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[spoiler] what the French tech tree could look like

France tech tree Dewoitine Morane-Saulnier Potez Bloch Dassault Arsenal Breguet Caudron

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Lofao_O #61 Posted 13 June 2014 - 11:43 AM

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But it has 4*30mm cannons and Hp while Ouragan only has 2 and will be weaker.

Lego1157 #62 Posted 13 June 2014 - 12:30 PM

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J311yfish you are amazing. I really hope french planes come out soon that would be AWESOME!:great:
Lego1157 salutes you! u[-_-]

Demon93IT #63 Posted 13 June 2014 - 12:45 PM

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View PostLofao_O, on 13 June 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

But it has 4*30mm cannons and Hp while Ouragan only has 2 and will be weaker.


The Ouragan has four guns, as you can see here.



Lofao_O #64 Posted 13 June 2014 - 02:18 PM

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Fous Hs.404, yes. but only two DEFA cannons.

Demon93IT #65 Posted 13 June 2014 - 02:28 PM

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View PostLofao_O, on 13 June 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

Fous Hs.404, yes. but only two DEFA cannons.


The Attacker has four Hispano Mk V and they are wing mounted. The only fighter with 4x30 mm cannons is the Hunter



Lofao_O #66 Posted 13 June 2014 - 02:51 PM

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And ? The Hispano V are tier 8 guns, and DEFA should be tier 9 or 10. Hs.404 tier 7 or 8. And why do you talk about the hunter ? It has 4*30mm Aden, yes. But where is the Ouragan here ?

Demon93IT #67 Posted 13 June 2014 - 03:09 PM

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View PostLofao_O, on 13 June 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

And ? The Hispano V are tier 8 guns, and DEFA should be tier 9 or 10. Hs.404 tier 7 or 8. And why do you talk about the hunter ? It has 4*30mm Aden, yes. But where is the Ouragan here ?


It's the MD 450, placed at tier IX(here)



J311yfish #68 Posted 13 June 2014 - 03:28 PM

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I'm not sure what your source is for 2 guns on the Ouragan.  The best case for reduced armament that I have seen is 4x15mm used in the first 3 prototypes.  I will look closer at Docavia #13 in case Green has missed something (slower for me because it is in French), but even then I don't see how it can really change anything because you still have the matter of chronological development and balance horizontally to other lines and other countries.

 

Chronologically, Me 262 had a 7-8 year head start on Ouragan/Mystere.  If you put them on even footing then you are supposing that technological lag or stop-gap developments didn't exist.  How do you make a case for ignoring Hispano-Suiza 12Z, 24Z, or Arsenal 12H, 24H engines (4-7 years of development)?


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Lofao_O #69 Posted 13 June 2014 - 04:07 PM

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First, I apologise, the two DEFA are on th MD.450 30L, not the MD 450. Also, I were thinking for the leaked french tree, where the Ouragan is tier 8, not 9. So I were thinking in tier 8 terms.

 

View PostJ311yfish, on 13 June 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

Chronologically, Me 262 had a 7-8 year head start on Ouragan/Mystere.  If you put them on even footing then you are supposing that technological lag or stop-gap developments didn't exist.  How do you make a case for ignoring Hispano-Suiza 12Z, 24Z, or Arsenal 12H, 24H engines (4-7 years of development)?

For me, if a plane from 1945 is powerful enough to fight against planes from 1955, np, same tier, even if the technologies are aged, the design allows to fight on the same step.

So, for the tier 8, IF WG considers that the Ouragan is as powerful as a prop plane from the world war, they can put it anyway, I'm fine with it.



Lofao_O #70 Posted 23 June 2014 - 12:07 PM

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My own vision of the French tree :

Spoiler

(*) = No historical link to his predecessor, only similar expected gameplay

(**) or any other projects for a strategic bomber, which was won by the Mirage IV.

(****) guns added to the prototype ( the 1215 km/h one)

Tier 8-10 heavy fighter trio : SE 2400-01 (Grognard with wing mounted engines and a right wing), tier 9 SE 1400, Tier 10 SE 24-- fighter version of the SE 2410, stayed as a study, all without their payload for balance. But I don't see how to introduce them (researched from SE 580 may be ?)


Edited by Lofao_O, 25 June 2014 - 12:50 PM.


climbing_AF #71 Posted 23 June 2014 - 05:29 PM

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yes. a full nations worth. great read! i wish i could hit "update" now.

J311yfish #72 Posted 25 June 2014 - 09:35 PM

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Here is a quick overview of Dassault Ouragan developments leading up to production.

 

 

 


Edited by J311yfish, 25 June 2014 - 09:36 PM.

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Lofao_O #73 Posted 28 June 2014 - 02:05 PM

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new version :

Spoiler

Differant trees are now more rationnal, more logic : The racers tree is made of planes that prioritizes speed over anything. there is now a dedicated Nord single engine heavy fighter branch.

new sources : http://www.aviafrance.com/firmes.php

http://www.hydroretr...eronautique.pdf

http://www.hydroretr...degh/sncase.pdf

I placed the Bugatti 110p at tier 8 because its last version went at 785 km/h, I saw that eventually his engine were about to be upgraded, and that the 110p was to be fitted with 6*7.5mm machine guns and one cannon (20mm or 37mm). clearly, tier 8. becase it had two engines, I made it research other twin-engined light-fighters.



J311yfish #74 Posted 28 June 2014 - 02:54 PM

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Timeline


Edited by J311yfish, 19 May 2018 - 07:59 PM.

Tech tree projects:   JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  •  UNITED STATES    GERMANY  •  USSR  

Europe tech tree projects:  ITALY    FRANCE    SWEDEN    Finland (skins•  Poland  •  International  //  Retired projects:  China    Brazil

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Lofao_O #75 Posted 28 June 2014 - 04:14 PM

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For my sources, I won't explain you in details, but I can't get those. Instead, I read "Mach", and I try to find some clear websites, that shows their own sources.

To reply to your second point, my method is :

First, similar role in battle/gameplay, then the designer and manufacturer to place an aircraft in a particular branch.

Afterwards, to place the aircraft in his tier, I take into consideration his speed and armament, then it depends of devlopment history. As I said before, the tear the plane were designed isn't important to me, because in a certain period, some designs are very outdated, and others very andvanced for it's time. It's absolutly not a problem for me to place on the same tier the Mirage 1 and the Me 262 HG III, because they will be equivalent in-game.

 

To answer your question, I won't limit myself to 4 or 5 branches, becaus my goal is to make the most complete tree, with different branches. I don't expect devs to add all my tree with 93 planes at once, sure. But, with time, all trees should be completed, because if not, the whole "World of" concept is dead. It needs to extend itself. that's why I made a tree, with branches with a dedicated main characteristc, that ties planes between them. If I have to make it again from scratch, I will do it the same way as before.



Lofao_O #76 Posted 29 June 2014 - 10:50 AM

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By the way, what do you use to make the tree ? I mean, this :

 

CWezfTj.png

Because it would make my works on french tree (both WoT and WoWp) much clearer.



J311yfish #77 Posted 29 June 2014 - 12:04 PM

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I use several programs only because they are familiar to me (Word, Photoshop, Paint, Irfanview).  If I were starting from scratch I would probably look into the free apps for Google Chrome.


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Lofao_O #78 Posted 29 June 2014 - 02:02 PM

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ok, thanks.

Lofao_O #79 Posted 04 July 2014 - 08:13 AM

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Do you think it should be possible to give to the last Caudron fighter a better (more aerodynamic) frame of a racer or record-breaker, such as the C.461, C.561 or the C.712 ?

J311yfish #80 Posted 04 July 2014 - 04:47 PM

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I have not looked at Caudron aircraft in great detail so I don't know how to advise you.


Tech tree projects:   JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  •  UNITED STATES    GERMANY  •  USSR  

Europe tech tree projects:  ITALY    FRANCE    SWEDEN    Finland (skins•  Poland  •  International  //  Retired projects:  China    Brazil

Historical scenarios:  Spanish Civil War (skins•  Invasion of Poland  •  Winter War  •  Continuation War

Map proposals:   Panama Canal    Great Wall of China    Cliffs of Dover   //  Clan:  343 Kokutai  //  Tutorial:  How to ignore forum posts and signatures





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