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Proposal for v2 of new MM


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Poll: did you play 0.4.1? If so, did you like it's MM better than the one now? (15 members have cast votes)

Did you play in 0.4.1 CBT?

  1. No (3 votes [20.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

  2. Yes (12 votes [80.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 80.00%

Did you like 0.4.1 MM (balanced but quick) or the current one (ultra fast but it's a Yahtzee toss for balance)?

  1. 0.4.1 was better (9 votes [60.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 60.00%

  2. Current one is better. (6 votes [40.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 40.00%

If you haven't played before launch, do you believe this current MM is best since launch or was another? Comment below which you thought was best.

  1. Current MM is best post launch. (9 votes [60.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 60.00%

  2. Another POST-LAUNCH MM was better. I'll post it in comments. (6 votes [40.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 40.00%

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SkywhaleExpress #1 Posted 18 January 2015 - 09:40 PM

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Here's my simplified proposal for making balanced* matches while still keeping the queue at less than 3 minutes.

 

1. We need to have the "so-called" sandbox. Where we went wrong with it, however, was that we made it for all the lower tiers of 1-5. Instead, it should be for the first tier and then start at occasionally to commonly seeing two tiers higher.

 

2. We need to balance flights and aircraft... Not by skill or battle count, but by themselves. two flights of 3, they go to separate teams. If one team has two IL's the other does... If the one team has three heavies, that too... Etc.

 

3. We need to make exceptions only for when a player has been in the queue for more than 3 minutes, they get the very next match.

 

4. Tiers that face each other should be as follows:

 

I vs I and II tops.

II can obviously see ones, but can also see III's and occasionally IV's.

III can see III and IV and occasionally see V's.

IV's see IVs and V's and occasionally VI's. 

V's can see V's and VI's and sometimes VII's. 

VI's can see VI and VII and occasionally no more than 3 tier VIII's. Must have 3 VIII on their team too.

VII can see VII and VIII and occasionally 3 IX's, as long as their team has 3 IX's.

VIII is unprotected. By this tier, it should regularly see up to tier 10, AS long as both teams have 10's.

 

Thoughts?

 

 


Edited by SkywhaleExpress, 19 January 2015 - 01:49 AM.


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Chuck_norris10 #2 Posted 18 January 2015 - 09:52 PM

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Nice and simple,works for me.

 

 


 

theponja #3 Posted 18 January 2015 - 09:54 PM

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I can agree only in the first point when the 1.6 MM comes my tough was the most balanced MM until date but it was painfully slow.  If you add rules again the MM is going to be slow with our low population.

One more thing could be increase the minimum size for a battle to 5 vs 5 to avoid small battles but I really enjoy the actual MM even I'm the wrong side sometimes.


Edited by theponja, 18 January 2015 - 09:56 PM.


x_WARHOG_x #4 Posted 18 January 2015 - 09:57 PM

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Leave the MM alone.........

 

Im all for new ideas but for now lets just step back and take a hands off approach I mean this is how we got the crap MM we had, that being said you have some good ideas the only one I would suggest is maybe letting the MM wait just a few mins. more to make a match to get the game size a little bigger......:honoring:


Edited by x_WARHOG_x, 18 January 2015 - 09:58 PM.

Sneaking up on your six.....................


ParanoiaXtreme_PRX #5 Posted 18 January 2015 - 10:03 PM

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yeah, i was just in a match we had

 

my team:

IX(flighted)

VIII

VII

VII

VI(flighted)

 

enemy team: 

 

IX(flighted)

IX(flighted)

IX(flighted)

VIII

VIII

 

i think something here is messed up...:(


Edited by Marith29, 18 January 2015 - 10:08 PM.


gybob #6 Posted 18 January 2015 - 10:07 PM

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3+ minutes for a 1v1 was just too long, I am very happy that the MM has been adjusted for us. That said 15 seconds and a 3v3 may well be too short.

 

If MM would hold up to the 1 minute mark or so and then fill the battle and make it 8v8 or larger would be awesome.



Chuck_norris10 #7 Posted 18 January 2015 - 10:13 PM

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Humbling experience getting wasted 3 games in a row in my bsh by a tsh-3.:D

I'm enjoying the mm right now because planes are not pigeon holed into a certain role.

People are flying them in ways they did not before the patch and it's quite refreshing and has made for many crazy battles.


 

 


 

woofman34 #8 Posted 18 January 2015 - 10:13 PM

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How can you give an opinion on MM alex when you cant even play the game , you told us you don't have a working computer  , I think we are going to have name you Heh number 2 :trollface:

SkywhaleExpress #9 Posted 18 January 2015 - 10:14 PM

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View Posttheponja, on 18 January 2015 - 03:54 PM, said:

I can agree only in the first point when the 1.6 MM comes my tough was the most balanced MM until date but it was painfully slow.  If you add rules again the MM is going to be slow with our low population.

One more thing could be increase the minimum size for a battle to 5 vs 5 to avoid small battles but I really enjoy the actual MM even I'm the wrong side sometimes.

 

We had a smaller population and better MM in CBT 0.4.1 which was quite similar to what I'm proposing. We didn't have tier 1s facing tier 3's then, and we even had tier 7s facing 10s.... BUT, flight mechanics allowed it back then, due to tier 3s being able to outmaneuver tier 5s and be at the same altitudes.

 

Which leads me to my next proposal (I'll post it later in a different thread).... Which is to abolish the altitude compression and dispersion. These two things really separated the skilled from the unskilled. Before OBT's introduction of these two mechanics, there were only two maybe three people that I can recall with above a 75% WR that also had well over 2500 battles. These two mechanics actually made it easier for us skilled players to take advantage of an already powerful system.... Altitude= dominance in air to air combat. Even when it comes to two TnB planes, such as two A7M's or two La-7's... The higher one has the advantage. 

 

Thats not to say that altitude alone makes 100% of the different in A2A combat... But it definitely gives the edge, and by that, I mean gives an automatic 65% or higher chance of winning that 1 on 1 engagement. 

 

Those two mechanics saw far more players leave this game than 1.5's super long MM. Think I'm wrong? Then why did 1000-1300 turn into only 750-900 during prime time post 1.4, and post launch 3k+ quickly turned into 1750 or less?



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SkywhaleExpress #10 Posted 18 January 2015 - 10:21 PM

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View Postwoofman34, on 18 January 2015 - 04:13 PM, said:

How can you give an opinion on MM alex when you cant even play the game , you told us you don't have a working computer  , I think we are going to have name you Heh number 2 :trollface:

Because I keep very up to date on this game, and watch livestreams. Unable to fly currently doesn't mean unable to see. Also, unlike Heh, I've had at least 1 and more than 50 battles in the last 30 days. I also know that you're playfully trolling haha.

View PostMarith29, on 18 January 2015 - 04:03 PM, said:

yeah, i was just in a match we had

 

my team:

IX(flighted)

VIII

VII

VII

VI(flighted)

 

enemy team: 

 

IX(flighted)

IX(flighted)

IX(flighted)

VIII

VIII

 

i think something here is messed up...:(

This because the tier 9 and VI players troll flighted and a flight is treated as the same tier as the highest tiered flight member. This was put in place because they used to accidentally allow tier 10s into low tier matches. I helped extensively test this and feedback to the then community management team. :)



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Johnny_Wishbone #11 Posted 18 January 2015 - 10:48 PM

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Leave it alone, Alex.  There are so many degrees of restriction in your tier scheme alone that implementing only THAT would make for worse wait times than we had before.

 

As someone else said, the 1.6.3 MM was very fair, but we just don't have the population for it.



Traurig_Yoda #12 Posted 18 January 2015 - 10:59 PM

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View PostJohnny_Wishbone, on 18 January 2015 - 05:48 PM, said:

Leave it alone, Alex.  There are so many degrees of restriction in your tier scheme alone that implementing only THAT would make for worse wait times than we had before.

 

As someone else said, the 1.6.3 MM was very fair, but we just don't have the population for it.

 

I agree I love the MM as it is.

Mr_D_Duck #13 Posted 18 January 2015 - 11:00 PM

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View PostSkywhaleExpress, on 18 January 2015 - 02:40 PM, said:

 

 

Here's my simplified proposal for making balanced* matches while still keeping the queue at less than 3 minutes.

 

1. We need to have the "so-called" sandbox. Where we went wrong with it, however, was that we made it for all the lower tiers of 1-5. Instead, it should be for the first tier and then start at occasionally to commonly seeing two tiers higher.

 

2. We need to balance flights and aircraft... Not by skill or battle count, but by themselves. two flights of 3, they go to separate teams. If one team has two IL's the other does... If the one team has three heavies, that too... Etc.

 

3. We need to make exceptions only for when a player has been in the queue for more than 3 minutes, they get the very next match.

 

4. Tiers that face each other should be as follows:

 

I vs I and II tops.

II can obviously see ones, but can also see III's and occasionally IV's.

III can see III and IV and occasionally see V's.

IV's see IVs and V's and occasionally VI's.

V's can see V's and VI's and sometimes VII's.

VI's can see VI and VII and occasionally no more than 3 tier VIII's. Must have 3 VIII on their team too.

VII can see VII and VIII and occasionally 3 IX's, as long as their team has 3 IX's.

VIII is unprotected. By this tier, it should regularly see up to tier 10, AS long as both teams have 10's.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

While I appreciate your thinking on this even I have to disagree.

All the M/M has to do is restrict Tier I    to    ONLY Tier I planes with NO Flights  ... open to everyone ... period !


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GeorgePatton #14 Posted 18 January 2015 - 11:03 PM

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One thing I can think of right now that would fix most of the issues I've seen with the MM - turn off flights until population can support a regular MM.

 

I am not against flights. I think flights are an important aspect of an MMO, but at this point, they're messing up a system that is designed for an emergency. There will always be those guys that insist on flighting in high tiers to troll the MM, and while it's sad, as long as flights are allowed, there's nothing that can be done about it.

 

IMO, flights at this point should be considered as a broken part of the MM and should be turned off just like some of the other MM features until we have the population to balance it out.

 

Again, I am not against flights - I just feel that at the moment they can exploit a very fragile 'fix' for a very large issue.

 

 

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Traurig_Yoda #15 Posted 18 January 2015 - 11:03 PM

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View PostMr_D_Duck, on 18 January 2015 - 06:00 PM, said:

 

 

While I appreciate your thinking on this even I have to disagree.

All the M/M has to do is restrict Tier I    to    ONLY Tier I planes with NO Flights  ... open to everyone ... period !

 

this is no good either, noobs should be allowed to flight up and learn how to work as a team, this is like it or not a team game.

Traurig_Yoda #16 Posted 18 January 2015 - 11:09 PM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 18 January 2015 - 06:03 PM, said:

 

Again, I am not against flights - I just feel that at the moment they can exploit a very fragile 'fix' for a very large issue.

 

No they cannot, battles pop to quickly and you cannot determine if you'll make top tier, only way is be in tier ten, turning off flights will not 'help' anything.

 

I've seen today 4 instances of top tier pilots(t6) crying that there was a flight two tiers under them(t4), you cannot fix stupid, dumbing down the game for them IS NOT the answer.

 



obamaphone #17 Posted 18 January 2015 - 11:16 PM

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View PostJohnny_Wishbone, on 18 January 2015 - 05:48 PM, said:

Leave it alone, Alex.  There are so many degrees of restriction in your tier scheme alone that implementing only THAT would make for worse wait times than we had before.

 

As someone else said, the 1.6.3 MM was very fair, but we just don't have the population for it.

 

View PostTraurig_Yoda, on 18 January 2015 - 05:59 PM, said:

 

I agree I love the MM as it is.

 

+1 You can't please all of the people  all of the time. The matchmaker is not perfect by no means but give me a break. this is how we got the last junk mm system. Constant whining about people wanting it exactly "their" way. Suck it up and accept the fact you might have to loose a game or 2. This system is a dam sight better than the one we have been stuck with for months. Sheesh!   enough already.The truth of the matter is now some people are mad they cant jump in their favorite op plane  and dominate a tier match after match.

SkywhaleExpress #18 Posted 18 January 2015 - 11:22 PM

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View PostJohnny_Wishbone, on 18 January 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

Leave it alone, Alex.  There are so many degrees of restriction in your tier scheme alone that implementing only THAT would make for worse wait times than we had before.

 

As someone else said, the 1.6.3 MM was very fair, but we just don't have the population for it.

 

There are no serious degrees of restriction here. This is clearly as close to the MM we had in CBT with less than 400 on during prime time. 

 

While making the game super open to making quick matches is good... It's not good to have matches where one team is all fighters/heavies and the other team is all IL's. Either the ILs would be gods of warplanes and win or the the heavies/fighters would be really terrible in order for the ILs to win...

 

Like it or not, horribly imbalanced matches are what caused the MM issues to begone with... But whiners took it way further than it needed to be. My proposal would simply revert it to as close to 0.4.1 as we can without actually rolling the game back to that patch.  

 

Give me actual logical reasons why this would fail, please people, not just "we were tired of long queues, now we don't care about imbalance we just want our fill of 10 second queues..."

 

If anything, I feel this proposal should be ironed out and then tested. 



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SkywhaleExpress #19 Posted 18 January 2015 - 11:24 PM

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View Postobamaphone, on 18 January 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:

 

 

+1 You can't please all of the people  all of the time. The matchmaker is not perfect by no means but give me a break. this is how we got the last junk mm system. Constant whining about people wanting it exactly "their" way. Suck it up and accept the fact you might have to loose a game or 2. This system is a dam sight better than the one we have been stuck with for months. Sheesh!   enough already.The truth of the matter is now some people are mad they cant jump in their favorite op plane  and dominate a tier match after match.

I don't care about people wanting to be OP top tier. I'm just wanting the best of both worlds. And in 0.4.1, we had matches starting in less than 2 minutes, and they were FULL, and were relatively BALANCED



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Tonzzo #20 Posted 18 January 2015 - 11:26 PM

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View PostSkywhaleExpress, on 18 January 2015 - 09:40 PM, said:

 

 

Here's my simplified proposal for making balanced* matches while still keeping the queue at less than 3 minutes.

 

1. We need to have the "so-called" sandbox. Where we went wrong with it, however, was that we made it for all the lower tiers of 1-5. Instead, it should be for the first tier and then start at occasionally to commonly seeing two tiers higher.

 

2. We need to balance flights and aircraft... Not by skill or battle count, but by themselves. two flights of 3, they go to separate teams. If one team has two IL's the other does... If the one team has three heavies, that too... Etc.

 

3. We need to make exceptions only for when a player has been in the queue for more than 3 minutes, they get the very next match.

 

4. Tiers that face each other should be as follows:

 

I vs I and II tops.

II can obviously see ones, but can also see III's and occasionally IV's.

III can see III and IV and occasionally see V's. They would also see Tier II's since II can also see III's and occasionally IV's

IV's see IVs and V's and occasionally VI's. IV's would see II's and III's because of the prior rules

V's can see V's and VI's and sometimes VII's. V's would see III's and IV's because of the prior rules

VI's can see VI and VII and occasionally no more than 3 tier VIII's. Must have 3 VIII on their team too. VI's would still see IV and V because of prior rules.

VII can see VII and VIII and occasionally 3 IX's, as long as their team has 3 IX's. VII's will still get V's and VI's

VIII is unprotected. By this tier, it should regularly see up to tier 10, AS long as both teams have 10's. VIII's will still get VI's and VII's

 

Thoughts?  In the end it is pretty much what we already have.....

 

 

 

 

I like it however what about this?  SEE RED  Truth is You cant have a spread without it spreading both ways....   :unsure:



 





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