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Rosebud #321 Posted 06 March 2015 - 08:29 PM

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View Post_Laserguided_, on 06 March 2015 - 01:11 PM, said:

FACT: Wargaming, those in charge have set the policy... I suggest sending a ticket to the Customer Service Center.   The common trait for those against flights seem to the disconnect from the FACT that Wargaming is who they need to address about their complaint. Along with Snarky comments, personal attacks, dismissive behavior....

 

and you seem to have forgotten that this is the suggestion section of the forums and that these ideas are suggestions. Maybe you should contract WG directly and have them change their policy on how their forums work?


 


dityboycom #322 Posted 06 March 2015 - 08:50 PM

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View Postlosttwo, on 06 March 2015 - 02:49 PM, said:

this thing is still not locked yet...WOW.

I resisted the first 15 pages, but I have been successfully sucked in! Rosebud seems to be my new sparring buddy!

View PostRosebud, on 06 March 2015 - 03:26 PM, said:

 

OMG...WG posted videos of an aspect of their game...rock solid proof that they indeed have flights. The part I found particularly interesting was just 35 seconds into the first. Two full teams of 15 planes each. I guess they were thinking flights would work best that way...unless you have some video produced by WG showing teams of 3 or 4 including flights?

So as the population dwindles those who are still here should be punished by being limited on their ability to play with their friends. This is totally gonna help the population!!!11!!oneoneone!!11!!!

 

Get over thinking that flights are a problem in this game, or the players playing this game are doing one specific thing that could be the cause for all of our population problems. Accept that poor coding and high standards of the NA marketplace are the sole reason the game is suffering. In other parts of the world that don't have the BBB and laws to ensure companies do things right, so there are no real expectations of companies, especially in Russia, where this game is developed. People pay for the privilege to be allowed to play a companies product. They ask and receive or not they appreciate the availability to be able to utilize what they have. In the NA market, we ask and if we do not receive the market is so plentiful we move on to the next person who is willing to give us what we want.

 

Why beg when I can go over here and get it? Yeah, no thanks.

 

Its not any players habits causing this game to die. It's Wargamings failure to put out a product that is with out bugs and well thought out. They continue to produce sub par "improvements" that always need to be readdressed nearly immediately. There is no reason 1.7.2 should be out when 1.7 has only been out a week, but it is. Why? Because the huge count of bugs LOCATED ON THE TEST SERVER were not resolved before pushing the patch live regardless of complaints from their users. Wargaming does not care about us, in the NA region that is enough reason for a game to die, as it is.

 

Every time they do something to cater to us the population spikes, then falls again when they pull a stunt like 1.7. Seriously? You implement "Improved sounds" with less sounds and controls than before? You implement "impoved marker system" that makes it next to impossible to see things you could see before, but allows you to identify the separation of targets and minimize the clutter on your screen, while at the same time creating old bugs that you have resolved in the past causing people unable to spectate others, or getting no sound at all in spectator mode.

 

So yes Rosebud, they designed the system around 15 man games. No Rosebud, the little bit of remaining community in NA should not be punished because Wargaming fails to be a competent company.



_Laserguided_ #323 Posted 06 March 2015 - 09:03 PM

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View PostRosebud, on 06 March 2015 - 12:29 PM, said:

 

and you seem to have forgotten that this is the suggestion section of the forums and that these ideas are suggestions. Maybe you should contract WG directly and have them change their policy on how their forums work?

 

Demonizing and targeting other players in your quests to mold the game to your personal desires isn't a suggestion. The issue has been but forth to Wargaming and they said, NO...  Going on about it dozens of times here isn't suggesting anything but the fact people haven't accepted the reality it's not going to change. You might as well be suggesting changing the game to World of ShoppingCarts...

 



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EspressoForHammy #324 Posted 06 March 2015 - 09:29 PM

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I'll take the bait.

 

Rosebud is correct. Flights in this game in it's current state are OP, and as such to most fair-minded players such as myself, a broken mechanic.

 

Rosebud is also, however, a broken record. Endless shat-poasting by Dayne followed by endless argument by all others grabbing a little poo from the original shat-poast and smearing it on themselves is the biggest exercise in futility and waste of time since taking a spinning class on a beautiful day.

 

Mods, please end this.


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ArrowZ_ #325 Posted 06 March 2015 - 09:57 PM

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EspressoForHammy #326 Posted 07 March 2015 - 03:32 AM

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Hai.

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Rosebud #327 Posted 07 March 2015 - 06:19 AM

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View PostEspressoForHammy, on 06 March 2015 - 04:29 PM, said:

I'll take the bait.

 

Rosebud is correct. Flights in this game in it's current state are OP, and as such to most fair-minded players such as myself, a broken mechanic.

 


 

 

Done


 


losttwo #328 Posted 07 March 2015 - 02:21 PM

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GeorgePatton #329 Posted 07 March 2015 - 11:30 PM

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View PostEspressoForHammy, on 06 March 2015 - 04:29 PM, said:

I'll take the bait.

 

Rosebud is correct. Flights in this game in it's current state are OP, and as such to most fair-minded players such as myself, a broken mechanic.

 

Rosebud is also, however, a broken record. Endless shat-poasting by Dayne followed by endless argument by all others grabbing a little poo from the original shat-poast and smearing it on themselves is the biggest exercise in futility and waste of time since taking a spinning class on a beautiful day.

 

Mods, please end this.

 

View PostRosebud, on 07 March 2015 - 01:19 AM, said:

Done

 

OK, so first of all, I don't agree with Espresso completely, although I do partially agree... You also have to remember that post I made a while back - the one where I said that single pilots are too OP as well...

 

Flights do make up a very large percentage (often 100%) of a higher-tier match, but so do ridiculously good pilots if they get on a 3v3 match... So, removing flights isn't going to do you any good unless you remove pilots with more than a 50% win rate... That's why I have an issue with it at the core, but then there's also the issue about people wanting to play with their friends, etc etc etc...

 

Rosebud, just because one guy from a clan you don't like to see flighting agrees with you, does not mean you've done anything to prove your point or provide the evidence required for some of the claims you've made.

 

 

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Autolycus7 #330 Posted 08 March 2015 - 09:45 PM

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View PostEspressoForHammy, on 06 March 2015 - 02:29 PM, said:

Rosebud is correct. Flights in this game in it's current state are OP, and as such to most fair-minded players such as myself, a broken mechanic.

 

Stop being reasonable!

 

Dang it all. Now I have to be, too.

 

Ahem. Two person flights. Discuss.


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F50ACE #331 Posted 08 March 2015 - 10:08 PM

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View PostAutolycus7, on 08 March 2015 - 04:45 PM, said:

 

Stop being reasonable!

 

Dang it all. Now I have to be, too.

 

Ahem. Two person flights. Discuss.

Already discussed: Flights



BrushWolf #332 Posted 08 March 2015 - 10:37 PM

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View PostAutolycus7, on 08 March 2015 - 03:45 PM, said:

 

Stop being reasonable!

 

Dang it all. Now I have to be, too.

 

Ahem. Two person flights. Discuss.

 

I don't feel that flight size would have much if any effect. What makes over powered flights over powered is voice communication. A group of good pilots flighted in game are just as deadly flighted up as the same group counting in under the radar using third party voice comm software. At least you know they are grouped up now.

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ArrowZ_ #333 Posted 09 March 2015 - 12:21 AM

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Sigh... Time to take the bait and hopefully put an end to this over-beaten dead horse of a thread.

 

View PostBrushWolf, on 09 March 2015 - 08:07 AM, said:

I don't feel that flight size would have much if any effect. What makes over powered flights over powered is voice communication. A group of good pilots flighted in game are just as deadly flighted up as the same group counting in under the radar using third party voice comm software. At least you know they are grouped up now.

See, The problem with this statement is you forget that the Matchmaking system for this game is completely random, which includes the match ups of teams. So what does this mean for people counting in at the same time in que un-flighted? First, in the perfect world where if NA had over 5000+ population players, counting in un-flighted at the same time in a que with over 200+ people; the chance of these players being seen in the same game is remote since games are pulled so fast that they may not see each other in the same game. Since our current NA is abysmal in population, there is a greater chance of seeing each other in the same game because matches are being pulled much slower with less people in que.

 

Second, even if your chance of being pulled in the same match is high, there is still that other factor of which side MM will place you on the 2 made-up teams. Being placed on either the Red or Green team is ALSO random. So even if a small group of people counted in at the same time & were pulled in the same match, they would still have to go through MM's randomness in which side they will be placed. Friend 1 & 2 could be placed in the same team while Friend 3 & 4 would be on the other side. Or all 3 Friends could be on the same team & only 1 Friend is all alone on the other side. Or they could ALL be on the same side. It's all random. Ofcourse the randomness of which side you will be placed applies mostly for un-flighted players. However for Flights it's quite obvious that when a 3 or 2 man Flight (singular) join any battle they are placed on the same side of the team because that is how it is designed. That's how the Flight mechanic works. Nothing can change that & nothing will. That's how Flights work & will continue to work according to gunlion's recent msg.

 

Now I have been on both sides of this "Flights R OP NERF/REMOVE PLZ" before, giving my countless 2 cents on why Flights should be dumbed down or why Flights shouldn't be removed or why Flights even exist in a region with so little population to support it etc etc., and have come to the conclusion that WHINING WILL NOT GET YOU ANYWHERE WITH THIS GAME. Yep that's right. You're wasting your breath trying to project your morality over a topic that have been beaten, slashed & burned to death by so many that any form of argument to remove Flights or otherwise will fall on deaf ears.

 

Let go of your ego. Let go of those precious stats. The truth is nobody cares. Heck nobody even cares about this game, especially in US. Even if people judge you by those 2 very things why does it matter? It's just a game. Who cares if you lose 10 times, 20 times or 100 times. That one particular match where a flight stomps your team does not mean it's the end of the world for WOWP. You can ALWAYS try again and again and again.

 

How you should deal with Flights in this game is simple: Practice. Learn to counter them. Learn some Teamwork; that means use your team to your advantage even if they are a bunch of scrubs. But the most important above all of them is to PERSEVERE against all odds. Push through even if at times it looks bad & it seems like there's nothing you can do. I have been there. We all have. If you're not going to at the very least try to develop some skills to counter Flights in this game or create a Flight on your own then... why are you even here? In fact why did you even sign up to play a heavy aerial PvP game? I get that while there is a PvP aspect in any game any player would expect some form of PvE as well but the sad truth about WOWP is there is little PvE content in it. If you were to put blame on anyone, cast your blame on the people who designed this game. They're incompetence is what lead to the dismay of WOWP & the lackluster PvE content that so many here desire to enjoy. I have to admit I too enjoy some quiet solo time in WOWP but at the same time Flights are also enjoyable as it opens many opportunities for players to learn about basic Teamwork & Flight tactics. Solo & Flights are two dynamics in this game that shouldn't be separated because a portion of the community think it's too "OP" or that it needs to be nerfed etc. It should be seen as a pathway for newbs to learn the different aspects of game-play in WOWP & what they can do with it.

 

 

In the end you just have to

(lol) Let it go. It really is that simple. Just let go of the hatred towards Flights. It won't go away. Instead Persevere & adapt towards flights. Kind of like this video (minus the freezing cold). And look at that lyrics are included too. Perfect! You can sing your heart's content about Flights with this song! Yay!

 

If you've come to the realization that Flights won't go away and will continue on with WOWP to become better adapting towards flights then good for you. You are on the right path to becoming a better player. If you're going to place yourself in this endless cesspool of arguments about Flights & not wanting to change your gameplay then you won't get anywhere with WOWP.

 

That concludes my crap poasting. Let the haters come! I'll take you all on. Bring it nubs :trollface:


Edited by ArrowZ_, 09 March 2015 - 01:29 AM.

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Autolycus7 #334 Posted 09 March 2015 - 12:41 AM

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View PostCaptain_F22ACE, on 08 March 2015 - 03:08 PM, said:

Already discussed: Flights

 

I guess I should have specified. Discuss, in English.

 

Grenoli, a Develeoper, via Google Translate of F22Ace's link:

 Feedback from the community as a whole it is clear there are both supporters and opponents of the reduction in the number of people in the link flight. Everyone has their own reasons. What to do next? While not exactly say, but the topic has appeared necessary and relevant. I will keep up to date with changes and if we test this format, inform loud and everywhere =).

 

Choke on that, "let's stop talking about flights" crowd!

 

@Brush: Disagree. It's not that simple. It is a combination of factors and the number of people in the flight is definitely one of them, along with comms, tier, OPness of plane, and skill in general. Speaking as somebody with way above average experience flying as part of a two person flight (I might have done it more than anyone else on the server), two person flights are not nearly as insurmountable to overcome the way three person flights are, yet still provide a vast advantage versus flying solo (e.g., I hit a new Sky Scourge/Furious/etc record a few weeks back, but I didn't feel like I was trolling when it snuck up on me because it was done as a two person flight without any tier hopping).

 

Heck, just a week or two ago I was flying off comms as a flight of 2 and we beat a flight of 3 above average pilots (by my slow-to-compliment judgement) that I know use comms, 4-5 times in a row. It wasn't remotely easy, my hands were twitching after most, but the skill disparity (and full disclosure, our luck) was just great enough to pull it off. That right there demonstrates that 1) two person flights are still incredibly strong and 2) voice comm usage isn't the singularly important factor you make it out to be.

 

Also, counting in via voice comms doesn't provide certainty of outcome the way flights do. I remember doing it back before flights existed and it was at best a 50-50 shot that you would end up on the same team as your buddy (the odds seemed more like 20%). When you added more players into the equation it was exceptionally rare that things ended up lopsided. To summarize a big chunk of Arrow's post: Chaos is fair.

 

@Arrow: With regards to ego and the capacity of the skilled WoWP NA pilot to let go of their ego, I'm a bit more pessimistic than you.

 

1.5 years ago, I wrote:

Why is a little responsibility and self control so hard to ask? I don't think it is. I know several skilled players that have been flying "bad" planes, solo, in lower tiers, or some combination thereof. It's the combination of factors that leads to this problem and doing just one of those things makes a difference. Is it so bad to ask that seals be clubbed with a wooden bat instead of a poisonous spiky metal bludgeon until we all have enough seals to club?

...

The social contract is not unilateral. The ability of a few players to play how they see fit has negatively impacted the ability of a far, far greater number of players to play how they see fit. This negative impact goes beyond a mere skill disparity. Rather, it implies the fundamental problems with the game you mention. Because the ability of the players to impact the game mechanics directly is limited, some are simply asking for other players alleviate the problem by making minor changes to their play, at least until the proper fixes are made. And the reply seems to be a resounding "No. I like to abuse the system wherever possible. I care about myself, not the community. Deal with it or blame WG, not me." 

 

With regards to the possibility of change, I'm a bit more optimistic. The thread F22 posted is a perfect example. The developers know there is an issue. They know suggestions like switching to 2 person flights are reasonable options worth consideration. They are raising these questions themselves. They are interested in community input. As long as these things are true, I don't see why we should completely give up hope and accept it as dogma when people spout that "Flights will never change; deal with it!" dreck. It simply isn't true.


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BrushWolf #335 Posted 09 March 2015 - 05:34 AM

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View PostArrowZ_, on 08 March 2015 - 06:21 PM, said:

Sigh... Time to take the bait and hopefully put an end to this over-beaten dead horse of a thread.

 

See, The problem with this statement is you forget that the Matchmaking system for this game is completely random, which includes the match ups of teams. So what does this mean for people counting in at the same time in que un-flighted? First, in the perfect world where if NA had over 5000+ population players, counting in un-flighted at the same time in a que with over 200+ people; the chance of these players being seen in the same game is remote since games are pulled so fast that they may not see each other in the same game. Since our current NA is abysmal in population, there is a greater chance of seeing each other in the same game because matches are being pulled much slower with less people in que.

 

Yes the MM is random but get a few friends together and do click ins, you will end up with several of them on the same team quite often. While it isn't guaranteed it is a simple way to create a flight without being in one in the game. It is a factor of our population and the only way to fix it is grow the population.

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dityboycom #336 Posted 09 March 2015 - 02:35 PM

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On to page 19, if flights are seriously causing this game to die. Which this game was designed to flight up with your buddies in the first place. Then the game deserves to die. Point, case, close the thread.

 

There is nothing more to talk about if you want to keep people playing with their friends to a minimum. Find some friends and fight back, don't have the time? Sucks for you, and sucks for this game that they can't attract players that do have the time. Nobody cares about you and your whiney "OH MY GAWD MY BUTT HURTS SO BAD BECAUSE I CAN'T WIN ITS NO FUN!" gtfo here and go play hop scotch with your girlfriends.



_Laserguided_ #337 Posted 09 March 2015 - 04:33 PM

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Happily awaits the change to two man flights so the same people who complained about flights(among other things...) when 15V15 matches were common and so on will continue to create threads complaining about an air combat game being too competitive.

 

Btw... If those in charge were really all that interested in community input the problem might not even exist...

 

Of course anyone who believes removing one person from flights at this point is going to move population is special.

 

 

Heck, just a week or two ago I was flying off comms as a flight of 2 and we beat a flight of 3 above average pilots (by my slow-to-compliment judgement) that I know use comms, 4-5 times in a row. It wasn't remotely easy, my hands were twitching after most, but the skill disparity (and full disclosure, our luck) was just great enough to pull it off. That right there demonstrates that 1) two person flights are still incredibly strong and 2) voice comm usage isn't the singularly important factor you make it out to be.

 

Actually what it demonstrates is what many have said, the way to deal with flights? Other flights...



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_Laserguided_ #338 Posted 09 March 2015 - 04:34 PM

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View PostAutolycus7, on 08 March 2015 - 04:41 PM, said:

@Arrow: With regards to ego and the capacity of the skilled WoWP NA pilot to let go of their ego, I'm a bit more pessimistic than you.

 

 

 

No comment...

 



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Traurig_Yoda #339 Posted 09 March 2015 - 04:35 PM

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Priolia (February 6, 2015 - 13:20) wrote:Google Translate of F22Ace's link:

Advantage can not see. I see that opinions were divided. And your conclusions about the unwillingness to do anything and search for this excuses and reasons, erroneous. Although, if only because if we did not want anything to do with it, this would be the theme in principle could would occur on the forum.Each course makes such conclusions that he wants / is convenient as well, or variant, is what to do accustomed to, based on their experience. I made his: there is no single option, which at least in theory gave an overwhelming majority. And this, as I wrote above, means that any solution will have to think on the basis of specific data, rather than on the basis of opinions.

 

Grenoli (February 5, 2015 - 16:32) wrote:Google Translate of F22Ace's link:

Unsubscribe: topic read constantly. Feedback from the community as a whole it is clear there are both supporters and opponents of the reduction in the number of people in the link. Everyone has their own reasons. What to do next? While not exactly say, but the topic has appeared necessary and relevant. I will keep up to date with changes and if we test this format, inform loud and everywhere =). I close this topic. 

 

_StahlHelm_ (February 9, 2015 - 12:58) wrote:Google Translate of F22Ace's link:

Grenoli are not the most important, alas. Surely he has created the best of intentions in order to know the opinion of the topic, but found someone "more important." Bosses it is - does not like excessive amateur. According to his superiors know

 

 

Autolycus7, on 08 March 2015 - 07:41 PM, said:

"Choke on that, "let's stop talking about flights" crowd!"

 

 

You add the rest of the remarks and you have to wonder why anyone would think their point of view was represented as a win, Grenoli was shut down by his superiors, guessing he ranks similar to our Gunlion, was trying to reach out and help and got kicked in the junk for it.... 

 

 

Priolia

 means that any solution will have to think on the basis of specific data, rather than on the basis of opinions.

 

After looking at GP's poll and that 20+ pages of junk I doubt WG is going to risk another 1.5 on some opinions.

 


Edited by Traurig_Yoda, 09 March 2015 - 04:37 PM.





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