21 replies to this topic

[J311yfish]

A recent poll by Gunlion mentioned the possibility of a Brazilian tech tree.  What might that look like?  

 

Work in progress

 

Premiums, alternates, gift planes (tiers approx):

	Alternates (tiers approx):
I	Boeing F2B (11/1926; to Brazil ___) NiD-42/52/62/72 (1924+; to Brazil ___) Vought O2U Corsair (1926+; to Brazil ___) Fairey Gordon (03/1931; to Brazil ___)
II	Amiot 122 Bp3 (1925; to Brazil ___) Curtiss Falcon (1925+; to Brazil ____) LeO 25 (1928; to Brazil ___) Focke Wulf Fw 58 (1935; licensed production)
III
IV
V
VI	Avenger (08/1941; to Brazil ___)
VII
VIII	MB-326 (1957+; to Brazil ___)
IX
X	Pelé (10/1940+)

 

 

Sources

The Complete Book of Fighters, by William Green and Gordon Swanborough (2011)

History of the Brazilian Air Force

Brazil aircraft paint schemes

Flight Magazine archive

Profile 230: Dassault Mirage Variants, by John F. Brindley

 

more

 

Muniz designations

Boeing designations

Vultee designations

North American designations

Aermacchi designations

Embraer designations

 

 

Work in progress

 

Old Versions

-- 1.02

 

ALL AIRCRAFT

Dates below are the "first flight" of the aircraft development (for reasonable sorting purposes), not the date it was received by Brazil (more difficult to determine)

 

FIGHTERS
1925+    Nieuport-Delage NiD-42/52/62/72 -- [sidenote: possible Tier I for France]    

1926    Boeing F2B

1928    Boeing 256/P-12/F4B

1935    Curtiss P-36 Hawk/Hawk 75
1938    Curtiss P-40 Warhawk/Kittyhawk/Tomahawk
1941    Republic RP-47B, P-47D Thunderbolt ... rec'd 1944
1943    Gloster Meteor F.Mk.8, T.Mk.7  ...rec'd 1952
1944    Lockheed F-80/P-80 Shooting Star ... rec'd 1958
1956    Dassault Mirage III -- [sidenote: this is not expected for Tier X France due to prior Dassault developments]
1959    Northrop F-5E/F/G/F-20 Tiger 2/Tigershark    
1978    Dassault Mirage 2000

ATTACK

19__    Potez 25 TOE / 'A-117'

1925    Curtiss Falcon

1939    Douglas A-20/DB-7/P-70 Boston/Havoc ....A-20K, later RA-20K, then named R-20
1939    Vultee A-19 (V-11)/BSh-1
1941    Vultee A-31/A-35(V-72) Vengeance  1700hp  4x7.62mm  1x7.62mm rear ... intended but not activated
1941    Grumman TBF/TBM Avenger  1900hp
1942    Douglas A-26/B-26 Invader ... rec'd 1957
1954    Douglas A-4 Skyhawk
1957    Aermacchi MB.326/Impala/AT-26 Xavante .... rec'd ____?
1984    Embraer AMX
1999    Embraer ALX    1600hp

 

MISC

1926    Vought O2U Corsair -- [sidenote: possible alternate Tier I for China]

1932    Beech Model 17 Staggerwing/Traveller -- "pressed into service as a bomber by the Spanish Republican Air Force"

1935    Noorduyn C-64 Norseman

1944    Piper L-4H spotting/liaison
1961    Neiva L-42 Regente

TRAINERS -- some of these were armed

19__   Stearman Kaydet

19__   DH 60X Moth

19__   DH 60T Moth

19__   DH 60

1929   Muniz M-5 biplane ... debut 1929 competition in France

19__   Muniz M-6 -- never completed; later designated M-8, never completed (source)

1935   Muniz M-7  130hp "first to be completely built from national components"

19__   Muniz M-8

1937   Muniz M-9  200hp

19__   Muniz M-10

1941   Muniz M-11

1930    Avro 626 Prefect    210hp

1932    Focke-Wulf Fw.44 Stieglitz
1934    Stearman PT-13/PT-17/N2S Kaydet    ~220hp
1935    Focke-Wulf Fw.58 Weihe -- 2x7.92mm MG 15
1935    North American Texan/Harvard/Wirraway/BT-9/BT-14 -- "provision for up to 3x7.62mm"  ~400hp
1939    Fairchild PT-19/PT-23/PT-26/M.62 Cornell
1947    Fokker S.11/S.12/T.21/T.22 Instructor
1948    Lockheed T-33/RT-33/T-1/T2V Shooting Star/Seastar -- 2x12.7mm + 907kg bombs/rockets ...rec'd 1956
1949    North American T-28 Trojan/Fennec -- various wing-mounted armaments possible
1953    Pilatus P-3 -- "provision for light armament under the wings"   240hp
1966    Neiva 621/T-25 Universal I/II    
1966    Embraer T-25/AT-25 Universal

____    MB-326G jet trainer (AT-26 Xavante) ... rec'd 1972
1980    Embraer EMB-312/T-27 Tucano/EMB-314/A-29 Super Tucano    

 

BOMBERS

1925    Amiot 122 Bp3 'K622'  660hp ***  Tier II

1928    LeO 25

1934    Savoia Marchetti SM.79 Sparviero
1940    Lockheed PV/PV-2/B-34 Ventura/Harpoon -- 2x2000hp -- crew 6, served in medium bomber group (PV-1 rec'd 1940, PV-2 rec'd 1943)

1940    North American B-25B Mitchell

1941    Douglas B-18 Bolo

1942    North American B-25C

1944    North American B-25J-15, B-25J-20

 

FLYING BOATS

1917    Curtiss Model HS-2L

19__    Curtiss Model MF

19__    Curtiss Model F-5L

19__    Savoia Marchetti S.55 (SM-55A)
1935    Consolidated PBY-5/5A Catalina -- historically significant   
1949    Grumman U-16 Albatross    

Martin PM (Model 117)

ASW/PATROL
1945    Lockheed P-2 Neptune
1952    Grumman S-2 Tracker

 

TIER I

Nieuport-Delage NiD-72 ....metallized offshoot of NiD-42 (NiD-52 --> NiD 72)

Vought O2U Corsair

Amiot 122

Curtiss O-1E Falcon ***

 

EARLY/WEAK

1915    Nieuport 14/15/82    140hp
1913    Avro 504/K1Y        110hp
1916    Nieuport 17/21/23/24/25/27

19__    WACO CSO    225hp

Hanriot 410  100hp

Nieuport 81

Morane Saulnier MS29  <150hp

Curtiss JN 2

 

 

CIVILIAN/MAIL -- some of these may have been weaponized during rebellions, investigate

WACO C90

WACO CJC Cabine

WACO CSO seaplane

WACO CPF F-5 seaplane

WACO CPF F-5

1935    Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress ... rec'd 1958

1939   WACO EGC-7

1940   Beechdcraft D-17A 'C-43'

1940   CNNA HL-1 ... 123 built

1942   CNNA HL-6 ... 60 built

1943   Beechcraft C-45

1944   Douglas C-47

____   Catalina PBY 'C 10' .... rec'd 1958, previous used for ASW patrol

C-54G

 

TRANSPORT/AIRLINER

1932    Latecore 28 transport, with intension of using it for bombing

1933    Douglas DC-1/DC-2/DC-3/C-47/C-53/R4D/Dakota
1938    Lockheed A-28/A-29 Hudson -- 2x1200hp

1952    Muniz Casmuniz 52 -- single prototype designed by Antonio Muniz
1954    Lockheed C-130/L-100 Hercules
1964    de Havilland Canada DHC-5 Buffalo
1967    Boeing Model 737/T-43 Bobcat/C-40 Clipper
1968    Embraer EMB-110/C-95 Bandeirante
1975    Embraer EMB-111/P-95 Bandeirulha
1997    CASA C-295
1999    Embraer P-99
2014    Embraer KC-390    

 

 

HELICOPTERS
1956    Bell 204/205/212/214/UH-1 Iroquois/Huey
1959    Sikorsky S-61/H-3 Sea King/Commando
1965    Aerospatiale SA.330/SA.332/AS.532/EC.225/EC.725 Puma/Super Puma/Cougar
1967    Bell 206/406 Ranger/OH-4/OH-58 Kiowa
1971    Westland Lynx
1974    Sikorsky S-70/H-60 Black Hawk
1974    Aerospatiale SA(AS).350/355/550/555 Ecureuil/Fennec/Esquilo
1975    Aerospatiale SA.365 Dauphin 2/HH-65 Dolphin/AS.565 Panther

 

UNKNOWN

Caudron 93-bis .... likely <1933

 

 

QUICK TIMELINE

 

 

Brazil mail service established

Brazil used as a stopping point for trans-Atlantic flights

 

1937    Brazil Army Air Corps consists mostly of Waco and Curtiss aircraft (Flight 5/1937) .. reference made to Muniz I aircraft

1938    Brazil acquires Savoia-Marchetti bombers (Flight 02/1938)

1939    Vultee V-11's under construction to be sent to Brazil (Flight 06/1939)

1939    Brazil gives 2 unspecified aircraft to Argentina as a gesture of friendship (Flight 08/1939)

1940    Britain sends Cygnet aircraft to Brazil (Flight 08/1940, Flight 11/1940, Flight 12/1940)

1941    Fairey Gordon and Fairey Seal to Brazil before this time (Flight 02/1941)

1942    Brazil's 'Fabrica Nacionale de Motores' to produce Wright Whirlwind engines 245-450hp under license; first aircraft engine company in Brazil (Flight 05/1942)

1942    Fairchild aircraft production agreement "largest contract yet" for American aircraft (Flight 09/1942, Flight 09/1943)

1942    Brazil nationalizes Italian L.A.T.I. and German Condor aircraft companies/equipment (Flight 11/1942)

1942    Brazil seizes Italian Savoia-Marchetti SM.83 flying boats (Flight 07/1943)

1943    Brazil Air Force agreement with U.S. to produce Ranger engines up to 200hp under license (Flight 02/1944)

1944    Brazil aircraft-engine factory opens (Flight 02/1944)

1944    U.S. gives aircraft to Brazil [unspecified] (Flight 04/1944)

1944    U.S. gives Catalina PBY's to Brazil (Flight 12/1944)

1945    U.S. sells surplus Douglas and Lockheed transports to Brazil (Flight 01/1945)

1945    10 aviation companies being organized in Brazil; purchased Avro Ansons from Canada, with plans to purchase other types (Flight 11/1945); 1 crashed December 1945 (source)

1945    U.S. Pan American Airways transfers some ownership to Brazil (Flight 11/1945)

1945    MIT Professor Richard Harbert Smith hired by Brazilian government to start an aeronautical school; Instituto Tecnológico de Aeronáutica established 1950 (source)

1946    Percival Proctor to Brazil (Flight 01/1946)

1947

1948

1949

1950

1950     Instituto Tecnológico de Aeronáutica established (source)

1951

1952

1952+   Henrich Focke in Brazil ...convertiplane project made from Spitfire airframe

1953

1954

1955

1956

1956   Henrich Focke returns to Germany

1957

1958

1959

1960    Brazil Air Force Academy established

 

 

DESIGNERS

 

Alberto Santos-Dumont

 

Antonio Muniz

 

 

MANUFACTURERS

 

CNNA-- 

 

 

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 03 November 2018 - 06:07 PM.

[J311yfish]

Tier I -- Boeing F4B (Model 256, 267)

 

II Pratt & Whitney R-1340-16 550hp  302 km/h @ 1830m     2x7.62mm  2x53kg bombs

 

-- F4B-3, F4B-4, with some modifications, including in some cases P-12E wings; 

 

 

 

 

---

 

 

Tier I alternates

 

Boeing F2B

 

Production	Airframe	Engine	Speed	Armament	Bombs
1 received	Model 69-B	Pratt & Whitney R-1340 Wasp 425hp	254 km/h	2x7.62mm  or 1x7.62mm and 1x12.7mm

 

Notes:

-- "The first Boeing fighter designed from the outset specifically for shipboard operation ... Employing a steel-tube fuselage, wooden wings, fabric skinning ..." (Green, 74)

-- 32 production examples built by Boeing; deliveries to U.S. Navy beginning January 30, 1938 (Green, 74)

-- 2 additional examples built for export given company designation Model 69-B; 1 to Brazil, 1 to Japan (Green, 74)

-- date received by Brazil

-- designation assigned by Brazil

 

 

 

Nieuport-Delage NiD-42/52/62/72

 

-- NiD-42/62 expected Tier I for France

-- NiD-52/72 is essentially a metallized offshoot of NiD-42

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 23 June 2014 - 07:52 PM.

[J311yfish]

Tier II -- Curtiss Falcon

 

Notes:

-- 1932 Constitutional Revolution

 

 

North American NA-44

 

used for patrol

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 13 July 2014 - 11:12 AM.

[J311yfish]

Tier III -- Vultee V-11

Production	Airframe	Engine	Speed	Armament	Bombs
26 received	Vultee V-11GB2*	III Wright GR-1820-G2 850hp	354-369 km/h	2x7.62mm (W)    1x flex	20x30lb  / 4x300lb / 1x1100lb **
(1 adapted)	Vultee V-11GB2F

*V-11-GB variant added a third crew member as bomb-aimer, observation windows in rear fuselage sides for bomb aiming, and reduced wing armament to 2x7.62mm

** about 270kg of bombs internal bomb bay, 550kg external (Andersson, 259)

 

Notes:

-- the V-11 formed the basis of the Soviet BSh-1 attack aircraft in game ... which eventually became the IL-2

-- "Originally the V-11 had no armor protection for the crew, power plant or fuel tanks" [the BSh-1 added armor] (Andersson, 259)

-- "...semi-monocoque stressed-skin structure of elliptical cross-section, incorporating an internal bomb-bay.  A continuous four-section canopy joined the two cockpits and the stepped aft section of the canopy was pivoted at its base to permit deployment of an aft-firing machine gun.  The fuselage structure included four strong longerons but no stringers and the metal skin was of 1.5-2.5mm thickness." (Andersson, 259)

-- squad insignia / also used in China

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 23 June 2014 - 07:51 PM.

[J311yfish]

Tier IV fighter -- Curtiss P-36A

 

 

 

Tier IV attack -- Vultee A-31 Vengeance

 

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 11 June 2014 - 11:05 PM.

[J311yfish]

 

 

Tier V fighter -- Curtiss P-40

Production	Airframe	Engine	Speed	Armament	Bombs
	H81A-3 ("Tomahawk IIB")	V Allison V-1710-33 1090hp	555 km/h @ 4575m	2x12.7mm M2 (S)  4x7.62mm M1919-A4 (W)	Yes
	P-40E	V Allison V-1710-39 1150hp*	583 km/h @ 4572m	6x12.7mm (W)	Yes
	P-40K	Allison V-1710-73 (F4R) 1325hp
	P-40M	VI Allison V-1710-81 1200hp
	P-40N	VI Allison V-1710-81 1200hp	608 km/h @ 3048m	4-6x12.7mm (W)
	P-40N-40-CU	Allison V-1710-115 1360hp

* engine also used by P-51A

 

Notes:

-- the engines highlighted above are those that are currently in game for the P-40 found in the American tech tree (which also has a V-1710-85 1200hp); therefore the P-40's used by Brazil may be comparable.

-- The V-1710-33 is also found in the "Tomahawk IIB" premium (below), and is comparable to the Soviet P-40 premium, which uses M-105-PA 1100hp engine for 547 km/h.

-- [based on the Allison engines now in game for the P-38, it may be possible to stretch P-40 to cover Tier V and VI with 5 engines, as the P-38 for U.S.A. is stretched across Tier V and VI with 4 engines]

-- also used by the Flying Tigers in China

 

Tier V attack -- Douglas A-20

 

 

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 23 June 2014 - 07:53 PM.

[J311yfish]

Tier VI fighter -- Republic P-47B Thunderbolt

 

 

 

 

Tier VI attack -- Douglas A-26B/C Invader

 

 

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 11 June 2014 - 11:04 PM.

[J311yfish]

Tier VII -- Republic P-47D Thunderbolt

Production	Airframe	Engine	Speed	Armament
94	P-47D	Pratt & Whitney R-2800-59 2535hp	697 km/h @ 9145m	8x12.7mm M2	bombs/rockets
	P-47N	VIII Pratt & Whitney R-2800-57© 2800hp (early), -77 (late)	752 km/h @ 9905m	8x12.7mm M2

 

Notes:

-- 1st Fighter Group formed December 18 1943, to be deployed with USAAF in Europe (source)

-- pilots were trained first on P-40's in Panama, then for ~70 hours in P-47 before deployment  (source)

-- 31 P-47's allocated to the unit, with up to 37 more in reserve; total of 22 lost in combat or accidents over 184 days of operation (source)

-- 1st Fighter Group against Italy November 1944 - May 1945 (source)

-- P-47D's transferred to training unit 1953; operational flying terminated July 30 1957 (source)

-- a total of 94 P-47's of various configurations used by the Brazilian Air Force over the course of 14 years (source) [see source for airframe/armament details ]

 

 

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 25 June 2014 - 06:27 PM.

[J311yfish]

Tier VIII -- Gloster Meteor F Mk.8

Production*	Airframe	Engine	Speed	Armament	Bombs
8 to Brazil	Meteor 7
60 to Brazil	Meteor 8 (F Mk.8)	2x Derwent 8  3600 lbf each	950 km/h @ SL 853 km/h @ 12190m	4x20mm

*(James, 419)

 

Notes:

-- single-seat interceptor fighter, all-metal stressed skin construction (Thetford, 274)

-- "Although not used by RAF squadrons overseas, [Meteor F Mk.8's] of the Royal Australian Air Force were the only British jets to see action in Korea." (Thetford, 273)

-- first flight October 12, 1948; first delivery December 10, 1949; entered British service June 29, 1950; last production April 9, 1954 (Thetford, 273-274); acquired by Brazil November 1952 (source)

-- British replaced with Hunters in 1955; completely replaced by April 1957 (Thetford, 273)

-- climb: 6950'/min initially (35.3 m/s), 16:01 to 12192m (12.7 m/s avg)

-- nose / front

 

Sources:

Aircraft of the Royal Air Force Since 1918 (Putnam), by Owen Thetford (1978)

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 09 August 2014 - 07:56 AM.

[J311yfish]

Tier IX -- Lockheed F-80C Shooting Star

 

XP-80

XP-80A

YP-80A

P-80A  J33-GE-11  1746kgp  (3850 lbf)     6x12.7mm            ...Green claims this speed for P-80A but does not specify which engine:  898 km/h @ SL     5.5min to 6100m (18.5 m/s avg)

P-80A  J33-A-17    1814kgp (4000 lbf)

P-80B upgraded engines/armament, no details given

P-80C J33-A-23  2086kgp (4600 lbf)     6x12.7mm Browning M3   up to 907kg of bombs or 12x127mm HVAR 

P-80C  J-33-A-35   2450kgp (5400 lbf)

 

-- T-33 [pictured] and F-80C

-- Derived from XP-80; XP-80 development began June 23 1943; first XP-80 flight January 8 1944, reaching 808 km/h @ 6240m with de Havilland 1-HB 1116kgp (Green, 345)

-- P-80C first flight March 1, 1948; name changed to F-80C in June 1948 (Pursuit --> Fighter); arrived in Brazil January 17, 1958 (source)

-- 33 to Brazil after withdrawal from USAAF service; also sent to Chile (18), Columbia (16), Ecuador (16), Peru (16), Uruguay (14) (Green, 345)

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 25 June 2014 - 05:36 PM.

[J311yfish]

Tier X fighter -- Dassault Mirage III

 

Mirage IIIE tactical strike   Atar 09C3  13760 lbf w/ reheat .... SEPR 844 rocket can be fitted .... prototype first flight April 5, 1961; first production flight January 14 1964 ... "most widely exported variant" (Brindley, 177)

Mirage IIID -- 2-seat trainer variant

 

 

Notes:

-- Prototype first flight November 7, 1956; first flight under Brazilian colors March 6, 1972 (source)

-- Mach 1.5-2.2

-- side view

 

 

Tier X attack -- Douglas A-4 Skyhawk

 

 

Notes:

-- prototype first flight June 22, 1954; purchased from Kuwait 1998 (source)

-- design team led by Ed Heinemann (Gunston, 156)

-- first flight June 22, 1954 (Gunston, 156)

-- 2x20mm Colt in the wingroots; 4000 lb bomb load (2000 lb center pylon, 1000 lb each wing) (Gunston, 158)

-- some export versions 2x30mm DEFA 553

 

	speed	speed w/ bombs
A-4A	1069 km/h
A-4F	1086 km/h	954 km/h
A-4M		1038 km/h

 

 

 

 

 

Tier X alternates

 

Pelé

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 25 June 2014 - 06:38 PM.

[Raindrops]

That bit of the poll kinda caught me off guard - I'd never really thought of the Brazillian air force before. Hopefully something interesting can be dug out of this though.

 

To the best of my knowledge, during the era, they fed off of Curtiss designs, (Hawk, Warhawk, etc.) but I'm not sure of what Brazillian indigenous designs are.

[J311yfish]

Me too.  Updated OP for a very rough indicator.

[J311yfish]

First update.  

 

There are not many choices so the tree essentially builds itself, composed primarily of imported American aircraft.

[NemesisStar]

Too many U.S. Planes with alternate paint jobs.

[zkyz]

Nice work man !

As a brazillian I must +1 to you !

Tyvm !

Edited by zkyz, 13 June 2014 - 02:38 PM.

[J311yfish]

Obrigado, saúde!

[Lofao_O]

The "Pelé" is more a rocket than a plane, look :

-speed : mach 4

-maneuvrability : full loop in 3 seconds, rotation speed : 360 degrees per second

-firepower : two feet+shoes+Pelé

Tooooo OP :)

[Heh]

Maybe you'd need to clarify that you're talking about the very inferior Mirage 3 prototypes that were subsonic. Just in case.

[J311yfish]

Heh, on 28 June 2014 - 03:44 PM, said:

Maybe you'd need to clarify that you're talking about the very inferior Mirage 3 prototypes that were subsonic. Just in case.

 

You are absolutely right, I just don't know how that might be handled.  Would Brazil be given the research path that was actually conducted by the French? or would they be limited to the equipment provided to them?  I don't know.  Using the slower A-4 alone may be the solution.