Jump to content


The Art of War in WoWP

tactics strategy

  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

ViolentAngel #1 Posted 23 September 2014 - 04:00 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 0 battles
  • 1,809
  • Member since:
    12-03-2013

While moving a bookshelf from the downstairs to the upstairs, I ran across my old copy of The Art of War. I hadn't seen it in probably a decade! Flipping around to random pages I was quickly getting absorbed, and after a while thought: wouldn't it be fun to start a thread on game tactics based on these ancient and wise principals? For those of you not familiar with this work, I recommend checking it out. The principals contained within it relate not only to military strategy, but are presented in such a way to be broadly applicable to "conflict" in general.

 

Let's start it off with an easy one.

 

"One skilled at moving the enemy

Forms and the enemy must follow,

Offers and the enemy must take.

Move them by this and await them with troops."

 

 

One example I have for this came in very handy when I made a series of mistakes in my Spitfire XIV and got myself into a bit of trouble with an A7M and an F4U-4, with no friendly planes around.  I had to find a way to survive this predicament, and quick!  If I could lead my pursuers to the group of warships and their devastating AA fire, I just might make it...

 

 

There is not one correct (or even literal) application of this or other principals in The Art of War, so what I would love is for you to provide other examples of how this has been applied in WoWP, either by you individually or as a team. Feel fee to link to other posts, videos, replays, map tactics, or simply describe it in your words.

 

Have fun with it while teaching others and sharing your experience!

 


"Fiery the Angels rose, & as they rose deep thunder roll’d"

-- William Blake


Kiwiav8r #2 Posted 23 September 2014 - 04:32 AM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 119 battles
  • 729
  • [ACES_] ACES_
  • Member since:
    09-26-2013

The problem with the Art of War is, it mainly focuses on strategy, which is kinda irrelevant to WOWP.

 

I would point people in the direction of the Dicta Boelcke, as the straight forward and easy to understand rules therein provide sound tactical advice that works in the game.


"Credibility down, Kill Ratio up!" - Joe 'Hoser' Satrapa

Aces (pre v1.9):  Bulldog, A4N, Hawk III, F2A-1, I-16(e), Skua, Ar68, A6M1, P-36, XF4F-3, Bf-109B, Bf-110B, Bf-110 C6, Blenheim, Bf-109E, Bf-110E, P-40, P-40 M105, XFL-1, Spitfire I, M.20, Beaufighter, IL-2 (mod), XF4U-1, Mosquito, P-51A, Yak-7, Yak-1M, Bf-109F, La-5, Spitfire V, Me-410, F4U-1, Fw-190 A5, Yak-9, XP-50, P-39Q-15, Mustang Mk 1, P-38J, P-51D, Yak-9U, Bf-109G, La-7, Spitfire IX, A7M, Fw-190D, F7F, Yak-15, Me-262


Lou #3 Posted 23 September 2014 - 04:33 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 3 battles
  • 1,152
  • [DRACS] DRACS
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

"So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself."

 

Know your planes capability's, and play as many as you can so you get a idea of what you face.

Know your capability's and try to fly a style of plane that suits what you like or do well:

Boom &zoom, turn & burn or GA.

 

And

 

"All armies prefer high ground to low and sunny places to dark."

 

High Ground? I'll take it in a air combat game, sun= visibility

 

Good topic dude!



WanderingGhost #4 Posted 23 September 2014 - 04:49 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 6 battles
  • 1,041
  • [S-S-G] S-S-G
  • Member since:
    01-27-2014

One of those thing I haven't gotten to read in full but want to at some point. However, this one I know and always sticks out in this game.

 

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” 
― Sun TzuThe Art of War

 

Know the enemy and know yourself. - There are some pilots in game who generally fly one plane/tech tree/type, at a couple tiers, the same way, every time. They do not deviate from these tactics they employ in the game even if they need to adapt them in order to win. When I see them several times a day, and they repeat it, I look at my plane, I look at the tactic they intend to employ, and look for them to repeat it again. And generally, if it comes to me vs them, generally I win (because I don't always expect to suddenly be out numbered). I've even seen teams see a pilot or flight employ the same tactic and work to defeat it.

 

Know yourself but not the enemy - Honestly you can see this in play in my stats, I don't always know my enemy, but typically, I know myself and my plane. Generally, I'm able to make sure I at least take someone down, before being taken down myself.

 

Not knowing yourself nor your enemy - There have been several instances of this. Be it jumping in to a battle and not realizing my set up, a new plane that behaves very different from others in it, or particularly in my case the 190 line. For a good while I struggled with the 190v, and then the A-5, which I thought would solve my issues thinking it was just the v being under gunned. After several matches made a post with my feelings that it was underpowered with it's high turn time for a fighter (I do believe that they can lower it to a point that in a continuous turn it's not being out turned by heavy fighters, particularly certain set ups that are a little lighter in firepower). However, useful response in the thread explaining what I was basically doing wrong in trying to fly it like a normal light fighter and BnZ. Took the advice, and once I got used to it, started seeing the results shift because now I knew myself and my plane, even if I didn't always know the enemy.


Aces/Destroyer/Ace(post1.9)(#of/#) - A6M1(7/1), P-36(1), BF-109b(3), Ao-192(1), beaufighter(3/1), BF-109z(2), P-12(2), A6M2(3), P-51a(4), Yak-7(2), Bf-110C-6(2), F4F(2/4), Blenheim(2), BSH-2(1), XP-50(1),  BF-109f(1), LA-5(1), Spitfire I(2), P-40 M-105(3), BF-110e(1), F4U-1(1), FW-190 A-5(4), I-16e.(1), XF4F-3(1), A6M5(5), F7F(1), XF4U-1(1), Bf-109E (1), A7M (2), I-16l (1), P-38f (1), P-40 (1), Mig-3 (1)


MisterWolfe #5 Posted 23 September 2014 - 11:34 AM

    Master Sergeant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 0 battles
  • 47
  • [RTSB] RTSB
  • Member since:
    10-31-2012

"Fight the Enemy where they aren't"

 

As a GA plane, hit enemy ground targets the furthest from enemy plane concentrations, where you can quickly rack up points to help your team with supremacy and force them to engage your fighters foolishly in an attempt to fight through them and stop your depredations.


!!!!:playing:!!!!MORE DAKKA!!!!:playing:!!!!

ViolentAngel #6 Posted 24 September 2014 - 01:28 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 0 battles
  • 1,809
  • Member since:
    12-03-2013

"Because they could not hear each other, they made drums and bells.

Because they could not see each other, they made flags and pennants.

Therefore, in day battle use more flags and pennants; in night battle use more drums and bells.

Drums and bells, flags and pennants are the means by which one unifies the ears and eyes of the people.

Once the people have been tightly unified, the brave have no chance to advance alone, the cowardly have no chance to retreat alone.

This is the method of employing the many."

 

Organizing a team through communication is a key component of winning battles in WoWP. In the very next verse, Sun Tzu warns:

 

"Do not engage well-ordered pennants."

 

Teams that communicate well (even ones made up entirely of random players), tend to do much better overall than teams where everyone is trying to guess at the strategy or just run off on their own. The first thing to learn about communicating with your team in WoWP is understanding the various flags, pennants, drums, and bells you have at your disposal.

 

Here is a link to Wargaming's Guide to Battle Controls.

 

The most important and often used are the battle chat, chat commands and mini-map. Learn to use these HUD controls as soon as possible - first by paying attention to what your team mates are "saying", and then using them to coordinate the team yourself. The caveat here is that anyone on your team can issue commands - as you gain experience you will be able to discern between good ones and ones you should ignore or outright counter with your own commands. Use the Roger! (F5) and Negative! (F6) keys to quickly communicate your acceptance or rejection of the command. As your mastery of the game increases, you'll be able to more easily recognize good ideas from bad ones and even lead a team of 15 randos to victory.

 

Voice Chat is available in game as well as through many third-party tools (such as teamspeak3) that many players use to enhance communication while they are in a flight together (i.e. platoon, squad). The voice chat allows them to communicate more quickly and with more detail than using battle chat alone. Good players in a flight using voice chat can be an incredibly effective force!  The level of coordination between those players can be far superior to anyone else in the match. However, the caveat here is that it is easy for the players in flight on voice chat to isolate themselves from the rest of their team - this makes their team vulnerable and the flight could easily find themselves outnumbered when the rest of their team is destroyed. When using voice chat with your flight-mates, always be sure to continue to communicate strategies and intentions with the rest of the players on your team.

 

Finally, the two biggest obstacles to keeping "well-ordered pennants" are: 1) silence/lack of communication, and 2) distracting spam/chatter. Try to keep these in check as much as possible - even minimal comms using the quick-key chat commands is far better than nothing at all, but too much can be more confusing than helpful. Finding the right balance is key and fortunately it doesn't take long to learn.

 

 


"Fiery the Angels rose, & as they rose deep thunder roll’d"

-- William Blake


losttwo #7 Posted 24 September 2014 - 09:21 AM

    which way do we go?

  • Community Ace
  • 0 battles
  • 12,612
  • [S-S-G] S-S-G
  • Member since:
    05-15-2012

Been so many years since last  I read any thing tactical.

From Gettysburg to SunTzu

From Camouflage to propaganda.

Every society has employed their Trojan Horse.

 

To sum up a simple game such as this

We have command keys to make up for lack of voice.

Take the altitude, take the masses.

Never be out numbered by your enemy.

Learn survival instinct and always remember.

THE GUNS ARE IN THE FRONT OF THE PLANE.

 

Like Ramius said in Hunt for Red October " One Ping Only "

 



ViolentAngel #8 Posted 02 October 2014 - 03:10 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 0 battles
  • 1,809
  • Member since:
    12-03-2013

Awareness and flexibility.

 

"Pwun-pwun. Hwun-hwun.

The fight is chaotic, yet one is not subject to chaos.

Hwun-hwun. Dwun-dwun.

One's form is round and one cannot be defeated."

 

So you find yourself in a fur-ball, planes are zipping by left, right, above and below, tracers everywhere. Do you pursue the closest plane? Try to finish off the almost-dead guy? What about clearing an ally's tail? What's on your tail? Which side has more planes? Which ones are a threat?

 

In this, and many other situations, a lot of players will block out the chaos around them by locking their sites on a single target and staying with it no matter what else is happening. This is called Target Fixation - and it's the #1 killer in this game. Once you focus all of your awareness on a single target, you lose track of all else and become easy pickin's for the enemy. In a dog-fight or while searching for a target to dive down on, you should try to make sense of the madness by dividing it into smaller, more comprehensible parts. Which planes are in duels they cannot win? Who's boom-n-zooming in and out? Which enemy has 3 of your guys tied up? Who's the greatest threat? If you dive down on that guy, how many of his friends are going to pop right onto your tail?

 

Awareness is a constant and rapid assessment and reassessment of the situation. You can stay on a bogey's tail while simultaneously dodging fire. You can quickly and easily break off an engagement when you no longer have the advantage. You can let one target go to pick the new, more dangerous threat or easy kill. You can lead the guy tailing you into friendly gun sights. You can switch from a BnZ attack to turn fight and break out of a turn fight by running or diving. You can turn those ground-pounding cannons on a nearby enemy plane harassing your buddy. This is flexibility, this is having a "round form."  You are not confused by the chaos around you because you perceive it not as chaos, but as rapidly shifting order.

 

And when you see order of the moment, you are not subject to the chaos. You respond, react appropriately, flexibly, and with purpose.


"Fiery the Angels rose, & as they rose deep thunder roll’d"

-- William Blake


Johnny_Wishbone #9 Posted 03 October 2014 - 05:22 AM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 86 battles
  • 240
  • Member since:
    07-02-2013

View PostKiwiav8r, on 22 September 2014 - 09:32 PM, said:

The problem with the Art of War is, it mainly focuses on strategy, which is kinda irrelevant to WOWP.

 

I would point people in the direction of the Dicta Boelcke, as the straight forward and easy to understand rules therein provide sound tactical advice that works in the game.

 

I'm going to have to disagree.

 

Chapter One

 A military operation involves deception. Even though you are competent, appear to be incompetent. Though effective, appear to be ineffective.

 

Sounds pretty applicable.

There is a lot in there that pertains exclusively to strategic thought, I agree, but there's just as much that is applicable at every level.



steelhealer #10 Posted 03 October 2014 - 01:47 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 0 battles
  • 154
  • Member since:
    12-26-2013

Boelcke, shmoelcke.

 

 

1)" Fake right, go left":  use flying skills and terrain to your advantage

 

2) "Watch my tail, not hers":  forget the heavy or single fighter, save your teammate. It is the single best maneuver to winning a match

 

3) "Ooops, there it is...Oops there it is";  after getting shot up by the rear gunner when you chase the GA and his teammates dive on you while you doggedly persist in shooting the heavy down first, have you had enough yet? Fighters first.

 

4) "Speak softly but carry a big stick":  if they continue to insist on ramming  you or doing a head on vs doing it with flying skills, eliminate them from the game with your twin 30's 

 

5) "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.": know the ship you are flying, it's strengths and weaknesses; if you go vertical at high altitude in an A6, you're going down.

 

6) "Beware the hun in the sun"; "have a rubber neck": comments from a WWII fighter manual. Use your HUD, check your radar and know who's behind you. Veer off on occasion when your teammate is near and avoid a crash.

 

7) RE2PECT: Credit where credit is due. Congratulating a fellow pilot following a grueling fight and loss will go miles towards your reputation; let your teammate get the ACE when you are neck and neck for the last opponent and his 5th potential kill

 

8) "Better a little in safety, than an abundance in danger": Circling over one's AA is one of the worst recommended tactics IMO. The swarm will get you.

 

9) "He chose....poorly." Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade." Give some credence to advice from seasoned flyers. If they tell you to fly south, there is probably a reason.

 

10) "Might makes right."  Aren't you tired of seeing 15 red triangles coming at you?. Group up.

 

And finally: 

"Revenge is a dish best served cold." Command respect, fly well, fight the good fight, lest you find the entire opposing team selecting YOU with 'X'

 

SH

 


Edited by steelhealer, 03 October 2014 - 01:52 PM.


603rd BG 398th BS

“A coward dies a thousand times before his death, but the valiant taste of death but once. "
"Have a rubber neck and beware the hun in the sun".


 

Bear_1947 #11 Posted 10 October 2014 - 11:00 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 43 battles
  • 389
  • [GWG] GWG
  • Member since:
    03-21-2014

"The Art of War", "The Book of The Five Rings" , "Dicta Boelcke"  etcetera. etcetera  are great reads and are great guidelines, NOT set in stone principles. They give you a place to start to build your own "Rules of Engagement". Historically you have to look about what and why they were written. Boelcke's Dicta was written for World War One combat and its principles have been modified  and modernized for aerial combat today. Another great pilot was Baron Von Richthofen. He equated aerial combat with hunting as wolves do it. He would sit above a "Furball" and wait until someone ran from it and then he would pounce on that hapless victim. He died because he violated his own Rules of Engagement. He stayed too long on a fleeing enemies tail and flew low and in a straight line so the Australian gun crew and Captain "Roy" Brown both had good shots at him.

The "Furball" is the worst place to find yourself. The chance of hitting a team member with your airplane or your bullets or being hit yourself is too great. As Murphy said: "Friendly Fire isn't",and "Nothing is more accurate than incoming friendly fire". If you find yourself in a swarm of aircraft all vying to get a kill your best bet is to break off get out of the fight reassess and reengage. Situational Awareness is the key to surviving any combat situation (or the LA Freeway). Stay aware of your surroundings and avoid "Target Fixation" like the plague. Many times the enemy you are pursuing as an easy kill is "Bait" to get you to fly in a way that his teammates can send you down in flames. If a situation looks too good to be true it probably is, look around for a "Heavy" waiting to kill you or that fast moving P-51 that just magically appeared out of nowhere on your 6. Never fly in a straight line for very long and never get into a turning fight where you are the slower turning plane. Know Your Enemy!!!. The US Navy F6F Hellcat came into being because they captured an intact A6M2, flew it and Grumman built a plane to beat it. Fly as many planes as you can and learn how they handle. Watch the tactics others use. Most people are creatures of habit and most of them are bad. If you see a pilot repeating the same pattern over and over you can devise strategies to beat him.

Now a word to Stealhealer; I prefer the quote Bret Maverick(James Garner) used: "A coward dies a thousand deaths a brave man only one, a thousand to one is really good odds!". All the advice that was posted by others is good and can help any player who works to apply it. You can read it but if you don't use it you will learn these lessons the hard way. Remember as Oscar Brand sang: "There's no lilies or violets for dead fighter pilots, so cheer up my lads bless'em all". See you all in the air.  Calico Jack.


 


 



 WoTSig_zps60137acc.png

steelhealer #12 Posted 16 October 2014 - 05:57 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 0 battles
  • 154
  • Member since:
    12-26-2013
Great rules. Putting them into practice tho'...... is a different story. Ask the Baron. SH

603rd BG 398th BS

“A coward dies a thousand times before his death, but the valiant taste of death but once. "
"Have a rubber neck and beware the hun in the sun".


 

RuseArtifice #13 Posted 18 October 2014 - 04:06 PM

    Senior Airman

  • Member
  • 0 battles
  • 19
  • Member since:
    08-03-2014

View Postlosttwo, on 24 September 2014 - 03:21 AM, said:

Been so many years since last  I read any thing tactical.

From Gettysburg to SunTzu

From Camouflage to propaganda.

Every society has employed their Trojan Horse.

 

To sum up a simple game such as this

We have command keys to make up for lack of voice.

Take the altitude, take the masses.

Never be out numbered by your enemy.

Learn survival instinct and always remember.

THE GUNS ARE IN THE FRONT OF THE PLANE.

 

Like Ramius said in Hunt for Red October " One Ping Only "

 

 

 

haiku?   Awsomesauce =)



RuseArtifice #14 Posted 18 October 2014 - 04:09 PM

    Senior Airman

  • Member
  • 0 battles
  • 19
  • Member since:
    08-03-2014

View PostKiwiav8r, on 22 September 2014 - 10:32 PM, said:

The problem with the Art of War is, it mainly focuses on strategy, which is kinda irrelevant to WOWP.

 

 

I'm going to disagree and compliment you at the same time.    You may have more tactics and strategy yourself that's is unseen.   Those Aces you earn almost prove it.   Keep up the good work pilot!



losttwo #15 Posted 31 August 2016 - 11:20 AM

    which way do we go?

  • Community Ace
  • 0 battles
  • 12,612
  • [S-S-G] S-S-G
  • Member since:
    05-15-2012
:great:

MARS_REVENANT #16 Posted 19 April 2017 - 02:07 AM

    Colonel

  • Member
  • 809 battles
  • 7,908
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View PostViolentAngel, on 22 September 2014 - 11:00 PM, said:

While moving a bookshelf from the downstairs to the upstairs, I ran across my old copy of The Art of War. I hadn't seen it in probably a decade! Flipping around to random pages I was quickly getting absorbed, and after a while thought: wouldn't it be fun to start a thread on game tactics based on these ancient and wise principals? For those of you not familiar with this work, I recommend checking it out. The principals contained within it relate not only to military strategy, but are presented in such a way to be broadly applicable to "conflict" in general.

 

Let's start it off with an easy one.

 

"One skilled at moving the enemy

Forms and the enemy must follow,

Offers and the enemy must take.

Move them by this and await them with troops."

 

 

One example I have for this came in very handy when I made a series of mistakes in my Spitfire XIV and got myself into a bit of trouble with an A7M and an F4U-4, with no friendly planes around.  I had to find a way to survive this predicament, and quick!  If I could lead my pursuers to the group of warships and their devastating AA fire, I just might make it...

 

 

There is not one correct (or even literal) application of this or other principals in The Art of War, so what I would love is for you to provide other examples of how this has been applied in WoWP, either by you individually or as a team. Feel fee to link to other posts, videos, replays, map tactics, or simply describe it in your words.

 

Have fun with it while teaching others and sharing your experience!

 

 

nice vid :honoring:

1.9.x Forum Stats: Colonel; Member; 34638 battles; 7,526 message_img.pngMember since: 01-26-2012

 

I never lose; either I win or I learn.

 


Bobby_Tables #17 Posted 19 April 2017 - 02:24 AM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 603 battles
  • 698
  • [-DOW-] -DOW-
  • Member since:
    06-16-2014

I am guessing that there is a certain logic behind the necro video rehashes.  I can also guess the "reasoning" behind the necro effort.  You may continue, sir.  

 

Watching battle videos from 2014 and 2015 is, for me, somewhat soothing.  With the current status of the game, I tend to turn away after a few battles due to boredom.  Watching a lame movie for the 8th time or, better yet, reading a book is something I have returned to more often recently.

 

I do leave the game up "live" because lately it takes a while to load from scratch and I am not patient.  I wish I had converted old game play videos long ago.  Based on my recent consumption of cat videos, I would probably watch those rather than play the current game.  







Also tagged with tactics, strategy

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users