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CT 1.6 Matchmaker


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Poll: Matchmaker (28 members have cast votes)

Has the number of ground attack and heavy fighters been less excessive per team?

  1. Yes, there is a more proportionate number of each plane class now. (7 votes [25.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

  2. There still seemed to be more HF/GAs per team, compared to fighters. (2 votes [7.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.14%

  3. It was impossible to tell due to the low population on the test server. (19 votes [67.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 67.86%

Did you see a more even spread of tiers across teams?

  1. There was a balance between the number of planes 1 and 2 tiers lower than the top tier planes in battle. (19 votes [67.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 67.86%

  2. There seemed to be more planes 1 tier lower than the top tier planes in battle, and less planes 2 tiers lower. (8 votes [28.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 28.57%

  3. There were still more planes 2 tiers lower than the top tier planes during battle, versus the number of planes 1 tier lower. (1 vote [3.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.57%

Did flights appear to be better balanced?

  1. In the flights that I saw on the Common Test server, the Matchmaker attempted to balance them out as best as possible. (5 votes [17.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.86%

  2. In some battles I noticed an uneven number of flights per team, where an even number of flights could have been created. (3-to-1 or more) (3 votes [10.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.71%

  3. I was unable to test this on the Common Test server due to the lack of number of flights. (20 votes [71.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 71.43%

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Carl_the_Cuttlefish #21 Posted 15 October 2014 - 02:30 PM

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View PostFuzzybrainlizard, on 15 October 2014 - 06:35 AM, said:

It is really hard to test the test server with a low turnout.  I waited 15 minutes for matches in the higher tiers last night (EST).   Is MM keeping beginners and vets together?  Could WG put a flash screen when loading the regular game advertising the test?   I rarely read the launch screen on the regular game.

 

If you could play at 11AM Eastern, that's when all the fun is. It gets up to like 800 people in the test server. There are some benifits about my wacky college schedule :D

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BrushWolf #22 Posted 15 October 2014 - 04:24 PM

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View PostS01836775, on 14 October 2014 - 10:08 PM, said:

I played at almost 800 pop this morning and the MM worked pretty dang well. No complaints, but it did get pretty messy when the pop was at like 300 last night.

 

I don't think it is working that well. With 12 to 15 of your tier along with the same in the next two tiers in the que you shouldn't be seeing 3 vs 3. The MM is trying way to hard to make a balanced match and in the end it is making worse matches than the original MM from launch.

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MARS_REVENANT #23 Posted 15 October 2014 - 06:54 PM

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I have been part of several battles where I am low tier, but the battle is mostly populated with higher tier.

 

FOr example 10v10 there were 9 t8 on each side and 1 t7 on each side.

 

This happens 3 battles in a row.  When I tiered up in my t8 plane, it continued to happen, battle was mostly t8, but only 1 or 2 t7 on each side.


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BrushWolf #24 Posted 15 October 2014 - 07:04 PM

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View PostTHEMARCO1979, on 15 October 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

I have been part of several battles where I am low tier, but the battle is mostly populated with higher tier.

 

FOr example 10v10 there were 9 t8 on each side and 1 t7 on each side.

 

This happens 3 battles in a row.  When I tiered up in my t8 plane, it continued to happen, battle was mostly t8, but only 1 or 2 t7 on each side.

 

Yeah, I am seeing that a lot. For example you are in a tier 6 in an 8 vs 8 and there will be 6 tier 7's and 2 tier 6's. It will do this when there are over a hundred in the que and you are flying a tier that has a lot, 12 or more, of your tier in the que. I don't feel this version of the MM should go forward and going back to an earlier version is in order.

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Cuesta_Rey #25 Posted 16 October 2014 - 03:56 PM

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It was great to see how much better the Bf-109F performed while playing on the test server. However, I began to notice a pattern yesterday, then decided to test it out more fully today. Over more than a dozen matches when I queued up in tier 6, I was automatically thrown into a match with tier 7's. No matter how many planes were in queue in the various tiers, and there were many, tier 6 got thrown into a match with tier 7's every single time, without fail. Not once, not one single match was I ever in a mix of just tier 6's, or a combination of 6's and 5's. Not once! It seems to me this must be by design. No way this can be random or circumstance. Don't know if it has something to do with player stats or what, but if this test indicates the way it will be in the future, anytime you fly a tier 6 and there are tier 7's in queue, you will be matched against tier 7's.

Is this part of the new MM design?



Fuzzybrainlizard #26 Posted 16 October 2014 - 04:38 PM

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I noticed a well balanced pattern to MM now.  You don't see in a 10v10 match 7 GAs or 7 HFs.  The most I saw last evening were 2-4 on each team.  I am wondering if this balancing is having an impact in other ways though, as doublespook mentions.  There are 4 HF and GAs mixed on the screen shot.  If the other slots are allotted to LF and   the new multi-purpose, would this mean that you may see more 2 tier spreads in the game for balance.  And if skills are also in the mix, then this may compound the tier spreads for each match.  I did notice a few 2 tier spreads last evening.

 

All in all a move in the right direction for the MM..



BrushWolf #27 Posted 16 October 2014 - 05:08 PM

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The MM is still making matches with mostly one tier, i.e. 8 tier 6 and 2 tier 5 on each side or even worse 2 high tier and 1 lower tier. It is doing this when there are 35 to 40 in a three tier spread. Please go back to a MM that makes fuller matches with the balance rules that the newer MM's have used.

Edited by BrushWolf, 17 October 2014 - 04:37 PM.

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DS_61_3 #28 Posted 17 October 2014 - 02:29 AM

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Still seams broken to me! entered standard battle in tier 6 multirole fighter and 12 planes in tier 6 when I fist entered. Waited 4-5 min. just to see the MM take 4 tier 6 and 2 tier sevens. After 15 min. and this happening 4 times finally got into a 2 v 2 battle. What a joke! This was the worst case for me but even when not having to wait as long MM still only takes half the possible planes it could have.

Sigifrid #29 Posted 17 October 2014 - 04:11 AM

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Something weird to note about the MM: Class distribution seems to be as equal as possible; however, the queue often leaves numerous players behind.  For instance, for the MM test that Jman was running we tried to queue up tier 9's, with 2 IL-40's and mostly normal fighters on the rest.  Rather than pull everyone, it would take 4 at a time (for 2v2's), culminating in a 1v1 for the 2 il40's after 9 minutes.  This just seems awkward when the teams probably could have been made larger.  Intentionally limiting the number of players per team like this makes it very difficult to get a decent/fun game going.
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ViolentAngel #30 Posted 17 October 2014 - 06:17 AM

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View PostSigifrid, on 16 October 2014 - 11:11 PM, said:

Something weird to note about the MM: Class distribution seems to be as equal as possible; however, the queue often leaves numerous players behind.  For instance, for the MM test that Jman was running we tried to queue up tier 9's, with 2 IL-40's and mostly normal fighters on the rest.  Rather than pull everyone, it would take 4 at a time (for 2v2's), culminating in a 1v1 for the 2 il40's after 9 minutes.  This just seems awkward when the teams probably could have been made larger.  Intentionally limiting the number of players per team like this makes it very difficult to get a decent/fun game going.

 

Yeah, I was attempting to get into battles with you guys, but apparently didn't "make the cut" most of the time.  That, and what doublespook was saying, makes it seem pretty obvious that the more experienced you are, the less likely you will be put into a battle at top tier, or with less experienced players. If you were in flights, I might have been left out because I was flying solo.

 

It's interesting, actually. The philosophy might be: as your skill at the game increases, or as your advantages increase, to put you into tougher and tougher matches, thus continuing to challenge you, and preventing you from noob-stomping all night long. This might actually work for increasing player retention. Someone like me that used stats to measure personal improvement might need to reconsider (fyi, i didn't pad em in low tiers). Being put into battles as low tier, or against better opponents might actually mean the MM thinks highly of you. (Used to joke about that when players would complain about being low-tier.)

 

That could be some pretty complicated logic, though. Think about how you would need to balance between tier, skill, and planes among all players in queue. If the above discussion is at all close to reality, then it's no wonder we're seeing small matches. Everyone wins? No, not at all. Everyone is pushed a little bit at a time to "up" their game.

 

Back on subject... it is difficult to tell if/how well the MM is working, or if it will work well with 1000+ players. I expect a large number of small/tiny matches in the high (8-10) and low (1-3) tiers, with mid tiers (4-7) having more full matches.  I would like to see MM be more dynamic based on tier and number of available players. For example, many players - balance as much as possible; few players - loosen the rules to make battles with a good number of players/team (esp. at higher tiers, allow noobs and vets, 2-tier spread, etc.).

 

Although I do like the idea of trying to balance plane class (LF, HF, GAA, MR) and player experience... I think it could use a little tweaking to accommodate the lower number of available players in NA and EU regions.


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losttwo #31 Posted 17 October 2014 - 07:49 AM

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View PostAurabird, on 14 October 2014 - 03:11 PM, said:

The test server has such a tiny population that it's hard to tell if it's working as intended at all.

The method that should be applied here in my opinion, would be to ship 1.6 to the live servers with the 1.6 MM but hotfix it within a week or 2 after release if it's bad

 

So 20 people in queue for particular tier and it makes a 3 vs 3 match ( 9 people ) and you say it is a population issue ?

If the match resulted in a 10 vs 10 match I could understand your point.



BrushWolf #32 Posted 17 October 2014 - 05:39 PM

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The MM's love of two tiers is all right but making short, sub 12 vs 12, matches is not. Below that the matches just are not as good and the full three tier spread needs to be accessed again.

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pyantoryng #33 Posted 17 October 2014 - 06:51 PM

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The pop there in night Moscow time...is twice normal NA pop...plenty people playing T8,9 and 10...

 

...yet it constantly take at least five minutes to make one match for me.

 

 



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IamJMan999 #34 Posted 18 October 2014 - 09:37 PM

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  I will start my review of MM off with a question for the DEVS if they do indeed actually receive any or all of our feedback -

  

     What holds precedence for MM; i.e. what factor is given the most importance to and why?  Filling matches 15v15 or equal matches (ratio of plane class)


 

   I am still beside myself at what we get from MM. The MM that we had in CB through most of release was very flawed and I think most people should agree with that. The main issue with that version of MM is that people could abuse the system and flight up in a group of 3 tier 10's or 9's or the highest tier being played, or 1 higher then being played and generally within 5 minutes would be put into a match causing very uneven teams. That needed to be fixed, no doubt in my mind.


 

  The new issue is (at least within the NA region) our population most of the time will not support single tier games with equally distributed teams that also achieve 15v15. With hopes of changes in 1.6 we rallied over 20 people to help test this in the CT. So would MM with 16 fighters in que at tier 7 make an 8v8 match? No It did not. It pulled 12 for a 6v6 single tier game and left 4 people sitting waiting. Then it put those 4 people that were waiting into a 4v4 with half of the tier 8's that were in que. What gives?


 

  This test was repeated a few times with very similarly bad results. Why is MM choosing to make battles with half the options out there? Another test was run at tier 9, with 2 GA's queued and the rest fighters. MM takes all the fighters and leaves the GA's. This MM is making even less sense then it did back in CB. So, I repeat, what is MM trying to do?


 

  I'm sure WG got a lot of negative feedback about MM when it was putting together ridiculous games such as 3 GA's on 1 side and 0 GA's on the other, or a 4v4 with a 3 man flight of tier 9's on 1 side and a tier 7, and 4 tier 8's opposing. I get it that's horrible and needed to be fixed, but seriously it's as if WG only knows how to do 1 extreme or the other.


 

  I believe MM should work like this:

  1. All teams must have an equal number of planes. i.e. 15v15  ,  10v10

  2. A single tier game should happen 60% of the time.

  3. A 2 tier game should happen 25% of the time.

  4. A 3 tier game should happen 15% of the time. This keeps the game challenging but also helps fill games during low pop.

  5. MM should make 10v10 minimum take precedence over perfectly matched teams. It's ok for 1 team to have 3 ils and the other team to have only 2.

  6. Top tier flights of 3 need to be balanced by a minimum of 4 top tier planes on the opposing side. Meaning during times of low population if a flight of 3 tier 9's are in queue they will not get a game until there are at least 5 other 9's in queue to make a 4v4 top tier unless they're is another flight of 3 tier 9's.

  7. If during periods of low population there are 16 GA's in queue and nothing else, MM will create an 8v8 match with all GA's and not create 2 4v4's.

 

If WG decides they want to stick with there current MM regardless of how it handles things.. ( :facepalm: ) Then I hope maybe they can at least add a low population contingent to it. Such as when ever the population is under a certain number (maybe 1000) then it pushes to make games larger either by adding in the third tier or allowing any number of plane type into battles.


 

I'm sure players have left because they did not like what they considered to be uneven matches created by the previous MM, Many more have left due to control schemes not working as intended, and yet  even more have left because of a lack of end-game. Well if MM continues this way it will only exacerbate the NA's low population issues and drive out the remaining playerbase. The new complex GT's are cool, The new mig line gives me something to grind, talk of clans coming SOONtm excites me, but if I log on and see 20 people in tier 7 and then my i220 gets dropped into a 6v6 that I waited in queue for 5 minutes, well its kinda like going to an NFL game but they decide to play 7 on 7 flag  football instead.



ViolentAngel #35 Posted 18 October 2014 - 10:18 PM

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Seems that when I fly GAA (IL-2(mod.), IL-2(t), & IL-10) I am put in bottom tier every match. Just finished 30th match in GAA on the CT. Will update this post with the actual numbers when I review the replays.

 

Edit: Results are as I thought.  I fought 30 battles today and here is the data to back up my observations.

Plane Battles % Top Tier % Survive % Win
IL-2 (mod) 11 18.18% (2/11) 36.36% 54.55%
IL-2 (t) 5 0% 20% 40%
IL-10 7 0% 14.29% 42.86%
FW-190A-8 1 100% 0% 100%
Yak-3RD 2 100% 50% 50%
XP-75 4 100% 25% 25%

 

I would surmise that the number of battles fought in a plane is used to determine how you are matched up.

I have >400 battles in each the IL-2 (t) and IL-10, about 70 battles in the IL-2 (mod), and of course just a handful in the new T7s premiums.


Edited by Jekyll_n_Hyde, 19 October 2014 - 03:56 AM.

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FastAttack #36 Posted 19 October 2014 - 01:17 PM

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new MM is awesome here I am at tier vi , instead of getting pulled up I was stuck for 17 minutes! 

 

yup 1 tier spread so awesome:

 

 

in essence I would say do 1.4 , balance the flights and airplanes as much as possible and be done with it.

 

Since 1.5 the match maker has been atrocious.

 


Edited by FastAttack, 19 October 2014 - 01:18 PM.


BrushWolf #37 Posted 19 October 2014 - 04:08 PM

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View PostFastAttack, on 19 October 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

new MM is awesome here I am at tier vi , instead of getting pulled up I was stuck for 17 minutes! 

 

yup 1 tier spread so awesome:

 

 

in essence I would say do 1.4 , balance the flights and airplanes as much as possible and be done with it.

 

Since 1.5 the match maker has been atrocious.

 

 

Is this on the live server or the CT? I have only had long waits in excess of five minutes on the CT when there were very few in my tier and the tiers on either side. Now I do think that the MM needs to be less afraid of the full spread to get the match sizes up, ideally to at least 12 vs 12 if possible. The real problem with match balance and the three tier spread doesn't start until the top tier is 8 plus where the capability difference between the top and bottom tier starts getting exponential instead of incremental. Fix the MM for seven and under separately from eight plus, they are two different animals.

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FastAttack #38 Posted 19 October 2014 - 06:08 PM

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View PostBrushWolf, on 19 October 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

 

Is this on the live server or the CT? I have only had long waits in excess of five minutes on the CT when there were very few in my tier and the tiers on either side. Now I do think that the MM needs to be less afraid of the full spread to get the match sizes up, ideally to at least 12 vs 12 if possible. The real problem with match balance and the three tier spread doesn't start until the top tier is 8 plus where the capability difference between the top and bottom tier starts getting exponential instead of incremental. Fix the MM for seven and under separately from eight plus, they are two different animals.

 

CT server with 480 players online.

 

 


Edited by FastAttack, 19 October 2014 - 06:08 PM.


BrushWolf #39 Posted 19 October 2014 - 07:10 PM

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View PostFastAttack, on 19 October 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

 

CT server with 480 players online.

 

 

 

I just wanted to be certain as that is a common problem on the live server and the 1.6 changes are "supposed" to correct that. It seems that sometimes the MM loses track of who is in the que and the only fix is to bail and re-que.

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The_Brett #40 Posted 26 October 2014 - 09:55 PM

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I still think the MM needs tweaking. Having a heavy fighter in a low tier = long wait. There were also several instances where there were 26 players in tier 4 and the MM kept taking 4 to 6 at a time rather than the whole group. I waited 4 min as it would take a few, more players would come into the queue, it would take some more and finally after three time of this I was placed into a battle with higher tier planes. I think it should have put all 26 tier 4 into a battle instead of looking for perfection. Average wait time to play is way up.




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