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Balancing Matches

MM match maker balance tiers OP

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losttwo #1 Posted 06 February 2015 - 02:59 AM

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A few people queue into battle, after being placed into a match their first thought is

                                                 wth

Can you really blame them ? of course not.

They chose a tier 6 Multi-role fighter and are now faced against a tier 8 JET.

Who in their right mind even thinks that is fair ? after all tier 6 multi-role are all propeller planes.

 

Who in their right mind thinks this is fair match making or even close to being a balanced match.

That is not even the worst of the situation, it gets better.

The entire line up consist of :

TEAM A :                               TEAM B :

Tier 7                                     Tier 8

Tier 7                                     Tier 6

Tier 7                                     Tier 6

Tier 6                                     Tier 6

( the tier 7's are flighted )             

 

Your little tier 6 is out matched and out numbered.

Welcome to the glory of a RANDOM match maker.

But is is really random ?

How does it work ?

 

According to the Wargaming Blog CRUEL BALANCE it is a simple system matching tier and type.

That is all, no guns, not altitude or speed, upgraded or not. Just a simple question of:

What 3 tiers can I place together quickly in a combination of Fighter ( Multi ) Heavy and Attack.

It doesn't care if you have 1 game or 20K games. It doesn't care if you have 40% W/R or 80% W/R.

Being a computer based program it has to run with numbers and not names.

So the program doesn't recognize a Mustang from a Meteor or Joe from Charlie.

Only a 7 or a 7

So the tiers are switched from roman numerals to standard numbers then the type is given a point value.

According to the blog the values are : Attack Aircraft ( GA )= 0.3, Heavy Fighters= 0.25 and Fighters= 0.1

Does this mean a tier 7 IL-10 has the point value of 2.1 for the algorithm ?

Maybe even a tier 8 ME 262  would equal a value of 2. Which would mean the IL-10 has more value.

Yet a tier 7 fighter would be 0.7

In short the values of tier 7 would be : GA= 2.1, Hvy= 1.75, Fighter= 0.7

 

So what about flights ?

They have the possible added benefit of communication. Even with out communication they have a different color marker

making it easier to keep track of a friendly team mate.

YES the match maker takes flights into account when distributing players in a random battle.

A flight of 3 is given a multiplier of 0.02

If I understand the blog correctly and I welcome any mathematician to correct me. ( I stink at math )

The formula for a flight of 3 tier 7's would be ( tier * type ) .02 per plane in flight * number of members in flight

A flight of 3 tier 7's = 2.142.

Un-flighted the weight of 3 fighters is 2.1 thus placing flights into a higher priority above 3 equal fighters.

 

Now of course you need to understand that Match Maker is also hindered by the choices the players make

The players choose the tier and type of plane. Out of say 600 people on line that is a large variety

spread across 10 different tiers of 3 different styles of planes or 30 choices ( something like that ).

Yes I say 3 styles, I can not find any info if there is a difference between a fighter and multi-role.

 

So back to TEAM A and their 2.642 rating versus Team B's 2.6 rating.

 

This information is adapted from the blog Cruel Balance.

http://blog.worldofwarplanes.com/2014/03/25/cruel-balance-the-logic-of-matchmaking-and-balancing-teams-in-world-of-warplanes/

 

I hope this helps you understand game balance within the match maker.

So the next time you see an " UNBALANCED " match you will take the time to do a little math from the screen shot.

Then post it here so we can establish a tolerance level of  what vs what.

Will match maker create a match that is 3.2 versus 2.2 or maybe even a wide spread of 4 points vs 2.5 points.

 

Thanks for reading, happy hunting and good luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by losttwo, 06 February 2015 - 03:02 AM.


GiN_nTonic #2 Posted 06 February 2015 - 03:05 AM

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Gosh, I almost hate to say it - but will anyways.... in 1.4 MM we had a lot less of extreme randomness without long wait times.  (im bracing myself for a nice forum enema)  Qualifiers: I fully realize that WG can't bring back 1.4 MM, but I will reiterate that time-frames in 1.4 were very good, and the key is it made larger matches that served to also lessen the effect of certain inequities small matches can bring.  Secondary benefits to some of the programming in 1.4 existed that didn't seem to impede on wait times.  Some of those being:

 

1. Flight balance (when available) - 1.4 didn't hesitate to make a match if there was only a single flight in a tier group, but if there were 2 it put them on opposite sides.

2. Low tier noob protection - which was light, but existent.

3. Made sure people didn't play multiple matches in a row being -2 tier - again, just made those people wait for a match, not an entire group.

 

We can't have 1.4 back - but we can suggest WG start to morph our MM to something that had 1.4 features - with the explicit mandate we dont want to wait long at all for matches. 

 


Edited by GiNnTonic, 06 February 2015 - 03:19 AM.


losttwo #3 Posted 06 February 2015 - 03:10 AM

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View PostGiNnTonic, on 05 February 2015 - 10:05 PM, said:

Gosh, I almost hate to say it - but will anyways.... in 1.4 MM we had a lot less of extreme randomness without the long wait times.  (im bracing myself)

 

I feel you GiN.. I do miss it as well but like all things in the past they are but memories of better days.

Good thing there are books like " Who Moved my Cheese " to help adapt to change.


Edited by losttwo, 06 February 2015 - 03:11 AM.


Olaffe #4 Posted 06 February 2015 - 03:17 AM

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Hey Lost, I was searching at the bottom of your post for your video of overcoming.  I thought you were winning, being sarcastic with the cruel balance log.  I can see where you are coming from, however I believe player skill is op and flighted player skill is all the more op.  In your example a tier 8 player should be good to have ground his way to that plane.  A premium tier 8 plane and a player with a 30% win rate and 200 battles would probably crash into ground before hitting any ground targets.  I kinda like total randomness.  Sometimes I'm the fly, sometimes I'm the windscreen!!

 



GiN_nTonic #5 Posted 06 February 2015 - 03:26 AM

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View PostBillpatty, on 06 February 2015 - 03:17 AM, said:

Hey Lost, I was searching at the bottom of your post for your video of overcoming.  I thought you were winning, being sarcastic with the cruel balance log.  I can see where you are coming from, however I believe player skill is op and flighted player skill is all the more op.  In your example a tier 8 player should be good to have ground his way to that plane.  A premium tier 8 plane and a player with a 30% win rate and 200 battles would probably crash into ground before hitting any ground targets.  I kinda like total randomness.  Sometimes I'm the fly, sometimes I'm the windscreen!!

 

 

I think randomness to a degree is fine....in fact good.  I just think some qualifiers should be present in MM.  For instance, player skill should be 100% random.

 

100% (or total) randomness would mean a tier 1 fighter playing his/her first match could meet a tier 10 GA with over 10k in a 1v1 match.  So there are "factors" or qualifiers that should be implemented into MM, and so its really the finer points of "how random" to make matches we need to communicate to WG what we want.


Edited by GiNnTonic, 06 February 2015 - 03:28 AM.


Gang_Starr #6 Posted 06 February 2015 - 03:28 AM

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that same tier 6 multirole doesn't complain or think "wth" when he gets into a tier 4 match

Tenks


GiN_nTonic #7 Posted 06 February 2015 - 03:33 AM

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View PostGang_Starr, on 06 February 2015 - 03:28 AM, said:

that same tier 6 multirole doesn't complain or think "wth" when he gets into a tier 4 match

 

That is surely true, but Id personally rather play a tier 4 vs 6 than be a tier 6 playing tier 8 jets.  

 

At this point in our population I think 3 tier spread (2 tier differential) is here to stay for a long while - and that is fine in my book (and probably for Lost).  But having many matches were its only a couple tier 6s and couple tier 8s isnt cool.  It would be good to get back to 1.0-1.4 MM where in a game you would have multiple tier 6,7,8 in a match each side....so it was more palatable.  There were occasions where a tier might be skipped, but it was rare.  In our current MM skipping tiers is the norm.

 

I think (correct me if I am wrong) Lost is principally saying that we need to take the "edge" off our current MM.  Its a bit too rough.  I agree.

 

 


Edited by GiNnTonic, 06 February 2015 - 03:40 AM.


ParanoiaXtreme_PRX #8 Posted 06 February 2015 - 03:44 AM

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View PostBillpatty, on 06 February 2015 - 03:17 AM, said:

Hey Lost, I was searching at the bottom of your post for your video of overcoming.  I thought you were winning, being sarcastic with the cruel balance log.  I can see where you are coming from, however I believe player skill is op and flighted player skill is all the more op.  In your example a tier 8 player should be good to have ground his way to that plane.  A premium tier 8 plane and a player with a 30% win rate and 200 battles would probably crash into ground before hitting any ground targets.  I kinda like total randomness.  Sometimes I'm the fly, sometimes I'm the windscreen!!

 

 

yeah, flights are so OP... they should be banned

GiN_nTonic #9 Posted 06 February 2015 - 04:32 AM

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View PostMarith29, on 06 February 2015 - 03:44 AM, said:

 

yeah, flights are so OP... they should be banned

 

I know that isnt what Lost is saying.  Flights are an integral part to this game...and I personally enjoy being in flights and playing solo.


Mr_D_Duck #10 Posted 06 February 2015 - 05:06 AM

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Well ... well ... I must commend YOU on all the work and effort you put into showing and explaining (or trying to) how the current Matchmaker works, REALLY good job.

 

That however,  doesn't mean it is good or fair by using  IT'S  very simplistic numerical values which does not take into consideration relationships/attributes  between the matched planes and that is it's downfall.  It doesn't take into consideration the specific attributes of each plane and as we all know there is a huge difference between a Tier 1 and a Tier 3 with a Tier 3 having considerable more Armour, Firepower, Speed, Boost  & Rate of Climb.
 

Now right away someone is going to chant ... "but in my T-91 I have shot down Tier 2 and Tier 3 Heavy Fighters" ... and with this I fully agree ... but let us consider ... two equally skilled pilots in both planes and I can tell you the outcome ... but you already know the end result.

 

With the valuable information you provided the ANSWER is clear ... the calculation formula numbers which are used are completely inaccurate to create a Balanced or reasonably Fair match.

 

When a player Hits the Battle Button all his Planes Attributes ( numerically valued) are listed and known to the Matchmaker ... but as you point out they are not used ... ?

 

Further these already numerically valued attributes do not include Skill, or Number of Battles or Flights and they shouldn't be considered either. If someone wants to be in a Flight to wants to fly Solo that is their personal choice. 
 


 


Edited by Mr_D_Duck, 06 February 2015 - 05:07 AM.

CLOSED BETA -> 1008 ------ OPEN BETA -> 2891 ------ LIVE -> 6210 +

T1/5 Planes @ 306 flights - 61.76% {L.G.P. - Feb 2015} ----- T2/15 Planes @ 306 flights - "95% completed"

   T3/14 Planes |-----| T4/12 Planes |-----| T5/16 Planes |-----| T6/ 1 Plane (so far)

Still Here & Still playing, The Game - MY WAY !


scipionmk #11 Posted 06 February 2015 - 07:36 AM

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MM work as intended=as we ask for in our complaints. 

 

FAST-maybe too fast

3 tier spread

no balance

no noob friendly



losttwo #12 Posted 06 February 2015 - 10:11 AM

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View Postscipionmk, on 06 February 2015 - 02:36 AM, said:

MM work as intended=as we ask for in our complaints. 

 

FAST-maybe too fast

3 tier spread

no balance

no noob friendly

 

IN short this ^^^^^^ is exactly what I am saying.

 

Now in order to adjust anything we need to offer WG with a solution if we think something is broken.

First we have to establish something is broken using proof with in the current  games perimeters.

Give WG a possible direction rather than 200 complaints about the same thing.

 

Should flights have more weight added to them ? more than .0.02 ? I don't know.

I do know that an ME 410, F7F, Meteor can take down a ME 262.

I know that standard ammo works to take down a plane up to tier 8

 

From 1.5 to 1.6.2 the Match times were atrocious and almost made me stop playing.

I was playing more Playstation than World of warplanes.

 

Yes I wish for the 15 vs 15 matches and hope those will return soon.

Is the Match Maker currently waiting for 30 planes between 3 tiers or is it just dropping when 6 are in queue ?

Gray Wolf did a mass count in at tier 5 the other night and the result were consistent 15 vs 15 matches.

With equal flight vs flight on each side.

 

I check player stats after each match when I fly solo and find we have a large influx of new players, including the higher tiers.

To me this signifies growth.

We have even seen NEW people posting in the forums.

 

This post was simply designed to help anyone that wants to discuss Balance of matches and give a basic idea of how it is done.

 

 

 

 



dityboycom #13 Posted 05 July 2016 - 05:06 PM

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The balance is real.

losttwo #14 Posted 05 July 2016 - 10:52 PM

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WOW someone is reviving some old post that have become irrelevant....but what ever.





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