93 replies to this topic

[hoom]

Really impressive stuff

Lots of interesting things I've never heard of & the classics I desperately want to play.

 

Particularly the Typhoon, Tempest, Sea Fury sequence

 

Just regarding Tempest: Tempest V with Sabre engine would be stock then the upgrade would be Tempest II with Centaurus.

[J311yfish]

Airfoils

-- this is just another way to look at data

-- primary source -- unverified information

 

Bristol/Supermarine ​-- fighters

 

Aircraft	Airfoil (Wingroot, Wingtip)
Bristol Bulldog I Bristol Bulldog II Bristol Bulldog III ​Bristol Bulldog IV	Bristol IA (upper), Bristol IA (lower) Bristol IA (upper), Bristol IA (lower) Bristol IA (upper), Bristol IA (lower) ​RAF-35 (upper), RAF-34 (lower)
Bristol Type 133
Bristol Type 146	RAF-28 (18%), RAF-28 (10%)
Supermarine Spitfire I Supermarine Spitfire II Supermarine Spitfire III Supermarine Spitfire IV	NACA 2213, NACA 2209.4 NACA 2213, NACA 2209.4 NACA 2213, NACA 2209.4 NACA 2213, NACA 2209.4
Supermarine Spitfire V	NACA 2213, NACA 2209.4
Supermarine Spitfire IX	NACA 2213, NACA 2209.4
Supermarine Spitfire XIV	NACA 2213, NACA 2209.4
Supermarine Attacker	Supermarine 371-I, Supermarine 371-II
Supermarine Swift

 

 

Gloster/Hawker ​-- multi-role fighters

 

Aircraft	Airfoil (Wingroot, Wingtip)
Gloster Goldfinch
Gloster Gauntlet
Gloster Gladiator	RAF-28, RAF-28
Gloster F.5/34	NACA 2218, NACA 2209
Hawker Hurricane	Clark YH (19%), Clark YH (12.2%)
Hawker Typhoon	NACA 2219, NACA 2213
Hawker Tempest	H/1414/37.5 (14%), H/1410/37.5 (10%)
Hawker Sea Fury	H/1414/37.5 (14%), H/1410/37.5 (10%)
Hawker Sea Hawk
Hawker Hunter	Hawker 8.5% symm, Hawker 8.5% symm

 

 

Fairey/Blackburn ​-- torpedo bombers/strike

 

Aircraft	Airfoil (Wingroot, Wingtip)
Fairey Seal/Gordon
Fairey Swordfish	RAF-28, RAF-28
Fairey Albacore	NACA 2412.5, NACA 2412.5
Supermarine Type 322 (S.24/37)
Fairey Barracuda
Blackburn Firebrand   Blackburn Firecrest	NACA 0019, NACA 4413.5 NACA 43017 mod, NACA 64-(35)15
Westland Wyvern	NACA 65-212, NACA 65-214

 

NACA 65-212 wingroot -- also found on Mconnell F2H Banshee

NACA 65-212 wingtip -- found on Vought F6U Pirate 

 

 

Blackburn/Fairey/De Havilland ​-- 2-seat fighters/dive-bombers/strike

 

Aircraft	Airfoil (Wingroot, Wingtip)
Hawker Demon
Blackburn Skua	NACA 2416, NACA 2409
Blackburn Roc	NACA 2416, NACA 2409
Boulton-Paul Defiant   Fairey P.4/34	NACA M-6 mod, NACA M-6 mod NACA 2418, NACA 2409
Fairey Fulmar	NACA 2418, NACA 2409
Fairey Firefly
DH-100 Vampire DH-113 Vampire NF	EC1240/0640 (14%), EC1240/0640 (9%) EC1240/0640 (14%), EC1240/0640 (9%)
DH-112 Venom	EC1040 ?, EC1040 ?
DH-110 Sea Vixen	EC1040 ?, EC1040 ?

 

 

Heavy Fighters​ ​-- twin-engine multi-seat multi-role fighter-bombers

 

Aircraft	Airfoil (Wingroot, Wingtip)
Bristol Blenheim F	RAF-28 (18%), RAF-28 (10%)
Bristol Beaufighter	RAF-28 (18%), RAF-28 (10%)
DH-98 Mosquito	RAF-34 mod, RAF-34 mod
DH-103 Hornet DH-103 Sea Hornet	EC1240, EC1240 EC1240, EC1240
Westland P.1056
Gloster P.228
Gloster GA.5 Javelin	RAE 101 (10%), RAE 101 (8.9%)

 

 

 

Premiums

 

Aircraft	Airfoil (Wingroot, Wingtip)
Supermarine Type 224	NACA 0018, RAF-34
​CAC CA-1 Wirraway	NACA 2215, NACA 2209
Fairey Fantome
Vickers 279 Venom	RAF-34, RAF-34
Miles M.20	NACA 23021, NACA 23009​
Hawker Hurricane IID
CAC CA-12 Boomerang
North American Mustang IA
North American Mustang Mk.I
Gloster Meteor F.1	EC(12.5)40/0640, EC1040/0640
Supermarine Seafang F.32	Supermarine 371-I, Supermarine 371-II

 

 

 

Alternates

 

Aircraft	Airfoil (Wingroot, Wingtip)
Westland Lysander	RAF-34 mod, RAF-34 mod
Westland Whirlwind	NACA 23015, NACA 23015
Westland Welkin	NACA 23021, NACA 23015
English Electric Canberra	RAE/D 12% symm, RAE/D 9% symm
Martin B-57A Canberra	RAE/D 12% symm, RAE/D 9% symm

 

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 25 November 2017 - 03:20 PM.

[J311yfish]

https://ritastatusre...-2-0-2-preview/

 

• Hawker Hurricane I: Tier IV multirole fighter
• Hawker Hurricane II: Tier V multirole fighter
• Hawker Tornado: Tier VI multirole fighter

 

 

[jack_wdw]

So Typhoon and Tempest will probably go into Tier VII and tier VIII and no Sea Fury in this line.

[J311yfish]

Minor update

-- adjusted Hawker Hurricane I, Hurricane II, Tornado (Rolls-Royce Vulture) to correspond to update 2.02 and 'Skies of Albion' event (12/2017).

-- stretched Fairey Barracuda across Tier V and VI in like manner based on original cancelled engine development (Rolls-Royce Exe).

-- grayed-out tech tree lines that do not exist in-game so that they can still be used as a quick visual for possible future lines.  Blackburn Skua to Hawker Hurricane is not necessarily a permanent solution, given the Gladiator, and the turret fighters Roc and Defiant.

 

In progress:

-- closer look at Blackburn Firebrand, Firecrest, Westland Wyvern (possible stretch?)

-- closer look at Fairey Firefly (possible stretch?)

-- closer look at Vampire and Meteor -- these are still big puzzle pieces

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 26 December 2017 - 08:29 AM.

[pyantoryng]

The German bombers could set a groundwork that might just possibly make the Defiant and similar planes (turret only plane) work...

[Kiwiav8r]

What about having the Armstrong Whitworth Whitley as the Tier III heavy bomber?

[J311yfish]

Kiwiav8r, on 07 January 2018 - 04:14 PM, said:

What about having the Armstrong Whitworth Whitley as the Tier III heavy bomber?

 

Probably a good choice!  Based on the engines identified, it could be capable of spanning two tiers.

[egikov]

Typhoon would probably go to tier 7 and Tempest to tier 8.

I would've preferred if Typhoon would go to tier 6 and Tempest to tier 7. And Hawker Tornado should not be in the regular line, maybe should be a premium plane.

Edited by egikov, 08 January 2018 - 06:42 PM.

[J311yfish]

Refinement update 01/15/18

 

FIGHTERS

-- added first flight, production first flight, and introduction dates for Spitfire variants; these can be used horizontally across the tree against aircraft proposed at each tier.  This is just another way to identify/verify tiers with historical accuracy.  In the past, first flight dates were used almost exclusively for this project (then also specifications), and in some cases these do not prove valuable for comparison.  The Spitfire prototype flew 2 years and 5 months before it was actually introduced, for example.

 

MULTIROLE FIGHTERS

​-- Another example, the Westland Wyvern was previously considered to be a Tier VIII, the tier commonly considered to be the apex for piston engines; yet its first flight date (12/1946) and introduction date (05/1953) span almost 7 years (!), and the developments leading up to it (Firecrest, Spearfish, and Hawker designs, among others), suggest that it could very well be Tier IX, after jet engines are already established (as it happened).

-- stretched Fairey Barracuda, Fairey Fulmar, Fairey Firefly; ongoing refinement.  Firefly development spanned 10+ years.

-- rigid adherence to a full II-X Hawker line (BLUE) may come at the expense of the two 'FAA' lines (LIGHT BLUE + ORANGE).  The reality is that Hawker contributed to both RAF and FAA, if that distinction is to be made (YELLOW).  Sea Fury and Sea Hawk are production examples, but many prototypes/projects submitted.  Further investigation is needed.

-- aircraft revealed after Hawker Tornado will help to solve the Vampire/Meteor and RAF/FAA mysteries.

-- Vampire/Venom/Sea Vixen dates incoming (next post).

-- Westland W.36 was a single-engine Avon naval strike fighter developed to N.12/45, designed 1946-1947; could be a reasonable post-Wyvern placeholder for now.

 

BOMBERS

-- divided bombers (BROWN) into MEDIUM and HEAVY; further refinement needed after all engine tiers identified.

 

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 06 March 2018 - 03:27 PM.

[J311yfish]

(Sea) Vampire, (Sea) Venom, Sea Vixen, Meteor timline:

 

MM/DD/YYYY

04/20/1945 -- Vampire [TG274/G] first production flight. (Harrison, 6)

​12/03/1945 -- Vampire first-ever carrier landing of a jet aircraft. (Harrison, 34)

​04/__/1946 -- Vampire F. Mk I introduced No.247 Squadron. (Harrison, 8)

​06/__/1946 -- Vampire further carrier trials

​09/__/1946 -- Vampire further carrier trials, No.778 Squadron.

​10/__/1946 -- Vampire F. Mk I introduced No. 54, No.130 Squadrons. (Harrison, 9)

​11/04/1946 -- Vampire Mk. 3 first flight. (Harrison, 18)

​12/__/1946 -- Meteor standardized as interceptor/fighter by RAF; Air Ministry interested in ground-attack version of Vampire Mk.IV to replace Hawker Tempest.

​03/21/1947 -- Vampire order for 30 Sea Vampire F.20's.

​05/01/1947 -- Vampire F.3 conversion to F.20, complete by 01/1948

​01/__/1948 -- Vampire order for 30 Sea Vampire F.20's reduced to 18 aircraft.

01/__/1948 -- Vampire F.Mk. 3 [VT818] used as prototype for FB.Mk.5. (Harrison, 22)

​02/__/1948 -- Vampire Mk. 3 introduced Central Flying School. (Harrison)

03/23/1948 -- Vampire F.1 [TG278] world height record. (Harrison, 4)

06/23/1948 -- Vampire FB.Mk. 5 first flight. (Harrison)

10/06/1948 -- Vampire first production Sea Vampire F.20 delivered for trials.

__/__/1948 -- Vampire Mk. 5 introduced late 1948. (Harrison)

11/__/1948 -- Vampire introduction/eval Sea Vampire No.703 Squadron.

04/__/1949 -- Vampire introduction/eval Sea Vampire No.702 Squadron.

07/__/1949 -- Vampire all Sea Vampire F.20 conversions completed by this time.

09/02/1949 -- Venom FB.1 [VV612] first flight; Specification F.15/49. (Harrison, 5); [Vampire FB.8 = Venom FB.1]

02/__/1951 -- Venom NF.2 G-5-3 evaluated by FAA, decided it would fill gap between Sea Hornet and Sea Vixen. (Harrison, 21); [FAA's Sea Venom NF.Mk.20 = RAF's Venom NF.2a]

04/19/1951 -- Venom first flight prototype Sea Venom NF.Mk.20. (Harrison, 22-23)

05/__/1951 -- Venom deck landing trials Sea Venom.

09/26/1951 -- Sea Vixen [WG236] first flight 2xRolls-Royce RA.7 7500 lbs thrust. (Hazell)

01/__/1952 -- Vampire Mk. 9 introduced. (Harrison, 11)

01/__/1952 -- Venom FB.1's to Boscombe Down 01/1952-07/1952, while there fitted with 3" rockets. (Harrison, 5)

03/__/1952 -- Venom FB.1 gunner trials 03/1952-08/1952. (Harrison, 5)

04/09/1952 -- Sea Vixen [WG236] supersonic in shallow dive. (Hazell)

05/21/1952 -- Venom FB.1 introduced Central Fighter Establishment. (Harrison, 5)

07/25/1952 -- Sea Vixen [WG240] 2nd prototype first flight. (Hazell)

08/__/1952 -- Venom FB.1 introduced No.11 Squadron, first squadron. (Harrison, 5)

__/__/1952 -- specification issued for Sea Venom replacement; DH.116 swept-wing Sea Venom with improved radar proposed; 2 prototypes ordered; order cancelled 1953.

03/__/1953 -- Venom first production completed Sea Venom NF.Mk.20

03/__/1953 -- Venom FB.1 power-operated ailerons [WE260]. (Harrison, 9)

__/__/1954 -- Venom FB.Mk.1 introduced. (Harrison, 11)

__/__/1954 -- Venom FB.1 early 1954 much-modified, with ejection seats, operated as high-altitude interceptor, "great success against Canberra"; "more than a match for the F-86 Sabre at high altitude." (Harrison, 7)

04/__/1954 -- Venom FB.4 first details released. (Harrison, 9)

05/18/1954 -- Venom FB.4 trials start. (Harrison)

06/06/1954 -- Venom last production completed Sea Venom NF.Mk.20.

03/28/1955 -- Venom FB.4 first production delivery. (Harrison, 9)

__/__/1955 -- Venom FB.4 introduced mid-1955. (Harrison, 9)

 

 

Production

-- Vampires Mk.1-9 = 1,565 total built. (Harrison, 23)

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 15 January 2018 - 08:01 PM.

[J311yfish]

from Developer Blog 12/2017 Q&A - Part 1:

 

Q: When will we see branches containing planes from Hawker or Grumman?

The Hawker branch will make its first appearance before the winter holidays and will include the legendary Hurricane. The second part of the branch, including the almighty Tempest, will come in later updates. The lineup is going to be quite interesting.

 

 

[J311yfish]

UK tech tree background change -- could that be a Hawker Sea Fury at lower left?  Hmmm...

Spoiler

 

 

[hoom]

I think its just a Spitfire XIV.

[jack_wdw]

hoom, on 13 February 2018 - 02:34 AM, said:

I think its just a Spitfire XIV.

 

Yes it is, it has a narrow undercarriage

[hoom]

Yes that was one of the reasons, also the thinness + lack of crank in the wings & cowling is too slender for a radial.

eg Compare with http://www.aviastar....ker_seafury.gif

 

But also because the Mozzie on the right has plan, cross section & front views, on the left we have plan & cross-section of a Spitfire -> probably the front view is also Spitfire, 5 bladed prop is on Spit XIV.

Edited by hoom, 13 February 2018 - 03:26 PM.

[J311yfish]

from Developer Blog -- 02/2018 -- part 2:

 

Q. Are there any plans to add the US naval bombers or a GA line for the US and/or UK?

A. Not for 2018. There are plans for the USA B-series bombers.

Q. What are the rough plans for 2018? Could we see more lines than just the new British MRF or German medium bombers, or even new nations?

A. There will be lots of new airplanes in 2018 for almost all classes and for the UK, Germany, the USA, the USSR and Japan. In addition, we even have plans for one for France and one for another European nation, but those are still under discussion.

Q. Any chance of making the Javelin more in line with other UK heavy fighters? Starting from the Beaufighter, the whole line is armed with bombs and rockets aside from the Tier X Javelin, which gets nothing at all.

A. Yes, the Javelin will get a pair of powerful bombs. We also have plans to add bombs to the P.228.

Q. Is the 10 euro British bomber likely to come back on sale? Someone on here said bombers will be gold soon.

A. We are going to have a lot of branch bombers as well as Premium and special planes. The Blenheim Mk.IV (early) is already available for purchase in the game client using gold, as well as 2 other bombers (the RB-17 and A-26B). As for discounts – keep track of specials on the Portal, they are frequent and you may see the bombers there someday.

 

Edited by J311yfish, 17 February 2018 - 10:04 PM.

[Trophy_Wench]

Hey Jelly, sorry to pick nits with your tech trees here, but in looking at your Hawker line, are the Gloster fighters at tiers 2 and 3 sensible for an MR line? As far as I am aware, they never carried a bomb load of any kind. Don't get me wrong, both aircraft are extremely significant and I want them in game (especially the Gladiator!) but I'm wondering if that was the reason why they skewed them off of the main LF line rather than starting it at tier 2 sadly.

[J311yfish]

Trophy_Wench, on 09 May 2018 - 09:10 AM, said:

Hey Jelly, sorry to pick nits with your tech trees here, but in looking at your Hawker line, are the Gloster fighters at tiers 2 and 3 sensible for an MR line? As far as I am aware, they never carried a bomb load of any kind. Don't get me wrong, both aircraft are extremely significant and I want them in game (especially the Gladiator!) but I'm wondering if that was the reason why they skewed them off of the main LF line rather than starting it at tier 2 sadly.

 

No problem.  I appreciate the dialogue.  That is how these thing improve.  The important thing is to have a rational thought process that can be shared, and being open to seeing things in a new way.

 

I will be brief because time is limited (may edit later):

 

-- Gauntlet developed to same spec as Bulldog, but had heavier armament (4 guns vs Bulldog's 2)

-- Gladiator successor to Gauntlet (also 4 guns)

-- Gloster overtaken by Hawker

 

Is it necessary for them to have bombs, given that "multirole" aircraft in this game tend to have bombs, or could having heavier armament suffice?  I don't know.

Could they be given bombs like the Goldfinch and Type 91 (Japan), which also did not have bombs?  Perhaps yes.

Could they be omitted from Hurricane progression (as they have been) and be used instead as premiums?  Perhaps yes.

 

The good news is that, based on the transparency achieved thus far -- these are the kinds of questions that remain.  I don't have answers for all of them.

[LMG]

J311yfish, on 09 May 2018 - 09:36 AM, said:

No problem.  I appreciate the dialogue.  That is how these thing improve.  The important thing is to have a rational thought process that can be shared, and being open to seeing things in a new way.

 

I will be brief because time is limited (may edit later):

 

-- Gauntlet developed to same spec as Bulldog, but had heavier armament (4 guns vs Bulldog's 2)

-- Gladiator successor to Gauntlet (also 4 guns)

-- Gloster overtaken by Hawker

 

Is it necessary for them to have bombs, given that "multirole" aircraft in this game tend to have bombs, or could having heavier armament suffice?  I don't know.

Could they be given bombs like the Goldfinch and Type 91 (Japan), which also did not have bombs?  Perhaps yes.

Could they be omitted from Hurricane progression (as they have been) and be used instead as premiums?  Perhaps yes.

 

The good news is that, based on the transparency achieved thus far -- these are the kinds of questions that remain.  I don't have answers for all of them.

 

Multiroles tend to have heavier firepower than their light fighter counterparts. The heavy Yaks are proof that the MR designation goes beyond having ordnance