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Fw-190 A-5/D


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WanderingGhost #1 Posted 26 May 2014 - 10:46 PM

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Okay, so, last night I got stuck in a match in my 190 A-5 that went through tier 8, but was mostly heavies. So I figured the usual out turn them and shred them would work. Go in, dodge a head on with a pancake, flame one of the few other fighters,start to turn with the pancake on my tail. And get shot out of the air loosing a turning battle to a tier 8 heavy. Naturally, my first reaction was "bull$%&" left the match, started looking at the planes performance etc on the off chance for some weird reason it could out turn me.

 

At which point I learned it can, as well as basically any non German heavy fighter not carrying ordnance. The only aircraft that it stands half a chance against in a turning battle, aside from jets, are the F7F and the P-38J. The only ones rated as having less firepower are the XP-50 and the P-38J who closer match in hitpoints, but the J has a 37mm and the XP-50 makes a 360 turn almost 3 seconds faster. Sure this thing has roll rate, but your still talking Differences of less then a second on entering a full 90 degree bank turn. Which doesn't really make up for the difference in actual turn rate. And I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why this is.

 

All my researching while yes, in later war operations it was used more toward ground attack, and that it usually targeted bombers while 109's flying with them dealt with fighters, that except at high altitude the 190 was as good or better then the 109 series. Now, I can understand given it's rather high firepower for a fighter giving it a lower turn rate then all the others so that it's a boom and zoom and won't just annihilate everything  because it can turn too. But 109's which with their max set up, vs a 190 set up to have the same guns has only 1 extra 20mm cannon, has a nearly 9 second slower 360 degree turn speed. Now compare that to a mosquito, same tier, has 1 extra 20mm vs a 109, and 2 extra Mg's, and more then double its weight, is only just over 7 seconds slower in turning compared to the 109. The 190 while close to it, still has a lower DPS then the mosquito, has roughly 28% more hit points, better climb rate, and edge in top speed at altitude and even actually has a lower stall speed. and looking at the D, it doesn't really seem to improve.

 

Now, I haven't flown the 190D yet, but I have flown the 190 A-5, and while against other fighters it generally feels fine given that while the corsair top line matches it, the unnerfed mustang wins in speed and a spitfire is relatively close, it does have a ton of fire power by comparison, but against heavies seems lacking in a 1 on 1 fight. Generally it seems you could drop the 190 A-5 and 190 D 360 time to 24-26 seconds max without killing the balance. Every single fighter will still out turn it, rather handedly, heavy fighters would still maintain the main advantage they have over every other fighter, they'd still have more HP and firepower, and a bit more speed and the like, but the 190 would be able to beat heavies in a turn or at the very least match them in a turn.

 

Maybe there's something I'm missing but do others generally agree with me on this, is there some grander balance equation I'm missing here.

 

 


Aces/Destroyer/Ace(post1.9)(#of/#) - A6M1(7/1), P-36(1), BF-109b(3), Ao-192(1), beaufighter(3/1), BF-109z(2), P-12(2), A6M2(3), P-51a(4), Yak-7(2), Bf-110C-6(2), F4F(2/4), Blenheim(2), BSH-2(1), XP-50(1),  BF-109f(1), LA-5(1), Spitfire I(2), P-40 M-105(3), BF-110e(1), F4U-1(1), FW-190 A-5(4), I-16e.(1), XF4F-3(1), A6M5(5), F7F(1), XF4U-1(1), Bf-109E (1), A7M (2), I-16l (1), P-38f (1), P-40 (1), Mig-3 (1)


losttwo #2 Posted 26 May 2014 - 11:04 PM

    which way do we go?

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The speed at which you travel has an adverse reaction to your turns as well as the way you make them.

The faster you go the longer and wider turn you will make while the slower you go the tighter you will turn.

One of the ways in which I attempt, with much success, to out turn my target is to go nose up into a 30 degree banking turn deploying brake and flaps for a fast slow down and finish the turn in a shallow downward angle.

If I am the target I never just continue a turn while the enemy is on my tail. I will use evasive maneuvers which contain more than just a flat turn.

You of course need to watch the stall speed of each plane you fly but the slower you go the more you will out turn someone going faster.

Forgive me if I am wrong but I do believe the turn time listed in the stats are at normal speed.

Practice in the training room against more agile targets and learn to " go slow " while using brake flaps and boost combinations.

Go ahead and make their jaw drop when you out turn them with the end result of killing them.



Wing_Commander_Zero #3 Posted 26 May 2014 - 11:27 PM

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the 190s are horizontal boom and zoom planes. They one of the fastest planes in their respective tiers that coupled with their excellent roll rates makes then good planes in my book.

Kiwiav8r #4 Posted 26 May 2014 - 11:31 PM

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I love the A5.  You swoop in from altitude and blast your targets apart with obscene levels of firepower.  While its true that most fighters will out turn it, not many can out roll it or keep up in terms of straight line speed.

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oldkye #5 Posted 27 May 2014 - 12:23 AM

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People look to much at on paper stats some times and don't focus on the in practice a A6M1 has great turning at 2,500 meters it's average at best the P-38 is amazing maneuverable at optimum altitude but fighting at 500 meters your better off in a boat.

The FW 190 A-5 performs best at typical dog fighting altitudes and due to it's speeds to chase it P-38's ect have to come down to "it's level" where they lose speed and turning ability people ignore this because they gain speed "during" a dive but that only works if you kill it on the first pass.

And with it's roll rate the FW line is very hard to kill in one pass in fact it often takes 3 or move planes to shoot me down despite basically flying in a straight line.

 

I can tell you for a fact after playing both P-38's fully upgraded they do not benefit from that same ability to dodge bullets and must rely more on out speeding and climbing the enemy.



Lieutenant_ERB #6 Posted 27 May 2014 - 12:46 AM

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I have only been in tier one and two and my game doesn't load so yea im a nub

WanderingGhost #7 Posted 27 May 2014 - 02:00 AM

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View Postoldkye, on 26 May 2014 - 08:23 PM, said:

People look to much at on paper stats some times and don't focus on the in practice a A6M1 has great turning at 2,500 meters it's average at best the P-38 is amazing maneuverable at optimum altitude but fighting at 500 meters your better off in a boat.

The FW 190 A-5 performs best at typical dog fighting altitudes and due to it's speeds to chase it P-38's ect have to come down to "it's level" where they lose speed and turning ability people ignore this because they gain speed "during" a dive but that only works if you kill it on the first pass.

And with it's roll rate the FW line is very hard to kill in one pass in fact it often takes 3 or move planes to shoot me down despite basically flying in a straight line.

 

I can tell you for a fact after playing both P-38's fully upgraded they do not benefit from that same ability to dodge bullets and must rely more on out speeding and climbing the enemy.

 

Not actually relying solely on the paper stats, but in game observation of loosing turning fights against heavy fighters, but was referencing them in that what it says on paper was what was happening in game, a fighter loosing a turning fight to heavies even though it generally given the pseudo rock-paper-scissors between GA, HF and fighters that fighters out turn heavy fighters, except the 190 line. Which all things considered seems weird to me. Either way I'll take some of what I see in here and see if that helps me at least a little.


Aces/Destroyer/Ace(post1.9)(#of/#) - A6M1(7/1), P-36(1), BF-109b(3), Ao-192(1), beaufighter(3/1), BF-109z(2), P-12(2), A6M2(3), P-51a(4), Yak-7(2), Bf-110C-6(2), F4F(2/4), Blenheim(2), BSH-2(1), XP-50(1),  BF-109f(1), LA-5(1), Spitfire I(2), P-40 M-105(3), BF-110e(1), F4U-1(1), FW-190 A-5(4), I-16e.(1), XF4F-3(1), A6M5(5), F7F(1), XF4U-1(1), Bf-109E (1), A7M (2), I-16l (1), P-38f (1), P-40 (1), Mig-3 (1)


oldkye #8 Posted 27 May 2014 - 02:04 AM

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Your also ignoring my point ^.^ lol been in the same situation with the same plane fighting the same heavy and I out turned them cause I didn't try to fight them on "their playing field."



eggplant84 #9 Posted 27 May 2014 - 01:03 PM

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View PostWing_Commander_Zero, on 27 May 2014 - 12:27 AM, said:

the 190s are horizontal boom and zoom planes. They one of the fastest planes in their respective tiers that coupled with their excellent roll rates makes then good planes in my book.

 

 

I kinda gotta take issue with this, I understand they are supposed to be but in truth after tier 5, I find no shortage of planes who can keep up with or overtake them entirely. The statement you make, same as WG's initial statement sounds like normal propaganda/drivel.






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