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spittoon #61 Posted 23 June 2015 - 01:00 AM

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View Postlosttwo, on 22 June 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

Remember when you were young, you shone like the sun.
Shine on you crazy diamond.
Now there's a look in your eyes, like black holes in the sky.
Shine on you crazy diamond.
You were caught in the crossfire of clan wars and strongholds, blown on the steel breeze.
Come on you target for faraway hackers, come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine!

You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
Shine on you crazy diamond.
Threatened by shadows at night, and exposed in the light.
Shine on you crazy diamond.
Well you wore out your welcome with random precision, switched to WOWP.
Come on you raver, you seer of visions, come on you painter, you piper, you prisoner, and shine!

 

thank you!!!!!!    


 

 

honoring all those who fought, and especially all those who fell


gunlion #62 Posted 23 June 2015 - 01:00 AM

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View PostBubba_Zanetti, on 22 June 2015 - 01:07 PM, said:

Oh the irony!!!  It was fast paced 15v15..now it's mostly GA..like...IL-2 GA in a 3v3-5v5 way...looking forward to next month..thanks for dropping in gunlion!

 

It's an unfortunate consequence of the matchmaker. Part of my hope with the competitions and ladders coming up is that players will get a lot more chances to actually get into battles that are larger than 3v3 or 5v5. Obviously they won't be random battles, but I think it'll be a better outlet to try and actually recapture a bit of that feel. 

 

View PostRuklukk, on 22 June 2015 - 01:07 PM, said:

 

Perfectly stated, that was exactly what drew me to the game. It was as if I was helping a pilot fly an airplane which is beyond me but with him helping I can do it. Naming the pilots and providing a barracks I thought added to the concept perfectly (I would create a micro-transaction for crew skill options to make more money personally). It is totally arcade style (1943 instantly came to mind given the view and I pumped quarter after quarter in to that thing back in the day) until you start to dive without adjusting speed or flaps - then you get confused and start to learn (hopefully).

 

I have relatively few qualms with the mechanics of the flying in the game - why it was necessary to remove an MM that created 15v15 matches in under two minutes for an obviously ill-fitted solution honestly blows my mind as an IT program lead. It's not my company so I can only vote with my dollars and hours - I would love to read your response to what happened to the MM as it pertains to NA and if there is ever hope of reverting back to a truly functional one.

 

Regardless, I am glad to see you posting here more often the lack of communication during MM change made it impossible to keep the faith. Be safe.

 

Giving pilots names is one of those things that really helps people form an identity with their crew. I'd still eventually like to see us offer customization of names and portraits. 

 

1943 was an awesome game, btw. :)

 

The change to the matchmaker that was implemented in 1.6 just didn't work for our region, mainly due to population, but it was also an attempt to create a better balance in the game. If players recall back to prior to 1.6, there were a lot of calls for a more balanced matchmaker: balance in tiers, balance in plane types, balance in number of flights per side, etc. And there were some safeguards put into the matchmaker as well that protected players below a certain battlecount (sandbox protection), we had the karma system that was implemented because players were getting placed against planes two tiers higher than them. In theory, the matchmaker changes were what players asked for, but in practice it didn't work out well for us--it just made it really difficult to create a match based on all these "perfect elements" and led to people waiting way too long to get into battle. The current matchmaker we have now is the opposite: it has no rules other than "grab players, push into battle," but that also means that it's popping battles that have lower-end single digit teams. Neither one is a perfect solution; what we have now is better than what we had in 1.6, but it's also got its issues.

 

It's not off the table to still adjust the minimum players per team the matchmaker tries to create, but again, it'd increase the wait times. 

 



dityboycom #63 Posted 23 June 2015 - 01:02 AM

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I thought you already attempted to get them to increase it 3 months ago when we asked?

gunlion #64 Posted 23 June 2015 - 01:06 AM

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View Postdityboycom, on 22 June 2015 - 05:02 PM, said:

I thought you already attempted to get them to increase it 3 months ago when we asked?

 

I had asked earlier this year. Basically the answer was that: it'd increase wait times if we did it. I think the discussion got tabled there, because it was a question of, "Would players be willing to wait longer?" I don't necessarily have the answer; I'm sure most of you on the forums would say, "Yes!" but I don't know what that looks like for the larger playerbase that aren't represented on the forums. Maybe it's something worth trying, just to measure. I'll resurrect the discussion about it internally.

Dsembr_Rein #65 Posted 23 June 2015 - 01:30 AM

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Ok, when we say we don't want long wait times, there's a few factors you need to take into account. We don't want long wait times that produce a 1v1. We don't want long wait times that allow us to watch an entire episode of a show on Netflix in between battles. We don't want long wait times that let us count how many battles we were left out of. But we also don't want wait times so short that despite having enough players for a 12v12, we get four separate 3v3 battles. I'd say the larger playerbase wouldn't notice an extra 30 seconds to a minute and a half wait time if they were getting decent size matches in return. When the waves of players in queue are separated by a matter of seconds, waiting a minute or so to double the potential players for a battle seems like a no-brainer. And when people actually find themselves enjoying the game again they might just play a little more and keep that queue full enough to give other players the experience they remember from better days who then decide to play a little more than usual, and so on.

 

Now, being shot down by invisible bullets can have a nasty impact on how well players enjoy the game as well, but summer is here. The Devs are apparently feeling nostalgic for their school days and taking the summer off.  No patches until this fall.



losttwo #66 Posted 23 June 2015 - 01:42 AM

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View PostDsembr_Rein, on 22 June 2015 - 08:30 PM, said:

Ok, when we say we don't want long wait times, there's a few factors you need to take into account. We don't want long wait times that produce a 1v1. We don't want long wait times that allow us to watch an entire episode of a show on Netflix in between battles. We don't want long wait times that let us count how many battles we were left out of. But we also don't want wait times so short that despite having enough players for a 12v12, we get four separate 3v3 battles. I'd say the larger playerbase wouldn't notice an extra 30 seconds to a minute and a half wait time if they were getting decent size matches in return. When the waves of players in queue are separated by a matter of seconds, waiting a minute or so to double the potential players for a battle seems like a no-brainer. And when people actually find themselves enjoying the game again they might just play a little more and keep that queue full enough to give other players the experience they remember from better days who then decide to play a little more than usual, and so on.

 

Now, being shot down by invisible bullets can have a nasty impact on how well players enjoy the game as well, but summer is here. The Devs are apparently feeling nostalgic for their school days and taking the summer off.  No patches until this fall.

 

This I have to agree with. With a match minimum size of 3 vs 3 or 6 in queue to drop a match, I have watched the queue grow with in a minute to support a 15 vs 15 during prime time.

While off time would or could produce a minimum battle of 7 vs 7. Yet we end up with a 3 vs 3 instead leaving pilots behind in queue.

Simultaneous producing separate matches of 3 vs 3 , 4 vs 4, 3 vs 3 running at the same time.

Rather than the 3 separate matches there would be no real reason MM could not have made 1 single 10 vs 10 battle from the queue while doing it in under 1 minute.

I, in my own opinion believe it is the minimum match size that is causing the small matches.

If the match size was increased to 30 players in queue the wait times would not increase exponentially enough to chase players away.

So up the min. size from 6 to 30...simple solution of implementing a mini patch.  even for a temporary basis.



Mind_Eraser #67 Posted 23 June 2015 - 01:55 AM

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View Postgunlion, on 22 June 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

 

I had asked earlier this year. Basically the answer was that: it'd increase wait times if we did it. I think the discussion got tabled there, because it was a question of, "Would players be willing to wait longer?" I don't necessarily have the answer; I'm sure most of you on the forums would say, "Yes!" but I don't know what that looks like for the larger playerbase that aren't represented on the forums. Maybe it's something worth trying, just to measure. I'll resurrect the discussion about it internally.

The sad thing is that when "holiday missions" are included with a min-patch, and then taken away with a mini-patch in just days, we can't get a trial of such a MM with the same amount of time results.

Instead we have to wait 6 months to a year to make such a change, and then to make another is just as long. So we are forced to deal with it regardless of the outcome. Why not just have a mini-patch to see if it works, then just re-install the previous MM in a mini-patch if it doesn't work. Seriously, when I log on and I get 3v3 in 4 games in a row, I log out. Win or lose it just isn't worth playing the game shooting down 3 planes.

 

Some people want an end game or clan wars to start. I just want to kill more planes in a battle. I mean the MM is so screwed up not one person completed the last mission with the slot machine/ tokens. If that doesn't tell you something, and we the NA are supposed to have the best skilled pilots of the game, then what is it really going to take?

 

For the first time I d/l WT last night just to see what else is out there. That game does suck, but when you see 30,000+ players online it looks like a lot of fun for those who do like that game.

 

This game is in serious need of new management. The current ones have no plans on what to do now and in the future. They take countless months to make any decisions on our server. Woo hoo, new planes, etc, who cares if nobody is playing the game.


 


Ruklukk #68 Posted 23 June 2015 - 02:36 AM

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View Postgunlion, on 23 June 2015 - 01:00 AM, said:

 

It's an unfortunate consequence of the matchmaker. Part of my hope with the competitions and ladders coming up is that players will get a lot more chances to actually get into battles that are larger than 3v3 or 5v5. Obviously they won't be random battles, but I think it'll be a better outlet to try and actually recapture a bit of that feel. 

 

 

Giving pilots names is one of those things that really helps people form an identity with their crew. I'd still eventually like to see us offer customization of names and portraits. 

 

1943 was an awesome game, btw. :)

 

The change to the matchmaker that was implemented in 1.6 just didn't work for our region, mainly due to population, but it was also an attempt to create a better balance in the game. If players recall back to prior to 1.6, there were a lot of calls for a more balanced matchmaker: balance in tiers, balance in plane types, balance in number of flights per side, etc. And there were some safeguards put into the matchmaker as well that protected players below a certain battlecount (sandbox protection), we had the karma system that was implemented because players were getting placed against planes two tiers higher than them. In theory, the matchmaker changes were what players asked for, but in practice it didn't work out well for us--it just made it really difficult to create a match based on all these "perfect elements" and led to people waiting way too long to get into battle. The current matchmaker we have now is the opposite: it has no rules other than "grab players, push into battle," but that also means that it's popping battles that have lower-end single digit teams. Neither one is a perfect solution; what we have now is better than what we had in 1.6, but it's also got its issues.

 

It's not off the table to still adjust the minimum players per team the matchmaker tries to create, but again, it'd increase the wait times. 

 

 

Thank you for giving the details on some things that I had been speculating on. "Neither one is a perfect solution;" this is where we part ways in regards to logic. November 1st the server had a healthy 1,200 people on the weekends and 1k on weeknights. The change to the MM obviously didn't work and should have been rolled-back within 24 hours.

 

Wait times were just under 2 minutes and I didn't see any complaining. The current MM should not be an option for North America. Micro-matches hurt the population as much as the 10 minute wait times. People suffered through the long queue but quit when they kept getting 1v1. You remember the screenshots.

 

The game is fundamentally different 3v3 and 15v15. The adrenaline of seeing 14 other people around me flying and selecting targets was electric the first time I entered "Winter Battle" I was dead in under 8 seconds as I went head-on against another fighter. Twenty seconds later I was in another plane going 15v15 on the same map and got a kill and lived 30 seconds. Players can't get FIVE kills in a match anymore due to low match (not necessarily population) size. The game (and its medals) were designed for large matches. How can it be allowed to be abrogated in such a manner and for this long?

 

1943 was so great. Walking up to it the first time I was almost afraid to play because it looked so complicated.

 

Thanks again for the reply. I feel like a ghost who can finally stop haunting his old house...



dityboycom #69 Posted 23 June 2015 - 03:58 PM

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View Postgunlion, on 22 June 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

We've always billed it as an arcade game, even during the Beta. I think there have been mechanics that were sim-like--or maybe "sim-lite"--that have existed or still exist in the game that kind of gets players confused as well as to what it's supposed to be, but we've always called it an arcade game. I edited that third-person shooter comparison in there because that's really more akin to what we've been trying to go for. Warplanes is supposed to be all about action, more like what a Hollywood WW2 aerial fight would be rather than a technically-nuanced PC simulation of what a WW2 aerial fight would be. It's supposed to be Ace Combat, not IL-2.

 

This is what I was saying, the game has held that delicate line very well up until this point. When the game was more sim than it was arcade is when your population was the highest, every change that is made that pushes it one step closer to arcade and pulls it one step farther from sim, is killing this game. As I said, if there is a planned relaunch that would be cool, but assuming there is not; regardless of the "genre" it's categorized in, pushing it too far away from what people expect when they come to play a plane game is only going to further alienate it from its competitors. Especially having only one game mode that is hindered by "fair play" guidelines that rival that of a sponge bob square pants video game.

 

When people come to play this title, along with your other titles they expect something like tanks. Highly competitive, a lot of fun, a place where they can pow wow with their friends and play an arcade game that holds a lot of similarities to actual simulators, but stretches the truth and the boundaries. Right now I see WG taking WOWP in the direction of neglecting that, and justifying it with "it's an arcade game, if you expect a sim go some where else." People are going some place else, it's time to perfect what you have, instead of attempting to continue to change it into something it is not. Compile that with all of the pathetic attempts to make it a fair playing field with balanced MM, flight reductions, and much more instead of just mimicking the tanks MM platform and developing the game to a point that you're not consumed with trouble tickets because your code continues to have flaws in it.

 

People are continuing to leave, even your most dedicated players who have stuck it through everything with this title are finding themselves else where. Sure they might come back every once in a while to check in, but for the most part once they're gone they're gone; but, we continue to see some of their faces on the forums here and there. We're well aware you're just a middle man and you don't have much say in actual development changes, but really you can't continue to neglect the NA forum community because we are the vocal minority. Players who have left and are looking to return only check in on the forums, not in your game, those are the players you want back. We see the statistics of 1.7 going live dropping population in half after everyone touched the German GAA, then it spiked when 1.8 went live but this time it dropped in half quicker than 1.7. Allow us to test the game and actually resolve all of the problems prior to pushing these patches live, client side is a disaster, flights of 2 pushed away a fair chunk of your serious player base, and now the things coming down the pipe line such as these consumables are just furthering the damage done by 1.5, the last time more than 1000 users logged on to the NA server.

 

The real ball breaker here is development, we have found that NA ideals are different from RU and both are different from EU, but EU seems to share more in common with NA. It might be time to develop a isolate string of code just for the NA/EU community and continue to allow the RU population play the arcade game that you are set on turning this into with high speed turn fights on the deck in AA at every tier from t1 - t10. Well aware that would never happen, but if you want to revive this game you need to get more of your "sim-lite" features back that consumers can familiarize with, and what to dedicate their time to. Rather than pushing the game in a cell phone app direction with neglecting physics, history, and much more just to make a point, shoot, explode title.

 



Noreaga #70 Posted 23 June 2015 - 04:08 PM

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View Postdityboycom, on 23 June 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:

 

This is what I was saying, the game has held that delicate line very well up until this point. When the game was more sim than it was arcade is when your population was the highest, every change that is made that pushes it one step closer to arcade and pulls it one step farther from sim, is killing this game. As I said, if there is a planned relaunch that would be cool, but assuming there is not; regardless of the "genre" it's categorized in, pushing it too far away from what people expect when they come to play a plane game is only going to further alienate it from its competitors. Especially having only one game mode that is hindered by "fair play" guidelines that rival that of a sponge bob square pants video game.

 

When people come to play this title, along with your other titles they expect something like tanks. Highly competitive, a lot of fun, a place where they can pow wow with their friends and play an arcade game that holds a lot of similarities to actual simulators, but stretches the truth and the boundaries. Right now I see WG taking WOWP in the direction of neglecting that, and justifying it with "it's an arcade game, if you expect a sim go some where else." People are going some place else, it's time to perfect what you have, instead of attempting to continue to change it into something it is not. Compile that with all of the pathetic attempts to make it a fair playing field with balanced MM, flight reductions, and much more instead of just mimicking the tanks MM platform and developing the game to a point that you're not consumed with trouble tickets because your code continues to have flaws in it.

 

People are continuing to leave, even your most dedicated players who have stuck it through everything with this title are finding themselves else where. Sure they might come back every once in a while to check in, but for the most part once they're gone they're gone; but, we continue to see some of their faces on the forums here and there. We're well aware you're just a middle man and you don't have much say in actual development changes, but really you can't continue to neglect the NA forum community because we are the vocal minority. Players who have left and are looking to return only check in on the forums, not in your game, those are the players you want back. We see the statistics of 1.7 going live dropping population in half after everyone touched the German GAA, then it spiked when 1.8 went live but this time it dropped in half quicker than 1.7. Allow us to test the game and actually resolve all of the problems prior to pushing these patches live, client side is a disaster, flights of 2 pushed away a fair chunk of your serious player base, and now the things coming down the pipe line such as these consumables are just furthering the damage done by 1.5, the last time more than 1000 users logged on to the NA server.

 

The real ball breaker here is development, we have found that NA ideals are different from RU and both are different from EU, but EU seems to share more in common with NA. It might be time to develop a isolate string of code just for the NA/EU community and continue to allow the RU population play the arcade game that you are set on turning this into with high speed turn fights on the deck in AA at every tier from t1 - t10. Well aware that would never happen, but if you want to revive this game you need to get more of your "sim-lite" features back that consumers can familiarize with, and what to dedicate their time to. Rather than pushing the game in a cell phone app direction with neglecting physics, history, and much more just to make a point, shoot, explode title.

 

 

+1 being one of those who has given up. It's not the game, it's the dramatic changes and the refusal to acknowledge that they were poor development choices AFTER release. I am ready and willing to say that i am wrong if it can be proved that changes from 1.5 on have helped population, from my point of view it hasn't and then it becomes "well they can't admit their mistakes, why bother stick around giving feedback? They will just do want they want anyway" Your other titles do not seem to work this way, and even your newest title has more of a concrete vision then this game years later.

Edited by Noreaga, 23 June 2015 - 04:08 PM.

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losttwo #71 Posted 23 June 2015 - 04:30 PM

    which way do we go?

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I remember when we begged to get just one answer from the staff now we have 6 in 1 post...:hiding:

Edited by losttwo, 23 June 2015 - 04:30 PM.


Noreaga #72 Posted 23 June 2015 - 04:48 PM

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that's why we love gunny, he puts himself in harms way every time he posts here!

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dityboycom #73 Posted 23 June 2015 - 04:50 PM

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Well to be fair, if they poked their heads in more often we wouldn't pounce all the worlds problems into a single thread that has nothing to do with the majority of mod responses.

dityboycom #74 Posted 23 June 2015 - 04:51 PM

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I mean we still have no feedback in the client side thread, or any of the bug threads, or the feedback in the feedback section. I'd take feedback in a few threads a day instead of 6 in one :)

Pertinacious #75 Posted 23 June 2015 - 05:23 PM

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Here's my look at what happened. WG developed WOWP, based on the WOT model that was thriving

WWI~1960s machines; 15 vs. 15; 3 man squads; 3 tier spread; simulationish arcade game with HP and repair kits; etc. 

(BTW, this same model is used in WOWS.)

 

When they put it all together, they saw WOWP didn't quite work like WOT. 

Higher tier planes gave more advantage than higher tier tanks.

Skilled players did much better in WOWP than in WOT. 

Flights were stronger than platoons. 

 

The differences led to complaints and loss of players, so they decided to make changes. 

Maybe these changes could have been done with fine tuning each attributes of planes, but that would have been really difficult and time-consuming. 

So they took an easy way with the MM change, without realizing (or caring?) that it would basically make the game unplayable in NA. 

Thanks to gunlion, it was fixed but after damage was done. 

 

I still have some questions tho. Why does WG (not WGNA) not pay enough attention to the NA server? 

The time it took for the NA MM change to be implemented tells us that the NA server is not high in their priority.

His biases aside, tens of thousands of people visited silentstalker's For The Record blog every single day to see translations of WGRU developer QnA forum thread. 

With a part time intern, WG could have had that outlet for their own customers. 

 


Edited by Pertinacious, 23 June 2015 - 05:24 PM.

 


dityboycom #76 Posted 23 June 2015 - 05:33 PM

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View PostPertinacious, on 23 June 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

Here's my look at what happened. WG developed WOWP, based on the WOT model that was thriving

WWI~1960s machines; 15 vs. 15; 3 man squads; 3 tier spread; simulationish arcade game with HP and repair kits; etc. 

(BTW, this same model is used in WOWS.)...

Sure, well they did change divisions to two people instead of three in ships.

View PostPertinacious, on 23 June 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

...When they put it all together, they saw WOWP didn't quite work like WOT. 

Higher tier planes gave more advantage than higher tier tanks.

Skilled players did much better in WOWP than in WOT. 

Flights were stronger than platoons...

 

Higher tier tanks are next to indestructible to tanks two tiers lower, planes take the same amount of damage from any tier plane if they can get a shot in on them.

 

Skilled players do not do better in WoWP than WoT, WWP's player base is so dismal it seems like skilled players carry games more often and impact the game play, when in reality skilled players in WoWP are rare, and few and far between. Tanks has a slue of mods that make even the most mediocre of players the best players on the map, and given the armor mechanic it is possible for a tank 1 or two tiers higher to completely decimate 4 or even more tanks by themselves on a regular basis. Planes no matter how awesome you are, you will take some damage and eventually run out of enough HP to maneuver into a position of advantage. Damage is nearly guaranteed in planes, while not so much in tanks.

 

Flights are hardly stronger than platoons, a platoon of 3 mod using top players in tanks can kill an entire 15 man team by themselves without moving and the game will be over in a few minutes. In planes flights can carry a 15v15 game but you will be damned if they see all 15 kills on a regular basis.

 

View PostPertinacious, on 23 June 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

...The differences led to complaints and loss of players, so they decided to make changes. 

Maybe these changes could have been done with fine tuning each attributes of planes, but that would have been really difficult and time-consuming. 

So they took an easy way with the MM change, without realizing (or caring?) that it would basically make the game unplayable in NA. 

Thanks to gunlion, it was fixed but after damage was done. ...

Those differences had nothing to do with the loss of a substantial amount of players as they are key determining factors in tanks success. People don't mind getting pooped on when they know eventually they will be able to poop on people like they were once pooped on themselves.

 

The MM change was the smallest of WG's issues in development with this game.  Gunlion's change was not a fix, it was a patch, and he himself said it was temporary and they would continue to work on a functioning algorithm for the NA server; unfortunately, the development team and gunlion found other priorities and 6 months later we are still suffering through 3v3 games with 5 GAA.

 

View PostPertinacious, on 23 June 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

...I still have some questions tho. Why does WG (not WGNA) not pay enough attention to the NA server?

 

We have a total population that reflects the prime time population online in the RU region.

 

View PostPertinacious, on 23 June 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

...The time it took for the gunlion patch to be implemented tells us that the NA server is not high in the priority.

His biases aside, tens of thousands of people visited silentstalker's For The Record blog every single day to see translations of WGRU developer QnA forum thread. 

With a part time intern, WG could have had that outlet for their own customers.

 

Gunlion himself told us that were not a priority, they also told us that forwarding information to us the same time EU/RU gets it is not a viable solution because of translation. Instead of delaying announcements until they are translated and ready to be posted to all outlets at once like any other company would do with announcements.

 

Any other questions?



GiN_nTonic #77 Posted 23 June 2015 - 05:45 PM

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View Postgunlion, on 22 June 2015 - 06:51 PM, said:

 

Again, the game was never intended to be a simulator. If that's what people are looking for, they will not find it here. WoWP was always meant to be an arcade game. WoWP is like a third-person shooter with planes. 

 

Gunlion - the new consumables are a joke.  I have yet to talk with someone in-game who actually wants this.  Why is WG constantly spending time developing things no-one wants? - all the while ignoring things we actually want.  1.5 was a great example of the Dev having a mind of their own and being too cute in order to help noobs.  In the end it hurt noobs and vets, and was the biggest failure of this game.

 

The new consumables will be cheats for sale.  If you think that is a good idea, then this game is truly lost.


Edited by JlNN, 23 June 2015 - 05:46 PM.


GiN_nTonic #78 Posted 23 June 2015 - 05:50 PM

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View Postdityboycom, on 23 June 2015 - 05:33 PM, said:

 

 

Higher tier tanks are next to indestructible to tanks two tiers lower, planes take the same amount of damage from any tier plane if they can get a shot in on them.

 

 

From the front perhaps - but most tanks have weak spots to aim to.  All this is highly dependent on the type of planes or tanks you're trying to compare +2/-2 tier diff.  In WoWP though its highly possible for a -2 plane to not even be able to reach tier opponent.  

 

Im not a fan of 2 tier difference on either game.  I believe 1 is enough.


Edited by JlNN, 23 June 2015 - 05:51 PM.


dityboycom #79 Posted 23 June 2015 - 05:55 PM

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View PostJlNN, on 23 June 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

 

From the front perhaps - but most tanks have weak spots to aim to.  All this is highly dependent on the type of planes or tanks you're trying to compare +2/-2 tier diff.  In WoWP though its highly possible for a -2 plane to not even be able to reach tier opponent.  

 

Im not a fan of 2 tier difference on either game.  I believe 1 is enough.

 

I've been playing tanks pretty much non stop for the past month now, and now that I'm seeing T9's I can tell you this is not the case. In theory yes, every tank can take damage if you find the right spot to hit them with. Without mods to tell you where the spot is and a well trained crew hitting that spot is next to impossible. If that doesn't deter new players who don't know about mods, crew skills, or penetration techniques, then the little bit of "2 tier higher planes are too fast!" complaints around here are nothing.

Pertinacious #80 Posted 23 June 2015 - 05:59 PM

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1. Higher tier tanks are next to indestructible to tanks two tiers lower, planes take the same amount of damage from any tier plane if they can get a shot in on them.

 

I think this statement is affected by your skills in WOWP and relative inexperience with WOT. There are plenty of weak spots to take advantage of and plenty of gold shells you can buy. Higher tier planes don't have armor, but they have better maneuverability and/or speed that dodge those bullets. If you think about it, it's much easier when you are given the choice of hitting and penning less, than not even being able to hit much. 

 

2. Skilled players do not do better in WoWP than WoT, WWP's player base is so dismal it seems like skilled players carry games more often and impact the game play, when in reality skilled players in WoWP are rare, and few and far between. Tanks has a slue of mods that make even the most mediocre of players the best players on the map, and given the armor mechanic it is possible for a tank 1 or two tiers higher to completely decimate 4 or even more tanks by themselves on a regular basis. Planes no matter how awesome you are, you will take some damage and eventually run out of enough HP to maneuver into a position of advantage. Damage is nearly guaranteed in planes, while not so much in tanks.

 

All I have to do on this point is to point at the top players. Look at guys like phrap or crayoloa. They have w/r around 90%. They were great even before the population dwindled. 

Check out this site. It's the fantasy site (like fantasy football) for PRO WOT players. You can see even the best of the best players have w/r around 70%. 

If you think mods make a player better, you are clearly mistaken. Sure, some of the illegal mods might be able to do that. But they are illegal for that reason. 

 

3. Flights are hardly stronger than platoons, a platoon of 3 mod using top players in tanks can kill an entire 15 man team by themselves without moving and the game will be over in a few minutes. In planes flights can carry a 15v15 game but you will be damned if they see all 15 kills on a regular basis.

 

We've talked about this before, so I don't think it'll serve any purpose to rehash it. Just one point, platoons can kill the entire team by themselves without moving? 

 

4. Those differences had nothing to do with the loss of a substantial amount of players as they are key determining factors in tanks success. People don't mind getting pooped on when they know eventually they will be able to poop on people like they were once pooped on themselves.

 

But people do mind it. Gunlion said people complained about the imbalance. Many people on this very forum talked about how WG listened to the "whiners." 

 

5. The MM change was the smallest of WG's issues in development with this game.  Gunlion's change was not a fix, it was a patch, and he himself said it was temporary and they would continue to work on a functioning algorithm for the NA server; unfortunately, the development team and gunlion found other priorities and 6 months later we are still suffering through 3v3 games with 5 GAA.

 

I have said before, the fundamental issue with WOWP is that it is too hard for most people. What I meant by that is its customer base was fundamentally limited to begin with. The MM change destroyed what little customers the game had at that point. So we are kind of in agreement here. 

 

 

6. Gunlion himself told us that were not a priority, they also told us that forwarding information to us the same time EU/RU gets it is not a viable solution because of translation. Instead of delaying announcements until they are translated and ready to be posted to all outlets at once like any other company would do with announcements.

 

I understand we are not the top priority. My question is why are we at such a low priority that they don't even have a dedicated intern doing official translations faster? 


Edited by Pertinacious, 23 June 2015 - 06:05 PM.

 





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