-in-the-air, everyone else is a stupid noob attitude that goes with it.

 

Not at all. I am always ready to help with advice/tactics and I would never insult a player directly and accuse him personally of being a terrible noob. I am also always available to flight up if any new player needs help in-game.

 

Your problem with me is that I generally speak the truth on the forums without sugar-coating it. I know how it is these days, if you speak the truth you're considered an a-hole. For me to say "the average WoWp player is terrible" is not false, and it's not being elitist, it's being realistic. That being said I am always there to help those players get better. I'm not claiming to be the most amazing player here, I just understand the game better than most, and I would never directly insult a player for being a baddie.


Tenks


ViolentAngel #37 Posted 10 July 2015 - 07:13 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 0 battles
  • 1,809
  • Member since:
    12-03-2013

It would go a VERY long way for you guys to explain what the Pancake's supposed weaknesses are other than being flown by a "baddie".  Make your case, don't just say it's so. I provided evidence that this plane's w/b is way above norm.  You claim it is fine the way it is.  So, please, for the rest uv uz dunzes, tell us why it is a balanced plane.

 

Note that the Bf 110C6 was also one of those planes that great players could eat noobs for breakfast, lunch, and dinner in all day long.  Even I had an above 80% w/r in that thing until it was "fixed" for balance.


"Fiery the Angels rose, & as they rose deep thunder roll’d"

-- William Blake


CrayolaCrayon #38 Posted 10 July 2015 - 07:51 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 0 battles
  • 1,684
  • [DRACS] DRACS
  • Member since:
    10-20-2012
Just because you have trouble against certain planes doesn't mean other people do.

losttwo #39 Posted 10 July 2015 - 10:38 AM

    which way do we go?

  • Community Ace
  • 5412 battles
  • 13,990
  • [S-S-G] S-S-G
  • Member since:
    05-15-2012

OK so we have another post of I can't defeat the pancake so rebalanced it please.

 

If a plane was too strong then wouldn't everyone be flying it for the Heavy mission ?

Sure it makes sense for people to fly the Hornet due to the 25% crew bonus plus accomplishing the mission but why not just fly the OP pancake.

That way you wreck stuff and finish the mission with a high win rate and survival rate.

 

A little bit of common sense goes a long way.

You can throw stats across this forum page all you want but an intelligent person understands the more battles a person flies the more the Win rate averages out.

JlNN for example has more battles than you therefore more losses due to team make up.

Me ( losttwo ) I have 94 battles and a 65% win rate but most of that is flighted

Lets look at the SURVIVAL % per battle of the plane. I have a 56% survival rating

If the plane was OP shouldn't the survival rating be much higher, at least higher than my win rate in the plane ?

 

Lets add a little bit more common sense:

The DO 17Z-7, Banshee and a few others are rated in the 50%+ win rate as well should they be rebalanced ?

These are heavy fighters, shouldn't they have a somewhat high % due to their nature and use in game ?

What about overall ? The I-220, P-51K and a few others have over 50%+ win rates should they be rebalanced too ?

 

How many of your battles in the Pancake have you actually WON and or survived rather than your team winning it ?

 

Show me more facts and figures based on a personal level that proves it is not your skill but the plane that makes it OP.

Player skill and knowledge on how to play the game plays a big part in a plane being OP.

As well as flighting up.



losttwo #40 Posted 10 July 2015 - 10:45 AM

    which way do we go?

  • Community Ace
  • 5412 battles
  • 13,990
  • [S-S-G] S-S-G
  • Member since:
    05-15-2012

View PostJekyll_n_Hyde, on 10 July 2015 - 01:41 AM, said:

I know exactly what happened to you. You became a L33t, and acquired all the condescending, nose-in-the-air, everyone else is a stupid noob attitude that goes with it. Enjoy your status.

 

 

I actually like this compliment...took me a long time to achieve this on line persona.


Edited by losttwo, 10 July 2015 - 10:46 AM.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users