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Change Autopilot (map edge)


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SkyWolf__WM #21 Posted 11 February 2015 - 03:55 PM

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View PostGiNnTonic, on 10 February 2015 - 08:39 PM, said:

 

I promise you when I hit the edge of the map its someone else running to it for protection, and then I get caught (as I am sure we all have).

 

True. It's happened (happens) to everyone. And exploding when you hit the border is absurd.
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GiN_nTonic #22 Posted 11 February 2015 - 07:39 PM

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View PostSkyWolf__WM, on 11 February 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:

 

True. It's happened (happens) to everyone. And exploding when you hit the border is absurd.

 

I agree - exploding at the edge of the map when there isn't a clear distinction of the exact location would be crazy.


ElVaquero #23 Posted 11 February 2015 - 08:14 PM

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View PostGiNnTonic, on 11 February 2015 - 12:39 PM, said:

 

I agree - exploding at the edge of the map when there isn't a clear distinction of the exact location would be crazy.

 

But a mysterious force taking control of your plane and gently guiding you back to the battlefield isn't?

GiN_nTonic #24 Posted 11 February 2015 - 08:34 PM

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View PostElVaquero, on 11 February 2015 - 08:14 PM, said:

 

But a mysterious force taking control of your plane and gently guiding you back to the battlefield isn't?

 

LOL...good point.

 

I guess both are "odd".  Honestly, thinking more on this, I suppose the explosion idea wouldn't be 1/2 bad IF WG would have some sort of semi-transparent indicator.  That way people can't use the map edge for defense.  My point to it being "crazy" was in thinking they left the map edge undefined in air - since its exact location isn't easy to determine.


Edited by GiNnTonic, 11 February 2015 - 08:35 PM.


GiN_nTonic #25 Posted 11 February 2015 - 08:44 PM

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Here is an example of what is in the movie Oblivion - see the boundary line -

 

Spoiler

 

Im not sure this idea offsets the beauty that exists in this game now where you feel like the sky is endless....especially considering these are supposed to be WW2 (and slightly beyond) settings.  Im showing this as an idea, but not sure I even like it.


Edited by GiNnTonic, 11 February 2015 - 08:47 PM.


Heibges #26 Posted 11 February 2015 - 08:48 PM

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Does this occur frequently on all maps, or just ones with objectives near the map border?


 

The Level Designers in other flying games/sims put their objectives well away from the border to avoid exactly this type of thing.


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GiN_nTonic #27 Posted 11 February 2015 - 09:07 PM

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View PostHeibges, on 11 February 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

Does this occur frequently on all maps, or just ones with objectives near the map border?


 

The Level Designers in other flying games/sims put their objectives well away from the border to avoid exactly this type of thing.

 

Its not so much about the GTs, but rather something i've seen used much more recently with players trying to use the map edge as a defensive measure.  I never find myself flying around without chasing someone and oops....i ran into the map edge.  Prior to these short matches, which have changed the dynamics a bit concerning finite strategy methods, i never had an issue with the map edge before.  However, with matches coming down to killing the last plane in a short time due to Superiority, i've seen many use the edge as part of their plan.

 

My suggestion is limited to: Make the effect of the autopilot as minimal as it has to be.  That is all I am suggesting.

 

 


Edited by GiNnTonic, 11 February 2015 - 09:11 PM.


losttwo #28 Posted 11 February 2015 - 09:18 PM

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View PostGiNnTonic, on 11 February 2015 - 04:07 PM, said:

 

Its not so much about the GTs, but rather something i've seen used much more recently with players trying to use the map edge as a defensive measure.  I never find myself flying around without chasing someone and oops....i ran into the map edge.  Prior to these short matches, which have changed the dynamics a bit concerning finite strategy methods, i never had an issue with the map edge before.  However, with matches coming down to killing the last plane in a short time due to Superiority, i've seen many use the edge as part of their plan.

 

My suggestion is limited to: Make the effect of the autopilot as minimal as it has to be.  That is all I am suggesting.

 

 

 

So the truth of the matter finally come to light.

Someone has found away to play smart and use the border to their advantage for a win/survival.

Preventing you or at least making it harder to get THE KILL or change the outcome of the match.

 

You lost my vote. I withdraw any support to changing the current border standards.



Gang_Starr #29 Posted 11 February 2015 - 09:39 PM

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using the border to your advantage is a tactic, you cant ask to change part of the game because it doesn't suit you. when in a battle you have to use everything at your disposal to get the win

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GiN_nTonic #30 Posted 11 February 2015 - 09:40 PM

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View Postlosttwo, on 11 February 2015 - 09:18 PM, said:

 

So the truth of the matter finally come to light.

Someone has found away to play smart and use the border to their advantage for a win/survival.

Preventing you or at least making it harder to get THE KILL or change the outcome of the match.

 

You lost my vote. I withdraw any support to changing the current border standards.

 

As if I was lying about my intentions.  I mean are you for real???

 

Being you must like invisible forces that grab hold of a plane to alter the outcome of a game - you got what you want.


Edited by GiNnTonic, 11 February 2015 - 09:42 PM.


GiN_nTonic #31 Posted 11 February 2015 - 09:41 PM

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View PostGang_Starr, on 11 February 2015 - 09:39 PM, said:

using the border to your advantage is a tactic, you cant ask to change part of the game because it doesn't suit you. when in a battle you have to use everything at your disposal to get the win

 

So you guys are saying my suggestion that the autopilot be as minimal as it has to be isn't a good suggestion?  Not saying to remove it - or change it completely....just saying it doesn't have to hold the plane for as long as it does.   Beyond the point above, there are times it takes the angle you are moving in and keeps you going into a stall or mountain.  All sorts of reasons I think it should be changed slightly to make it more palatable.

Edited by GiNnTonic, 11 February 2015 - 09:44 PM.


Gang_Starr #32 Posted 11 February 2015 - 09:56 PM

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IMO it should stay the way it is now, consider it a "punishment" that the game gives you for crossing that border. The thing is we KNOW that the autopilot will turn the plane 180 degrees so just plan out attacks better and avoid the border. I am always against changing something because it 's "inconvenient," it is what it is and instead of changing that angle just change your approach.

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Claudio67 #33 Posted 11 February 2015 - 10:22 PM

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View Postlosttwo, on 11 February 2015 - 07:53 AM, said:

here is a question about your proposal.

If a pilot runs into the border while being chased by a tunnel visioned murdering enemy what happens to both planes.

What is the exit angle of both planes ?

As it is currently played now the enemy can turn pre border and slaughter the border violator upon exiting.

It is an easy kill.

Yet if both enter the border, it takes a little more time to re-align the attack position.

With more of a chance of a missed or tables turned attack.

 

You tell me... Look at the entrance angle the plane I was chasing and mine, then look at the exit angles (This was in 1.4, so it was surely fixed! :hiding:)

 

Spoiler

 



GiN_nTonic #34 Posted 11 February 2015 - 10:48 PM

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View PostGang_Starr, on 11 February 2015 - 09:56 PM, said:

IMO it should stay the way it is now, consider it a "punishment" that the game gives you for crossing that border. The thing is we KNOW that the autopilot will turn the plane 180 degrees so just plan out attacks better and avoid the border. I am always against changing something because it 's "inconvenient," it is what it is and instead of changing that angle just change your approach.

 

I appreciate your opinion.

 

At 1.6 of this game, and considering the changes being offered all the time by WG, this would be one modification in thousands which will occur between now and say 5.0.  If this game was locked into its methods at a later version, I might agree it is what it is.  If chasing a plane into that zone resulted in the same penalty for both planes, I would also tend to agree to leave it as it was.  Looking at Claudio's video above, that is a good example of why I personally beleive something could be done to lessen the negative effects of this invisible force. 

 

 


Edited by GiNnTonic, 11 February 2015 - 10:50 PM.


losttwo #35 Posted 11 February 2015 - 11:53 PM

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The video shows poor situational awareness and attacking the enemy with tunnel vision to get the kill.

The pilot should have pulled off and up long before the warning and re-engage at another angle.

The ME 410 used a valid escape and evade tactic although I am sure it was by accident.

 

Just like if the 410 flew low and into friendly AA the KI-88 would have followed with the intent to get the kill

only to die from AA.

 

The thing about the auto pilot is that if you are high enough you wont crash into the ground.

Good situational awareness is all that needs to be changed and not making an easier border.

 

 


Edited by losttwo, 11 February 2015 - 11:55 PM.


GiN_nTonic #36 Posted 12 February 2015 - 01:16 AM

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....cause thats what we want, a game full of "happy accidents" and invisible forces throwing people into mountains.

 

This is a game of finite differences that can dictate the result of an engagement.  Since the size of the map is so small, and the plane locate marker so large, the scope of "situational awareness" required to know where that fine line is exactly seems unintuitive - especially considering the visual/material space/terrain appears contiguous.  However, my suggestion isn't based upon its existence, or purpose, but rather a simple tweak in minimizing the duration of influence it has over planes. 

 

I see some like the autopilot edge being a full 180 degree change, and the fact it will give you an auto-crash here and there.


Edited by GiNnTonic, 12 February 2015 - 01:17 AM.


losttwo #37 Posted 12 February 2015 - 11:47 AM

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http://youtu.be/OcNg8oWcxCE

What is the best way to counter almost anything in this game ?

TRAINING ROOM.

So off I went into an IL-2t and a BF109Z, enlarged the map and adjusted the radar.

I can if you like post a video but it is way too boring splicing 3 different videos together from different entry angles.

About 30 minutes of video, as if anyone will watch it.

Yes I flew low and flew high to see the effects of border violations.

The angle of entry and angle of departure are codependent upon each other.

Flying along the border in an IL-2t  ( close to border flashing ) then slowly entering at 30 degrees mid map will have you exit around 40 degrees

Only slightly more that entering. It is not a full 180 or 90 degree exit.

The less distance into the border violation the lesser the escape angle.

Like wise the vertical angle of plane is compensated if my judgement is correct Autopilot actually attempts to level your aircraft.

With my nose with in 10 degrees I would escape level any thing more then "auto " would compensate up or down. Attempting to auto level the plane.

Basically speed of entry, angle of entry and distance into the violation are large variables with around 10 degree increase.

45 degree normal speed entry will have you exit at a 55 degree angle as close to level as possible.

The warning flash, map and radar are adequate enough to allow tactical use of border with out hindrance to performance.

Even at high speed in the BF109Z there is enough warning to make a last minute direction change to compensate the direction of auto pilot.

 

The difference in training room and actual in game combat. There is no one shooting at you.

It is much easy on the situational awareness when doing something for a purpose of testing.

 

In short in order to lessen the effect of AUTOPILOT Wargaming would have to lessen the distance in which one can travel across the border.

The deeper you go into border violation the more it engages a turn.

Pilot error however can not be fixed.

 


Edited by losttwo, 12 February 2015 - 01:14 PM.


Chuck_norris10 #38 Posted 12 February 2015 - 12:12 PM

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If I'm chasing someone and they run for the border I will follow,it's not hard to stay away from the line and the guys that use it for cover are the easiest kills you will ever get when they lose control trying to get back in to the "game". Make em blow up if they hit the line......love the idea!

Might force some to actually join the team and play the game like it's intended.

 

Last I looked there were no objectives close to the border.


 

 


 

GiN_nTonic #39 Posted 12 February 2015 - 05:13 PM

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That video is interesting....since typically autopilot does turn me a  full 180 degrees - and even then it holds me for a second or two after i am turned and out of the forbidden zone.  Perhaps its based upon how fast you are going (therefore how deep in that area you end up).....  i'll do some testing and post results, but my experience is very different.

Edited by GiNnTonic, 12 February 2015 - 06:41 PM.


GiN_nTonic #40 Posted 13 February 2015 - 12:08 AM

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Alright - at lunch today I did some testing per what Lost video shows.  Here is what I found:

 

There are some angles of entry into the map edge (out of bounds) were the determination is made to either bring you back inside the boundary perpendicular to the map edge (shown in Red/Black), or allow a very shallow angle of exit (almost a bounce effect - shown in green).  I tested several approaches, but I dont have an exact degree # to share.  Here is the drawing with this data displayed without those specifics:

 

Spoiler

 

In my opinion, the entry angle could have nothing to do with the exit angle (currently variable), and therefore simply change the exit angle to match the "glance" effect version would mitigate this down to the "least possible amount of influence autopilot has over the plane".


Edited by GiNnTonic, 13 February 2015 - 12:09 AM.





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