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Proposal for v2 of new MM


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Poll: did you play 0.4.1? If so, did you like it's MM better than the one now? (15 members have cast votes)

Did you play in 0.4.1 CBT?

  1. No (3 votes [20.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

  2. Yes (12 votes [80.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 80.00%

Did you like 0.4.1 MM (balanced but quick) or the current one (ultra fast but it's a Yahtzee toss for balance)?

  1. 0.4.1 was better (9 votes [60.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 60.00%

  2. Current one is better. (6 votes [40.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 40.00%

If you haven't played before launch, do you believe this current MM is best since launch or was another? Comment below which you thought was best.

  1. Current MM is best post launch. (9 votes [60.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 60.00%

  2. Another POST-LAUNCH MM was better. I'll post it in comments. (6 votes [40.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 40.00%

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Traurig_Yoda #21 Posted 18 January 2015 - 11:27 PM

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View PostSkywhaleExpress, on 18 January 2015 - 06:22 PM, said:

 

Give me actual logical reasons why this would fail, please people, not just "we were tired of long queues, now we don't care about imbalance we just want our fill of 10 second queues..."

 

This MM is fair because those circumstances are imposed on everyone, it does not single just Fred and make him suffer, everyone will find themselves in that situation, the difference is some of us wont cry we take our lumps on the downside and take our turn on the upside. The queue pops fast so you don't need to worry about stacking. the game is fair.


Edited by Traurig_Yoda, 18 January 2015 - 11:28 PM.


Traurig_Yoda #22 Posted 18 January 2015 - 11:34 PM

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Another thing folks don't understand is people can't remember their last 5 games much less last couple hundred, you will have time in the top, middle and bottom tiers, this will balance out over time, problem is some people think they should never see a rough match it should be a euphoric game session from log in to log out, well this is a war game not my little horses. 

Tonzzo #23 Posted 18 January 2015 - 11:44 PM

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View PostTraurig_Yoda, on 18 January 2015 - 11:27 PM, said:

 

 

Yup we all draw the short stick sometimes....  Thankfully we get a lot more sticks now....

 



 


obamaphone #24 Posted 18 January 2015 - 11:54 PM

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View PostSkywhaleExpress, on 18 January 2015 - 06:24 PM, said:

I don't care about people wanting to be OP top tier. I'm just wanting the best of both worlds. And in 0.4.1, we had matches starting in less than 2 minutes, and they were FULL, and were relatively BALANCED

 

i would agree that the mm is making decisions to fast and should wait a bit longer. But what you have is a laundry list here. And 3 threads down someone else has one and 2 threads after that  another guy has his ideas on how the mm should work. I respect the fact you are only trying to help the game with your suggestions and have been one of the foremost helpful people in this game to everyone. So i mean no disrespect  to you or your o/p. I am just saying we have had this mm for only a few days and there is already 6 threads about how it should be changed.

GeorgePatton #25 Posted 18 January 2015 - 11:55 PM

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View PostTraurig_Yoda, on 18 January 2015 - 06:09 PM, said:

No they cannot, battles pop to quickly and you cannot determine if you'll make top tier, only way is be in tier ten, turning off flights will not 'help' anything.

 

I've seen today 4 instances of top tier pilots(t6) crying that there was a flight two tiers under them(t4), you cannot fix stupid, dumbing down the game for them IS NOT the answer.

 

 

Well, I'm talking about a couple of flights of 3x tier 9 fighters I've seen. This really negatively effects the MM as it will go with 4 tier 9s in the queue. This means that it will take the flight of 3, put it on one team with a tier 8 GA, and then make a team of 1x IL-40 and a couple of tier 8 lights and a heavy or something like that. Sometimes 3x GAs (1x IL-40 and 2x IL-20) and a single fighter.

 

Granted, this only happens at tier 8-9-10, but it is still a consideration. Mostly this exploit imbalances aircraft types, but it can also adversely affect the tier count per team as well.

 

 

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SkywhaleExpress #26 Posted 18 January 2015 - 11:57 PM

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View PostTonzzo, on 18 January 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

 

 

I like it however what about this?  SEE RED  Truth is You cant have a spread without it spreading both ways....   :unsure:

I was on my iPhone, and was trying to be quick. I'm not typing to ignorant folks. 

You're correct in assuming the items in red. That's the point. Tier one did and should have the only protection of 1 tier spread. Tier 2 did and would have an occasional chance of seeing tier 4, etc. 

 

I was speaking to the intelligent crowd, because those are the ones whom can undersrand complex reasoning and "balancing."

View PostTraurig_Yoda, on 18 January 2015 - 05:27 PM, said:

 

Since you answered in my quote, this looks empty.. But I know you know what you said. 

You of all people know that I don't care top or bottom. Heck, I fly skywhales as fighters and I used to take F3F's into tier 6-10 battles. I'm just in favor of having a ladder system of learning. Tier 1 is brand new, and they should stay there for 30 battles or more per plane line. The.

 

Tier 2 starts breaking them into the reality that they won't always be relatively equal tiered.

Tier 3 starts learning that they have to be aware of differences in aircraft performance, and adjust accordingly. 

Tier 4+, and you know you're facing more difficult aircraft competition. 

 

No skill based, no battle count based, none of that. If someone is In that big of a hurry to get into their Mustang or their F-86 or whatever, then they deserve the challenge of a two tier spread and all that comes with it. 

View PostTraurig_Yoda, on 18 January 2015 - 05:34 PM, said:

Another thing folks don't understand is people can't remember their last 5 games much less last couple hundred, you will have time in the top, middle and bottom tiers, this will balance out over time, problem is some people think they should never see a rough match it should be a euphoric game session from log in to log out, well this is a war game not my little horses. 

 

While you're right, there still is a learning period, and a big reason why we flopped on the launch was trifold: Too much tampering with the MM that historically worked, adding altitude compression, and dispersion/damage debuffs. Had those not occurred, we wouldn't be where we are.

 

My proposal would bring us back to the two tier spread norm that we had in 0.4.1, the most widely accepted and loved patch any of the beta testers have voted on.

 

This isnt a step back toward the 1.5-1.6 MM's... It's a step back to the quicker and smoother running MM we all remember from when two tier spreads were common.



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Tonzzo #27 Posted 19 January 2015 - 12:08 AM

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No doubt...  The ones that I most worry about are the ones that brought forth the last MM that failed....  Would you put them on the "Intelligent" list?  :trollface:



 


SkywhaleExpress #28 Posted 19 January 2015 - 12:08 AM

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View Postobamaphone, on 18 January 2015 - 05:54 PM, said:

 

i would agree that the mm is making decisions to fast and should wait a bit longer. But what you have is a laundry list here. And 3 threads down someone else has one and 2 threads after that  another guy has his ideas on how the mm should work. I respect the fact you are only trying to help the game with your suggestions and have been one of the foremost helpful people in this game to everyone. So i mean no disrespect  to you or your o/p. I am just saying we have had this mm for only a few days and there is already 6 threads about how it should be changed.

Think about that... You said 6 threads about it in he first few days..... That's proof enough that the idea was great in terms of making quicker queue times... But the change was implemented with VERY LITTLE forethought... And there was much disagreement with he premise of just playing Yahtzee with the MM.

View PostGeorgePatton, on 18 January 2015 - 05:55 PM, said:

 

Well, I'm talking about a couple of flights of 3x tier 9 fighters I've seen. This really negatively effects the MM as it will go with 4 tier 9s in the queue. This means that it will take the flight of 3, put it on one team with a tier 8 GA, and then make a team of 1x IL-40 and a couple of tier 8 lights and a heavy or something like that. Sometimes 3x GAs (1x IL-40 and 2x IL-20) and a single fighter.

 

Granted, this only happens at tier 8-9-10, but it is still a consideration. Mostly this exploit imbalances aircraft types, but it can also adversely affect the tier count per team as well.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn

That's because the MM is playing Yahtzee. Flights shouldn't be punished for an ill advised MM change. Granted, quicker matches are great, but....

 

 

Can an anyone here give me a LOGICAL explanation as to what was wrong with the 0.4.1 MM? See, the way I remember it was that most of us at that time were for leaving the THEN CURRENT MM alone, and people began whining about tier 2's seeing tier4s and 3's 5's, and 4's 6's etc.... And then whining about mismatched planes and then finally about flights. WG tried TOO HARD to appease a very small but highly vocal group of whiners... And that's why we ended up with 20+ minute wait times... With double the population we had in 0.4.1.

 

Literally, we had 45-90 second queues (sometimes longer, but not usually) and relatively balanced matches... WITH LESS  POPULATION.... The difference? 2 tier spreads were common. That's the factor that people have to come to terms with. Unless we have the kind of population WoT has, we can't expect to limit the game to 1 tier soreads. 

 

But we can balance aircraft type and flights, and still have reasonably under 120 second queues.


Edited by SkywhaleExpress, 19 January 2015 - 12:10 AM.


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SkywhaleExpress #29 Posted 19 January 2015 - 12:09 AM

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View PostTonzzo, on 18 January 2015 - 06:08 PM, said:

No doubt...  The ones that I most worry about are the ones that brought forth the last MM that failed....  Would you put them on the "Intelligent" list?  :trollface:

 

No... I would put them on the "you showed up and you even kicked the ball" trophy list LOL.


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ArrowZ_ #30 Posted 19 January 2015 - 12:13 AM

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You're forgetting to mention that the population back in beta was higher than it is now, hence why that 0.4.1 MM works.

 

This MM that we have now compensates for the miserably low player base numbers in NA. Quick ques but small battles. A small price to pay for a crappy population. A trade off I'll take any day.

 

The only thing that that is a feasible fix for this current MM is increasing the battle size numbers without touching the balancing mechanics. If we can get back to those 15v15 without increasing que times too much, this region will be on the right path to growing a healthy player base.

 

What WG should do then is open up more opportunities to advertise wowp NA (or 3 regions in general) so our region can grow to what we once had in the 2k range. They really should start with steam. Best exposure for any game imo. The timing has to be right. If they time this wrong, wowp will have bad reviews and we'll just go back to square one.


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SkywhaleExpress #31 Posted 19 January 2015 - 12:27 AM

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Also remember, folks.... Nothing is perfect.... But we can have a return to smooth. Currently, we are still not smooth... We are rapid... It's different than smooth.

 

For example, I'm currently hypothyroid due to a thyroid ablation in late 2008. If my meds aren't dosed high enough, I can be quite sluggish, gain weight, and generally not feel well. If they over dose my meds, I could begin losing weight (only good side effect) and begin having hyperthyroid symptoms even though that tissue is dead....

 

When I was hyper thyroid, I was skinny, like I went from 192 to 172 in less than 10 days when I was first diagnosed. I'd go for 199 from my current 243, but I Would of suffer tachycardia (high heart rate) and high blood pressure issues and most terribly.... And many of my fellow WoWP players have seen this... I'd have a terribad temper and high spikes of rage. 

 

But I wouldn't feel sick or any malaise/etc. only the people around me would suffer.... Like, literally, I could have been dismissed from my clan and my wife could have left me, if I hadn't gotten on Zoloft and then ultimately balanced on thyroid meds, with more frequent checkups (6 weeks instead of the generalized 3-6 month checkups)....

 

. Well, that's what the game needs... It needs a healthy management of it's "thyroid" or its MM. Our old way was effective and smooth... Our 1.4-1.6 (last several months) have been ineffective and sluggish, as if hypothyroid... Now, the brand new MM is like the hyperactive thyroid patient who is completely off his meds (that actually happened with me and I had to be hospitalized) .... Way to rapid and still not smooth and DEFINITEY NOT effective or efficient... And least of all balanced. 

 

Its not really about winning or losing, it's about the semblance of having a chance to compete... Skill aside. You see, the skill should be the thing that separates the winners from the losers... Not the fact that the game throws 3 tier 7 ILs against 3 tier 8 heavies.

 

Just food for thought. 

 

 

 



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SkywhaleExpress #32 Posted 19 January 2015 - 12:28 AM

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View PostArrowZ_, on 18 January 2015 - 06:13 PM, said:

You're forgetting to mention that the population back in beta was higher than it is now, hence why that 0.4.1 MM works.

 

This MM that we have now compensates for the miserably low player base numbers in NA. Quick ques but small battles. A small price to pay for a crappy population. A trade off I'll take any day.

 

The only thing that that is a feasible fix for this current MM is increasing the battle size numbers without touching the balancing mechanics. If we can get back to those 15v15 without increasing que times too much, this region will be on the right path to growing a healthy player base.

 

What WG should do then is open up more opportunities to advertise wowp NA (or 3 regions in general) so our region can grow to what we once had in the 2k range. They really should start with steam. Best exposure for any game imo. The timing has to be right. If they time this wrong, wowp will have bad reviews and we'll just go back to square one.

You're not only wrong, but you weren't here for 4.1... That was CLOSED BETA!! And the population was lower.



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ArrowZ_ #33 Posted 19 January 2015 - 12:47 AM

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Still beta alex. Sure it was a white lie but opinion is opinion. And just because I wasn't present in CBT doesn't mean my post isn't valid as a OBT player.

 

Changing the mechanics of the MM as it is now & implementing more balance is not the way to go. I don't see how that will help our region, especially with a population well below 1k.


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SkywhaleExpress #34 Posted 19 January 2015 - 01:05 AM

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View PostArrowZ_, on 18 January 2015 - 06:47 PM, said:

Still beta alex. Sure it was a white lie but opinion is opinion. And just because I wasn't present in CBT doesn't mean my post isn't valid as a OBT player.

 

Changing the mechanics of the MM as it is now & implementing more balance is not the way to go. I don't see how that will help our region, especially with a population well below 1k.

You're missing the point of where the MM made full matches under 2 minutes AND balanced relatively well. That's what is important. Quick and often lopsided isn't going to help it's going to hurt more.



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Chuck_norris10 #35 Posted 19 January 2015 - 01:10 AM

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View PostTraurig_Yoda, on 18 January 2015 - 04:34 PM, said:

Another thing folks don't understand is people can't remember their last 5 games much less last couple hundred, you will have time in the top, middle and bottom tiers, this will balance out over time, problem is some people think they should never see a rough match it should be a euphoric game session from log in to log out, well this is a war game not my little horses. 

 

Speak for yourself buddy. Some of us are cursed with being able to remember everything including the 15 cents a childhood pal owes us from 45 years ago for a saturday matnee admission for a John wayne black and white war movie.:)

 

 


 

ArrowZ_ #36 Posted 19 January 2015 - 01:15 AM

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Well I'm basing my opinion from what we currently see right now on our region in terms of population. If you think a few more tweaks to the MM mechanics to generate a bit more balance is fine, then more power to you alex to voice your suggestion. 

 

In my view, All that is needed as a quick fix to the already fast MM, is to increase the battle size numbers (as already stated on my first post) so we can get back to 15v15 with fast que times. Sure there's little to no balance in this current MM but when has the MM ever brought any fair balance to the table? 1.4 MM was just as botched as the previous versions.

 

The important thing is if what makes people happy is faster que times & bigger sized battles, then that's all WG/persha really needs to do. The failures of this company started with tinkering too much of the mechanics & slapping a released version of it without proper testing & feedback from the players. 


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Johnny_Wishbone #37 Posted 19 January 2015 - 01:17 AM

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I don't know why everyone loves 15v15s.  In this game and in Tanks, they are very crowded and very bloody; they consist largely of two mobs charging each other with clubs and trying to beat each other senseless.  In tanks, 15v15 matches prevent battles of maneuver; there are so many big guns that reconaissance is, for the most part, not rewarded, and the best strategy is simply to charge en-masse.  In this game, the issue is similar.  There's no chance to feel out the opposition at all, just, there he is, blast 'im!  I find that 10v10 is a much better match size in both games.  But hey, what do I know?

SkywhaleExpress #38 Posted 19 January 2015 - 01:19 AM

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Well, we could always make tier 1-3 go against tier 7-10!!!


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ArrowZ_ #39 Posted 19 January 2015 - 01:20 AM

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Because 15v15 equals more kills therefore rewards more exp. More things to shoot at = more exp to gain. And ofcourse more profits in credits.

 

Besides it's the maximum no. of players filled on each side. WG/persha could increase to 20v20 or 50v50 or 100v100 for all I care OR they could reduce it to 10v10 just to your liking. The important thing is the more targets you have to shoot at, the more damage you rack up & kills you get, the more exp+credits you earn. It really is that simple & is the main reason why the majority love large sized battles.


Edited by ArrowZ_, 19 January 2015 - 01:29 AM.

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Johnny_Wishbone #40 Posted 19 January 2015 - 01:21 AM

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Might be interesting, like a helicopter gunship vs. a fighter jet.  One has all the guns and is very fast, the other is very vulnerable, but extremely maneuverable.






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