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[spoiler] what the Italian tech tree could look like

Italy Fiat Macchi Reggiane Savoia-Marchetti Breda IMAM Caproni CANSA CRDA

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J311yfish #1 Posted 03 October 2014 - 09:09 AM

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Aircraft Details (scroll down) Alternates II-IV / Alternates V-IX Foreign / Captured Production locations / Quantities Campini

Placeholder

Designers Designs Airfoils / Engines Climb Rates Armament Operational locations / Timelines Bombers Transports

work in progress

 

Accountability (tiers approx):

 

Omitted:

 

Sources:

 

Further Refinement:

 

Older versions:

 


Edited by J311yfish, 19 October 2018 - 08:08 AM.

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Historical scenarios:  Spanish Civil War (skins•  Invasion of Poland  •  Winter War  •  Continuation War

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J311yfish #2 Posted 03 October 2014 - 09:10 AM

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Example (first flight date MM/YYYY)

 


 

 

Tier I

 

Fiat CR.20 (09/1926) -- Celestino Rosatelli -- 541 built -- [ref: NiD-62 (01/1928)] -- delivered 1927-1933

 

Fiat CR.30 (03/1932)​ -- Celestino Rosatelli -- 121 built -- further developed as CR.32 and CR.40 -- [ref: Ar 65 (1932), MS.225 (1932)] -- delivered 1933-1934

 

 


Edited by J311yfish, 26 October 2018 - 03:02 PM.

Tech tree projects:   JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  //  ITALY    FRANCE  //  SWEDEN    Finland (skins)

Historical projects:  UNITED STATES   GERMANY  •  Poland  //  USSR  //  Retired projects:  China    Brazil

Historical scenarios:  Spanish Civil War (skins•  Invasion of Poland  •  Winter War  •  Continuation War

Map proposals:   Panama Canal    Great Wall of China    Cliffs of Dover   //  Clan:  343 Kokutai  //  Tutorial How to ignore forum posts and signatures


J311yfish #3 Posted 03 October 2014 - 09:10 AM

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Tier II

 

Fiat CR.32 (04/1933) -- [1003 built] -- reference: He 51 (II), I-15 (II), Ki-10 (II) -- Celestino Rosatelli -- delivered 1935+

 

IMAM Ro.37 Lince (Lynx)​ -- (11/1933) -- [617 built] -- reference: Hawker Demon (II) -- Giovanni Galasso

 

Caproni Bergamaschi A.P.1 (04/1934) -- [57 built] -- Cesare Pallavicino -- delivered ~1935

 


Edited by J311yfish, 26 October 2018 - 03:04 PM.

Tech tree projects:   JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  //  ITALY    FRANCE  //  SWEDEN    Finland (skins)

Historical projects:  UNITED STATES   GERMANY  •  Poland  //  USSR  //  Retired projects:  China    Brazil

Historical scenarios:  Spanish Civil War (skins•  Invasion of Poland  •  Winter War  •  Continuation War

Map proposals:   Panama Canal    Great Wall of China    Cliffs of Dover   //  Clan:  343 Kokutai  //  Tutorial How to ignore forum posts and signatures


J311yfish #4 Posted 03 October 2014 - 09:11 AM

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Tier III

 

Fiat CR.42 Falco (Falcon)  (05/1938, from CR.40-41 1934-1937) -- [1782 built] -- ref: F3F (III), Gladiator -- Celestino Rosatelli -- delivered 04/1939+

 

Caproni Bergamaschi Ca.310 Libeccio (Southwest Wind) -- (04/1937 from Ca.308 1935) -- [1600+ built in series] -- ref: Ao 192 (II), Fw 57 (III) -- Cesare Pallavicino -- entered service 08/1939

 

Breda Ba.65 (09/1935) -- [218 built] -- Giuseppe Panzeri and Antonio Parano -- entered service 10/1935

 

 


 

 

Breda Ba.27 Metallico (06/1934; to China 1935+) (III) -- [12 built] -- reference: Boeing P-26 (II)

 


Edited by J311yfish, 26 October 2018 - 03:09 PM.

Tech tree projects:   JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  //  ITALY    FRANCE  //  SWEDEN    Finland (skins)

Historical projects:  UNITED STATES   GERMANY  •  Poland  //  USSR  //  Retired projects:  China    Brazil

Historical scenarios:  Spanish Civil War (skins•  Invasion of Poland  •  Winter War  •  Continuation War

Map proposals:   Panama Canal    Great Wall of China    Cliffs of Dover   //  Clan:  343 Kokutai  //  Tutorial How to ignore forum posts and signatures


J311yfish #5 Posted 03 October 2014 - 09:11 AM

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Tier IV

 

Fiat G.50 Freccia (Arrow)  (02/1937) -- [791 built] -- reference Ki-43-I (IV), MS.406 -- Giuseppe Gabrielli -- operational testing 1938+

 

Caproni Ca.314C (10/1942 from Ca.310 04/1937) -- [407 built A, B, C] -- Cesare Pallavicino -- delivered after 10/1942

 

Breda Ba.88 Lince (Lynx)   (02/1937) -- [148 built] -- reference: Bf 110B (IV), Fw 189 (IV) -- twin-engine two-seat attack bomber -- Giuseppe Panzeri and Antonio Parano -- delivered late 1938

 


Edited by J311yfish, 26 October 2018 - 03:10 PM.

Tech tree projects:   JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  //  ITALY    FRANCE  //  SWEDEN    Finland (skins)

Historical projects:  UNITED STATES   GERMANY  •  Poland  //  USSR  //  Retired projects:  China    Brazil

Historical scenarios:  Spanish Civil War (skins•  Invasion of Poland  •  Winter War  •  Continuation War

Map proposals:   Panama Canal    Great Wall of China    Cliffs of Dover   //  Clan:  343 Kokutai  //  Tutorial How to ignore forum posts and signatures


J311yfish #6 Posted 03 October 2014 - 09:12 AM

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Tier V

 

Macchi C.200 Saetta (Thunderbolt)  (12/1937) -- reference Ki-43-II (V), D.520 -- Mario Castoldi -- entered service 1939+

 

Reggiane Re.2000 Falco I (Falcon)  (05/1939) -- unlicensed development of P-35 (III); reference: F4F (V) -- Roberto Longhi -- exported 1941; entered service 1942

 

Caproni Bergamaschi Ca.331 Raffica (Squall) -- (08/1940) -- twin-engine light reconnaissance/bomber/night-fighter -- Cesare Pallavicino

 

Fiat/CANSA FC.20 (04/1941) -- [10 built] -- assault -- reference Hs 129 (V) -- Giacomo Mosso -- entered service 05/1943

 


Edited by J311yfish, 26 October 2018 - 02:50 PM.

Tech tree projects:   JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  //  ITALY    FRANCE  //  SWEDEN    Finland (skins)

Historical projects:  UNITED STATES   GERMANY  •  Poland  //  USSR  //  Retired projects:  China    Brazil

Historical scenarios:  Spanish Civil War (skins•  Invasion of Poland  •  Winter War  •  Continuation War

Map proposals:   Panama Canal    Great Wall of China    Cliffs of Dover   //  Clan:  343 Kokutai  //  Tutorial How to ignore forum posts and signatures


J311yfish #7 Posted 03 October 2014 - 09:12 AM

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Tier VI

 

Macchi C.202 Folgore (Lightning)  (08/1940) -- [~1150 built] -- reference: Spitfire V (Tier VI), Ki-61 (VI) -- Mario Castoldi -- entered service 07/1940

 

Reggiane Re.2001 Falco II (Falcon)  (07/1940; confirm) -- [226 built] -- Roberto Longhi, Antonio Alessio -- delivered ~1942

 

Savoia-Marchetti SM.91/92 (03/1943, 10/1943; confirm) -- long-range escort fighter -- reference P-38J (VI), Me 410 (VI) -- Alessandro Marchetti

 

Savoia-Marchetti SM.89 (09/1941) -- [1 built] -- assault -- reference Ju 88P (VI) -- Alessandro Marchetti

 


Edited by J311yfish, 26 October 2018 - 03:15 PM.

Tech tree projects:   JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  //  ITALY    FRANCE  //  SWEDEN    Finland (skins)

Historical projects:  UNITED STATES   GERMANY  •  Poland  //  USSR  //  Retired projects:  China    Brazil

Historical scenarios:  Spanish Civil War (skins•  Invasion of Poland  •  Winter War  •  Continuation War

Map proposals:   Panama Canal    Great Wall of China    Cliffs of Dover   //  Clan:  343 Kokutai  //  Tutorial How to ignore forum posts and signatures


J311yfish #8 Posted 03 October 2014 - 09:13 AM

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Tier VII

 

Fiat G.55 Centauro (Centaur) (04/1942) -- reference Bf 109G (VII) -- Giuseppe Gabrielli -- delivered 08/1943+

 

Piaggio P.119 (12/1942) -- Giovanni Casiraghi

 

Caproni Bergamaschi Ca.380 Corsaro (Corsair)  (prototype incomplete 09/1943) -- twin-engined, twin-boom, high-altitude two-seat fighter bomber -- ref: Bf 109Z (VII) -- Pallavicino

 

Breda BZ.303/304 Leone (Lion) -- (prototype incomplete 09/1943) -- Filippo Zappata

 


Edited by J311yfish, 26 October 2018 - 03:16 PM.

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Historical projects:  UNITED STATES   GERMANY  •  Poland  //  USSR  //  Retired projects:  China    Brazil

Historical scenarios:  Spanish Civil War (skins•  Invasion of Poland  •  Winter War  •  Continuation War

Map proposals:   Panama Canal    Great Wall of China    Cliffs of Dover   //  Clan:  343 Kokutai  //  Tutorial How to ignore forum posts and signatures


J311yfish #9 Posted 03 October 2014 - 09:14 AM

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Tier VIII

 

Reggiane Re.2005 Sagittario (Archer) (05/1942) -- reference MiG I-250 (VIII) -- Roberto Longhi

 


Edited by J311yfish, 13 November 2016 - 11:40 PM.

Tech tree projects:   JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  //  ITALY    FRANCE  //  SWEDEN    Finland (skins)

Historical projects:  UNITED STATES   GERMANY  •  Poland  //  USSR  //  Retired projects:  China    Brazil

Historical scenarios:  Spanish Civil War (skins•  Invasion of Poland  •  Winter War  •  Continuation War

Map proposals:   Panama Canal    Great Wall of China    Cliffs of Dover   //  Clan:  343 Kokutai  //  Tutorial How to ignore forum posts and signatures


J311yfish #10 Posted 03 October 2014 - 09:15 AM

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Tier IX

 

Aerfer Sagittario 2 (Archer 2)  (05/1956)-- Sergio Stefanutti

 

Fiat G.82  (05/1954; confirm) -- Giuseppe Gabrielli

 

Arado Ar 234 variant

 


Edited by J311yfish, 13 November 2016 - 01:28 PM.

Tech tree projects:   JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  //  ITALY    FRANCE  //  SWEDEN    Finland (skins)

Historical projects:  UNITED STATES   GERMANY  •  Poland  //  USSR  //  Retired projects:  China    Brazil

Historical scenarios:  Spanish Civil War (skins•  Invasion of Poland  •  Winter War  •  Continuation War

Map proposals:   Panama Canal    Great Wall of China    Cliffs of Dover   //  Clan:  343 Kokutai  //  Tutorial How to ignore forum posts and signatures


J311yfish #11 Posted 03 October 2014 - 09:15 AM

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Tier X

 

Aerfer Ariete (Ram)  (03/1958) -- Sergio Stefanutti

 

Fiat G.91  (08/1956) -- design team headed by Giuseppe Gabrielli

 

 

 

Tier X alternates

 


Edited by J311yfish, 13 November 2016 - 01:31 PM.

Tech tree projects:   JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  //  ITALY    FRANCE  //  SWEDEN    Finland (skins)

Historical projects:  UNITED STATES   GERMANY  •  Poland  //  USSR  //  Retired projects:  China    Brazil

Historical scenarios:  Spanish Civil War (skins•  Invasion of Poland  •  Winter War  •  Continuation War

Map proposals:   Panama Canal    Great Wall of China    Cliffs of Dover   //  Clan:  343 Kokutai  //  Tutorial How to ignore forum posts and signatures


J311yfish #12 Posted 12 October 2014 - 06:16 PM

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First update:

-- this is a rough draft (i.e. starting point) based on the extensive work done by Demon93IT, and Raptor_Fulcrum's investigation into jet projects that did not materialize.

-- aircraft in transparent/gray color are those that did not proceed beyond the project stage.

-- there are some omissions (such as single-engine dive bombers) for now but it will grow in refinement as the main aircraft are solidified with detail.

-- progress from here involves German engine benchmarks for tiers IV-VIII, gathering details, refinement.

-- Breda Ba.27M (premium for China) as a benchmark implies that Fiat CR.40/41 might be tier III (same engine), and Fiat CR.42's first flight date (15 months after Fiat G.50suggests that it might be placed at tier IV (same engine).  If these considerations are adhered to, then the major implication is that the CR.42 might be granted use of the experimental DB.601 and/or 20mm cannons to fight obsolescence.

 


Edited by J311yfish, 12 October 2014 - 06:29 PM.

Tech tree projects:   JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  //  ITALY    FRANCE  //  SWEDEN    Finland (skins)

Historical projects:  UNITED STATES   GERMANY  •  Poland  //  USSR  //  Retired projects:  China    Brazil

Historical scenarios:  Spanish Civil War (skins•  Invasion of Poland  •  Winter War  •  Continuation War

Map proposals:   Panama Canal    Great Wall of China    Cliffs of Dover   //  Clan:  343 Kokutai  //  Tutorial How to ignore forum posts and signatures


Raindrops #13 Posted 13 October 2014 - 01:41 PM

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A treat for those looking for more Italian in the forums: The old Italian discussion section, now archived away from normal view.

 

Still looking forward to Italians - hopefully they'll come soon after the French, as they're supposed to be around the end of the year. Of course, I do still want more Japanese before either nation, though.


I never said I was good.

USA needs GA too.


J311yfish #14 Posted 13 October 2014 - 03:15 PM

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ENGINES

 

Italian engines

 

German engines -- benchmarks in-game (Daimler-Benz)

 

Engine comparison -- lateral, rough

 

 

 


Edited by J311yfish, 13 November 2016 - 01:13 PM.

Tech tree projects:   JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  //  ITALY    FRANCE  //  SWEDEN    Finland (skins)

Historical projects:  UNITED STATES   GERMANY  •  Poland  //  USSR  //  Retired projects:  China    Brazil

Historical scenarios:  Spanish Civil War (skins•  Invasion of Poland  •  Winter War  •  Continuation War

Map proposals:   Panama Canal    Great Wall of China    Cliffs of Dover   //  Clan:  343 Kokutai  //  Tutorial How to ignore forum posts and signatures


Demon93IT #15 Posted 13 October 2014 - 03:42 PM

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You're doing a great job considering the fact that WG hasn't helped with the Ba.27. I'm looking foward to see how your work will end up since mine got messed up by that plane and i don't really want to restart all over again, especially since i still consider the Ba.27 out of place.

J311yfish #16 Posted 04 December 2014 - 09:45 PM

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Shared designs/concepts: 

-- The goal is to track technological advancement with precision to see how that might be reflected in the tech tree beyond simple placement at each tier.

-- These details are not revealed through specifications but rather through close reading and cross-referencing of development narratives.

 

Airfoils

 

Wings

 

Control surfaces

 

Fuselage

 

Engine and Propellers

 

Armament

 

Undercarriage

 

Electronics

 

Designers by Manufacturer

 
 

Edited by J311yfish, 06 November 2016 - 08:12 PM.

Tech tree projects:   JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  //  ITALY    FRANCE  //  SWEDEN    Finland (skins)

Historical projects:  UNITED STATES   GERMANY  •  Poland  //  USSR  //  Retired projects:  China    Brazil

Historical scenarios:  Spanish Civil War (skins•  Invasion of Poland  •  Winter War  •  Continuation War

Map proposals:   Panama Canal    Great Wall of China    Cliffs of Dover   //  Clan:  343 Kokutai  //  Tutorial How to ignore forum posts and signatures


J311yfish #17 Posted 23 May 2015 - 03:21 PM

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ALTERNATES

-- lesser aircraft as potential premiums

 

Tier II

 

Tier III

 

Tier IV

 


Edited by J311yfish, 24 May 2018 - 02:48 PM.

Tech tree projects:   JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  //  ITALY    FRANCE  //  SWEDEN    Finland (skins)

Historical projects:  UNITED STATES   GERMANY  •  Poland  //  USSR  //  Retired projects:  China    Brazil

Historical scenarios: