40 replies to this topic

[J311yfish]

J311yfish, on 23 May 2015 - 03:21 PM, said:

"...in 1942, the Air Ministry carried out independent studies to convert the standard Reggiane Re.2005 Sagittario, Italy's finest fighter of the war, into a high-performance, mixed-power variant.  In addition to the normal nose-mounted piston engine, the fighter was to have an auxiliary Fiat A.20 engine housed in a widened rear fuselage and exhausting beneath the tail surfaces.  The A.20 engine was to drive two centrifugal superchargers, one to supercharge the nose engine and the other to supply compressed air to a combustion chamber and exhaust nozzle in the tail.  Weight and performance calculations were made for two distinct variants, one designated the Re.2005 R (for Reazione) and the other the Re.2005 SF (named after the project officers, Majors Sarracino and Ferri).  The Re.2005 R's maximum speed was estimated at 730 km/h (454 mph); although it reached the final drawing board stage in July 1943, it was never completed." (Kay, 249)

 

More on the 'jet-powered' Reggiane Re.2005:

 

"On [11/20/1942] Guidonia suggested adding a jet propulsion device to an RE 2005, whose top speed would then reach 750 kph.  The extra weight however would entail removing wing guns and the armored pilot seat.  The variant was sometimes identified as 'SF' from the surnames of its proponents, Majors Marcello Sarracino and Antonio Ferri of the engineering branch.  Tests were made with a rig powered by a Fiat A.20 engine, the results being summed up in a report of [07/07/1943] which also touched upon the structural changes to be made to the RE 2005 airframe.  In [06/1944] an Allied investigation team summed up the project rather bluntly: 'The first proposal put forward suggested the use of a 12 cylinder liquid cooled 370 hp, 5500 rpm engine driving two centrifugal compressors, one for supercharging the main DB.605 unit together with the auxiliary engine, the second for supplying the reaction propulsion.  The total additional weight was estimated at 1000 lb (approx.).  The complication of this installation, involving in the more finalized design, the installation of a Fiat A-20 engine behind the pilot, indicates that lacking a suitably high powered engine the Italian Air Ministry was prepared to contemplate an artificial device for increasing the performance of the RE.2005.'  Longhi often recalled his opposition to the 'crazy idea conceived by imaginative but impractical people', adding sometimes that the modification would have moved the center of gravity back from 21 to 30% and radically altered the aircraft's handling." (Alegi, 36-39)

Edited by J311yfish, 07 September 2016 - 07:29 PM.

[J311yfish]

Production values in yellow

 

If the recent leak of IJA aircraft is true, and the treatment of Kawasaki and Nakajima for Japan is accurate -- emphasis on production values rather than incremental development per manufacturer -- then the same could be done for Italy to eliminate "paper and vapor" and provide a concise progression with interesting premiums.

 

The overall production values are, by one account, comparable to those of France.

 

//edit: I do not like to rely on Wikipedia even as a last resort, but given the absence of any alternatives for IMAM Ro.41, Wikipedia claims 744 produced, which would make it #1 for production at tier 3.

Edited by J311yfish, 30 September 2016 - 10:16 AM.

[J311yfish]

CAMPINI

-- post dedicated to all Campini developments

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 05 November 2016 - 06:50 PM.

[J311yfish]

More on the 'jet-powered' Reggiane Re.2005:

 

From 'La Propulsione A Reazione In Italia dale origini al 1943', by Giuseppe Ciampaglia (2002) -- six pages are devoted to the story of Luigi Broglio, Antonio Ferri, and Marcello Sarracino and their plan to modify the Re.2005 to utilize a centrifugal or axial flow compressor (see image below). 

 

 

Similar concepts employed by MiG I-250N, and Sukhoi Su-5.  The mixed-power MiG I-250 is currently in-game for Tier VIII. 

 

Mixed propulsion was pioneered by the Italians with the Caproni Campini (first flight 08/27/1940), and a projected version (Ca.183bis) was to be an improvement.​  The mixed-power Reggiane Re.2005 (Sagittario) could be the Tier VIII lead-in to Aerfer Sagittario 2 designed by Sergio Stefanutti (see video).  Though it flew after the end of the Korean War, the engine used (Rolls-Royce Derwent 9) is a development of that used in the Gloster Meteor (VII+), Supermarine Attacker (IX), and the technology was copied for Lavochkin La-15 (X), MiG-15bis (X).

 

 

Given the continuation of Aerfer Sagittario 2 as Aerfer Ariete and Leone (below), and given the hypothetical (I.e. fictional) development of Ki-162-I (IX) and Ki-162-3 (X) for alternate-history Japan, perhaps a tier X development could be the Ariete, Leone, "Sagittario 3" or similar.  Pictured below is a mock-up of the ultimate development, Leone, which was not built.  Like the Re.2005 R/SF and Ca.183bis it was to be mixed power (jet + rocket).

 

 

 

​More about the Aerfer Leone by Raptor_Fulcrum (02/2012)

Edited by J311yfish, 01 October 2016 - 05:41 PM.

[J311yfish]

Production locations

 

ph

Edited by J311yfish, 15 November 2016 - 02:06 PM.

[J311yfish]

Reworking Italy based on recent introduction of IJA for Japan.

 

Emphasis on engine progression, with respect to production numbers and chronology.

 

 

Fighters

-- The reality is that the Italian manufacturers Fiat, Macchi, Reggiane, others competed against each other for production contracts (like Nakajima, Mitsubishi, Kawasaki).  In the case of Italy, it was not all-or-nothing, but rather a competition for primacy, with the second-string aircraft being produced in quantity to mitigate risk.  Third-string aircraft generally considered for bombs, torpedoes, or for sale abroad (G.50 Finland, Re.2000 Sweden)

-- Tier III -- Gloster Gladiator (anticipated tier III prior to Hurricane tier IV) is the referent for CR.42 (Osprey Duel 47).  CR.42 developed from earlier CR.40 and 41; therefore Tier III.  Arado 197 is a Tier IV biplane only due to cannon armament (see modules).

-- Tier IV and V -- Given the treatment of the IJA line with respect to production,and given the treatment of Ki-43-I and Ki-43-II's engines, it is possible to stagger the G.50 and C.200 in the same manner so as to take advantage of their early and later arrivals despite using the same engine; performance from same engine with C.200 > G.50. 

-- Tier VI -- Kawaski Ki-61 is the referent for C.202 (DB601 used abroad), also Spitfire V (Osprey Duel 60), both are Tier VI.

-- Tier VII -- The C.205V was the first to fly with the DB 605 engine only because it did not require a prototype stage from C.202.  It was flown to Fiat and Reggiane for use as a reference aircraft.  The G.55 was favored for production however, even by the Germans for a time ~09/1943 (short lived presumably for 2 reasons -- man-hours per aircraft and status of Fiat production facilities).  Referent Bf 109G tier VII.

-- Tier VIII -- Re.2005 the last to fly with DB605, projected DB603, further projected mixed-power, as MiG I-250 in-game Tier VIII.  An alternative would be the Caproni Campini Ca.183bis, but there is as of now no direct tie-in to that projection.

-- Tier IX -- Aerfer Sagittario II continuity in name and concept with Ariete also favoring mixed power. Timeline delayed due to end of war chaos, but if it is desirable to project forward from 1942 in a manner that extrapolates Italy's air power​ (alternate timeline -- as has been done for Japan with J7W2/3, Ki-162-I/III), then perhaps the remarkable aircraft by Stefanutti, and perhaps even variants of the Arado Ar 234 stationed for a time in Italy, might have a place.  (It would have to be imagined that end-of-war chaos did not ensue, that the air force was not divided, that collaboration with Germany was improved rather than German nationalization of Italian aircraft production, etc.)

 

Multirole

Two aircraft carriers, Aquila and Sparviero, finally initiated (after indecision) 09/1942 (too late).  Some variants of the main fighter branch either adapted, or considered for adaptation to be used as 2nd generation carrier-based fighters.  It may be that nothing comes of this, but perhaps potential premiums could at least be identified.

 

Attack

Work in progress.  Bomber and torpedo bomber progression identified because it provides context for understanding how the role was met.

 

There are many avenues to progress in this project.  Reliable referents are just a starting point.

 

Edited by J311yfish, 05 October 2016 - 11:19 PM.

[J311yfish]

Update

 

 

Much progress has been made on clearly identifying fighter progression I-X on a modular level.

 

Questions and Answers

1) One major question was whether Fiat CR.42 would be Tier III or IV.

-- The answer is Tier III based on existing engines (P-35) and armament (Ba.27M) already in game. It would face the F3F and Gladiator.  If the experimental CR.42DB is ever offered as premium it would face the Arado Ar 197 and Fairey Fantome at Tier IV.

2) Another major question was how Fiat G.50, Macchi C.200 might fare at Tiers IV and V.

-- The answer is, based on the Ki-43-I and Ki-43-II now in game, just fine.

3) Another big question is, how do you get through Tier VIII, really? 

-- The clearest alternative so far is to use the Re.2005, whose engine is carried forward from the previous tier, and then to follow through on the imagined mixed-power creation.  The referent for that is already in-game (MiG I-250).

-- Another alternative is to follow the SAI.403 Dardo (Dart) light fighter ordered into production, designed by Stefanutti.  The reference for that approach so far appears to be the C.714 and Bell XP-77 but with greater horsepower presumably to reach tier VIII.  More investigation needed.

4) Lastly, another big question is, what do you really do with Tier IX and X -- jets of American influence such as the Fiat G.91 (our timeline)? or something else?  (alternate timeline as with Germany and Japan).

-- I think, given Stefanutti's development of SAI.403 Dardo (Dart) prior to Armistice, the huge production order desired, the continuation from that vehicle to Sagittario 2 (by way of swept-wing research craft), and the fact that it uses Rolls-Royce Derwent (scaled down Nene as used in Supermarine Attacker), that the answer is to follow Sagittario 2 and its planned successor Ariete.  Some might say that the first flight date (05/19/1956) puts it well beyond the end of the Korean War (07/27/1953), but the same could be said of the IL-40P (02/14/1955).  Furthermore, exceptions to first flight dates have been known to exist already in game, presumably because it is an extension of a previous development (the same is true also for Fiat CR.42 when compared to Fiat G.50).

 

Conclusions

Moving along, some firm conclusions can be drawn.  It is not realistic to suppose that there will be 3 full fighter lines by manufacturer, when in reality they all competed for primacy (winners and losers, as with Japan).  At most, it may be possible to have one as a pure fighter line, and a secondary as a fighter-bomber line (perhaps radial-engine as Re.2002 so as not to deprive the main line of its German heritage).  Unfortunately, that is not something that I will be able to figure out in detail because it will ultimately rely on fictional post-war development.  I have proposed a few things that might be within reach, however:

1)  Italian trimotor bombers and German collaboration leading to Arado Ar 234 or similar 'fast bomber' projects.  This follows the manner of Japan which has been given the He 162 (Germany by proxy), and emphasizes something that is kind of distinguished about Italy's approach (trimotors to tier V or VI).  It would also mean defensive armament that is so far not in game, such as 2 turrets, dorsal and ventral, or lateral guns.

2) Italian designer Cesare Pallavicino and German designer Kurt Tank go on to practice their trade in Argentia after the war -- this gives you the Nancu heavy fighter, Pulqui I jet, Pulqui II jet -- aircraft that otherwise may not ever have a place in the game.​  This stems from the actual timeline, though, rather than an alternate timeline.

 

Moving Forward

The avenues to move forward in this project are, in my opinion:

1) further detail saturation for fighters I-X, identifying all possibilities for intermittent engines planned or projected.

2) investigate fighter-bomber multi-role in detail I-X to the extent possible.  It might be imagined that Italy actually followed through on carrier development, for example (Aquila and Sparviero).

3) investigate any/all supplementary Luftwaffe forces in Italy.

4) investigate German secret projects for any suggestion that might be made that aircraft be built in or given to Italy -- or, find a project that is very clearly not going to be put in game for Germany and see if it holds up in some way to Italian ambitions (such as Arado 234 or variation).

Edited by J311yfish, 28 October 2016 - 12:17 AM.

[J311yfish]

Update

 

 

Fighters

-- in early tiers, emphasis on maneuverability and visibility.

-- in later tiers, emphasis on maneuverability and armament.

-- transition to jets via mixed-power Re.2005 using Campini motorjet system

 

Multirole

-- radial-engine fighters supplement the main line in a fighter-bomber capacity.

-- The Reggiane RE 103 1740hp M-18 engine would be Italy's native Tier VI/VII engine, meant to be interchangeable with Isotta-Fraschini X-24 (below).

--- this engine was planned for Re.2004 but did not materialize.

-- The Isotta-Fraschini X-24 engine (tested 12/1941) is analogous to the DB 604 X-24 and would another native engine at Tier VII/VIII.

--- this engine was considered for G.55, planned for Re.2004, Piaggio P.119, Amborisini SAI.403, Caproni-Vizzola F.6Z, Caproni Ca.331 but did not materialize.

-- if Italy were granted even the minor/modest fictional development of these engines (projected from 1941) then it would be possible to have a parallel line of multirole fighters, joining the main line again with Re.2005.

 

Heavy

-- protracted development; in reality supplemented by German aircraft, and at later tiers the regular fighters carried heavier armament

 

Attack

-- in early tiers, emphasis on fast/agile attack/interceptor aircraft (theories of Amedeo Mecozzi)

-- in mid tiers, emphasis on heavy armament

-- in later tiers, emphasis on the 'fast bomber' concept pursued by Germans ("Bomber B") to be consistent with Mecozzi.

 

Trimotors

-- It has been necessary to trace bomber and maritime bomber (floatplane) development in order to understand origin of some attack aircraft. 

-- The SM.79 accounts for ~12-20% of all aircraft produced and spans two tiers before being overtaken by the designs of Filippo Zappata.

-- The trimotor formula continues until Tier V for operational aircraft, and possibly tier VI with the unbuilt IMAM Ro.67 (3x DB 601).

 

moving forward

-- Caproni Campini Ca.183bis and related projects

-- Caproni ad nauseam

-- Luftwaffe fast bomber projects (Arado Ar 240/440 program canceled 10/1943)

-- designer tracking

-- production tracking

-- details

Edited by J311yfish, 03 November 2016 - 02:27 PM.

[J311yfish]

Designer tracking

 

Above is a list of developments, color-coded by designer, and arranged by approximate tier/chronology, that fill the middle-roles of the spectrum between Fighter and Bomber.

 

Mecozzi

-- The attack doctrine of Mecozzi is brought to form with the Caproni Bergamaschi AP1 (04/1934) designed by Cesare Pallavicino.  The concept is carried further by Panzeri and Parano with the Breda Ba.64/65, but the Ba.65 (09/1935) was difficult to fly, and a disappointment.  It was supplemented by IMAM Ro.41 biplanes used in a fighter-bomber capacity, as well as the Caproni Bergamaschi Ca.310 Libeccio (04/1937) twin-engine multi-purpose aircraft (also by Pallavicino).  The Breda Ba.88 (02/1937) was to improve upon the situation with twin engines also, and despite speed records with the prototype, was ultimately a disappointment when loaded.  Cesare Pallavicino returns to the drawing board to revisit the single-engine design, for the role that he started with the AP1; the result is the Ca.335 Maestrale (1939) which is sold to Belgium.  By this point it is clear that the way forward is via single-engine single-seat fighter bomber, twin-engine two-seat heavy fighter, or dedicated dive bomber. 

 

Dive Bomber

-- The Savoia-Marchetti SM.85/86 twin-engine dive bomber (12/1938-06/1940+) was a disappointment and did not even see combat.  Sergio Stefanutti designs the canard SS.4 (05/1939), acceptable for dive bombing, but despite strong performance no order was placed (presumably due to unorthodox design).  Cesare Pallavicino revisits the single-engine Ca.335 design sold to Belgium in 1939, and derives a dive bomber version, Ca.355 (01/1941); flight trials successful but no production orders placed. 

-- Breda Ba.88 and IMAM Ro.57, disappointing as heavy fighters, are modified to function as dive bombers (1942), supplementing the more successful Junkers Ju 87.  From this point dive bomber development appears to parallel the German formula.  The Breda 201 (07/1941) has strong resemblance to Ju 87.  The SM.93 (01/1944) follows but adds also the prone-pilot concept to mitigate the effect of G-force during a dive.  The Germans employ the same prone concept in the Henschel Hs 132 (1945).

 

Heavy Fighter

-- The Caproni Bergamaschi Ca.310-series (04/1937) filled the role until newer twin-engine developments materialize.  IMAM Ro.57 (1939 design) was disappointing as an interceptor, being no faster than a single-engine aircraft.  Savoia-Marchetti SM.88 (1939) was deemed no better than Bf 110 already in production, and considered for export but denied by the Germans.  The twin-boom concept is revisited with SM.91 (03/1943), SM.92 (10/1943), and twin-fuselage Caproni Bergamaschi Ca.380 Corsaro (incomplete 09/1943) which bears resemblance to Bf 109Z.

 

Assault with Big Guns

-- This does not appear to be a native concept from the beginning, but rather one that was developed by necessity as the war progressed (1941+), or as a consequence of aircraft being unsuited for other purposes, or result of German influence, etc.  Aircraft are converted from the bomber and/or reconnaissance role to function as anti-tank and anti-shipping aircraft.  The largest being 102mm cannon employed by the 4-engined Piaggio P.108A.

 

Conclusions

-- The Mecozzi concept of fast/agile interceptor/bomber aircraft appears to be carried forward most successfully by the radial Reggiane fighters.  In this manner there is some resemblance to Germany's Fw 190's (V-VII).

-- Trying to identify a clear progression through the Attack and Heavy fighter roles is complicated by false-starts, German supplements, and rapid influx of German designs.

-- The prime designers in this portion of the fighter-bomber spectrum are Cesare Pallavicino, Filippo Zappata, Roberto Longhi, and Alessandro Marchetti.  Pallavicino was often (at least 4 times) brought in to salvage or improve upon the designs of others.

 

Moving forward

-- design/designer tracking from Germany to Italy with implications for VII-X

-- prime suspects = Arado, Blohm und Voss

Edited by J311yfish, 06 November 2016 - 02:37 PM.

[J311yfish]

BOMBERS

 

Overview

 

Bomber progression identified below -- not because they fit into the current style of the game, but because they provide a context for understanding the aircraft that do (clues on engine developments, allocations, shortages, etc.).  It is also interesting to note that the jet developments by Stefanutti (Aerfer Sagitarrio 2, Ariete, Leone) borrow names from WW2 aircraft, across all roles -- Re.2005 Sagittario (fighter), Re.2002 Ariete (multirole), Cant Z.1018 Leone (bomber)

 

Maritime Bombers/Recon:

07/1934 -- CRDA Cant Z.501 Gabbiano (Gull)

08/1935 -- CRDA Cant Z.506B Airone (Heron)

06/1937 -- CRDA Cant Z.510 == Fiat RS.14

05/1939 -- CRDA Cant Z.515

[concept abandoned]

 

Land-based bombers:

__/1934 -- Savoia-Marchetti SM.81 Tartaruga -- personal plane of Mussoline (for a time)

09/1934 -- Savoia-Marchetti SM.79 Sparviero (Sparrow) -- [SM.79bis > SM.84 designed to replace it]

02/1936 -- Fiat BR.20

06/1939 -- CRDA Cant Z.1007bis Alcione (Halcyon)

10/1939 -- CRDA Cant Z.1018 Leone (Lion)

__/____ -- Breda BZ.303/303bis Leone II (Lion II)

09/1943 -- ARMISTICE

 

Italian GA

 

II -- 11/1933 -- IMAM Ro.37 -- 2x7.7mm forward + 1x7.7mm rear

III -- 09/1935 -- Breda Ba.64/65 -- 2x12.7mm + 2x7.7mm + rear gunner

IV -- 12/1937 -- Breda Ba.88 -- 4x7.7mm + 1x7.7mm rear

V -- __/1939 -- IMAM Ro.57/58 -- 5x20mm + 1x12.7mm rear

VI -- __/1941 -- CANSA FC.20 -- 1x37mm (N) + 2x12.7mm (W) + 1x12.7mm rear

==== 09/1943 ARMISTICE =========================================

VII -- 10/1943 -- Savoia-Marchetti SM.92 -- 3x20mm + 2x12.7mm + 1x12.7mm rear

VIII -- __/____ -- Breda BZ.303/304 -- 4x20mm (N) + 4x20mm (W) + 1x12.7mm rear

IX -- __/____ -- Arado 234 variant

X -- __/____ -- Arado 234 variant

 

 

 

Tier II

 

Savoia-Marchetti SM.81 Pipistrello (Bat) -- (1934) -- precursor to SM.79 Sparviero​ -- [535 built] -- Alessandro Marchetti -- entered service Autumn 1935

 

3x Alfa Romeo 125 580hp (Gentilli S.79, 24)

3x Piaggio P.X 700hp 9-cylinder radial

3x Piaggio P.IX 680hp

3x Alfa Romeo 126 900hp

3x Gnome-Rhone K-14 1000hp (Gentilli S.79, 24)

SM.81B two engines

(Gunston, 460)

 

3x Alfa Romeo 125 RC35 750hp 9-cyl

3x Alfa Romeo 126 RC34 750hp 9-cyl

3x Isotta-Fraschini (G-R K.14) 900hp 14-cyl

3x Piaggio Stella IX RC40 900hp 9-cyl

SM.81B -- Isotta-Fraschini Asso XI RC 840hp 12-cyl ... 204 mph max, 186 mph cruise, ceiling 26,240', range 1366 miles. [climb details]

-- max speed 196-214 mph depending on engine fitted, range 932-1242 miles, ceiling 22960' [dimension and climb details]

(Thompson, 270-273)

 

SM.73

-- "Forerunner of the SM.81 bomber that fought in Ethiopia, Spain, and in [WW2] ... produced in 1934.  The prototype was powered by [Gnome-Rhone 9 Kfs 600hp radials] driving wooden airscrews (4-bladed on the nose engine, 2-bladed on the outboard units), and featured the tall tail surfaces of the SM.71 ... went into production with a revised, longer fuselage, [Piaggio Stella IX RC 700hp 9-cylinder radials] driving 3-bladed variable-pitch metal airscrews, and a lower, broader vertical tail assembly.  As the SM.73P it entered service with Ala Littoria; as well as SABENA, the Belgian airline; and CSA, the Czechoslovakian airline." (Thompson, 258)

-- "... 12,760 lb empty and 20,460 loaded ... all-wood cantilever wing and fabric-covered welded steel tube fuselage and tail group.  Wheel spats were fitted, open on early models, later fully enclosing.  18 passengers and a crew of 4 were accommodated, plus up to 800 lb of baggage in the bottom of the fuselage.  Maximum speed was 205 mph @ 13,120', cruising speed 174 mph, and landing speed 56 mph.  Service ceiling was 24,272' and maximum range 994 miles ... climbed to 6560' in 10:00, to 13,120' in 20:00, and to 19,680' in 33:00.  On two engines, maximum speed was 168 mph and service ceiling 14,432'.  Dimensions were: span 78 ft 8 2/3 in, length 57 ft 2 3/4in, height 15 ft 1 in, and wing area 1000.7 sq ft. // With Italy's entry into the war, the SM.73's of Ala Littoria came under the management of the Commando Servizi Aerei Speciali (CSAS) as military transports.  13 formed the 605 and 606 Squadriglie of the 148 Gruppo 'T', based at Reggio Calabria.  These were used for varied duties, including the supply of troops and equipment to North Africa.  In many ways the Italian counterpart of the German Junkers Ju 52/53m, the SM.73 was one of the earliest transports to serve efficiently on European air routes.  A few were built by SABCA in Belgium." (Thompson, 259)

SM.81

-- "...considerable use in the Ethiopian campaign of [1935] ... fought in the Spanish Civil War and in [WW2] and was still in limited use as a transport in the immediate postwar period, in spit of the fact that it was already technically obsolete by 1936 ... Nevertheless, the SM.81 was the standard Italian bomber until the vastly superior SM.79 began to enter service in 1937." (Thompson, 270)

-- "A military version of the very successful SM.73 airliner, the SM.81 was one of the world's best multi-role bomber/transport aircraft in 1935, but when Italy entered  World War II in [06/1940] (by which time about 100 were in service, plus about 40 in Spain) it was becoming obsolescent.  Despite this its serviceability and popularity resulted in its appearing in every theater in which Italy was engaged, from Eritrea to the Soviet Union.  Until 1942 it was an important night bomber in the eastern Mediterranean, and it became the most important Italian transport in terms of numbers ... A few served with the post-war Aeronautica Militare until about 1951." (Gunston, 461)

-- "Most of the large force of SM.81 bomber/transports prior to World War II were silver or cream, but this example [model pictured above] was one of many whose wing upper surfaces were banded with red." (Gunston, 461)

-- "... 3-engined bomber resembling the civil S.73 transport machine.  In several respects it resembles the German Junkers Ju 52, but the construction is actually very different.  Engines are [3x Piaggio Stella X RC 700hp].  There are two SAFAT guns in a retractable Breda turret behind the pilot's cockpit and two more in a lower turret.  Span 78' 8.5" ... top speed 210 mph [338 km/h] at 9,850' ... climb to 9,850' 12min ... ceiling 22,500'." (Flight Magazine 06/13/1940)

-- "[FF 1935]; service delivery Autumn 1935; final delivery possibly 1941. Performance: Maximum speed 211 mph (340 km/h) [engines not specified]; typical range with bomb load 932 miles (1500 km). // Dimensions: Span 24.00m; length 17.80m; height 4.45m. // Weights: Empty 6300kg; max loaded 10,450kg. // Armament: Varied or absent, but usually [2x7.7mm Breda-SAFAT] in powered dorsal turret, two more in retractable ventral turret and two more aimed manually from beam windows; internal weapon by for up to 1000kg of bombs." (Gunston, 460)

-- "3 distinct types of engine cowling were employed; the initial short-chord Townend ring was followed by a similar longer-chord type, finally replaced by the smoother Magni-NACA tapered variety.  A glazed bombardier's position was fitted below the fuselage just behind the engine nacelle, while 2 semi-retractable hydraulically-operated turrets, each with [2x7.7mm], were located in dorsal and ventral positions.  A fifth hand-held 7.7mm gun was fired from either of 2 lateral hatches.  Crew was six.  The normal bomb load was 2640 lb (maximum 4400 lb)., stored vertically in the bottom of the fuselage.  This method of bomb storage did not allow a predictable bomb trajectory, which partly explains the mediocre results often obtained by Italian bombing squadrons.  Various loads were: [4x1100 lb or 550 lb bombs, 16x 220 lb bombs, 20 x 110 lb bombs, or 56 x 44 lb or 33 lb bombs] ... also tested in 1936 with 2 torpedoes mounted beneath the fuselage." (Thompson, 270-271)

-- "Operating both as a bomber and troop transport in the Ethiopian campaign of 1935, the SM.81 was an effective machine, although not used in as great numbers as the older Ca 133.  In Spain it was satisfactory when given reasonable fighter cover (usually Fiat CR.32's), but by 1939 it was completely out-of-date.  At that time 276 machines (130 effective) were in service in Metropolitan Italy, Albania, Libya, and the Aegean Islands, while a further 36 (16 effective) were stationed in Ethiopia (AOI).  In [06/1940] ... equipped ... [details] ... During the war the bomber, receiving the name Pipistrello (Bat) because of its usual night bombing role, served in North Africa, Greece, and Russia, but it was increasingly employed for second-line duties such as paratroop and general-purpose transport.  In this capacity 18 troops could be carried.  When Italy surrendered 5 SM.81's joined the Allies, a few remaining machines being used by the Fascists." (Thompson, 271-273)

 

Piaggio P.16 (1934)

 

3x Piaggio Stella IX RC 700hp 9-cyl radials ... 248 mph [399 km/h] at 16,400' [5000m]

 

-- "The first of a series of highly original aircraft culminating in the P.108 bomber ... An extremely unusual design in a number of ways ... featured a shoulder-mounted inverted gull wing braced to the lower part of the fuselage by four struts.  The wing was fullest near the engine nacelles, tapering in chord and thickness toward the tips and in thickness towards the fuselage.  Hydraulically-operated double-camber flaps extended over the entire span, the outer sections serving as ailerons.  Construction was all-duralumin, while the fuselage and tail unit were fabric-covered welded steel tubing.  Armament consisted of 3 machine guns, one in the leading edge of the wing, one in a retractable dorsal turret, and one in the rear fuselage below the high-positioned, overhanging tail.  Landing gear was retractable except for the steerable tailwheel.  Loaded weight was 18,590 lb, including up to 2200 lb of bombs in the fuselage below the wings. // ... maximum speed of 248 mph at 16,400' and a landing speed of 65 mph.  Range was 1242 miles with an 1100 lb bomb load, or 932 miles with 2200 lb. Climb to 19,680' [17:00] ... span 72' 2", length 43' 9.5", height 11' 5 3/4", wing area 753.2 sq ft." (Thompson, 220)

 

 

Fiat BR.3 (1930), Fiat BR.4 (1934) -- [>250 built] -- Celestino Rosatelli

 

BR.3

-- "The famous series of FIAT bombers designed by Ing. Celestino Rosatelli began in 1919 with the original BR (Bombardamento Rosatelli).  The BR.3 two-seat day bomber biplane appeared in 1939 [?], powered by a Fiat A.25 1050hp 12-cylinder water-cooled vee engine.  Featuring the Warren-type wing bracing that was first an Ansaldo and later a Rosatelli trademark, and providing for a ring-mounted machine-gun in the rear cockpit, the BR.3, like its immediate predecessor the BR.2, became known for successful long-distance flights.  In [10/1931], together with a FIAT A.120, a BR.3 won the Coppa Principe Bibescu (Prince Bibescu Cup) with a flight of 710 miles at an average speed of 143 mph (with full military load), a ceiling of 20,500 ft, and an endurance of 3:30 or a range of 466 miles ... A few BR.3 bombers were supplied to China in 1935 after the establishment of an Italian Air Mission under Col. Lordi, advisor to Generalissimo Chiang Kaishek.  Some BR.2's and BR.3's were still being used as trainers by the Regia Aeronautica as late as 1939." (Thompson, 137)

BR.4

-- "The last of the single-engine BR two-seat biplane series, the BR.4 was first flown [1934].  Although basically a modernized development of the BR.3 concept, using the same FIAT A.25 1050hp engine, the BR.4 was an entirely new design resembling an enlarged CR.30 or CR.32.  In spite of being dated in comparison with the monoplane bombers then being designed, the BR.4 was an efficient machine featuring clean overall contours, a neat engine cowling, and such minor aerodynamic refinements as an airscrew spinner and streamlined wheel spats.  Nevertheless, the BR.4 was still far too slow (max speed 173 mph) to compete with newer twin-engine types, and only the single prototype was built ... Range was 807 miles and ceiling 18,860 ft. [weights, dimensions]." (Thompson, 137-138)

 

 

CRDA Cant Z.501 Gabbiano (Gull) -- (1934) -- Filippo Zappata

 

-- floatplane development leading to Z.506B, Z.1007, Z.1007bis, Z.1018, BZ.301/303/304

-- Zappata previously designed the Blériot 110 long-distance record plane in France (FF 05/1930). (Flight Magazine 04/29/1932)

-- turret mounting on Z.501. (Flight Magazine 06/13/1940)

 

 

 

Tier III

 

Savoia-Marchetti SM.79 Sparviero (Sparrowhawk) (09/1934) -- [1330 built] -- Alessandro Marchetti

Production	Airframe/Variant	Engine	Speed	Armament	Armament	Bombs
	SM.79	3x Isotta Fraschini XI R (1933 planned for race)
		3x Fiat A 59 (license-built P&W Hornet while under construction)
FF 10/08/1934	I-MAGO	3x Piagio P.IX RC40 610hp 9-cyl radials (3-blade 2-pitch props)
FF 06/14/1935	SM.79P	3x Alfa Romeo 125 RC35 580hp (development of Bristol Pegasus)	355 km/h @ SL
FF 07/08/1936	MM20663	3x Alfa Romeo 125 (prototype and a few early of first batch)
Delivered 10/1936		3x Alfa Romeo 126 RC34 750hp 9-cyl radials	360.5 km/h @ SL 429.7 km/h @ 4008m
FF 08/08/1936	SM.79B ​(B=Bimotor)	IV 2x Gnome-Rhone K.14 Mistral Major 950hp 14-cyl 2-row radials	420 km/h
FF 11/1936		2x Fiat A80 1000hp (same as found on previous BR.20)
1938-1939 Romania		IV  2x IAR K.14 900hp (Gnome-Rhone 14K Mistral Major)
FF 03/04/1937	SM.79K	IV  3x Gnome-Rhone K.14 Mistral Major
		3x Alfa Romeo 126 RC34 (ordered by Regia Aeronautica)
FF 04/24/1937	SM.79 P.XI	IV  3x Piaggio P.XI RC40 14-cyl 2-row radials (development of G-R 14Krs)
FF 03/1941	SM.79JR	VI  2x Junkers Jumo 211 Da 1220hp (Romania)	444 km/h
Delivered 05/1943	SM.79bis
	SM.79 testbed	Isotta Fraschini X-24 (planned engine for Re.2004)

Data:

 

-- "A total of 1,330 Sparvieri​ was built between 1934 and 1944, perhaps small by comparison with Allied production figures, yet these aircraft nevertheless represented almost 20% of the total Italian production effort of this period.  It won unstinted praise from its crews for its excellent handling qualities and -- perhaps of more significance -- achieved [undeniable] respect from its adversaries." (Apostolo, 16)

-- 1933 design for race [paintjob]

-- 1934 bomber spec issued; competitors Fiat BR.20, Fiat-CMASA BGA, Caproni Ca.135, Piaggio P.32, CRDA Cant Z.1011, Breda 82, Macchi MC.91, SM.79K

-- licensed production orders by Macchi, Reggiane, Aeronautica Umbra S.A. (AUSA) at Foligno in Central Italy.

-- "the same license building pattern [of SM.81 Pipistrello] would be applied to the S.79, which had a nearly identical construction, simple wooden wings and welded tube fuselage." (Gentilli S.79, 24)

 

-- "One of the most successful of the Italian bombers this 3-engined machine is especially notable for its high wing-loading of over 35 lb/sq ft.  Most of the machines in service [as of 06/1940] have the Alfa-Romeo 126 RC 34 engines (Bristol Pegasus license).  Use is made of Handley Page slots and slotted flaps.  There is [1x12.7mm fixed], a similar gun on a flexible mounting on top of the fuselage, and a third gun below the fuselage.  Data:  Span 66' 3" ... weight loaded 23,100 lb ... top speed 270 mph [435 km/h] @ 12,450' [3795m] ... climb to 13,000' [3962m] 13:20 ... service ceiling 22,900' [6980m]." (Flight Magazine 06/13/1940)

 

-- "It seems that during demonstrations before the Argentine Government someone questioned the maneuverability of the S.79B, so it was looped four or five times just to show that there was no ill-feeling.  It weighs over 21,000 lb." (Flight Magazine 10/07/1937, p.349)

 

-- "Italy stands alone in the development of high-speed triple-engine bombers.  The most recent version of [SM.79], taking advantage of the very latest Italian air-cooled engines and of Handley Page slots and flaps, is one of the fastest weight-carrying aircraft in the world today.  A similar type, with [3x Alfa Romeo Pegasus] engines (Bristol license), has been widely employed in Spain, equipped with a 20mm shell-gun on a fixed mounting, in addition to free machine guns." (Flight Magazine 03/30/1939)

 

-- (Flight Magazine 07/11/1940) -- SM.81 and SM.79

-- (Flight Magazine 11/05-1942) -- SM.84 intended to replace

 

 

Caproni Bergamaschi Ca.135 (04/1935)  -- competitor to SM.79 -- [~150 built] -- Cesare Pallavicino

 

Ca.135

-- layout comparable to Bristol Blenheim (Flight Magazine 10/1937)

-- "Designed [1934] at San Pietro ... initially to be built at Caproni's Taliedo plant, but eventually Bergamaschi took over complete development of the design ... designed in answer to an Air Ministry specification for a twin-engine medium bomber with a maximum speed of 240 mph, capable of carrying a 2650 lb bomb load a distance of 621 miles and able to maintain an altitude of 16,400' on one engine ... prototype [completed early 1935] and flown for the first time on [04/01/1935], powered by [2x Isotta-Fraschini Asso XI RC 800hp V-12]." (Thompson, 102)

-- "The wings were of mixed metal and wood construction, covered with wood and fabric ... [details] ... // In 1936 the Regia Aeronautica ordered 14 examples under the designation Tipo Spagna, but no Ca.135's were actually used in the Spanish conflict.  This version was also referred to as the Ca.135 Asso.  Power was slightly raised by the use of [2x Asso XI R.40 836hp] engines, but the Tipo Spagna weighed 18,500 lb loaded (compared to 16,225 lb for the prototype), and maximum speed dropped to only 227 mph ... [many engine upgrades proposed and implemented before turning the aircraft over to Regia Aeronautica bombing schools.]" (Thompson, 102-105)

-- Ca.135/P.XI evaluated by Imperial Japanese Army Air Force (IJAAF) against Fiat BR.20; lost to BR.20. (Thompson, 105)

-- Regia Aeronautica preferred 3-engined Z.1007bis and SM.79 to twin-engine types ... Ca.135/P.XI exported ... 100 given to Hungarian Air Force, used against Russia; only about 150 ever built, none serving with Regia Aeronautica. (Thompson, 105)

Ca.325

-- "... a development of the Ca.135 to have been powered by [Isotta-Fraschini Asso L.180 I.R.C.C.45 1450hp] 18-cylinder engines.  Studied in 1939, the Ca.325 was built in mock-up form only." (Thompson, 114)

Ca.365

-- "... a development of the Ca.135 projected with [2x Isotta-Fraschini Zeta R.C.42 1250hp X-24-cylinder] engines, but it did not progress past the drawing board." (Thompson, 118)

 

 

Fiat BR.20 Cicogna (Stork) -- (02/1936) -- "bombing and reconnaissance" -- competitor to SM.79 -- [~512 built] -- Celestino Rosatelli

 

 

BR.20

-- "A complete departure from previous Rosatelli-designed aircraft, the BR.20 medium bomber became one of the best-known Italian bombers but did not actually play a very important role in Regia Aeronautica operations during [WW2].  Following the modern concept of twin-engine bombing monoplanes, the BR.20 embraced nearly every design advance current in 1936.  In spite of somewhat angular fuselage, the BR.20 possessed relatively clean lines, with low-mounted cantilever wing and retractable landing gear.  Power was supplied by FIAT A.80 RC41 18-cylinder radial engines of 1000hp each.  Armament of the original production model ... [3x12.7mm] in nose and dorsal turrets and a ventral position ... maximum bomb load of 2200 lb within the fuselage.  Maximum speed was 267mph [430 km/h], range 1863 miles, and ceiling 23,616'.  Cruising speed 217mph, landing speed 66mph (with flaps) ... climbed to 6560 in 6:30, to 13,120' in 14:00, and to 19,680' in 22:30.  Without bombs the ceiling was 36,080', while fully loaded on one engine the figure was 9840ft." (Thompson, 138)

-- "The production BR.20 bombers, named Cicogna (Stork), had gone into service with the Regia Aeronautica between [1936-1940], approximately 275 examples being delivered.  On [06/10/1940], 219 BR.20's, of which 132 were serviceable, equipped the [details] ... considered primarily a night bomber and later a reconnaissance plane; in any case its exploits did not compare with those of the [SM.79] and [Z.1007], which formed the backbone of the Italian bombing force.  In [10/1940-11/1940] ... participated to a limited extent in the Battle of Britain, making only two daylight attacks and a few night raids, all unsuccessful.  Subsequently ... served over Greece and North Africa.  Normal offensive loads comprised [2x1100 lb, 4x550lb, 12x220lb, 154lb, 110lb, or 44lb bombs, 36x33 lb bombs, or 60x26.4 lb bombs." (Thompson, 140)

-- "The first production examples were tested in Spain under operational conditions, serving with the 35 Gruppo Autonomo da Bombardamento of the Aviazione Legionaria.  At the same time the Japanese government, after evaluating both the [Ca.135] and the BR.20 for use with the JAAF in China, ordered 100 of the latter to supplant the aging Mitsubishi Ki-1 Type 93 heavy bombers.  Designated Type I (Italy), Model 100 by the Japanese (the Allied code name Ruth was later applied, long after the BR.20 was withdrawn from Japanese service), about 75 of the FIAT bombers were supplied in early 1938 in exchange for Manchurian soy beans.  In actual combat over China, the Type I bombers were considered unwieldy, poorly armed and easily susceptible to fire because of the fabric-covered wings.  After generally unsuccessful operations, the FIATs were completely replaced by the new Mitsubishi Ki-21 Type 97 bombers in 1939.  A few BR.20's were purchased by Venezuela in the late 1930's after the establishment of an Italian Air Mission in that country." (Thompson, 139)

BR.20A (FF 1937)

-- civil record plane ... 1937 Istres-Damascus-Paris air race ... maximum speed 270mph [details]

BR.20L

-- civil record plane ... [03/1939] ... maximum speed 276 mph [details]

BR.20M

-- "[M = Modificato] ... appeared in 1939, was an improved bomber incorporating experience gained in the Spanish Civil War.  Employing the same A.80 RC41 engines, the BR.20M featured improved crew protection and modified armament, including an aerodynamically cleaner nose design.  Performance was little changed, with maximum and cruising speeds of 267 mph and 211 mph, although range dropped to 1242 miles and service ceiling to 22,140' ... [weights, dimensions] ... The Agusta factory experimentally fitted one BR.20 with tricycle landing gear, the first Italian military airplane so equipped." (Thompson, 140)

BR.20bis (1941)

-- "The final development ... and the first to differ extensively from the 1936 prototype, was the BR.20bis, [FF 1941].  Major changes included the fitting of FIAT A.82 RC42S 1250hp radials in much refined cowlings, greatly improved fuselage aerodynamics, and an increased defensive armament of [3x12.7mm as before, and 2x7.7mm in lateral blisters].  Only a limited number ... were delivered ... total production of the BR.20M and BR.20bis being approximately 250 machines." (Thompson, 142)

-- "[Max speed 286mph @ 16,400', cruising speed 230mph, range 1242 miles, service ceiling 30,176', climb to 13,120' in 10:10, 19,680' in 15:30] ... [weights, dimensions] ... By [09/1943] only 67 Cicognas of all variants remained in service ..." (Thompson, 142-143)

 

-- "The BR.20 bomber was the prototype of the Fiat machines in the Damascus race, which, although they hit some rough luck, proved themselves very fast over long distances.  Leading data are: Disposable load 7,936 lb ... top speed 267 mph, landing speed 75 mph, and range 5,590 miles.  This last is the manufacturer's figure, relating, undoubtedly, to the machine with supplementary tanks and in gross (decidedly) overload condition. // 2000 hp is taken from the twin Fiat A.80 RC41 two-row radials and delivered to constant-speed Hamilton-type airscrews. // The top speed figure seems decidedly optimistic in view of the large, square-cut and somewhat humpy fuselage.  Nose, ventral, and top-fuselage gun positions are included, and if the guns can be used effectively from their unobtrusive nests (and one must, of course, query the practical value of all free armament on machines doing over 250 mph [in 1937]) the BR.20 should be a very handy weapon to have around an air force." (Flight Magazine 10/07/1937, p.349)

 

-- "... generally similar to the Ca.135 except in the matter of engines.  These are [Piaggio P.XI RC 40 1000hp @ 13,100'].  The wing is of wooden construction but the fuselage is of mixed construction, the nose being of monocoque and the middle and rear sections of welded steel tube.  The Piaggio radials give the following performance: Top speed 273 mph ... climb to 13,100' 12:53 ... take-off run 380yd." (Flight Magazine 06/13/1940)

 

-- "... the Fiat BR.20 ... follows the twin-engine formula instead of the three-engine layout more usually favored by Italian designers, and it was the type chosen to operate against London when Mussolini asked Hitler to allow him to share in the honor of bombing Britain's capital ... Possibly the most characteristically Italian part of the BR.20 is its twin tail, with its rounded fins and rudders set above the tailplane well in from the tips and strut-braced to the fuselage. // Powered by a pair of [Fiat A.80 RC41 1000hp 18-cyl] ... top speed of 264 mph at 13,000 ft., a service ceiling of 26,000 ft, and a range of 1,240 miles at a cruising speed of 210 mph. // ... [construction details] ... Armament consists of a rifle-caliber machine gun in the nose and at the rear of the bomb bay, and two machine guns in a retractable dorsal turret.  Bomb load is 3,500 lb." (Flight Magazine 08/05/1943 p.144)

 

 

Piaggio P.32 -- (__/1936) -- "bombing and reconnaissance" -- competitor to SM.79-- [29 built] -- Giovanni Pegna

 

-- "... characterized by a strikingly short span (59') which has been made possible by an ingenious high-lift device which is said to work very well ... a double flap, but not of the variety which seems to interest some people in this country [England], i.e., the double-split variety.  To put it simply, there are two flaps in tandem and both are lowered at appropriate angles to give a high-left effect. // The stated disposable load of the P.32 is no less than 7.716 lb, and the top speed 260 mph with a brace of Piaggio P.XI RC 40's. // When the undercarriage is up there are very pronounced blister-like fairing beneath the nacelles which detract somewhat from a very clean and businesslike appearance. // The gun turrets (mounting a total of 4 weapons), like the flap system, are operated by compressed air. // It was whispered that 85 of these very formidable airplanes are already in service.  Their flying characteristics should make a most absorbing study.  Someone told me that they can maneuver like small fighters because of their short span and high load factors." (Flight Magazine 10/07/1937, p.349)

P.32 bis

-- "A short-span mid-wing monoplane with radial engines ... direct development of the [P.32] which had water-cooled Isotta-Fraschinis. Perhaps its most striking feature is its short span in relation to the all-up weight.  There is a gun turret in the nose and additional guns above and below the fuselage.  Data: Span 59' ... wing loading over 32 lb/sq ft ... all-up weight 20,400 lb; top speed 264 mph @ 16,400' ... climb to 13, 100' 15min ... ceiling 26,200'." (Flight Magazine 06/13/1940)

 

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 26 October 2018 - 03:34 PM.

[J311yfish]

BOMBERS (​continued)

 

Tier IV

 

Savoia-Marchetti SM.79 P.XI (04/1937; from 09/1934)

 

-- see progression from above

 

 

Breda Ba.82 (1937) -- (Flight Magazine 10/1937)​ -- [1 built] -- medium bomber

 

-- "The [Ba.82] medium bomber of 1937 was powered by [2x Fiat A.80 RC.41 1000hp radials].  A low-wing monoplane with retractable landing gear ... featured the then-popular but aerodynamically-inefficient 'pigeon-chested' fuselage with forward gun turret above the bombardier's position.  Additional guns ... in dorsal and ventral turrets.  The wing had split-flaps along the trailing edge ... [dimensions] ... Performance ... maximum and landing speeds of 264 mph [425 km/h] and 81 mph respectively [130 km/h] ... never went into production, as the Fiat A.80 proved to be unreliable and the Regia Aeronautica expressed preference for 3-engined bombers." (Thomson, 37-38)

 

 

CRDA Cant Z.506B Airone ​(Heron) -- (06/1937) -- [315 built] -- trimotor floatplane -- development leading to Z.1007, land-based competitor to SM.79 -- entered service 06/1938

 

Cant Z.506 -- civil use

-- "The prototype MM291 I-CANT [seaplane], ordered by the Air Ministry in 1934 with a 2nd prototype MM292 I-ORIA, made its maiden flight [09/19/1935] at Monfalcone in an all red livery, piloted by Mario Stoppani.  At that time it was fitted with [Fiat A.59 RC 700hp engines (license built P&W Hornet)]. // ... won the headlines [07/1935] (flown by Mario Stoppani and Amelio Novelli), breaking a number of speed records (8 in total) on the measured Fiumicino-Antignano-Ansedonia course, for the 1,000 and 2,000 km distances with no load and with 500, 1,000, and 2,000 kg load, achieving the average speed of 313, 261 and 307, 311 km/h, respectively, and improving [upon previous records by ~50 km/h ... later broke altitude records with Alfa Romeo 126 RC34 750hp engines.]" (Zorini, 3)

-- ordered for civil service 12/1934; introduced 1936 powered by Wright Cyclone SGR-182-F52A 770hp. First production aircraft flight 01/31/1936. During 1937, one fitted with Alfa 126 RC.34 750hp engines. Records broken.  (Zorini, 4-7)

-- another civil model Z.506C fitted Alfa 126 RC.10 800hp engines; entered service 1938. (Zorini, 9)

-- Z.506 floatplane further developed 06/1937 as Z.510 to 03/1937 specification for reconnaissance seaplane (along with Fiat RS.14); discontinued in favor of Z.515. (Zorini, 40)

Cant Z.506B -- military use

-- "Following the brilliant experience in the civil role, a military version ... was submitted to the Air Ministry, designed as a bomber or torpedo bomber ... featured a reduced width fuselage ... elevated cockpit, a dorsal turret and a bulged bomb bay ... [3x Alfa 126 RC34 750hp].  Due to the huge bulge represented by the bomb bay, the wing resulted now in mid-position, consenting a better merging of the wing with the fuselage ... enhanced streamlining, maximum speed ... increased from 366 to 375 km/h with the same engines. // First construction batch of 32 ... ordered [1937].  The renewal plan of 1937 of the Regia Aeronautica, known as Programma R, planned to equip 2 Maritime Bombing, or B.M., Stormi and one Gruppo B.M. with the Cant Z.506B, equivalent to 10 Squadriglias with 90 aircraft in total.  As planned, maritime bombing units should have represented roughly a 10% of Regia Aeronautica's total bombing strength.  Instead, no 506B was assigned by Programma R to any maritime recce unit." (Zorini, 13-14)

-- FF 06/28/1937 Stoppani. Exhibited at the 2nd Aeronautical Trade Fair (Salone Aeronautico Italiano) held in Milano [10/1937].  Delivered 11/1937. Entered service 06/1938 with 35 Stormo B.M. (Zorini, 14-16)

-- 3rd in military series given Alfa 127 RC55 700hp engines, developed from Alfa 126 to attempt new records; max speed 386 km/h. (Zorini, 16)

-- participated in Spanish Civil War. (Zorini, 28)

-- "During [06/1939] also the company Piaggio at Finale Ligure, started deliveries of Cant Z.506B's built under license ... on [11/01/1938] when General Francesco Pricolo was appointed Regia Aeronautica's Chief of Staff in the place of General Valle, 10 Squadriglias were equipped with Cant Z.506B's for a total of 80 aircraft, plus another 33 on order, almost reaching the quantity planned by Programma R. // Also the Polish Navy purchased 6 aircraft fitted with Alfa 128 RC21 engines, but only one ... delivered in time [08/1939], just to be destroyed by German air activity.  The remaining aircraft of the contract went to the Regia Aeronautica as 'X Serie'." (Zorini, 30)

-- "... after completion of the 'I Serie' (1st production batch) by CRDA and 'III Serie' by Piaggio, the bomb-aimer window was modified to a new more squared shape, increasing its glazed surface.  Defensive armament was increased by 2 extra 7.7mm machine-guns placed within 2 new rear fuselage positions, each formed by a forward streamlined fairing covering a rearward sliding panel.  Also in [11/1940] all R.M. units received a special supply of 7.7mm SAFAT machineguns for lateral defense of aircraft already in service, to be fitted as field modification. // Furtherly, starting from the 'XII Serie', the original top turret was replaced by a Caproni Lanciani Delta 'type E' armed with a 12.7mm Scotti machine gun.  Bomb load was increased to 1200kg and a D/F antenna was introduced, later to be protected by a streamlined blister.  Both radio and navigation ... were improved." (Zorini, 30-35)

-- "When Italy entered the war [06/10/1940], 94 Cant Z.506B's were on charge ... initially used by 35 Stormo, to bomb land targets in France and Tunisia, departing from Sardinian bases ... [more]." (Zorini, 35)

-- "In [07/1942], in consideration of the new heavy duties carried out by the Airones, the General Staff decided to install the 'De Luca booster' also on the Alfa 126 engines of the 506B's.  This device could increase power up to 880hp at 2300rpm. // However, the actual installation of this modification was limited only to the [SM.79's]. // ... military production [ended 01/1943] ... total 315 produced of B and S [ambulance] types, split up in 15 production batches ... [140 by CRDA and 175 by Piaggio]." (Zorini, 37-38)

-- ventral gun mount on Z.506B. (Flight Magazine 06/13/1940)

 

 

 

Tier V

 

Savoia-Marchetti SM.84 (06/1940) -- reluctant successor to SM.79 -- [307 built] -- Alessandro Marchetti -- entered service 1941​

Production	Airframe/Variant	Engine	Speed	Armament	Bombs/Torpedo
(FF 06/1940)	SM.84	III  3x Fiat A.74 RC.38 IV  3x Piaggio P.XI RC.40 1000hp (3-bladed variable-pitch)	456 km/h @ 5000m	4x12.7mm Scotti-Isotta Fraschini	up to 900kg
99th SM.84	​SM.84bis	3x Piaggio P.XIbis RC.40	467 km/h @ 5000m	4x12.7mm Scotti-Isotta Fraschini​	up to 900kg
MM.22497, formerly MM.484	SM.84ter	3x Piaggio P.XII 1500hp
MM.485		3x Piaggio P.XIX

Details: Gori

 

SM.84

-- intended successor to the SM.79 Sparviero.

​​-- "The SM.84 bomber, at first a special torpedo-carrying version of the Sparviero, was originally known as the SM.79bis, then SM.94, and finally SM.84 after the civil transport bearing the designation was abandoned.  Featuring a longer fuselage than the SM.79, and lacking the characteristic humpback, the prototype SM.84 bomber (SM.79bis) had twin fins and rudders and [3x Alfa Romeo 128 RC21 850hp radials]; it first flew in 1938.  The production models replaced Alfa [engines] with [3x Piaggio P.XI RC40 1000hp 14-cyl radials].  Defensive armament was [6x12.7mm], one each in a dorsal turret and ventral gondola, the remaining 4 firing from windows in the fuselage sides.  Normal offensive load was 2 torpedoes carried below the fuselage, or 4400 lb of bombs stored internally." (Thompson, 279)

-- "Although aerodynamically cleaner and better armed than the Sparviero ... not noticeably faster; in addition it suffered from inferior maneuverability and was generally disliked by crews.  Most of the [more than 100 built] were active against Mediterranean convoys between [11/1941-08/1942].  Based in Sicily ... participated in the operations against Malta ... enjoyed some successes, including a direct torpedo hit on the battleship Nelson, but losses were heavy.  By [09/1943] ... of 30 machines remaining only 15 were serviceable.  Those existing after the war were used by the Aeronautica Militair until broken up." (Thompson, 279-281)

-- "...weighed 19,465 lb empty and 29,235 lb loaded.  Maximum speed was 266 mph, cruising speed 247 mph, ceiling 29,512', and range 1130 miles.  Dimensions were: span 69 ft 6 5/8 in, length 58 ft 4 5/8 in, height 14 ft 9 1/8 in, and wing area 656.6 sq ft." (Thompson, 281)

-- "... a '79' airframe under construction, from the end of the 8th production series, was selected, and was assigned the MM.21493 and designated by the code 'Aereo 120'.  Among the more important innovations introduced [02/1938], the aircraft featured a twin fin tail and [3x Fiat A.74 RC38] engines.  Following ground testing, the aircraft was taken to the air on [06/171938] by Passaleva and Bertolotti, who were subsequently assisted by the pair of Prota and Maffezzoni in the laborious refining trials, which lasted until [10/12/1938], when the latter two flew the '120' to the 1 Centro Sperimentale at Guidonia. // In the meantime [07/1938], the DGCA, with evident confusion, decided that it should reject all the proposals presented by various manufacturers for the 'Bombardier Normale'.  Amongst these also figured a project from Savoia-Marchetti for a tri-motor designated SM.89.  At the end of 1938, the 'Costruzioni' also closed the 2nd stage competition for the 'Bombardiere Normale', perhaps reassured by the news supplied ... that according to their results ... 'at the moment the Cant Z.1007bis [is] certainly the bomber superior to all others in the force...' " (Gori, 4)

-- the SM.84 was thought to be merely an improved SM.79, yet finally designated as distinct and different as 'SM.84' at the beginning of 1940. (Gori, 5)

-- first flight 06/05/1940 by Passaleva, 5 days before Italy entered WW2. (Gori, 8)

-- acceptance flight 12/24/1940 by Passaleva. (Gori, 10)

-- [10/15/1941] loss of power on routine flight caused crash and loss of life for pilot Alessandro Passaleva, flight engineer Bertolotti, Cap. Pelli. (Gori, 5)

-- "Deliveries ... to operational units commenced in 1941 ... to be evaluated specifically for the torpedo attack role [later ordered also to be used in standard bomber configuration]." (Gori, 13; 27)

SM.84bis

-- FF 01/20/1942, MM.23975. (Gori, 11)

-- "... ordered ... to participate in a new cycle of attacks against the island of Malta, using the SM.84bis in bomber configuration.  The torpedo attack variant, on the contrary, remained in use ... whose personnel were sent ... for trials in the use of a new weapon (the 'Crocchi' torpedo), in which the Stato Maggiore was holding great faith." (Gori, 27)

SM.84ter

-- FF 01/26/1942, MM.484. (Gori, 11)

-- "...was not possible to initiate production, had an increased wingspan and area with a slight increase in performance." (Gori, 58)

 

technical description -- Gori, 55

 

 

 

CRDA Cant Z.1007bis Alcione (Kingfisher) -- (06/1939) -- actual successor to SM.79 -- [502 built] -- Filippo Zappata -- entered service 06/1940

Production	Airframe/Variant	Engine	Speed	Armament	Bombs/Torpedo
(FF 03/11/1937)	Cant Z.1007 prototype (MM20687)	3x Isotta-Fraschini Asso XI RC15  840hp	428 km/h
34 total	Cant Z.1007 Asso (MM20687-20704, MM21205-21220​)	3x Isotta-Fraschini Asso XI RC40  1000hp	430 km/h @ 5000m
(FF 06/06/1939)   402 by CRDA ​  100 by Breda	Cant Z.1007bis (MM20687​ re-engined)	IV  3x Piaggio P.XI RC40  1000hp	458 km/h @ 4600m
(FF 05/05/1941)​	Cant Z.1007bis (MM23366)	3x Alfa Romeo 128	409 km/h @ 3000m
(tested 05/09/1942)​ ​  150 by Piaggio ​  125 by CRDA	Cant Z.1007ter (MM24558)	3x Piaggio P.XIX RC45	490.5 km/h @ 6150m

Data: Garello.  3-view / anatomy

 

Background

-- "In Autumn 1933 the Italian aircraft engineer Filippo Zappata accepted the invitation extended by Air Minister Italo Balbo, resigned from the French Bleriot company and returned to his native country to become chief designer of the CRDA Aviation Works at Monfalcone, near Trieste.  The government-controlled IRI conglomerate had just absorbed the company and the arrival of Zappata led to a vast technical and organizational renewal, which resulted in a marked acceleration in its aviation activities. // A fresh start was required, for the Cantieri Riuniti dell'Adriatico (Combined Adriatic Shipworks, CRDA) had given up all original design work to concentrate on license production.  At the time ... about to complete the manufacture of 40 SIAI S.55 seaplanes and prepared to start work on a batch of 36 SM.81 landplane bombers that would be delivered between [09/1935-08/1936]. // Zappata launched into a feverish design work ..." (Garello, 3-4)

 

Cant Z.1007​ (FF 03/11/1937)

-- design by Fillipo Zappata

-- "... 1935 design ... took to the air on [03/11/1937] with the experienced CRDA chief test pilot Mario Stoppani at the controls."

-- "shared the same design concepts as the Cant Z.506, including the wooden structure, oval fuselage cross-section, the great trapeze-shaped wing with elliptical tips and the tandem cockpit arrangement." (Garello, 4)

-- 05/1937 Regia Aeronautica issued specifications to renew the main engine categories; relying on licenses up to that time.  For bombers, the Air Force sought 1500hp @ 3500m, but none of the 4 proposals submitted could meet it [AR 136 RC35, Fiat A.84 RC40, IF Asso 28 RC40, Piaggio P.XXII RC40], the only original layout being the IF A.28 [28 cylinders on 4 rows]; others all derived from other engines under development (Alfa 136) or already in the design phase (A.82 and P.XI/XII) ... In any case, no engine entered in the 1937 competition was ever certified -- much less did it enter production ... Of the 5 bomber types then in production [SM.81, SM.79, BR.20, P.32, Ca.135, P.32], only the SM.79 had advantage ... [Fiat] BR.20 won the 1934 competition but had limited capability due to troublesome A.80 engines. (Garello, 4-5)

-- Z.1007 ordered off the design table; batch of 18 (MM20687-20704) followed by another 16 (MM21205-21220). (Garello, 5)

-- production machines equipped with Asso XI RC40 1000hp engines; actual output 836hp @ 2250rpm @ 4000m; fitted with 3 different propeller types [details]. (Garello, 6)

-- "At the end of 1939 the 16th Stormo ... was based ... at Vicenza with a total of 31 Cant Z.1007 bombers split between the 50th Gruppo (210th and 211th Squadriglie) and the 51st (212th and 213th).  The Asso-powered aircraft were used mainly to practice formation flying, bombing and instrument and high altitude navigation.  When Italy entered the war [06/1940], the 16th Stormo was mobilized because the Cant Z.1007 was considered unfit for operations.  The unit continued to train and in late [07/1940] the 50th began receiving the first, eagerly awaited Cant Z.1007bis." (Garello, 18)

 

Cant Z.1007bis​ (FF 06/06/1939)

-- production commenced late 1938 at Monfalcone. First flight 06/06/1939, ferried to Guidonia 06/21/1939 by Stoppani. (Garello, 10)

-- "To take full advantage of the new opportunities offered by the P.XI engines, Zappata then completely reworked the Z.1007 to obtain a larger aircraft with greater operational capabilities.  The extensive changes warranted the new Z.1007bis designation.  The new engines alone pushed up empty weight by 400kg.  The increased dimensions and weights dictated major redesigns of the fuselage and engine nacelles, altering the external appearance.  The bombardier's cabin found a more rational position in the fuselage, forward of the bomb bay; defensive armament was improved by replacing the Breda I upper turret with a Caproni-Lanciani Delta type 1 and increasing the caliber of the belly gun.  Fuselage volume almost doubled, growing from 17 to 32.1 cubic meters.  The internal bomb load was similarly increased, from 500 to 900kg, to which the new version also added underwing racks.  Fuel capacity went from 4009 to 4270 liters.  The outmoded empennage bracing struts disappeared, replaced by four faired tubes supporting the horizontal tailplane alone." (Garello, 7-8)

-- "[Development followed by Air Staff with great interest] ... further order of 32 [08/03/1938] ... necessary to form a new Stormo ... [in order to form] a fast and homogenous landplane bomber division." (Garello, 9)

-- "The new trimotor was much more sophisticated than the SM.81 they were accustomed to [exceeded SM.79] ... the aircraft could hardly be born under a brighter star ... summer 1939 testing at Guidonia ... outcome quite positive ... [exceeded that of every other bomber in Italian service]." (Garello, 10-12)

-- "Asked to indicate the firms it thought best suited to build the Cant Z.1007bis, the General Directorate for Aeronautical Construction (DGCA) replied Reggiane and, as soon as it were ready, 'the coming Acerra factory, on account of its relationship with CRDA.'  This phrase probably referred to the factory later built at Pomigliano d'Arco by Alfa Romeo, controlled by IRI like CRDA ... [this exchange conveys] very effectively the great expectations that the new Zappata design raised in the Air Force." (Garello, 12)

-- "In [06/1940 the 47th Stormo (106th and 107th Gruppo) was based at Ghedi with 4 Cant Z.1007bis whose aircrew had just started using for transition training.  Aircraft deliveries accelerated during the summer, enabling the 106th Gruppo (260th and 261st Squadriglia) to move to its wartime base at Trapani-Milo.  It was from this Sicilian airfield that on [08/29/1940] the Alcione made its operational debut in [WW2], flying its first sorties in the long campaign against Malta." (Garello, 18-19)

-- "... upon entering service the Cant Z.1007bis immediately showed qualities that endeared it to its crews -- docile handling, stable platform, good low speed characteristics.  War experience proved that bombs were well placed, making for predictable trajectories that improved accuracy; defensive armament was also found adequate to keep enemy fighters at bay.  The Cant had its Achilles' heel in the wooden structure that, although extremely strong, was easily set on fire.  The outer skin, obtained by gluing several overlapping thin layers of 'tulipier' wood, was prone to delamination and warping when exposed to environmental shocks.  The Piaggio P.XI engines represented another weakness and required constant attention from the ground crews; the situation was somewhat improved with the introduction of the P.XIbis variant from aircraft MM23747 onwards." (Garello, 22-23)

-- "In [02/1941] IMAM, the Naples subsidiary of the Breda group, began delivering its first Z.1007bis.  The units receiving these aircraft soon complained that the performance of these aircraft almost invariably fell short of that offered by those originating from the Monfalcone production line.  The Guidonia Test Center was asked to verify ... concluding that performance [of the IMAM-produced Z.1007bis] was indeed inferior ..." (Garello, 23)

-- "The gradual increase of the Cant Z.1007bis production rate translated into greater availability, which in turn allowed several S.79 units to convert ..." (Garello, 26)

-- "The air and sea battles in the Mediterranean intensified in 1942, with Cant Z.1007bis units participating actively from their bases in Libya, Sardinia, Sicily and the Aegean.  By now the aircraft formed the backbone of the reconnaissance and bomber branches, equipping the majority of their units." (Garello, 35)

-- "... the combined monthly output of CRDA and IMAM seldom exceeded 20 Cant Z.1007bis aircraft." (Garello, 37)

-- "[Lt Vittorio Sanseverino], a veteran of the 256th Squadriglia, testifies that the 1007 could take great punishment and was not easily set on fire.  Sanseverino adds that an experienced Cant pilot could easily shake off a Beaufighter with a sudden dive, provided he received prompt warning of the enemy on his tail." (Garello, 37)

-- "Differing from the Z.1007 in that it has Piaggio P.XI RC40 two-row radials ... otherwise believed to be similar [as of 06/1940].  As in the previous ... main bomb load is stowed internally, though there are also wing racks.  Data: Span 81' 5" ... length 60' 5" ... stalling speed 84 mph ... climb to 13,120' 10:30." (Flight Magazine 06/13/1940); (Flight Magazine 06/20/1940)

 

Cant Z.1007ter (delivered 02/1943)

-- "From [02/1943] units began receiving at a painfully slow rate the Ter variant, powered by [Piaggio P.XIX 1175hp] engines that improved its speed, range and ceiling characteristics." (Garello, 41)

-- "To help friendly anti-aircraft artillery, ANR Z.1007's marked their fuselage with Luftwaffe crosses." (Garello, 44)

-- "Following the 1943 armistice, the Germans captured 88 Cant Z.1007's scattered on various airfields and factories, the richest booty coming from Vicenza and Trento with 17 and 21 aircraft respectively.  Luftwaffe operational units briefly used a few, no more than 4 in [01/1944-02/1944]; the presence with second line units was somewhat longer, averaging 5 aircraft monthly between [01/1944-09/1944]." (Garello, 45)

-- "In Northern Italy, on [06/15/1944] the Aeronautica Nazionale Repubblicana (ANR) formed the 'Ettore Muti' Autonomous Bomber Squadron, based at Lonate Pozzolo and equipped with 14 Cant Z.1007ter.  But ANR had little use for bombers and the unit was disbanded after a brief training period." (Garello, 46)

-- "Fitting the P.XIX required significant changes to the engine cowlings, with new tapered units replacing the previous cylindrical models.  Together with the new pointed spinners, these modifications gave the Cant Z.1007ter even sleeker lines." (Garello, 53)

-- "A report on work performed by the Piaggio factory [09/08/1943-04/25/1945] indicates that the company delivered 4 Cant Z.1007ter to the Regia Aeronautica and 8 to the ANR; the Germans later requisitioned 19 more, albeit lacking guns and armament installations." (Garello, 54)

 

versions and variant, armament details -- Garello, 47-54

 

Cant Z.516 -- return to floatplane, abandoned

-- "The most unusual ... variant was the floatplane derived from MM.23289 ... test flown by Stoppani [08/31/1940] with Zappata, Divari and Spinetta on board ... flown to Vigna di Valle seaplane test center [12[12[1/940] ... but the belated realization that seaplane bombers were a thing of the past caused the project to be abandoned.  After recording its performance, the MM.23289 was returned to landplane configuration." (Garello, 53)

 

 

 

Tier VI

 

CRDA Cant Z.1018 Leone (Lion) -- (____) -- Filippo Zappata -- entered service early 1943

 

 

Fiat A.83 RC.24 1250hp 18-cyl radial​

Piaggio P.XII RC.35 1400hp18-cyl radial​

Piaggio P.XV RC.45 1400hp18-cyl radial​

Alfa Romeo 135 RC.32 1400hp 18-cyl radial​

Fiat RA.1050 RC.58 Tifone (Typhoon) [DB605A-1]

 

-- "The Cant Z.1018 was the first Italian bomber with performance and armament comparable to the best German and Allied types, and it was unfortunate for the Regia Aeronautica that the production models began to appear too late in the conflict to have any noticeable effect on the outcome." (Thompson, 75)

-- "The last design by Ing. Zappata before he left Cant for Breda ... was the Z.1018 twin-engine medium bomber, probably the best bomber actually built in Italy during the war.  Although the first 6 examples were built of wood, the production Z.1018 contrasted with all its forebears by employing all-metal construction.  A number of different prototypes were built, incorporating [4 engine types listed] ... The first prototype, employing 4-bladed airscrews and twin fins and rudders, flew in 1940.  Subsequent changes, in addition to the variety of engines tested, included 3-bladed airscrews, a cockpit moved from behind the wing leading edge to a position ahead of the engines, and a single fin-and-rudder assembly." (Thompson, 73)

-- "The prototype Z.1018 bore little resemblance to the later production machines." (Thompson, 73)

-- "So exceptional was the performance of the Z.1018 that 300 production machines were ordered in 1941, to be powered by [Piaggio P.XII RC.35 1320hp 18-cyl radial] or [Alfa Romeo 135 RC.32 Tornado 1350hp 18-cyl radial] ... Given the name Leone (Lion), the Z.1018 carried a maximum bomb load of [6x550 lb] bombs and defended itself with [1x12.7mm] in a dorsal Caproni Lanciani Delta F turret, [1x12.7mm ventral], [2x7.7mm lateral].  An offensive forward-firing 12.7mm weapon was mounted in the starboard wing near the root." (Thompson, 75)

-- "By early 1943 a few ... reached the Regia Aeronautica, equipping the 101 Gruppo and 47 Stormo Bombardimento Terrestre, which was already operating Z.1007bis Alciones. However, the Leone saw little action, the Italian surrender coming only a short time later." (Thompson, 75)

-- "Maximum speed ... 323 mph, range 700-1367 miles ... ceiling 23,785' ... climbed to 6560' in 3:10 ... Span 73' 9 3/4", length 57' 9", height 19' 11.5", and wing area 679.2 sq ft." (Thompson, 75)

-- "The [Fiat A.83 RC.24 1250h 18-cyl radial] was also considered for installation on the Z.1018." (Thompson, 75)

 

Projected variants

-- "Projected but never built were two additional variants, a heavy day fighter with [7x20mm MG 151 (N) and 3x12.7mm defensive], and a night fighter with German Lichtenstein SN 2 radar mounted in the nose.  Estimated maximum speed of both models was 385 mph." (Thompson, 75)

 

 

Alfa Romeo 135 18-cylinder double-row air-cooled radial engine:

-- "The intensive research and development work carried out by the Alfa-Romeo has resulted in the production of a new engine of original design, the Alfa 135 RC32, which is considered to be one of the most powerful air-cooled aero-motors in the World [as of 1938]." (Jane's 1938, 66d)

Dimensions:

-- Diameter 1.315m

-- Length 1.818m for single-airscrew reduction gear; 2.20m for double-airscrew reduction gear

Weight (dry):

-- 885kg (1940 lbs)

Performance (87 octane):

-- 1500hp @ 2400rpm @ takeoff

-- 1240hp @ 2400rpm @ SL normal

-- 1350hp @ 2400rpm @ 3200m

(Data from Jane's 1938, 67d)

 

 

 

Tier VII

 

Breda BZ.301 (project) -- all-metal long-range medium bomber -- Filippo Zappata

 

-- see BZ.303

-- after the war Zappata designed the BZ.308 airliner (Flight Magazine 03/24/1949)

 

 

Caproni Bergamaschi Ca.365 (design)​ -- planned to use Isotta-Fraschini Zeta 24-cylinder X engine -- Cesare Pallavicino

 

--- "... a development of the Ca.135 projected with [2x Isotta-Fraschini Zeta R.C.42 1250hp X-24] engines, but it did not progress past the drawing board." (Thompson, 118)

 

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 19 October 2018 - 10:26 AM.

[J311yfish]

TRANSPORTS

-- another avenue to identify engine progression

 

ph

Edited by J311yfish, 09 November 2016 - 11:18 PM.

[J311yfish]

User Blockhaj announced an Italian tech tree project coming soon based on poll here.

 

Italy is currently in the lead with 26% of the vote (100/382).

 

Poll​:  What Nation would u like to see next?

26.18 % (100 votes) Italian 
23.04 % (88 votes) Poland
10.21 % (39 votes) Commonwealth (Australia & Canada)
7.33 % (28 votes) Sweden
6.28 % (24 votes) Yugoslavia
4.97 % (19 votes) Finland
4.71 % (18 votes) Benelux (The Netherlands & Belgium) (Unfinished)
4.19 % (16 votes) Spain
4.19 % (16 votes) China
3.93 % (15 votes) Czechoslovakia (Unfinished)
3.4 % (13 votes) Romania
1.57 % (6 votes) Argentina
382 total votes.

 

[J311yfish]

Some time ago there were some Italian tech tree projects posted at https://ritastatusreport.live/

 

Here they are:

-- part 1 -- Fiat fighters I-X

-- part 2 -- Caproni/Reggiane fighters II-X

-- part 3 -- Ambrosini/Aerfer VI-X

-- part 4 -- heavy fighters II-X

-- part 5 -- IMAM/Macchi/Piaggio fighters II-X

[jack_wdw]

J311yfish, on 30 November 2017 - 12:02 AM, said:

Some time ago there were some Italian tech tree projects posted at https://ritastatusreport.live/

 

Here they are:

-- part 1 -- Fiat fighters I-X

-- part 2 -- Caproni/Reggiane fighters II-X

-- part 3 -- Ambrosini/Aerfer VI-X

-- part 4 -- heavy fighters II-X

-- part 5 -- IMAM/Macchi/Piaggio fighters II-X

 

I like your tree better (with exception of the CR.42 which is way too fast for tier III, it really is and should be a tier IV bi-plane)

Fiat: CR.20 -> Cr.30 -> Cr.32 -> Cr.42 -> G.50 - > G.51/53 -> G.55 -> G.59/61 -> G.84 -> G.91

The other tiers should stop at tier VII.
The Re.2007 might be added as a Tier VIII/IX premium.

[J311yfish]

from Developer Blog 12/2017 Q&A - Part 1:

 

Q: When will we see an Italian Tech tree in the game, and could we possibly have Israeli planes as Premiums?

There are no plans to add whole Italian trees at the moment. Nevertheless, we might introduce some Premium machines at some point. As for Israeli air forces, since they never designed or produced any warplanes but used successful warplanes from other nations of that time, you might see similar aircraft under Israeli emblems in the game some day.

 

from Developer Blog 12/2017 Q&A - Part 3:

 

Q: Any plans to add more nation tech trees? Italy? Romania? More French planes? Or even add these to existing trees like the Australian planes in the UK tree?

I can’t say anything about full trees, but separate aircraft from other nations aside from those we currently have are probable.

 

 

[J311yfish]

Updated to give an approximation for bomber progression

 

 

[SlappedbyRommel]

Wow that's a lot of work done - nice so I take it the Italian plane is your favourite or you have OCD's but damn fine job. I would love to try this line

[J311yfish]

If Italian progression is never to be included in the game, then how might Italian aircraft show up in the game for other countries (such as imported or captured), if at all?

 

Here is a quick overview of that:

 

Tier	Aircraft	Country
I	Fiat CR.20 Fiat CR.30	Germany Germany
II	Fiat CR.32 Savoia-Marchetti SM.81 Pipistrello (Bat) Fiat BR.1, BR.2 Fiat BR.3	Germany China Sweden China
III	Fiat CR.42 Falco (Falcon) Breda Ba.27 Metallico Savoia-Marchettia SM.79 Sparviero (Sparrowhawk) Fiat BR.20 Cicogna (Stork)	Germany China Germany China, Japan
IV	Fiat G.50 Freccia (Arrow) Caproni Ca.313 Caproni Ca.313F Caproni Ca.313G Caproni Ca.315 Savoia-Marchettia SM.79 Sparviero (Sparrowhawk) CRDA Cant Z.506B Airone ​(Heron) Savoia-Marchetti SM.84	Germany Sweden France Germany (346 produced for Germany) Germany Germany Germany Germany
V	Macchi C.200 Saetta (Thunderbolt) Reggiane Re.2000 Falco I (Falcon) Caproni Ca.331 Raffica (Squall) CRDA Cant Z.1007bis Alcione (Kingfisher)	Germany Germany, Sweden Germany (planned production) Germany
VI	Macchi C.202 Folgore (Lightning) Macchi C.205 Veltro (Greyhound)	Germany Germany
VII	Fiat G.55 Centauro (Centaur) Messerschmitt Bf 109G	Germany (planned production) Germany
VIII	Reggiane Re.2005 Sagittario (Archer)	Germany
IX	Arado Ar 234	Germany
X	Arado Ar 234 Fiat G.91	Germany Germany, U.S.A.

 

This is just to demonstrate that inclusion of Italian aircraft as premiums alone could be a viable way to get them in the game!

 

Edited by J311yfish, 31 October 2018 - 01:02 AM.

[LBAEZ]

impressive research there bud