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Hornet, Yak 3 and Me 410


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Aurabird #1 Posted 06 July 2014 - 02:41 AM

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I have no clue what I'm doing wrong of if people just hate me/these planes. It feels like when I fly these, all i get is bad luck.

In my Hornet, match start, I climb to space (as high as I can go, what I normally do in my heavies). All goes well sometimes and I get a kill or 2 (BnZ). But for the vast majority of the time when I fly this, the moment I spot a P-51D or Bf 109G, I'm dead. I don't die instantly, but I'm forced to fly around (low, high, to allies, to AA) until I die. The 51 and 109 chase me to the ends of the Earth to kill me. A game of cat and mouse I lose all the time and I'm always the mouse. Am I doing something wrong or do most people on this server apart from me hate Hornets and want to see them burn brighter than the sun?

The Me 410 is a similar story, only tier 6 for the most part. Except this time every heavy on the red team is on me instead and it feels like they're glued on my tail so hard that i'd need industrial grade remover to get them off.

The Yak 3 though, this plane takes the cake for my most unlucky and frustrating plane to fly. So much so that I dread flying it. I've gotten aces a few times in it and have killed my fair share of people in it. Cool right? It would be if every plane on the enemy team didn't feel like I needed a live Viking style funeral the moment they see me. I die faster in this thing than I do in an A6M1 in a tier 6 match.

Anyone got tips for these frustrating birds? Or are they forever guna be my unlucky trio?

Navis_Nobilite #2 Posted 06 July 2014 - 02:48 AM

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Hornets and Me410s are both very strong planes. Anyone with experience will try to kill them ASAP.

 

Not sure why people are going after your Yak-3 so fast, though. Do you fly out in front of everyone else and become the first target on the mini-map?



AtrumDeus #3 Posted 06 July 2014 - 02:49 AM

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Unfortunately, those three planes are just prime targets. The Hornet and Hornisse(Hornet in German) are high firepower planes that can wipe out a fighter, or even a heavy in a single pass. So fighters tend to chase them down because they are relatively slow and ungainly. The Yak-3 is just a leftover. The -1M is a killer plane that can turn with a zero, and people remember from the last tier. The same thing happens to Me in all three planes.
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Aurabird #4 Posted 06 July 2014 - 02:50 AM

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I do quite the opposite to flying out front first in my Yak 3. In fact, because I die so fast in it I have a habit of staying too far back sometimes.

With the Hornet and 410 though, it's sounding like I'll need to stay far back if people want them gone that fast. But for people to chase me THROUGH my team and AA seems absurd. I've also had cases where I have played conservatively but the moment I'm spotted the people closest to me B-line for me regardless if I'm high up or in my AA

Edited by Aurabird, 06 July 2014 - 02:54 AM.


Carl_the_Cuttlefish #5 Posted 06 July 2014 - 04:46 AM

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I don't know much about the other two, but the hornet, me and you Aura will have to flight up some time. Basically, I avoid fighters for the most part in brit HF's. I drop the two bombs right away at about 4000 ft altitude, be a decoy for planes back to frendlies, then skirt the outsides looking for GA's or HF's. Stay low because fast fighters stay up high.

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pyantoryng #6 Posted 06 July 2014 - 04:48 AM

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Tier 7 planes are starting to get heavy arms like high performance 20mm or even 30mm guns as norm.

 

...and I think those high alt planes would hate to turnfight with your Yak-3 in the midst of your AA...



WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
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Aurabird #7 Posted 06 July 2014 - 05:15 AM

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View PostS01836775, on 06 July 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

I don't know much about the other two, but the hornet, me and you Aura will have to flight up some time. Basically, I avoid fighters for the most part in brit HF's. I drop the two bombs right away at about 4000 ft altitude, be a decoy for planes back to frendlies, then skirt the outsides looking for GA's or HF's. Stay low because fast fighters stay up high.

 

With my recent history in the Hornet, playing bait doesn't sound like fun at all. I'm starting to think the Hornet is a better early game IL hunter and late game heavy killer (It is fun to 1000lb bomb ILs). 

 

 

View Postpyantoryng, on 06 July 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

Tier 7 planes are starting to get heavy arms like high performance 20mm or even 30mm guns as norm.

 

...and I think those high alt planes would hate to turnfight with your Yak-3 in the midst of your AA...

 

Those high altitude planes never seem to TnB with me in my Yak 3. Excluding tier 5s and 6s of course, they do it too often. Even then, fights in my Yak 3 don't seem to make it into my AA. If anything though they make it to the sides of my AA range (that's usually when a Z comes in to "secure" the kill)



Lego1157 #8 Posted 06 July 2014 - 05:33 AM

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Ya I was pretty unlucky with my hornet. It has my 3rd lowest wr in the line behind the Javelin (because I haven't played enough battles in it) and the p228 (this thing is awful). I still thought it was fun though but like you I got chased a lot by enemy fighters. The 410 I never really had this problem with. It can outrun everything but a P51A and usually I can get a teammate to kill one if they are on my tail so I actually really enjoyed it with its powerful 30mm cannons. With the yak 3 I don't know what to tell you. I liked it and it wasn't bad but I never really had this problem. 
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Charbydis #9 Posted 06 July 2014 - 05:59 AM

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Aurabird message me in game and i'll see if i can give you any advice


Goose_6 #10 Posted 06 July 2014 - 08:16 AM

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just sayin.....the 410 and hornet are Prime targets for most I think.  Powerful planes that are targets.  the yak 3 is a true turn fighter that  most fear and so...boom.  I feel the same Aura...whenever I fly them I am a target for sure.  But really aren't we all targets when flying??

 

one more thought....those planes end up flying with jets a lot of times...easy pickins.

 

 

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Nihtwaco #11 Posted 06 July 2014 - 09:30 AM

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Think and act the Hunter, Avoid fixing on one target 2 second burst and fly through to next one. Let your rear gunner take his shots boom out of fight at a low enough angle to gain speed with boost. Turn back towards fight work top down or bottom up depending on where lone stragglers are trying to leave the Furball. With tail leeches drag them through the Furball or through friendly AA.

BitterClinger #12 Posted 06 July 2014 - 12:00 PM

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The Yak-3 is probably my favorite plane in the game so far (I'm only up to Tier VIII; F2G and Yak-15). I average well over 2 kills per battle in it, have better than a 50% survival rate, and earn my highest average experience in this plane (577 per battle). I have not flown it since researching the Yak-15 (and moving the pilot), but it is still in my Hangar and will probably get a new pilot assigned to it.

 

I'm currently grinding the Me 410 and had a very rough go of things the first few battles for the same reasons others have given. Now, I hang back and take time to gain a lot of altitude. I won't use boost to gain altitude early in the game unless I'm on a huge map (like Lighthouse). I have managed to turn things around have been enjoying flying this plane recently.

 

I am still on the Blenheim F, so I don't know anything about the Hornet.



losttwo #13 Posted 06 July 2014 - 12:23 PM

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Finally and easy problems to solve and in reverse of how I normally solve things.

Normally I tell people they need to learn to fly....this time.

Here is your problem.

5000+ battles, 58.93% W/L, 2.62 K/D

This is an auto targeting system....you now have a target painted on every single aircraft you fly......MORE SO IN THE HEAVIES.

And with the XVM style mod floating around....your best best is to tank your stats into the toilet.

You are doing great, you are a challenge.

You are flying planes that I have the similar problems in....it is something we just have to learn some trick to get better in. :honoring:



Aurabird #14 Posted 06 July 2014 - 01:20 PM

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If I'm a priority target then I need to step up my game even more so. I have taken all of this advise and plan to put it into action next time I hop on (when tier 7s are actually flying as well). From what I'm understanding so far is that I might be (or rather, I am) flying way too aggressive with these planes (a bad habit).

It sounds like the Hornet needs a much more conservative play style, staying back and killing those who over extend or go tunnel vision on a ally B-lining for AA cover. It can also murder ILs pretty dang fast and well, stopping base rushes and capping their supremacy with ordinance to use against the ILs to back up its guns.

The Me 410, similarly, needs to stay back, but isn't dedicated to killing stragglers or over extending planes. It flies high, stays high but doesn't spear head the fight. It stays back like a vulture or eagle, waiting to find the perfect time to strike and taking down the enemies that are highest up in the clouds first.

The Yak 3 flies behind and under the pack, attacking anyone who dares to fly too low and too deep into the pack. Allies seeking help, diving for AA, bleeding the enemies energy, anything. These will be my primary source for kills. This is an unreliable source for kills however, so I'm not sure if harassing GA's is a good idea or not, due to powerful tail gunners. Kinda makes me wish the Yak 3 had rockets to be honest. Other targets will be HFs/LFs that are GAing a bit. I guess the best thing to do will be vulture around for planes that fly too close to the deck.

Thanks for all the advice and help so far guys! Hopefully it all works when I put it into practise next time I get a chance to fly these

losttwo #15 Posted 06 July 2014 - 01:57 PM

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You can not vulture around that is my tactic when I need to raise my stats.

BitterClinger #16 Posted 06 July 2014 - 02:58 PM

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The Yak-3 is perfectly suited for getting right in the thick of the action. The fighters come down pretty early on in most battles. When it does, just start clearing tails and you'll have a handful of kills in no time. IL tail gunners are actually pretty hard on the Yak-3 as is AA.

Aurabird #17 Posted 06 July 2014 - 05:50 PM

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View Postlosttwo, on 06 July 2014 - 11:57 PM, said:

You can not vulture around that is my tactic when I need to raise my stats.

 

Too late! Guna steal it now :tongue:

 

 

View PostBitterClinger, on 07 July 2014 - 12:58 AM, said:

The Yak-3 is perfectly suited for getting right in the thick of the action. The fighters come down pretty early on in most battles. When it does, just start clearing tails and you'll have a handful of kills in no time. IL tail gunners are actually pretty hard on the Yak-3 as is AA.

 

Every time I get into the thick of the action with this thing it just gets focused immediately (usually by 2 or more planes). That's why I posted about vulturing around the edge of the fights with it to pick stragglers off down low. I'll be trying all sorts of things out when I can but putting my Yak 3 in the middle of a furball usually ends (very quickly) with me turning into a flying bonfire, so that won't be the first thing I try (just out of fear really). I don't plan on attacking IL's in it though and if I do shoot at them it will be from far away and "poke" shots



pyantoryng #18 Posted 06 July 2014 - 07:14 PM

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View PostBitterClinger, on 06 July 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

...clearing tails...

 

That is all there to it.

 

Still, I don't give the slightest care and I go straight in then evade those altitude players as they line up their sights and start firing, going under, around, or even straight through their bullet streams while doing rolls.



WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

Ralph_Vargr #19 Posted 06 July 2014 - 07:26 PM

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View Postlosttwo, on 06 July 2014 - 07:23 AM, said:

Finally and easy problems to solve and in reverse of how I normally solve things.

Normally I tell people they need to learn to fly....this time.

Here is your problem.

5000+ battles, 58.93% W/L, 2.62 K/D

This is an auto targeting system....you now have a target painted on every single aircraft you fly......MORE SO IN THE HEAVIES.

And with the XVM style mod floating around....your best best is to tank your stats into the toilet.

You are doing great, you are a challenge.

Lost, remember what happened when online poker got mods and HUD's that scraped every last one of your stats from every poker room? I went back to live play. And did much better. Until I got old, and could not stay awake at the table anymore, and needed a doubling of my Depends budget. :veryhappy:

 

Aura, my sincere congratulations on your skills. You have now found out what it is to be a pro: You are now a target. In formal game theory, you need to be taken out of play at once by your opponents. This is done out of pure survival, not animosity. Otherwise, they lose.

 

This is the flip side of why the MM problem is fundamentally unfixable. Tier 7 and above would need to become "World Of Warplanes Pro", an e-sports venue. I'll leave it as an exercise for the micro-economics student for what happens next.

 

This is why I am glad that I suck.

 

But eventually, it will come down to being bombed from altitude by everyone, like dropping rocks off an overpass, or dynamite fishing. This is what happens when I fly *any* attack bird. It's happening to everybody else, too. Soon, it will be all the heavies of any tier. Then anybody of a W/L of over 50%. This is already happening, and most of the reason population is so low. A game which encourages, and permits this, needs to be policed. They will try half-measures, like bots, or bans, for a time.

 

But, the only policing method that really works is the "OFF" button. There are two of them; yours, and Wargaming.net's. We're addicts. They will press the OFF button first, when the spreadsheet says so.



Cuesta_Rey #20 Posted 06 July 2014 - 07:33 PM

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Never owned the Hornet, but have both the Yak-3 and Me-410.

 

The Yak-3 is somewhat an enigma to me:

38 battles fought

W/L ratio = 45%

12 battles survived

50 enemy aircraft destroyed (1.3 kills per match) (1.9:1 kill to death ratio)

 

Seems like it's either feast or famine with it. While it consistently shoots down enemy planes, it's just not strong enough to help "carry" a battle, not at least in my hands at this time. I think it has the potential, it's just me not getting the most out of it, and (this is a BIG but) not surviving well enough.

So, it seems to me I am maybe putting myself into situations I should avoid.

Also, 38 battles is probably not enough, statistically speaking, to evaluate the performance of pilot/plane. Just as a rule of thumb, feel that 100 battles gives a much better picture of what a pilot can/cannot do with a particular plane. However, at 45%, I am hesitant to continue down that path, particularly solo.

 






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