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Joystick Training


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Humblebum #21 Posted 12 June 2014 - 05:51 AM

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I bought a 3D Pro specifically to play this game, but had to give up and go back to the mouse, as I wasn't having much fun. The big plusses for me are a twist rudder, and refined speed control as I like to match speeds with a target I'm chasing. I actually found general flying around was okay, and you have maneuvers available to you that you can't intuitively replicate with a mouse. My main point of frustration was aiming - whatever sensitivity settings I had, I always found my reticule bouncing left/right across my target, with me unable to dampen the effect down in anything other than the most controlled circumstances.

 

This I believe is a realistic effect of using the rudder to strafe, but the problem isn't that it's hard, it's that you don't have it with a mouse, so it's not a level playing field. While I'm see-sawing at the tail of my victim, the guy behind me is just pointing and holding down his button. I've played flight games before where you could flip between realistic rudder mode and a simpler one that eliminated this effect. Surely if it's not a factor for mouse users, stick users should be able to shut it off? the stick users are, so to speak, getting the short end of the stick.



Breezy1 #22 Posted 12 June 2014 - 08:36 AM

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View PostHumblebum, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

I bought a 3D Pro specifically to play this game, but had to give up and go back to the mouse, as I wasn't having much fun. The big plusses for me are a twist rudder, and refined speed control as I like to match speeds with a target I'm chasing. I actually found general flying around was okay, and you have maneuvers available to you that you can't intuitively replicate with a mouse. My main point of frustration was aiming - whatever sensitivity settings I had, I always found my reticule bouncing left/right across my target, with me unable to dampen the effect down in anything other than the most controlled circumstances.

 

This I believe is a realistic effect of using the rudder to strafe, but the problem isn't that it's hard, it's that you don't have it with a mouse, so it's not a level playing field. While I'm see-sawing at the tail of my victim, the guy behind me is just pointing and holding down his button. I've played flight games before where you could flip between realistic rudder mode and a simpler one that eliminated this effect. Surely if it's not a factor for mouse users, stick users should be able to shut it off? the stick users are, so to speak, getting the short end of the stick.

I completely agree with what you have stated here! I, also, have recently purchased a Saitek X55 Rhino HOTAS for use here and DCS. I have a massive amount of configuration options with this set, and STILL, cannot get it dampened down enough to target planes properly. I REALLY wish that WG would add a better support/configuration section for stick users...



Ghetto_Bird #23 Posted 12 June 2014 - 05:31 PM

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A lot of good info here. 

I started from day one in WoWP with a stick (Extreme3DPro) and the learning curve has been long, but rewarding.   My wife tried playing the game recently, and the idea of dragging (my word) the reticle around the screen seems REALLY strange. 

There are a couple things I learned the hard way that may help others: 

I had a hard time keeping a smooth pursuit on targets, and remapping my gun controls to one of the 6 buttons on the base of the stick helped a ton.  It turns out I was over-gripping the stick in dogfights and adding a little more torque every time I would pull the trigger, which would cheat the crosshairs that much more off target.  It's the same issue I would have with shooting handgun at times, and being conscious of it is the first step in fixing it. 

Playing with the sensitivity axis has helped a lot as well, especially with fighters.  I am generally better in heavies, and I have come to the conclusion that much of the reason for this is that there is a limit to how rapidly a heavier plane can react to stick input, and change attitude.   I had sold planes like my A5M and I-16 in disgust a couple of months back because every attempt to fly them with a stick produced an exaggerated, awkward, jerking flight that was nearly impossible to hold a target with.   Re-mapping the stick axis has helped with that a ton.

Verishady #24 Posted 13 June 2014 - 05:03 PM

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All the feedback has been great, thank you all.

Things I have to work on:

 

I'm very heavy handed, can fly like a bat, but can't hit a barn.

 

I've used many others joystick settings (posted) and I'm starting to think that these may be pilot based. I would still like to try some more out if you guys post them, thanks.

 

Yes, I will continue to practice. Once again thank you all for posting.



Chuck_norris10 #25 Posted 13 June 2014 - 08:26 PM

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View PostLevenbrech, on 13 June 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

All the feedback has been great, thank you all.

Things I have to work on:

 

I'm very heavy handed, can fly like a bat, but can't hit a barn.

 

I've used many others joystick settings (posted) and I'm starting to think that these may be pilot based. I would still like to try some more out if you guys post them, thanks.

 

Yes, I will continue to practice. Once again thank you all for posting.

Try setting dead zones in yaw,pitch etc,start at 1% or so and work up, I have mine at 6%.

Heres how I have my roll set up but no other axis.http://forum.worldofwarplanes.com/index.php?/topic/19436-joystick-control/page__st__40


Edited by Chuck_norris10, 13 June 2014 - 08:28 PM.

 

 


 

Verishady #26 Posted 13 June 2014 - 10:42 PM

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View PostChuck_norris10, on 13 June 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

Try setting dead zones in yaw,pitch etc,start at 1% or so and work up, I have mine at 6%.

Heres how I have my roll set up but no other axis.http://forum.worldofwarplanes.com/index.php?/topic/19436-joystick-control/page__st__40

I've been using this setup Chuck. I've been increasing the Deadzone after each training room flight, like I stated, I'm kinda heavy handed. It's very different than a gunners power control handle on a M3A2 BFV. I practiced tracing trees, power lines and any non straight line object to refine my touch. That was almost 20 years ago, lol.



SOLOSHOOTER #27 Posted 14 June 2014 - 11:45 AM

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 no worries man,here is something for the masses...logitech 3dpro....get one or something better ,personaly i want the a10 warthogg with realistic thottels and actual flightstick componets.....i just need about $300 lol  so for now the $30 stick works fine.

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DugEFresh #28 Posted 14 June 2014 - 05:02 PM

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Maybe I'm missing the boat (er, Flight) here... I've flown with a joystick since the beginning of computer games on the PC- Yes showing my age here... The only flight games I flew with a mouse were on the Mac some 25+ years ago, 'Hellcat" and "Falcon"...  If anyone over 49 remembers those Classics.

I cant even try to fly with a mouse. I have a Microsoft Force Feedback 2 joystick, and haven't adjusted the standard settings... Is there info on using this ancient method of input? 

 



Verishady #29 Posted 20 June 2014 - 01:55 AM

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Okay, I'm gonna call it Official. I'm terrible with a joystick. Like a freaking bull in a china shop, just cannot get my heavy freaking hands to steady the reticle for shooting down those tiny red planes. Frustration has arrived at my door, and he brought his freaking bags with him, lol.


FREDRIK_01 #30 Posted 20 June 2014 - 09:22 AM

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Well I learnt a lot here fellas thank you. I'm a first time joystick user & have had a huge learning curb in this game. I got myself a old Microsoft sidewinder & was darn near useless in fighters till I read this thread. I'm still useless but am getting better now I have set up the stick, something I did not know I could do till I read this.So I'd just like to say thanks for every ones input, I for 1 needed it.

SOLOSHOOTER #31 Posted 21 June 2014 - 05:19 PM

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View PostDJChrisRock, on 11 June 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

Solo, Thanks for the tip on putting the rear view on the high hat.  Just thinking about using that seems very intuitive.  o7

the rear veiw is on the backwards stroke of the highhat while the 'tracking enemy cam' is assingned to the up position of the highhat. This allows you to fly and never take your eyes off the enemy,all the while maintaining full controle of the plane,but it is dissorienting. i just wanted to make this part clear,you may have missed the targeting enemy ,or you didnt,but there it is for all  ;)



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Chuck_norris10 #32 Posted 22 June 2014 - 06:29 PM

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View PostDugEFresh, on 14 June 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

Maybe I'm missing the boat (er, Flight) here... I've flown with a joystick since the beginning of computer games on the PC- Yes showing my age here... The only flight games I flew with a mouse were on the Mac some 25+ years ago, 'Hellcat" and "Falcon"...  If anyone over 49 remembers those Classics.

I cant even try to fly with a mouse. I have a Microsoft Force Feedback 2 joystick, and haven't adjusted the standard settings... Is there info on using this ancient method of input? 

 

Your not missing the boat,I was having a hard time and have many years flying with the 3d pro but now I can actually hold the crosshairs steady on a target.Some tweaking of yaw,roll and pitch helped,you really have to numb down the sensitivity unless you have the steady hand of a brain surgeon. On less maneuverable planes I can play with default JS settings but in a biplane or other twitchy plane it helps to set high dead zones and adjust the axis.Too bad we cant have a few options for js settings so a person could change axis settings with one click so you could use certain settings for certain planes.


Edited by Chuck_norris10, 22 June 2014 - 06:30 PM.

 

 


 

Bogie_with_Stu #33 Posted 22 June 2014 - 09:28 PM

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Another huge plus to joystick control is learning when to use the air brake, boost and flaps. Flaps help stablize the plane and makes aiming easier when diving.

Verishady #34 Posted 23 June 2014 - 12:22 AM

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View Postzen1360, on 22 June 2014 - 05:28 PM, said:

Another huge plus to joystick control is learning when to use the air brake, boost and flaps. Flaps help stablize the plane and makes aiming easier when diving.

Yeah, I am still trying to do this, although I'm just about over it, lol. I'm of the opinion that a joystick is the way to fly, but I believe that the controls for joysticks in WoWP may need some work. I also believe if that happens it may chase away pilots who use a mouse. Nobody wins in my opinion.



chikago #35 Posted 25 June 2014 - 05:57 PM

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I just started using the joy stick and after all my life of using a mouse, I'm screwed. I do fine in a GA plane but who wouldn't?

I only train for a short period of time each day.i don't have the patience to constantly get my butt whooped.

 

 



Ziptop69 #36 Posted 24 July 2014 - 03:31 AM

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Hi all. 

I've been flying joystick since the dawn of PC gaming too. :-D

Different joysticks have different sensitivities. (components etc) - something I had not actually thought about much before, until breaking the trigger off my old Cyborg Evo and starting my journey through WoWp in search of the best stick. 

 

My most recent move was to a Thrustmaster T16000m which uses Hall Effect sensors and feels way more sensitive than the Cyborg Evo or Logitech Attack3 - different sticks can be trimmed in game in the joystick axis setup and this does make a difference. Sticks from better manufacturers will also possibly have the option to reduce sensitivity in their own software/drivers. 

 

In the absence of manufacturer provided software you can always try DXTweak or vJoy to set up those deadzones and stick sensitivity the way you like. 

 

There is a thread here on the WoWp NA forum about DCTweak - http://forum.worldofwarplanes.com/index.php?/topic/3724-dxtweak2-fixes-your-problems/

and you can find vJoy here.... http://vjoystick.sourceforge.net/site/index.php/forum/5-Discussion/381-ujr-universal-joystick-remapper-ahk-gui-script

 

In future I am thinking of moving to either a Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS (with custom leftie handles) or in the longer the VKB Black Mamba with a custom left handed stick. 

 

http://flightsimcontrols.com/store/joysticks/vkb-fat-black-mamba-for-non-eu/

 

First priority though for me is to get pedals for rudder control!



Traurig_Yoda #37 Posted 24 July 2014 - 02:52 PM

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View PostSOLOSHOOTER, on 09 June 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

Playing WOWP can be done one handed,with the other tied behind my back....3DPro  makes it possable... heres how. The highhat of course is your look left, right,and,  ...pay attention.. behind........for the enemy tracking i use my highhat 'up' keystroke. Buttons # 5 and #6 are assigned too rockets and bombs......... buttons #3 zoom camera/sniper camera......button #4 is my 'select next target'...  the button on the side #2 is assigned too 'airbrake' aka flaps...... Oh and dont forget to make the trigger really go boom with your guns. The buttons on the bottom of the stick i assign to my 3 consumables and a simple radio message of clear my tail,, roger,,negative, attacking player' ' .

 OK now thats a basic layout, of course your going to experament and see what works for you.The highat 'up' key assigned to tracking an enemy is critical......So is remembering you now have controle over the speed......something alot of players forget ,myself included. Next bit of advice is to assing a negative1 % to all joystick axises...the deadzone. All you need is for it to not be so touchy....,it 'overstears'...so damping the controles helps when your in the heat of the moment and kinda excited.Practice practice practice.........and get outa that training room, watya skeeeert ? So go kill someone with that new joystick!!

 

I only have one hand to play with due to a stroke, your setup is almost the exact same as mine except I don't use any dead zone setups.






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