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Why no MiG-15 as Tier 10?


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Navis_Nobilite #1 Posted 26 June 2014 - 09:27 AM

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The American lines give you the F-86A Sabre, which saw a lot of combat in the Korean War. The F7U Cutlass was not a good plane, but it was actively used. In comparison, the Soviet lines give you prototype fighters, neither of which saw combat. Why didn't they include the MiG-15 as a Soviet Tier 10? It seems like the obvious candidate, since it was flown against the F-86 in combat.

Edited by danbuter, 26 June 2014 - 09:28 AM.


pyantoryng #2 Posted 26 June 2014 - 09:46 AM

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Blame Mikoyan-Gurevich props for not being as significant as Lavochkin or Yakovlev in the props age.

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Alcoholism #3 Posted 26 June 2014 - 09:54 AM

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Even so, WG could (maybe are) make a tree split from one of those lines.  I'd certainly like to see some MiGs ingame!

SkywhaleExpress #4 Posted 26 June 2014 - 10:28 AM

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Because they will never produce any other Fockwulf P-38, Yak, Great Britain WHATEVER ELSE YOU HAVE... that they have already released since CBT...



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Demon93IT #5 Posted 26 June 2014 - 10:50 AM

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As for now the USSR tree is one of the richest with Germany and US. Before adding something else to them i'd rather prefer a new branch for Japan and UK. In any case the MiG 15 won't offer that much more, it won the contract against the La 15 just because it was cheaper.

Mackunaima #6 Posted 26 June 2014 - 01:13 PM

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View Postpyantoryng, on 26 June 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

Blame Mikoyan-Gurevich props for not being as significant as Lavochkin or Yakovlev in the props age.

 

There was no way the MiGs compete with yak in the age of prop because the the history of the Yak 20 is almost older than the MiG.

The first MiG designs were designed by Yakovlev and Lavochkin. However, in the age of jets, after the end of WWII, the German jet recovered by Russia was given for future company MiG, so MiG had a giant leap ahead of its competitors, which came to make numerous design improvements plane the jets, eg
wing sweep, but just for the sake of balance point and not aerodynamic.

 

http://en.wikipedia....Gurevich_MiG-15

 

The era of props was the Yak and La but in the worldwide era of subsonic jets was the MiG.

 

View Postdanbuter, on 26 June 2014 - 06:27 AM, said:

The American lines give you the F-86A Sabre, which saw a lot of combat in the Korean War. The F7U Cutlass was not a good plane, but it was actively used. In comparison, the Soviet lines give you prototype fighters, neither of which saw combat. Why didn't they include the MiG-15 as a Soviet Tier 10? It seems like the obvious candidate, since it was flown against the F-86 in combat.

 

I would love to have the MiG 15 in the game, so I've asked several times. But if the MiG-15 is placed in the game preserving its original features then the WG will have to do a little overboost for the F-86, 'cause currently in the game F-86 is not a problem for the 160 La-tier IX. For in 1vs1 combat the MiG was superior. Although there are many conflicting stories, so I'll put down two distinct links and more complete versions.

 

Here a small fragment

 

"On paper, the F-86A and the MiG-15 were well matched. The Sabre was somewhat underpowered and the MiG-15 could outclimb it. The Soviet aircraft also was more heavily armed, with two 23-millimeter and one 37-millimeter cannon. The MiG's cannon had a low rate of fire, but it only took a few hits from them to kill a Sabre, while the F-86 six 12.7-millimeter guns lacked hitting power (*). One Soviet MiG-15 pilot who fought in Korea described them contemptuously as "pea-shooters", and USAF pilots reported expending all their ammunition on a MiG, only to watch it fly away. Soviet pilots felt that their machine was more rugged, and believed that many of their aircraft that were credited as "kills" by the Americans actually returned to base and were able to fly again.

On the plus side, the F-86 was well built, and turned and rolled better than the MiG. Its radar gunsight was much superior to the MiG's eyeball gunsight, and if its guns were of relatively small caliber, they were accurate, well focused, and had a high rate of fire.

Sabre pilots also had excellent visibility, sitting high up in a prominent bubble canopy, while MiG pilots sat deeper in their machines. This did give the MiG pilots an advantage of greater protection in air combat, but at the cost of inferior visibility, compounded by the fact that parts of the MiG-15's canopy were prone to fogging.

The MiG-15 had a number of aerodynamic vices. When Chuck Yeager, who evaluated a captured MiG-15, later chatted with a Soviet MiG-bureau engineer during a visit to the USSR, the Soviet engineer was incredulous that Yeager had actually dived in the thing. Unlike the Sabre, the MiG-15 was prone to spins, and recovering from them was difficult.

The MiG's cockpit ergonomics were also inferior. In particular, Soviet pilots were unhappy that there was only one ejection lever. If they were wounded in one arm, they would have to reach across with the other to eject, which put them in a posture that made an ejection injury very possible.

Sabres performed better at low altitudes, MiGs at high. For this reason, fights tended to be brief, since the adversaries would quickly seek the ground where they had the most advantage. The Sabre had been designed primarily for the air superiority role, while the MiG-15 had been designed primarily as a high-altitude bomber destroyer. Each was very well suited to the mission for which it had been specifically designed.

The close balance between the F-86 and the MiG-15 meant that the critical factor in the air battle was pilot training and skill. While there were many skilled Soviet pilots, the Soviets were hampered by the decision to rotate entire units through combat, meaning each new unit had to learn the game all over again. The Americans were in general experienced, and rotated individuals into combat with the help of those that knew the game.
" - http://www.sinodefen...-wins-2178.html

 

Another one... http://www.aer.ita.b...mig_x_sabre.htm

 

And a little tendentious vídeo

www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsGREOUphOM

 

Regards,

Mack


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J311yfish #7 Posted 26 June 2014 - 01:50 PM

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I am only speculating, but it seems to me that if one of the compelling features of a new country is the addition of new aircraft, then it may explain why some aircraft have not yet appeared, for example:

 

Republic P-47 -- starring role in Brazilian Air Force; at that tier there are no other options, it's a linchpin.

Gloster Meteor -- Brazil linchpin

Lockheed P-80 -- Brazil linchpin

MiG-15 -- starring role in China as Shenyang J2

Gloster Gladiator -- might be a linchpin for Sweden, unless more information is found for Sparmann's E-4

de Havilland Vampire -- India?  Australia?  Canada?  France if used as Mistral.

 

Going further, if that is true, then it would suggest that all of the tech trees are already slated, and that their choice of rollout is strategic.


Edited by J311yfish, 26 June 2014 - 01:56 PM.

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Demon93IT #8 Posted 26 June 2014 - 01:50 PM

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Well the MiG 1 was originally designed by Polikarpov(Mikoyan worked there before creating MiG). Still doesn't change the fact that MiG doesn't offer much regarding prop driven planes.

Generalissimo #9 Posted 26 June 2014 - 02:09 PM

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From the devs, via Google Translate: 

 Branch MiGs

  • Will.

 

Aircraft

  • Supersonic aircraft will not. The timeline for the game 30-50 years. The most that you will see - the MiG-15, F-86 Sabre and their analogs.

 

http://forum.worldofwarplanes.ru/index.php?/topic/55948-обновляемый-вестник-администрации/



Mackunaima #10 Posted 26 June 2014 - 02:48 PM

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View PostDemon93IT, on 26 June 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

Well the MiG 1 was originally designed by Polikarpov(Mikoyan worked there before creating MiG). Still doesn't change the fact that MiG doesn't offer much regarding prop driven planes.

 

Actually you're right, thanks for your consideration Demon. The Yakovlev neither Lavochkin had no influence on the first prop Mikoyan.

The first MiG really was designed by Polikarpov Construction Bureau. However the Polikarpov made ​​small design considerations. But he was greatly drawn by M. Tetivikin.

After the death of Polikarpov on 30 July 1944 at the age of 52, his OKB was absorbed into Lavochkin, but with some of its engineers going to Mikoyan-Gurevich.

Lavochkin and Yakvlev were not close friends, yet the ministry of the Russian armed forces forced the three to work together for a few years. So many designs are shared between them. However, the MiG had the best (cheapest and fastest) manufacturing, thus receiving greater incentives from the Russian government.

I tried to find the entire book, but could not.

 

https://docs.google....upBZXC5Bb4/edit

 

View PostJ311yfish, on 26 June 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

I am only speculating, but it seems to me that if one of the compelling features of a new country is the addition of new aircraft, then it may explain why some aircraft have not yet appeared, for example:

 

Republic P-47 -- starring role in Brazilian Air Force; at that tier there are no other options, it's a linchpin.

Gloster Meteor -- Brazil linchpin

Lockheed P-80 -- Brazil linchpin

MiG-15 -- starring role in China as Shenyang J2

Gloster Gladiator -- might be a linchpin for Sweden, unless more information is found for Sparmann's E-4

de Havilland Vampire -- India?  Australia?  Canada?  France if used as Mistral.

 

Going further, if that is true, then it would suggest that all of the tech trees are already slated, and that their choice of rollout is strategic.

 

I would like to see some airplanes used by other nations being entered as a deviation from tech tree. I had already made ​​this request in another topic.

Brazilian aircraft could be deviations of the British and Americans.

 

Regards,

Mack


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Aurabird #11 Posted 26 June 2014 - 03:43 PM

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View PostDemon93IT, on 26 June 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

As for now the USSR tree is one of the richest with Germany and US. Before adding something else to them i'd rather prefer a new branch for Japan and UK. In any case the MiG 15 won't offer that much more, it won the contract against the La 15 just because it was cheaper.

This.

I understand why people want famous and well known planes in game but come on already... How many times do various others and I have to repeat this over and over again? WG needs to flesh out other nations before they dive into the current nations with more detail regarding plane variety in game



GiN_nTonic #12 Posted 26 June 2014 - 04:28 PM

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The Yak 30 is nearly identical to the Mig 15, and I am not sure what flight characteristics they could change on the Mig 15 to make it worthwhile to have both the Yak 30 and it in the game.  That said, its confusing why they didn't put the Mig 15 in the game over the Yak 30.


Edited by GiNnTonic, 26 June 2014 - 04:31 PM.


Kiwiav8r #13 Posted 27 June 2014 - 02:17 AM

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MiGs will most likely have their own line.  The Yak 30 is there because it is the logical conclusion of the Yak line.

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Carl_the_Cuttlefish #14 Posted 27 June 2014 - 04:37 AM

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They could really make a tier VIII-X MiG line and stick it at the end of one of the Yak lines.

 


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pyantoryng #15 Posted 27 June 2014 - 05:19 AM

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Branch it out of LaGG-3 again or from one of the I-16 (keep in mind that MiG do have some prop planes that see service and whatnot)...that's going to overload them, but in the past we had the Panzer IV that went to VK3001H, VK3601H, AND Hummel. Yes, three vehicles branched from one vehicle!

Edited by pyantoryng, 27 June 2014 - 05:24 AM.


WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

Demon93IT #16 Posted 27 June 2014 - 09:11 AM

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View PostS01836775, on 27 June 2014 - 05:37 AM, said:

They could really make a tier VIII-X MiG line and stick it at the end of one of the Yak lines.

 


In theory they can make a line starting from the I-16 late(the MiG 1 started as Polikarpov I-200). The line itself could be something like this:

V)MiG 1

VI)MiG 3

VII)I-211

VIII)I-250

IX)MiG 9

X)MiG 15

 

I'm not too convinced though since there are two cancelled projects(the I-211 and the I-250) which i don't think they got modifications over the lifespan of the projects. Then there's the MiG 9 which is a twin engine fighter and, for WG standards, this means that it will probably be classified as heavy fighter. To increase the numbers they could also add the last projects of Polikarpov which doesn't have any high tiers but it can easily go up to tier VII no problem



GiN_nTonic #17 Posted 28 June 2014 - 05:49 PM

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Notice how similar the Mig 9 is with the La 160, and the Mig 15 is with the Yak 30.  They must have used the same design team members....


Demon93IT #18 Posted 28 June 2014 - 06:02 PM

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View PostGiNnTonic, on 28 June 2014 - 06:49 PM, said:

Notice how similar the Mig 9 is with the La 160, and the Mig 15 is with the Yak 30.  They must have used the same design team members....

MiG 9 and La 160 are totally different planes. The MiG 9 is a twin engine aircraft with strait wings while the La 160 is a single engine with swept wing.

 

As the MiG 15 and the Yak 30 are concerned they have some things in common but they definitely not used the same people simply because these planes had to compete against each other.



Aurabird #19 Posted 29 June 2014 - 07:35 AM

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View PostDemon93IT, on 27 June 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:


In theory they can make a line starting from the I-16 late(the MiG 1 started as Polikarpov I-200). The line itself could be something like this:

V)MiG 1

VI)MiG 3

VII)I-211

VIII)I-250

IX)MiG 9

X)MiG 15

 

I'm not too convinced though since there are two cancelled projects(the I-211 and the I-250) which i don't think they got modifications over the lifespan of the projects. Then there's the MiG 9 which is a twin engine fighter and, for WG standards, this means that it will probably be classified as heavy fighter. To increase the numbers they could also add the last projects of Polikarpov which doesn't have any high tiers but it can easily go up to tier VII no problem


I have to mention this because it's been on my mind for a while.

Doesnt the F7U have 2 engines? If so, why hasn't WG classed it as a heavy?



Demon93IT #20 Posted 29 June 2014 - 09:22 AM

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View PostAurabird, on 29 June 2014 - 08:35 AM, said:


I have to mention this because it's been on my mind for a while.

Doesnt the F7U have 2 engines? If so, why hasn't WG classed it as a heavy?


Probably because they have forgotten it :teethhappy:.

 

In any case the MiG 9 is less problematic in comparison to the planes below it.

 






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