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[spoiler] what the British tech tree could look like

United Kingdom Royal Air Force Fairey Bristol Supermarine Hawker Gloster De Havilland Westland Blackburn

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hoom #81 Posted 19 May 2018 - 03:22 AM

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Looking at other Trees/Lines I don't see any problem at all with Lights to T3 then Multiroles T4+ when we have existing examples like German Ta 152 line: T1 Multirole, T2-4 Light, T5-7 Multirole, T8-10 Light again.


C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas le SerB.

jack_wdw #82 Posted 12 June 2018 - 04:29 PM

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I read that with the next major upgradet, DH Vampire F.1 will be available for supertesters as a tier VIII aircraft.

J311yfish #83 Posted 16 June 2018 - 10:20 PM

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View Postjack_wdw, on 12 June 2018 - 11:29 AM, said:

I read that with the next major upgradet, DH Vampire F.1 will be available for supertesters as a tier VIII aircraft.

 

Thanks for the update.

 

Update 2.05 -- 06/12/18

 New aircraft available for developers and Supertesters only for testing purposes:


De Havilland DH.100 Vampire F.1: British Tier VIII fighter

 

Added some notes here under Tier VIII premiums:

-- Vampire F.1 first flight 04/20/1945

-- Vampire F.1 trials 06/1945

-- Goblin 1 engine

 

Incidentally, here are some related facts:

-- Curtiss XF15C is also tier VIII and its J36 engine is an Americanized version of the De Havilland H1-B Goblin. (Bowers, 506-507)

-- Saab 21R for Sweden -- this is another indication that it would be tier VIII.


Edited by J311yfish, 17 June 2018 - 11:05 AM.

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Trophy_Wench #84 Posted 21 June 2018 - 02:17 AM

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Hey Jelly, another question about your lineups. Well two actually.

One: as I mentioned before I found the early Gloster fighters to be difficult to justify as true MRs but would it perhaps be more feasible to create a German style mini-branch through tier IV with the Gladiator still unlocking both the Hurricane MR and the F.5/34 LF at tier IV, and that would just unlock the Spit? I unfortunately cannot find any way to make a complete and coherent line of Gloster fighters after that point. 

 

Secondly: are the turret fighters really viable for this game? Looking at that line more closely, I worry that the Fairey Fulmar and Firefly are tiered too high, and that to bring them down a tier you have to start eliminating those previous turret fighters. IMO the most logical one would be the Roc as it was meant to be used in tandem with as opposed to replacing the Skua. So it's performance wouldn't really be superior in any way. But even with that, does the Bolton Paul Defiant have a place in this game at all? I'm not convinced it does, so with that said I would see that line go Skua, ... something..., Fulmar, Firefly, Firebrand, and then the DeHaviland fighters. Any thoughts?



hoom #85 Posted 21 June 2018 - 12:37 PM

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They could just give the Skua the Beaufighter treatment: ie top config is same as current except with the quad mg turret added as rear gunner upgrade with only small performance penalty. (historic Beaufighter with that turret had no other armament except 2* 20mm)
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Trophy_Wench #86 Posted 21 June 2018 - 05:53 PM

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View Posthoom, on 21 June 2018 - 12:37 PM, said:

They could just give the Skua the Beaufighter treatment: ie top config is same as current except with the quad mg turret added as rear gunner upgrade with only small performance penalty. (historic Beaufighter with that turret had no other armament except 2* 20mm)

 

Mmmm, I don't know if it would be sensible or balanced to do so. Keep in mind that the Roc has NO forward firing armament, all of its firepower is in that turret. And hybrid-izing the Skua might make it OP with a quad .303 turret that can traverse 360 degrees.

Edited by Trophy_Wench, 21 June 2018 - 05:54 PM.


hoom #87 Posted 22 June 2018 - 05:07 AM

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Oh I know and agree.

Just a passive-aggressive continuation of my argument from 'Nerf Beaufighter' thread :hiding:


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J311yfish #88 Posted 24 June 2018 - 01:07 PM

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View PostTrophy_Wench, on 20 June 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

Secondly: are the turret fighters really viable for this game? 

 

I don't have an answer for that and it isn't up to me.  However, 1) the game is under development; 2) turret fighters existed for a time.  It is a decision for developers to make. One of my primary goals (with all tech tree projects) has been to provide a context to understand developer decisions.  The tech tree manifested here does not have to be 100% accurate to the game, but it should be accurate to actual historical progression as much as possible so that deviations from history are rendered clear and obvious (Ex: absence of Gladiator).

 

View PostTrophy_Wench, on 20 June 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

I worry that the Fairey Fulmar and Firefly are tiered too high, and that to bring them down a tier you have to start eliminating those previous turret fighters. 

 

Placement at each tier has been determined by historical context (specifications, first flight, service entry, narrative, etc.) as well as by comparison to modules known to exist already in-game.

 

The Roc for example has a tier VI Boulton-Paul turret.

The Fulmar Mk.II for example has a tier VI Rolls-Royce Merlin engine.

The Firefly for example has a tier VIII Rolls-Royce Griffon engine.

 

If you are determined to eliminate the turret fighters (in order to pretend that they never existed or never influenced the design conversation) then you will absolutely have difficulty making a cohesive progression.

 

View PostTrophy_Wench, on 20 June 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

IMO the most logical one would be the Roc as it was meant to be used in tandem with as opposed to replacing the Skua. So it's performance wouldn't really be superior in any way. 

 

The relationship between one tier and the next is not based on simply "this replaced that."

 

View PostTrophy_Wench, on 20 June 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

does the Bolton Paul Defiant have a place in this game at all? I'm not convinced it does

 

That is a developer decision and the game is still under development.  It is not up to me and I have no interest in making a case for or against its inclusion. 

 

View PostTrophy_Wench, on 20 June 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

so with that said I would see that line go Skua, ... something..., Fulmar, Firefly, Firebrand, and then the DeHaviland fighters. Any thoughts?

 

That doesn't make sense to me but you are welcome to pursue the idea further if you think it makes sense to you.  I recommend looking at it from many different angles to see how it satisfies chronology, specifications, features, etc.

 

Note that, based on some hints in the historical narrative, that we might actually see De Havilland Vampire as progression from the existing Hawker mini-line.  See Frank Halford (engine designer), and notes on use of aircraft in a ground attack role.

 

 

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J311yfish #89 Posted 23 September 2018 - 05:55 PM

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Some discussion generated about ultimate tier IV biplanes has given cause to revisit the U.K. tech tree in order to answer the question -- WHERE IS THE GLADIATOR? and how could it get into the game?  So, here are some of those possibilities, revisited.

 

How Gloster Gladiator can fit into the current game:

 

1. as pre-Hurricane progression -- an opportunity to do this was bypassed in order to have the Hawker Demon and Blackburn Skua as multirole lead-ins to the Hurricane.  It could still be done, but let us suppose for sake of argument that it will not, so that other opportunities are rendered clear:

 

2. as pre-Fulmar progression -- the Gladiator was adapted for carrier duty as the Sea Gladiator and was later replaced by the Fulmar.  If that is the favored avenue, then what could it look like?

 

Tier First Flight Production Aircraft Engine Speed Armament Bombs/Rockets
II __/1933

20+

...

Gloster S.S.19B

Gloster Gauntlet I

Gloster Gauntlet II

III  Bristol Mercury VIS 536 bhp

Bristol Mercury VIS2 640hp (2-blade wooden Watts propeller)

Bristol Mercury VIS2 640hp (3-blade metal Fairey propeller)

346 km/h @ 5029m

370 km/h @ 4816m

...

4x Lewis (W)  
III

09/1934

 

12/1938 del.

378

270

(38)+60

Gloster Gladiator I

Gloster Gladiator II

Gloster Sea Gladiator

Bristol Mercury IX 830hp

Bristol Mercury VIIIA or VIIIAS 830hp

Bristol Mercury VIIIA or VIIIAS 830hp

IV  Bristol Mercury XV (as for Bristol Blenheim)

407 km/h @ 4419m

414 km/h @ 4449m​

407 km/h @ 4449m

2x7.7mm Browning (S) + 2x7.7mm Lewis or Vickers K

4x7.7mm

4-6x7.7mm

yes

yes

yes

IV ~06/1937 2 Gloster F.5/34

III  Bristol Mercury IX 840hp supercharged

(3-blade prop)

IV  Bristol Taurus (proposed by Roy Fedden)

509 km/h @ 4876m 8x7.62mm Browning (W)

 

V 01/1940 150 Fairey Fulmar I

V  Rolls-Royce Merlin I  1030hp ...Fairey P.4/34 and prototypes

V  Rolls-Royce Merlin II  1030hp

V  Rolls-Royce Merlin VIII  1080hp - Fulmar Mk.I

...

455 km/h

438 km/h

8x7.62mm up to 500 lbs
VI   450 Fairey Fulmar II VI  Rolls-Royce Merlin XXX   1300hp 246 mph -- Fulmar Mk.II      
VII 12/1941 429 Fairey Firefly I

Rolls-Royce Griffon XII 1735hp

Rolls-Royce Griffon XII 1990hp

513 km/h 4x20mm  
VIII  

160

352

Fairey Firefly IV

Fairey Firefly V

Rolls-Royce Griffon 74 2250hp (4-blade propeller)      
IX              
X              

 

 

^ this would mean that an opportunity to progress from through turret fighters (Blackburn Skua --> Blackburn Roc --> Boulton-Paul Defiant) would be eliminated, perhaps in favor of offering them as premiums at a later time.

 

3. as progression or premium for another country -- such as Sweden, Finland, China

 

4. as premium for U.K.

 


Edited by J311yfish, 24 September 2018 - 12:39 AM.

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J311yfish #90 Posted 03 October 2018 - 07:13 AM

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Update 2.07 -- patch notes:

New promotional planes added


Junkers Ju 86E — German Tier III bomber;
Henschel Hs 129A — German Tier IV attack aircraft;
Heinkel He 111 H-2 — German Tier IV bomber;
de Havilland Vampire F.1 — British Tier VIII fighter.

 

 


Edited by J311yfish, 03 October 2018 - 06:40 PM.

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J311yfish #91 Posted 20 October 2018 - 01:49 PM

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Developer Blog Q&A 02/2018 part 1 -- part 2

Q. Can you give us any more information about what planes may make up the later tiers of the Hawker multirole & German bomber lines?
A. The Hawker branch will include the legendary Typhoon and some more advanced modifications of this fighter. The high-tier German bombers branch will include Junkers projects with some very remarkable experimental aircraft that boast impressive speed and powerful bomb loads. Both branches are planned for release this year.

 

^ This could be an indicator that the Hawker line will lead to Westland Wyvern by way of Hawker P.1030:

 

-- Napier Sabre 24-cylinder H --> Rolls-Royce Eagle 24-cylinder H

-- contra-rotating propellers

-- elliptical wing

-- multirole capability to meet Fleet Air Arm requirements

 

Spoiler

 

A transition to Westland Wyvern would certainly meet the oft-proclaimed developer demand that new aircraft should diversify gameplay.

 

Spoiler

 


Edited by J311yfish, 22 October 2018 - 01:55 PM.

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