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[J311yfish]

French tech tree project will be updated slowly over the coming weeks with information from these sources:

-- Combat Aircraft of World War II, by Elke C. Weal, John A. Weal and Richard Barker (Arms & Armour Press 1977)

-- Bombers 1939-1945, by Kenneth Munson (Blandford Press 1969)

-- War Planes of the Second World War: Fighters, Volume 1, by William Green (Hanover House 1960)

-- Jane's All the Worlds Aircraft, by C.G. Grey and Leonard Bridgman (issued 12/1938)

-- Biplane to Monoplane: Aircraft Development 1919-1939, by Philip Jarrett (Putnam 1997)

​-- Aircraft of the Second World War: The Development of the Warplane 1939-1945, by Philip Jarrett (Putnam 1997)

​-- Nieuport-Delage Ni-D 29 & Ni-D 62 family, (French Wings 2), by Jose Fernandez (2011 Stratus)

​-- Nieuport 1909-1950 (Docavia #38), by Leonard Rosenthal, Alain Marchand, Michel Borget, Michel Benichou

​-- The Talisman: The Autobiography of Marcel Dassault, translated by Patricia High Painton (1971)

 

[J311yfish]

TWIN-ENGINE HEAVY FIGHTERS and BOMBERS

 

Tier I

 

Breguet XIX B.2 (05/1922) -- bomber -- ~1,500 built

 

Hispano-Suiza 12Hb 500hp -- 230 km/h

1x7.5mm Darne (or 7.7mm Vickers) ©

1-2x7.5mm Darne (or 7.7mm Vickers) rear

1x rearward-firing machine-gun in ventral position

bombs: up to 440kg

crew: 2

Data: Weal, 88

 

-- Total production = ~1500 (Bre XIX including licensed-production). (Weal, 88)

-- "Successor to Bre XIV bomber of WWI vintage, Bre XIX first flown [05/1922]; subsequently produced in multiplicity of versions, including extensive license-production, Bre XIX exported Europe, South America, Middle, and Far East; last of FAF models withdrawn from first-line service latter half of 1930s, but fought on both sides during Spanish Civil War; number still operational with foreign AFs into early 1940s; equipped 2 Mire (squadrons) Greek AF during opening weeks Italian invasion; [10/1940-11/1940], employed in light bomber/ground-attack role against advancing Alpini." (Weal, 88)

 

 

 

Tier II

 

Hanriot H.110, H.115 (04/1933, 04/1934) -- heavy fighter prototype; 33mm cannon

 

placeholder

https://en.wikipedia...i/Hanriot_H.110

 

 

Potez 65 (__/1936) -- transport/light bomber -- ~80 built

II  2xHispano-Suiza 12Xbrs/Xgrs 720hp -- 300 km/h @ 2000m

provision for 10kg, 100kg, or 200kg bombs

crew: 2 + 14 troops

 

-- Total production = ~80. (Weal, 99)

-- "Development of earlier Potez 62 civil airliner, Potez 65 (originally intended for colonial use) first flew mid-1937; 25 examples on FAF strength outbreak WWII; served variety transport/ancillary roles; several captured by Germany; also supplied pre-war Rumanian AF; at least 1 civil 62-1 impressed FFAF military transport duties." (Weal, 99)

Potez 62-0, 62-01

-- "Initial prototype and production models; civil transports; various power plants; 62-1 modified wing (23)." (Weal, 99)

Potez 65-01

-- "Prototype; military troop transport version; Potez 62 development (1)." (Weal, 99)

Potez 65

-- "Production model; as prototype; alt trooper, ambulance (or light bomber) configurations (approx. 55)." (Weal, 99)

 

 

 

 

Potez 540 (__/193_)

 

-- "Like the Amiot 143M, the Potez 540/542 series were also 'multiplace de combat' aircraft, though of smaller size. After seeing considerable active service with the Republican forces in spain, they were obsolescent by 1939, and were replaced in the Reconnaissance and Bombardment Groupes before seeing any action. Several subsequently served as transports however." (Camelio & Shores, 9)

 

 

Bloch MB 200 (__/1933) -- medium bomber -- 333 built -- entered service 1934

2xGnome-Rhone 14 Kirs/Kjrs  900hp -- 240 km/h @ SL -- 283 km/h @ 4300m

dorsal: 1x7.5mm MAC 1934

ventral: 1x7.5mm MAC 1934

nose: 1x7.5mm MAC 1934

bombs: up to 1200kg

Data: Weal, 86

 

-- "First flown 1933, elderly MB 200 still equipped 7 bomber Groupes on outbreak of WWII, 4 in metropolitan France and 3 overseas; saw limited service opening weeks of war before relegation to training role, Winter 1939-1940; retained by Vichy AF in Syria until mid-1941; Czech license-built machines appropriated by Luftwaffe; served alongside captured French examples on crew-trainer and general duties; number allocated to German satellite AFs." (Weal, 86)

200-01

-- prototype; 2xGnome-Rhone 14Krsd 760hp. (Weal, 86)

200

-- production model; uprated engines; modified nose; wheel spats; Bloch-built (4); Potez-built (111); Hanriot-built (45); Loire-built (19); Breguet-built (19); Sud-Ouest built (10); also Czech license-built by Aero and Avia (124); Total production 333." (Weal, 86)

-- "... possibly 2-4 older MB.200s [served in Spanish Civil War on Republic side]." (Jarrett, 245)

-- "Entering service in 1934, the Bloch MB.200 twin-engined heavy bomber was soon the most numerous bombing type in the Armée de l'Air, with 195 in service by eraly 1935. This is a machine of 1e Escadrille, GB I/25." (Camelio & Shores, 8)

 

 

 

Bernard 82 (12/1933) -- long-range bomber -- 2 built

 

ph

https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Bernard_82

 

 

SAB AB-20 (01/1932) -- heavy night bomber -- ~2 built

 

ph

https://en.wikipedia.../wiki/SAB_AB-20

 

 

Lioré​-et-Olivier LeO 206 (__/1933) -- 4-engine heavy bomber -- 43 built -- entered service 1934

4xGnome-Rhone 7Kds 350hp -- 235 km/h @ 3050m

nose: 2x7.7mm

dorsal: 2x7.7mm

ventral gondolas: 1x7.7mm

bombs: up to 1000kg

crew: 4-5

Data: Weal, 94

 

-- Total production = 43 (all marks). (Weal, 94)

-- "4-engined (2 tractor / 2 pusher) development of earlier twin-engine LeO 20, LeO 206 first flew 1933; 25 of original 40 series production still in service outbreak WWII, equipping 2 Groupes based North Africa." (Weal, 94)

Leo 20

-- "... conventional biplane bomber with three-bay equal-span wings (a consistent LeO trait) melded to a deep, rather rectangular fuselage.  The nose housed a gunner's cockpit while a bombardier's station was placed directly below him.  2 radial engines sat in uncowled nacelles on the lower wings, to which were affixed large 'trousered' landing gear.  Despite its appearance ... stable, handled well, and functioned capably as a night bomber.  The French Armee de l'Air eventually acquired 320 of these cumbersome machines, and they formed the backbone of the French nighttime attack squadrons for a decade ... design attracted overseas interest, and 7 ... were exported to Romania." (Frederiksen, 199)

-- "By the advent of [WW2], nearly 100 LeO 20s were still empoloyed as target tugs or trainers in North Africa." (Frederiksen, 199)

-- [2xGnome-Rhone 9 Ady 420hp radials] -- 123 mph [198 km/h] max -- ceiling 18,900' [5,761m] -- range 621 miles [999km]. (Frederisken, 199)

-- 5x7.7mm -- 2,205 lbs [1000 kg] of bombs. (Frederiksen, 199)

-- Note: 1000kg of bombs for 1000km

-- "... LeO Bn 3, a night bomber with 2 'Jupiter' engines.  The fuselage makes use of square-section duralumin tube as longerons, the same tube being used as struts in some portions, while in others tubes of circular cross section are employed. The undercarriage is of the divided type, with each wheel in a 'trouser leg'." (Flight 07/05/1928 p.573)

LeO 203

-- "Prototype; [4xGnome-Rhone 7Kb/7Kds 300/350hp] (1)." (Weal, 94)

LeO 204

-- "Prototype; floatplane version of LeO 203 (1)." (Weal, 94)

LeO 205

-- "Prototype; [4xRenault 9 Ca 300/350hp]; not completed." (Weal, 94)

​LeO 206

-- "Production model; modified LeO 203; ventral gondola (37)." (Weal, 94)

-- "4-engine variant ... entered production in 1932 with a run of 40 machines." (Frederiksen, 199)

-- introduced 1934. (Camelio & Shores, 6)

LeO 207

-- "As LeO 206; [4xGnome-Rhone Titan-Major]" (3)." (Weal, 94)

LeO 208

-- "Modified LeO 206; 2 supercharged Gnome-Rhone 14Krsd 790hp; redesigned wing; retractable undercarriage (1)." (Weal, 94)

-- "Less successful [than LeO 206] ... featured narrow-chord lower wings, bigger engines, and retractable landing gear.  It offered better performance than the stock LeO 20 but was not produced." (Frederiksen, 199)

Leo 201

-- "Several machines, designated LeO 201s, were also outfitted for training of parachute forces in 1937." (Frederiksen, 199)

 

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 19 May 2018 - 12:16 AM.

[J311yfish]

Tier III

 

Amiot 143M (spring 1935) -- reconnaissance bomber -- 144 built

 

2xGnome-Rhone 14Kirs/Kjrs Mistal Major 870hp -- 310 km/h (192 mph) @ 4000m (13,000 ft)

4x7.5mm MAC 1934

bombs up to 1,764 lbs [800kg] internal; additional 1,764 lbs [800 kg] on external outer wing racks

Data: Frederiksen, 18 / Winchester, 12

 

 

-- total production 144 (all Marks). (Weal, 85)

-- "In 1928 the French government circulated new specifications for an all-metal, four-place bomber capable of operating day or night.  3 years later the Amiot Avions company fielded the first Model 140 prototype ... in 1934 a revised model, the 143, emerged.  This was a cantilevered high-wing monoplane featuring a fully-enclosed cockpit, 2 hand-powered gun turrets, and a lengthy greenhouse gondola on the underside of a narrow fuselage.  The wing chords were very broad and the air foil so thick that crew members could reach and service the engines in flight ... the type rested on fixed landing gear covered by streamlined spats 7' in length.  The first Amiot 143 was acquired in 1935, and a total of 138 were manufactured." (Frederiksen, 18)

​-- "... best remembered for the heroic [05/14/1940] attack on the Meuse River bridges near Sedan.  Flying in broad daylight against heavily defended positions, 13 of 14 aircraft committed were lost.  Following the French capitulation, many Amiot 143s made their way to Africa and internment while others served the new Vichy regime. All were basically scrapped by 1942." (Frederiksen, 18)

-- "first flown Spring 1935, obsolescent Amiot 143M still equipped six bomber Groupes on outbreak of WWII; carried out night-reconnaissance and leaflet raids over Germany [09/1939-05/1940]; Battle of France [05/1940-06/1940], night attacks on German lines of communications; suffered severe losses by day over German bridgeheads at Sedan [05/14/1940]; subsequently served with Vichy AF in transport role, North Africa 1941-1944." (Weal, 85)

-- "The last [143]s were grounded in North Africa in [02/1944]." (Winchester, 11)

140MX

-- initial prototypes; day- and night-reconnaissance bomber version; open cockpits -- 2xLorraine 18Gad 700hp. (Weal, 85)

​-- competed against prototypes by Bleriot, Breguet, and SPCA. (Winchester, 10)

142

-- 2xHispano-Suiza 12Yers. (Weal, 85)

​-- "[142] ... was built [used Hispano-Suiza 12Y supercharged]." (Winchester, 11-2)

143-01

-- prototype -- 2xGnome-Rhonse 14Kdrs/Kgrs 800hp. (Weal, 85)

143M

-- production model -- 2xGnome-Rhone 14Kirs/Kjrs 870hp supercharged Mistral-Major -- 310 km/h -- 3 or 5 .303 Lewis, or 4x7.5mm MAC 1934. (Weal, 85)

​-- "The first 30 aircraft had a 17.95m (59') fuselage which was shorter than that of subsequent aircraft.  From the 41st aircraft, Lewis 7.7mm machine-guns were replaced by MAC 1934 7.5mm guns." (Winchester, 11)

​-- "During 1936 one 143M was fitted with Gnome-Rhone 14N radials for high-temperature trials in Indo-China." (Winchester, 11)

​-- "The last 25 examples were built to 143 BN4 night-bomber and 143 B5 day-bomber standard.  Production of 140/143/143Ms amounted to 178 aircraft, and deliveries ... were complete by 1939." (Winchester, 11)

​-- climb rate 14:20 to 4000m (13,000 ft) at 8610kg (18,942 lb) weight. (Winchester, 12)

​-- ceiling 7900m (26,000 ft); normal range 1200km (745 miles). (Winchester, 12)

​-- Empty 6100kg (13,420 lb); maximum take-off 9700kg (21,385lb). (Winchester, 12)

--Amiot 143M gun positions (Flight Magazine)

144M

-- modified 143M -- redesigned wings; retractable undercarriage; prototype only. (Weal, 85)

145

-- re-engined 144M; project only. (Weal, 85)

146

-- re-engined 144M; project only. (Weal, 85)

147

-- modified 144M -- 2xHispano-Suiza 12Ydrs/frs; twin fins and rudders; test aircraft only. (Weal, 85)

150BE

-- 2xGnome-Rhone 14Krsd 740hp -- recon/torpedo-bomber version of 143M; interchanageable wheel/float undercarriage; redesigned wings. (Weal, 85)

​-- "One of the final derivatives of the 143 was the 150BE scout/torpedo-bomber aircraft for the Aéronavale. The sole example crashed in 1939." (Winchester, 11)

 

 

 

Bloch 131 RB4 (__/19__) -- reconnaissance bomber -- 143 built

2x Gnome-Rhone 14N 10/11 -- 302 km/h @ SL -- 349 km/h @ 3750m

nose: 1x7.5mm MAC 1934

dorsal turret:1x7.5mm MAC 1934

ventral gondola:1x7.5mm MAC 1934

bombs: ​up to 800kg

Data: Weal, 86-87

 

-- Total production = 143. (Weal, 87)

-- "Entered service Autumn 1938; Bloch 131s equipped 6 reconnaissance Groupse in metropolitan France (plus a 7th in North Africa) by [09/1939]; after heavy losses suffered in early attempts at daylight reconnaissance of Germany's western borders, Bloch 131s restricted to operating by night; by [05/1940] all French-based Groupes converted to Potez 63.11, the only MB 131s remaining in first-line service being those deployed overseas; limited number subsequently served Vichy AF as target-tugs." (Weal, 87)

131 RB4 No.1 and RB5 No.2

-- "4 and 5-seat prototypes respectively; reconnaissance-bomber version; 2xGnome-Rhone 14K Mistral-Major 900hp; subsequently re-engine with Gnome-Rhone 14N 10/11; 1x20mm (flex) or 1x7.5mm MAC 1934 in nose respectively; dorsal turret; No.2 with semi-retractable ventral gun position (2)." (Wealy, 87)

131 R4

-- "initial production model; reconnaissance version; 4 crew; Gnome-Rhone 14N 10/11s; ventral gondola with [1x7.5mm MAC 1934] (13)." (Weal, 87)

131 Ins

-- "dual control trainer version (5)." (Weal, 87)

131 RB4

-- "production model; reconnaissance-bomber version; modified R4; internal bomb-bay; revised equipment (119." (Weal, 87)

​133

-- "prototype; modified Bloch 131; redesigned tail (1)." (Weal, 87)

134

-- "prototype; 2xHispano-Suiza L4AA 1100hp." (Weal, 87)

 

 

 

Bloch MB 210 BN5 (__/19__) -- medium night bomber -- 283 built -- entered service 1937

2xGnome-Rhone 14N 10/11 -- 322 km/h @ 3500m

dorsal: 1x7.5mm MAC 1934 (retractable turret)

ventral: 1x7.5mm MAC 1934 (retractable turret)

nose: 1x7.5mm MAC 1934

bombs: up to 1600kg plus underwing flares

​crew: 5

Data: Weal, 86

 

-- Total production 283. (Weal, 86)

-- "Low-wing, retractable undercarriage development of marginally earlier MB 200, Bloch 210 was numerically most important FAF bomber on outbreak of WWII, equipping total of 12 Groupes; despite intensive 1939-1940 replacement program, still accounted for 1/3 of French medium bomber force (5 Groupes) at time of German offensive [05/10/1940]; participated Battle of France, [05/1940-06/1940], attacking German lines of communication in Rhineland and Belgium; 6 out of 37 examples later seized by Germany in Unoccupied France (late 1942) passed to Bulgarian AF; pre-war French deliveries to Rumania (24) and Spain (35), latter serving with Republican AF in Civil War." (Weal, 86)

-- "In 1937 the improved [D.510] entered service, as did the Bloch MB.210 bomber and the heavy 4-engined Farman F.221." (Camelio and Shores, 4)

210

-- "prototype; private venture; medium night bomber; 2xGnome-Rhone 14 Kdrs/grs 800hp; fixed undercarriage; subsequently fitted with twin floats as torpedo-bomber (1)." (Weal, 86)

210 BN4

-- "production model; 2xGnome-Rhone 14Kirs/jrs; modified tail and wings; repositioned dorsal turret; retractable ventral turret; retractable undercarriage; majority subsequently re-engine with Gnome-Rhone 14N 10/11's; Bloch-built." (Weal, 86)

210 BN5

-- "modified Bloch BN4; one additional crew; Bloch 210 BN4, BN5 production: Bloch-Potez-CAMS-, Renault-, Hanriot- and ANF-Mureaux-built (inc 24 Rumanian order) (281). (Weal, 86)

211 Verdun

-- "prototype; as Bloch 210 prototype; 2xHispano-Suiza 12Y 860hp; retractable undercarriage (1). (Weal, 86)

 

 

Douglas DB-7 -- attack bomber

-- 100 ordered from United States. (Camelio & Shores, 4)

 

Martin 167F -- attack bomber/reconnaissance

-- 115 ordered from United States. (Camelio & Shores, 4)

 

Caudron C.670 Typhon (03/1937) -- twin-engine light fighter-bomber

Production	Airframe	Engine	Speed	Armament	Bombs
2 prototypes	C.670	2x Renault 6Q-02/03  240hp	405 km/h @ 2000m 380 km/h @ ____m	2x20mm HS-9 1x7.5mm MAC 1934	2x100kg  or 2x250kg

 

Notes:

-- [all of these details are from unconfirmed internet sources but will have to do for now]

 

 

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 23 May 2018 - 05:15 PM.

[J311yfish]

Tier IV

 

Potez 631 C3 (04/1936+) -- heavy fighter / night fighter -- ~1,360 built

Production	Airframe	Engine	Speed	Armament	Bombs
84 (FF 02/1938)	630	2x Hispano-Suiza 14AB 10/11 580hp	448 km/h @ 4000m	2x20mm    1x7.5mm flex
207	631 C1	IV  2x Gnome-Rhone 14M 6/7 Mars 670hp	442 km/h @ 4500m	2x20mm*   1x7.5mm flex
	631 C2 night fighter
	631 C3 day fighter
	63.12 C3 (Potez 631-40)	2x Pratt & Whitney R-1830 Twin Wasp

*some w/ 1x20 + 1x7.5

Data: Green

 

Notes:

-- "At the time of the Franco-German armistice [06/1940] the Potez 63 was the most numerous French warplane.  When the Potez 63 assembly lines fell into German hands shortly before [06/25/1940], 1,115 machines of 5 various types had been produced, a total far exceeding that of any other French warplanes of the 1935-1940 period." (Danel, 3)

-- "By the outbreak of [WW2] the Potez 63 series was obsolescent and should not have been made to fight in the ranks of French first-line aircraft, but they nevertheless acquitted their onerous tasks valiantly and served their crews well." (Danel, 3)

-- "Originally designed as a multi-seat fighter (Potez 630 and 631), the basic airframe lent itself to development for a variety of roles in an attempt to replace the obsolete machines equipping the Armee de l'Air in 1937-1938." (Danel, 3)

​-- "The French Air Ministry issued a specification on [10/31/1934] calling for a twin-engine 2/3-seat multi-purpose 'multiplaces legers de defense'​; this supplemented an earlier specification of [07/13/1934] for single-engine fighters.  The '​multiplaces legers de defense' were required to fulfil 3 tasks:

​1) Fighter direction (as C3 3-seaters) from which the C.O. of a big fighter formation should be able to lead the maneuver of single-engine machines by radio;

​2) Day attack (as C2 2-seaters) also to be used for escorting friendly army co-operation or bomber aircraft;

3) Night fighting (as CN2 2-seaters)." (Danel, 4)

​-- "The specification called for a maximum speed of 450 km/h (280 mph) at 4000m (13,123 ft), this height to be attained in less than 15 minutes ... Armament was to comprise 2 fixed forward-firing 20mm cannon and a flexible machine-gun for rear defense.  To provide a maneuverability comparable to that of a single-seat fighter, the maximum weight was originally restricted to 3 tonnes (6,600 lb) although this was later raised to a 3.5 tonne (7,700 lb) limit.  The severity of the requirement meant that the power units had to be either ultra low-drag engines such as the [Renault or Salmson inverted-vee in-line 450hp] or ..." (Danel)

 

-- Total production = approx. 1,360 (all marks). (Weal, 99)

​-- "First flown Spring 1936, majority Potez 630s grounded/withdrawn front-line service by outbreak of WWII; Potez 631s equipped 8 Escadrilles FAF/FNAF during Battle of France; served both night and day-fighter roles; claimed total 29 confirmed victories, but suffered heavily at hands of friendly forces due to striking resemblance to Messerschmitt Bf 110; limited service FVAF southern France and North Africa; subsequently employed by FFAF (FFI) against German forces in Tunisia and on French Atlantic coast." (Weal, 99)

Potez 630 No.01

-- "Initial prototype; private venture; [2xHispano-Suiza 14 Hbs 580hp]; 3 crew (1)." (Weal, 99)

-- "... work on the Potez 630-01 began at Mé​aulte in [04/1935] ... [first flight 04/1936]. // ... proved to possess excellent flying qualities ... transferred to Villacoublay on [08/03/1936] ... On [08/31/1936] received its definitive, unbraced metal tail assembly and a new undercarriage with long-stroke shock absorbers, resuming test flights on [11/20/1936] and being accepted [by CEMA] for official trials end of [12/1936] ... armament trials [at Cazaux 06/1937]." (Green, 62)

-- "re-engined with [2xHispano-Suiza 14AB 02/03] and then [2xHispano-Suiza 14AB 10/11] ... With these the prototype attained a speed of 283 mph @ 20,000 ft, climbed to 13,120 ft in 5min 56sec, and reached a service ceiling of 32,800 ft." (Green, 62-63)

Potez 630 CN2 No.02 and C3 No.03

-- "Prototypes; 2-seat night-fighter/3-seat day-fighter versions respectively (2)." (Weal, 99)

Potez 630 C3 No.01/02

-- "Pre-production models; 3-seat day-fighter version (2)." (Weal, 99)

Potez 630 DC No.04

-- "Pre-production dual-control trainer version; original Yugoslav order (1)." (Weal, 99)

Potez 630 C3

-- "Production model; 3-seat fighter version; [2x20mm and 1x7.5mm]; alt [2xHispano-Suiza 14 AB 02/03 or Ab 10/11 650/700hp] (inc 1 each Switzerland/Yugoslavia) (82)." (Weal, 99)

-- "... withdrawn from operational use because of their unreliable Hispano-Suiza engines but proved very useful in the training role as did the few Potez 633 B2 light bombers.  They facilitated the conversion of assault units from their obsolete mounts to the new Breguet 691 and 693 aircraft." (Danel, 3)

-- "... production of 80 Potez 630s was initiated [05/1937], and simultaneously 140 Potez 631s ordered ..." (Green, 62-63)

-- "The first production Potez 630 fighter was flown in [02/1938]." (Green, 63)

Potez 631 CN2

-- "... unable to prove their ability in this particular role because of the inefficient methods of detecting and locating enemy aircraft at night; they just did not have the opponents to combat." (Danel, 3)

Potez 631 C3 No. 01, 02, 04 INS

-- "Prototypes; day-fighter version; modified Potez 630; [2xGnome-Rhone 14 Mars 570hp]; revised nacelles; No.02 re-engined [2xHispano-Suiza 14 AB 02/03s] (Potez 631 No.04 Ins. trainer to Rumania) (3)." (Weal, 99)

-- "Potez 631-01 ... flew for the first time during the second week of [03/1937] at Mé​aulte ... began official trials at [CEMA 11/1937]." (Green, 63)

Potez 631 C3

-- "Production model; [2xGnome-Rhone 14 M4/M5 or M/6/M7]; alt armament arrangements (202)." (Weal, 99)

-- "In the opening phase of the 'phoney war' period, Potez 631 C3 aircraft were operated as 'warning' machines in conjunction with the ​Groupes de Chasse​ flying single-engine fighters and contributed to several 'kills' in this way.  Later when operated as day fighters on their own account, they proved to be most disappointing due to their poor maximum speed, insufficient rate of climb and inadequate armament, although it must be recorded that their maneuverability was rated 'superlative'. (Danel, 3)

-- "A Potez 631 was test flown with a supplementary forward-firing armament of [6x7.5mm MAC] mounted under the wings, and on [02/08/1940] it was decided to modify all Potez 631s in a similar fashion." (Green, 64)

-- [2x20mm HS-9 + 6x7.5mm MAC 1934 + 2x7.5mm MAC 1934 flex]. -- 276.5 mph [445 km/h] @ 13,120 ft [4000m]. (Green, 64)

Potez 631 Ins. (634)

-- "Pre-production dual-control trainer version (10)." (Weal, 99)

Potez 632

-- "An experimental dive-bomber variant for the French Navy" (Green, 63)

Potez 633

-- "... in [05/1938] ... order for 125 examples of a light bomber version [Potez 633]." (Green, 63)

Potez 636

-- "The Swiss government purchased 2 Potez 630s in [02/1938] and the Czechoslovak Avia concern acquired a manufacturing license for a variant designated Potez 636." (Green, 63)

Potez 637 A3

-- "Often crossing enemy lines at high altitude on strategic reconnaissance missions, the Potez 637 A3's were frequently intercepted by patrolling Bf 109's but despite their shortcomings most of them managed to outmaneuver the German fighters and escape.  However they often returned to base carrying injured crew members." (Danel, 3)

 

 

-- Potez 630 created to meet the 10/1934 specifications for a three-seat fighter suitable for bomber interception, escort and single-seat fighter roles (Green, 482)

-- Potez 630 first flight 04/25/1936 (630); 03/1937 (631); 12/29/1938 (63.12); first production model flight 02/1938 (630) (Green, 482)

-- "Aerodynamically an exceptionally clean all-metal cantilever monoplane, the Potez 630 demonstrated outstanding capabilities ..." (Green, 482)

-- Potez 633 added a bomb bay; Potez 637 reconnaissance; Potez 639 AB2 attack bomber (Pelletier, 18)

 

 

Potez 633 B2 (__/19__) -- light bomber -- ~1,360 built

 

2xGnome-Rhone 14 M4/M5 or M6/M7 700hp -- 393 km/h @ SL -- 439 km/h @ 4200m

1x7.6mm MAC 1934 fixed forward (N)

1x7.5mm MAC 1934 flex rear

bombs: up to 400kg internal

Crew: 2

Data: Weal, 99

 

-- Total production = ~1,360 (all marks). (Weal, 99)

-- "Subject number export orders (majority of which sequestrated prior delivery), Potez 633 light bomber served FAF primarily in training role (only one recorded instance operational use, strafing German columns vicinity Arras, [05/22/1940]; in contrast, Potez 637 models heavily committed reconnaissance/observation duties from outbreak WWII until Armistice, suffering over 75% casualties of total 60 produced. Potez 633 Grec equipped 1 Greek AF Mira in action against Italian forces in Albania, Winter 1940; Potez 633 Roumain employed army co-operation/tactical reconnaissance roles in support Rumanian advance into Soviet Union, 1941-1942." (Weal, 99)

Potez 632 No.01

-- "Prototype; light bomber; modified Potez 630 CN2 No.02 (1 conversion)." (Weal, 99)

Potez 633 No.01/02

-- "Prototypes; light bomber version; modified Potez 631 C3; bomb bay; 2 crew; revised nose and armament (2)." (Weal, 99)

Potez 633 B2

-- "Production model; original Chinese (4) and Swiss (1) orders; former retained FAF, latter Hispano-Suiza power plants, Swiss armament (5)." (Weal, 99)

Potez 633 Grec

-- "As Potez 633 B2; Greek order; increased 1,322lb (600kg) bomb load (including 11 retained by FAF) (24)." (Weal, 99)

Potez 633 Roumain

-- "Rumanian order; 7.5mm MAC 1934s replaced by [3x7.7mm FN-Browning] (including 1 additional ventral rearward-firing); provision for bomb-bay camera (20)." (Weal, 99)

Potez 633 Franco-Roumain

-- "Additional Rumanian order; as 633 Roumain; (all retained by FAF) (20)." (Weal, 99)

Potez 633 C3

-- "3-seat fighter version; projected Czech (Avia) license-production." (Weal, 99)

Potez 637 No.01

-- "Prototype; reconnaissance version of Potez 633 B2; ventral observation gondola; 3 crew; additional ventral 7.5mm MAC 1934; external (underwing) 220 lb (100kg) bomb load only (1)." (Weal, 99)

Potez 637 A3

-- "Production model (60)." (Weal, 99)

Potez 639 No.01

-- "Prototype; low-level ground-attack version; 2 crew; fixed forward-firing 20mm Hispano-Suiza cannon plus max [500kg] bomb load (1)." (Weal, 99)

 

 

Potez 63.11 (__/19__) -- tactical reconnaissance/army co-operation -- ~1,360 built -- "France's Blenheim"

2xGnome-Rhone 14M 4/5 700hp -- 370 km/h @ SL -- 425 km/h @ 5000m

1x7.5mm MAC 1934 ventral fixed forward

1x7.5mm MAC 1934 ventral fixed rearward

1x7.5mm MAC 1934 flex rear

or

3x7.5mm MAC 1934 ventral fixed forward

3x7.5mm MAC 1934 ventral fixed rearward

2x7.5mm MAC 1934 flex rear

plus (optional) additional

4x7.5mm MAC 1934 underwing fairings

bombs: up to 280kg

crew: 3

Data: Weal, 99

 

-- Total production = ~1,360 (all marks). (Weal, 99)

-- "Numerically by far most important of entire series, Potez 63.11 entered service [11/1939], rapidly supplanted variety obsolescent observation types remaining on FAF inventory; equipped 40 Groupes by [05/10/1940]; lacking adequate fighter cover, Potez 63.11 sustained more casualties than any other single type, 225 being lost out of 700+ delivered; subsequent extensive use both FFAF/FVAF Middle East and Africa, participating Western Desert, Syrian, and NW Africa/Tunisian campaigns; considerable numbers acquired by Germany, 80+ captured 1940 post-Armistice, 120 completed during 1941, and 50+ seized upon occupation of Vichy France 1942; served Luftwaffe schools/training units; also supplied (ex-Vichy) Rumanian (and reportedly Hungarian) AFs for similar duties, 1942/1943 respectively." (Weal, 99)

Potez 63.11 A3 No.01/03

-- "Prototypes; tactical reconnaissance/army co-operation version of modified Potez 630; redesigned (fully glazed) nose and fuselage center section; No.01 rounded nose panels; Nos.02/03 optically flat paneling; [2xGnome-Rhone 14M 4/5 700hp] (3)." (Weal, 99)

Potez 63.11

-- "Production model; as nos.02/03; [2xGnome-Rhone 14M 4/5 or 14M 6/7]; alt two/three-blade propellers; progressive (additional) armament/equipment modifications (~925)." (Weal, 99)

-- "In the army co-operation role the Potez 63.11 machines of the ​Groupes Aeriens d'Observation​ (G.A.O.) were not, as commonly stated, easy prey for Bf 109's when flying at low altitude but they suffered heavily at the hands of German (and Allied) ground-fire.  Proof of their defensive capacity was given on [06/09/1940] by a crew of G.A.O. 543 flying an 8-gun Potez 63.11.  On being attacked by 7 Bf 109's the French airmen succeeded in shooting down 3 of their opponents before being shot down themselves after all their guns had run out of ammunition." (Danel, 3)

Potez 63.12 C3 No.01

-- "Experimental 3-seat fighter prototype; [2xPratt&Whitney SB4G Twin Wasp Juniors] (1 Potez 631 C3 conversion)." (Weal, 99)

Potez 63.13 Bp2 No.01

-- "Experimental 2-seat dive-bomber prototype; air brakes; [2x20mm ventral]; max 440lb (200kg) bomb load underwing (1 Potez 633 B2 conversion)." (Weal, 99)

Potez 63.16 T3 No.01

-- "Experimental 3-seat army co-operation crew trainer prototype; modified Potez 63.11; increased wing span/area (1 Potez 63.11 conversion)." (Weal, 99)

 

 

 

Hanriot H.220 (09/1937) -- twin-engine light fighter-bomber-reconnaissance

 

 

-- "During the late 1930s, the French aircraft industry was among the leading exponents of the twin-engine multi-purpose fighter, and was responsible for the development of several extremely promising warplanes in this category.  Unfortunately ... none of the designs prepared to meet the French Air Ministry's 1936 specification for a twin-engine fighter capable of undertaking the long-range escort, bomber interceptor, and attack roles, reached the assembly lines.  This was partly the result of changes in official requirements ... and partly the results of vascillation in placing quantity production orders.  One of the most promising twin-engine fighters to suffer in this way was the NC.600, produced by the Bourges plant of the Societe Nationale de Constructions Aeronautiques du Centre (SNCAC) which had absorbed the Hanriot company under the Nationalization Law." (Green, 52)

-- "The Hanriot NC.600 was evolved from the experiemental Hanriot H.220-1 twin-engine light fighter which, as the H-220 with [2xRenault 12Roi 450hp] and a single fin and rudder assembly, was first exhibited at the International Aeronautical Exhibition in Paris [1936] having been designed to meet the requirements of a 1934 specification.  Powered by Gnome-Rhone radials and sporting a new twin fin-and-rudder tail assembly, the prototype was flown as the H.220-1 for the first time on [09/28/1937], but was destroyed during [02/1938].  Externally, the H.220-1 differed little from the H.220-1 and in 1938 a batch of 6 machines was ordered for service evaluation under the new designation NC.600." (Green, 52)

-- front-quarter view

-- see Hanriot NC.600 below

 

 

 

 

Breguet 462 "Vultur" (__/19__) -- bomber

 

Note 1: Breguet 960 Vultur [same name] achieves same payload [1000kg] ~15 years later with mixed power (Nene+Mamba)

Note 2: SNCASO SE.4050 Vautour IIA (Vulture) = [same name]

 

 

Farman F.222.2 (__/19__) -- 4-engine heavy night bomber -- 53 built

4xGnome-Rhone 14N 11/15 950hp -- 360 km/h @ 4000m

nose: 1x7.5mm MAC 1934 Type T

dorsal turrets: 1x7.5mm MAC 1934 Type T

ventral 'dustbin': 1x7.5mm MAC 1934 Type T

​bombs: up to 4190kg

crew: 5

Data: Weal, 91

pictured: Farman F.221 (Jane's 1938)

 

​-- Total production = 53 (all marks). (Weal, 91)

​-- "The only 4-engined bombers in operational service upon outbreak WWII, 29 F 221/222s equipped 3 FAF Groupes -- 2 in Metropolitan France and 1 in West Africa; former employed leaflet-dropping, Winter 1939-1940), subsequently attacking targets in Western Germany, including BMW plant in Munich; only 1 bomber lost (accidentally) during entire Battle of France; FNAF examples performed Atlantic patrol duties, plus night bombing Sardina/NW Italy; after Armistice served FVAF Farman-equipped transport Groupe (with 224s/223.3s); based Morocco, number destroyed on ground by USN fighters during 'Torch' landings, [11/1942]; finally withdrawn FFAF service end 1944; F 224 civil transports, rejected by Air France, taken over by FAF 1939." (Weal, 91)

F.220.01

​-- "Initial prototype; [4x (tandem pair) Hispano-Suiza 12 Lbr 600hp] (1)." (Weal, 91)

-- F.220/221 (Flight Magazine 03/01/1934 p.201)

F.221.01

​-- "Prototype; [4x (tandem pair) Gnome-Rhone 14 Kbrs 800hp]; redesigned nose (1)." (Weal, 91)

F.221 BN5

​-- "Production model; as 221.01 (10)." (Weal, 91)

F.222 BN5 No.01

​-- "Prototype; converted F.221.01; retractable undercarriage; modified engine nacelles (1 conversion)." (Weal, 91)

F.221.1 BN5

-- "Production model (11)." (Weal, 91)

F.222.2 BN5

-- "Modified F.222.1; redesigned (lengthened) nose; outer wing dihedral (24)." (Weal, 91)

F.224

​-- "Civil/military transport version; development of F.222; [4xGnome-Rhone 14K 815hp] (6)." (Weal, 91)

 

 

 

Farman NC 223.3 BN5 (__/19__) -- heavy bomber -- 13+ built

 

4xHispano-Suiza 12Y 29 910hp -- 400 km/h @ 4000m

nose: 1x7.5mm MAC 1934 (flex)

dorsal turret: 1x20mm Hispano 404

ventral turret: 1x30mm Hispano 404

bombs: up to 4200kg

Data: Weal, 91

 

-- Total production = 13+. (Weal, 91)

-- "Entered service at height Battle of France; 1st 4 NC 223.3s participated night raids on Germany, late [05/1940-06/1940]; subsequently converted civil (Air France) and military (FVAF) transport duties; in contrast, NC 223.4 (evolved specifically as transatlantic mailplane) converted for military role; intended maritime reconnaissance, in fact served as night bomber, claiming distinction first Allied bomber to attack Berlin [06/06/1940-06/07/1940]; after Armistice restored civil use." (Weal, 91)

F.223.1 No.01

-- "Initial prototype; long-range mailplane; [4x(tandem pair) Hispano-Suiza 12 Xirsl] (1)." (Weal, 91)

NC 223 No.01

-- "Prototype; bomber version; [4x(tandem pair) Hispano-Suiza 14AA 1000hp]; modified equipment; subsequently re-engined Hispano 12Y (as NC 223.3 No.01) (1)." (Weal, 91)

NC 223.2

-- "Proposed bomber version; Gnome-Rhone 14Ns." (Weal, 91)

NC 223.3 BN5

-- "Initial production model; as re-engined NC 223.3 No.01 (8+)." (Weal, 91)

NC 223.4

-- "Long-range mailplane version of NC.223.3 BN5; [4x(tandem pair) Hispano-Suiza 12Y 39]; redesigned fuselage, modified tail surfaces; subsequently re-engine (Hispano-Suiza 12Y37 970hp) and converted maritime reconnaissance role; [1x7.5mm Darne]; [8x250kg (W)]." (Weal, 91)

 

 

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 13 May 2018 - 02:32 PM.

[J311yfish]

Tier V

 

Breguet 693 AB2 (03/1938+, 03/1940) -- Georges Ricard -- light attack bomber -- 386 built -- ​"France's Beaufighter"

Production	Airframe	Engine	Speed	Armament	Bombs
1 prototype ​(FF 03/1938)	690-01 3-seat fighter	2x Hispano-Suiza 14AB02/03 680hp		2x20mm HS-404 1x7.5mm MAC 1934 rear
(1)	691-01 2-seat attack bomber	2x Hispano-Suiza 14AB10/11 700hp		"revised armament; center-section bomb-bay; detail modifications" ​4x20mm (N)	up to 400kg
100 ordered,  78 delivered	691 AB2 2-seat attack bomber	2x Hispano-Suiza 14AB12/13 745hp
project	692 AB2	2x Gnome-Rhone 14N 980hp
(1) + 254 ​(FF 03/1940)	693-01 prototype   693 AB2 2-seat attack bomber	IV  2x Gnome-Rhone 14M6/7 Mars 700hp	490 km/h 475 km/h @ 2000m 426 km/h @ SL	1x20mm HS-404 (fixed forward) 2x7.5mm MAC 1934 (nose) 1x7.5mm MAC 1934 (flex rear) ​1x7.5mm MAC 1934 (ventral fixed oblique rear) ​late models: additional rearward-firing 1x7.5mm MAC1934 in each engine nacelle	up to 400kg
1 prototype	694-01 3-seat recon or 2-seat bomber	2x Gnome-Rhone 14M4/5 710hp		"reduced armament; center-section bomb-bay replaced by 3rd crew member"
(1) + 50 ​(FF 03/1940)	695 AB2 2-seat attack bomber	2x Pratt & Whitney SB4G Twin Wasp Jr 825hp
1 prototype	696 2-seat light bomber	IV  2x Gnome-Rhone 14M6/7 700hp		"production cancelled"
(1) (FF 10/1939)	697-01 prototype	V  2x Gnome-Rhone 14N 48/49 1070hp	570 km/h @ 4500m	"development for Bre 700 C2 project"
project	698 Bp2 2-seat dive-bomber
project	699 B2 bomber	2x Pratt & Whitney SB4G Twin Wasp Jr
project 2 ordered	700 C2 heavy destroyer	V  2x Gnome-Rhone 14N 48/49

Data: Weal, 88 / Pelletier / Hartmann ​/ ​Frederiksen, 56​ / Winchester, 47

 

-- design team led by Georges Ricard (Pelletier, 38)

-- Total production = 386. (Weal, 88)

-- "Operational debut [05/12/1940], attacking German columns advancing through Belgium, 10 out of 11 Bre 693s destroyed, crash-landed, or damaged beyond repair; nevertheless, continued low-level bombing attacks throughout remainder of campaign, losing almost 50% of the 106 delivered prior to Armistice; subsequently equipped 2 Groupes FVAF (including some Bre 695s); number of both types seized by Germany after occupation Vichy Zone, [11/1942]; majority then passed to Italy for operational training purposes." (Weal, 88)

-- specification issued for three-seat fighter 1934; construction began 1935; officially ordered 03/26/1937; 10 month delay due to H-S engines (meanwhile Potez 630 declared winner); prototype first flight 03/23/1938; order placed for 100 691 AB2's [2-seat attack variant] 06/14/1938; evaluation beginning 07/1938 concluded it to be superior to Potez 630 in many [unspecified] areas; 691 delivery began Fall 1939; [691 adapted to Gnome-Rhone engine and redesignated 693]; first 693 production flight 03/02/1940; redesignated to 695 after conversion to Pratt & Whitney engine due to engine shortage; production first flight 03/03/1940; 697 first flight 10/19/1939; 697 was to be the proof of concept for the 700 C2 heavy fighter (Pelletier, 38-42)

-- Hartmann claims that 691 mounted 4x20mm H-S 404's in the nose; 694 is export version produced under license by Sweden and Belgium; 698 dive bomber (source)

-- article on proposed armament Flight Magazine 01/1939

690

-- "... Model 690 of 1937 proved a radical departure from the company's angular, ugly biplanes.  It was an all-metal, twin-engine, high-wing monoplane with extremely smooth lines.  The puglike nose was rather short, not protruding beyond the propeller spinners, and the craft also mounted twin rudders.  However, because the [690] was not officially sanctioned, it enjoyed little priority on engines and could not be flown until 1938.  Flight results were excellent, and it demonstrated better performance than the Potez 63, the aircraft that won the earlier competition.  It was also faster than the [MS.406], the standard French fighter, and easily kept apace with the new [D.520].  The usually indifferent French government was impressed, and in 1939 it finally authorized production. // Breguet soon spawned an entire family of related machines." (Frederiksen, 56)

-- "... very clean-looking aircraft when it was rolled out in [04/1938]. Before it had even flown, a production order for 100 examples was given by the French air ministry." (Winchester, 46)

-- "In 1929 the company [Hispano-Suiza] bought a license for the Wright Whirlwind, and subsequently produced about 2,500 radials with various numbers of cylinders, the most important being the [Hispano-Suiza 14AB], an extremely compact 14-cylinder unit rated at 650hp in 1934 and up to 800hp in the 14AB-12/13 of late 1939. This family are often confused with the bigger 14AA of 1,100-1,350hp. Hispano also built small numbers of HS 9V and related 9-cylinder engines of greater diameter than the 14s, rated around 600hp, but none of the company's radials (all using Wright features) made much impression on the [Gnome-Rhone]-dominated market." (Gunston, 101)

691

-- "... among the best French aircraft of [WW2]. Fast and rugged, it was never available in sufficient numbers to have an impact." (Frederiksen, 56)

-- "... two-seat ground attack version, of which 78 were constructed." (Frederiksen, 56)

-- "... engaged in heavy fighting around Belgium and distinguished themselves in low-level attacks on German troops. But because fighter escorts were unavailable, half of these fine machines were lost in combat. After France's capitulation, many surviving [691s] were impressed into the Italian air service, but those confiscated by Germany had their engines removed and were scrapped." (Frederiksen, 56)

-- Empty: 6,636 lbs / Gross: 10,803 lbs; Ceiling 27,885 ft; range 840 miles. (Frederiksen, 56)

692

​-- "Breguet had also produced a new fighter design, the 692, to meet a 2-seat fighter specification issued at the end of 1936.  This was then developed as the 697 and the intended production version, [700] would have been armed with 2 cannon and 2-4 machine guns." (Winchester, 47)

693

-- "... featuring bigger engines; production totaled 224 planes." (Frederiksen, 56)

-- Winchester claims 7.5mm Darnes instead of MAC 1934s. (Winchester, 47)

-- "Pilots enjoyed flying the 693 which was remarkably capable in the air, especially at low level." (Winchester, 47)

695

-- "The final version ... again with differing engines, which amounted to 50 units.  However, acute part shortages meant that only half of these excellent airplanes were combat-ready when the Germans invaded [05/1940]." (Frederiksen, 56)

-- "... the last major production version and entered service in 1940 ... 50 were built and they ended up being operated by GBA 151 of Armee de l'Air Armistice (Vichy French Air Force) until late 1942." (Winchester, 46)

697

-- from 692. (Winchester, 47)

-- 697 first flight 10/19/1939; 697 was to be the proof of concept for the 700 C2 heavy fighter (Pelletier, 38-42)

700

​-- heavy fighter from 697. (Winchester, 47)

​-- "... there were planes to start production of the 700 alongside the 693 and 695 attack aircraft, but these were halted by the German invasion [05/1940]." (Winchester, 47)

 

 

 

Potez 670/671 (03/1939) -- 2-seat long-range escort fighter / bomber destroyer -- ~1 built

Production	Airframe	Engine	Speed	Armament	Bombs
1 (FF 03/1939)	670-01	IV  2x Gnome-Rhone 14M 700hp
(1) ​(FF 05/1940) 40*	671-01	V   2x Hispano-Suiza 14AB 12/13 800hp @ TO      745hp @ 2400 RPM @ 650m	501 km/h @ 6000m 484 km/h @ 5000m 443 km/h @ 3000m	2x20mm HS-404 2x7.5mm MAC 1934 and 1x20mm HS-404 rear or 2x7.5mm MAC 1934 rear

Data: Green, 65-66           *40 under construction at the time France collapsed -- confirm

 

Potez 670-01

-- "...configurationally similar to the Potez 630 and 631; first flight 03/30/39 (670) (Green, 482)

-- "... flew for the first time on [03/30/1939], competing with [Hanriot NC.600, Caudron C.900, LeO.50 (later redesignated SE.100)]." (Green, 65)

Potez 671-01

-- 670 modified as a 2-seat long-range escort fight and bomber destroyer [used Gnome-Rhone 14M]; redesignated 671 after upgrade to Hispano-Suiza 14AB 12/13 engines (Green, 482-483)

-- "After the completion of initial trials ... [Potez 670-01] re-engined with [2xHispano-Suiza 14AB 12/13 radials 800hp @ TO, 745hp @ 2400RPM @ 2130ft].  With these engines the prototype resumed test flights [05/1940] as the Potez 671-01." (Green, 66)

Potez 671

-- "... fuselage ... essentially similar to that of the earlier Potez 631, with a long glazed canopy enclosing the pilot ... seated in front of the wing leading edge, and the navigator/gunner.  The proposed armament [2x20mm HS-404 and 2x7.5mm MAC] and provision was made for either [1x20mm HS-404 or [2x7.5mm flex rear].  The 2-spar wing was of elliptical planform and possessed a slimmer profile than that of the Potez 631, and power was provided by [2xGnome-Rhone 14 Mars 700hp] in long-chord cowlings ... [fuel tanks in the wings] and provided a total capacity of 220 Imp. gal.  Unlike the main undercarriage members of the Potez 631, the wheels of which protruded from their wells when retracted, the undercarriage of the Potez 670 was totally enclosed when retracted, including the tail wheel." (Green, 65-66)

-- "... development of [Potez 670] which had been designed to meet the requirements of a 1936 specification calling for a 3-seat fighter with an endurance of 3 hours at 90% maximum speed." (Green, 65)

Potez 671 further variants

-- “Several production variants were proposed, but flight trials were incomplete at the time of the French collapse and the sole prototype was destroyed” (Green, 482)

​-- "Several versions of the fighter with more powerful engines were proposed by the [SNCAN] (which had absorbed the Potez concern under the Nationalization Law) but few flight trials had been conducted with the Potez 61-01 at the time of French collapse, and the sole prototype was destroyed during the German onslaught." (Green, 66)

 

 

 

Bloch 174 A3 (02/1938, 01/1939) -- reconnaissance/light bomber -- 59 built

 

2xGnome-Rhone 14N 48/49 1140hp -- 400 km/h @ SL -- 530 km/h @ 5200m

2x7.5mm MAC 1934 (W)

2x7.5mm MAC 1934 (rear flex)

3x7.5mm MAC 1934 M39 (rearward-firing) ventral

bombs: up to 500kg

crew: 3

Data: Weal, 87

 

-- total production = 59 (all marks). (Weal, 87)

170 AB2 AB3 No.01, B3 No.02

-- "Prototypes; assault bomber and high-speed bomber versions respectively; [2xGnome-Rhone 14N 6/7 950hp]; 1x20mm Hispano-Suiza and four/three 7.5mm MAC 1934 respectively; No.01 with ventral gondola; No.02 increased canopy area, enlarged vertical tail surfaces (2)." (Weal, 87)

-- 170-01 prototype first flight 02/15/1938; belly landing 03/171938 (Pelletier, 44)

-- 170-02 prototype changes:  longer canopy, ventral gondola deleted, revised vertical tail surfaces (Pelletier, 44)

-- "In 1936 Bloch initiated work on a modern, 2- or 3-seat reconnaissance bomber for the French Armee de l'Air ... first flew in [02/1938] as an all-metal, twin-engine, low-wing monoplane.  The craft was fitted with twin rudders ... retractable landing gear that buried itself in the engine nacelles ... elongated cupola under the fuselage to house a camera or an additional gun position, but this feature was deleted on subsequent models." (Frederiksen, 50)

171, 172, 173

-- "Projects only." (Weal, 87)

174 No.01

-- 174 first flight 01/05/1939  (Pelletier, 44)

-- "By [01/1939], the aircraft had evolved into the [MB.174] with major modifications ... lengthy greenhouse canopy set farther back along the fuselage than the prototypes ... extensively glazed nose and a small bomb bay.  Test flights revealed the craft to exhibit excellent performance at all altitudes, so in 1939 it entered production.  Persistent problems with overheating resulted in the adoption of smaller propeller spinners on most machines.  A small number of bomber versions, the MB.175, had also been constructed.  Around 80 machines were built in all." (Frederiksen, 50)

-- "Prototype; reconnaissance/light bomber version; modified Bloch 170 B3 No.02; [2xGnome-Rhone 14N 20/21 1030hp]; redesigned fuselage; fully-glazed nose; re-positioned cockpit (1)." (Weal, 87)

174 A3

-- "Pre-production and production models; [2xGnome-Rhone 14N 48/49]; 3 (pre-production) or 7 (production) MAC 1934 (56)." (Weal, 87)

-- "Developed from original Bloch 170 bomber design, Bloch 174 used solely in reconnaissance role during Battle of France; entered service latter half [03/1940], carried out long-range reconnaissance penetration German airspace; over half 49 operational models lost by capitulation, majority being destroyed on ground to prevent capture; equipped one Groupe FVAF based Tunisia; number subsequently employed in bomber role against German forces closing stages Tunisian campaign, Spring 1943." (Weal, 87)

-- "The elegant Bloch MB.174 was France's best reconnaissance aircraft of [WW2]. Fast enough to escape marauding Luftwaffe fighters ..." (Frederiksen, 50)

174Z

-- "[2xHispano-Suiza 12Z 1600hp]; one post-war conversion." (Weal, 87)

174T

-- "During the immediate postwar period, an additional 80 MB.174Ts were constructed as torpedo-bombers for the French navy.  These flew capably until being replaced in 1953 by more modern designs." (Frederiksen, 50)

 

 

 

Bloch 175 B3 (12/1939, 04/1940) -- light bomber/attack -- Henri Deplante -- ~21 built

Production	Airframe	Engine	Speed	Armament	Bombs
(FF 02/1938)	170-01 prototype	2x Gnome-Rhone 14N 6/7 950hp
	170-02 prototype
9 ordered*	170 AB2
6 (FF 01/1939)	174 A3 recon
1 (FF 04/1940)	175 B3	2x Gnome-Rhone 14N 48/49 1140hp	540 km/h @ 5200m 400 km/h @ SL	5x7.5mm MAC 1934       2x7.5mm MAC 1934 rear**	4x100kg / 3x200kg
1	176 A3 recon
1	177 A3 recon	2x Gnome-Rhone 14R 1600hp	"up to 700 km/h est."
Drawing board	178 high-alt	2x Hispano-Suiza 12Y 820hp
80 delivered 1946	SO.175T			(post-war torpedo bombing/ASW variant)

*order amended to include 9 total 174-177's instead

**Pelletier later claims that 3x7.5mm were aimed aft, confirm

Data: Weal, 87-88 ​/ Pelletier

 

Notes:

-- see also MB.174

-- design team led by Henri Deplante late 1936 to fill the gap between Breguet 690 (light attack bomber) and LeO 45 B4 (medium bomber). (Pelletier, 44)

-- 175-01 prototype first flight 12/1939; 175 made several major structural changes to accomodate larger bomb bay without losing 3rd crew member; 175 B3 first flight 04/1940 (Pelletier, 44)

 

-- "For the present the standard French torpedo aircraft is the modified MB.175, for which a neat dive-brake has been evolved. the brake flaps are on, and when operated, at right angles to, the trailing edge." (Flight Magazine 11/21/1946 p.557)

 

 

 

Hanriot NC.600 (05/1940) -- twin-engine long-range escort and attack fighter -- 6 under construction

V  2xGnome-Rhone M0/01 700hp -- 337 mph @ 16,400' [542 km/h @ 5000m]

2x20mm Hispano-Suiza HS-404

1x20mm Hispano-Suiza HS-404

2x7.5mm MAC firing aft

Data: Green, 53

Note: armament difference compared to Green, 112-113

 

-- "During the late 1930s, the French aircraft industry was among the leading exponents of the twin-engine multi-purpose fighter, and was responsible for the development of several extremely promising warplanes in this category.  Unfortunately ... none of the designs prepared to meet the French Air Ministry's 1936 specification for a twin-engine fighter capable of undertaking the long-range escort, bomber interceptor, and attack roles, reached the assembly lines.  This was partly the result of changes in official requirements ... and partly the results of vascillation in placing quantity production orders.  One of the most promising twin-engine fighters to suffer in this way was the NC.600, produced by the Bourges plant of the Societe Nationale de Constructions Aeronautiques du Centre (SNCAC) which had absorbed the Hanriot company under the Nationalization Law." (Green, 52)

-- "The Hanriot NC.600 was evolved from the experiemental Hanriot H.220-1 twin-engine light fighter which, as the H-220 with [2xRenault 12Roi 450hp] and a single fin and rudder assembly, was first exhibited at the International Aeronautical Exhibition in Paris [1936] having been designed to meet the requirements of a 1934 specification.  Powered by Gnome-Rhone radials and sporting a new twin fin-and-rudder tail assembly, the prototype was flown as the H.220-1 for the first time on [09/28/1937], but was destroyed during [02/1938].  Externally, the H.220-1 differed little from the H.220-1 and in 1938 a batch of 6 machines was ordered for service evaluation under the new designation NC.600." (Green, 52)

-- "The NC.600 was of relatively advanced conception and, in view of the limited power available from its twin air-cooled radial engines, attained a good performance.  Basically a mid-wing semi-cantilever monoplane, the wings being braced to the fuselage sides by short parallel sturs, with an oval monocoque fuselage, the NC.600 carried split trailing-edge flaps over its entire wing span, and the wing center section housed 4 fuel tanks with a total capacity of 176 Imp. gal., an additional fuel tank being housed in the fuselage between the 2 cockpits.  The whole aircraft was covered by smooth Védal stressed-skin, and the engines, which drove Ratier electric air-screws, were enclosed in low-drag cowlings." (Green, 52-53)

-- "The NC.600-01 (previously H.220-2) flew in 1939 at Bourges with the SNCAC chief test pilot, M.Haegler, at the controls.  It proved to possess an exceptional performance, although its low-speed handling characteristics left something to be desired.  The NC.600-02 was completed and about to commence flight testing when the unorthodox SE.100, designed to meet the requirements of the same specification, was selected for quantity production, and the SNCAC plant at Bourges was instructed to tool up for the manufacture of the Bré​guet 696 attack bomber.  Thus further work on the NC.600 was abandoned." (Green, 53)

 

-- "With the creation of Société Nationale de Constructions Aéronautiques du Centre [SNCAC] by the fusion of the Hanriot and Farman concerns under the Law for the Nationalization of Military Industries, major redesign was initiated of the Hanriot H.220 twin-engined 3-seat fighter … The first result of this redesign was the H.220-2, which was displayed statically as the NC.600 in [07/1939] at the Salon de l'Aéronautique held in Brussels. This aircraft was not, however the genuine NC.600, which differed from the H.220-2 in having, among other changes, a revised wing. Whereas the wing of the H.220 had a leading edge perpendicular to the fuselage, both spars featuring several degrees of forward sweep, that of the NC.600 had some 3-degrees of leading edge taper and perpendicular spars (span and area remaining unchanged), thus removing the last commonality with the original H.220. Although H.220-2 had not overcome the airflow turbulence generated by the wing center section under certain conditions, the [SNCAC] persisted in retaining this feature for the NC.600, which flew for the first time on [05/15/1940]. This aircraft, which introduced raised aft fuselage decking, redesigned endplate fins and rudders, and a raised tail assembly, was powered by [Gnome-Rhone 14M0/01 Mars 710hp]. Armament consisted of [2x20mm HS-404 + 2.7.5mm] and [1x20mm flex rear], this partially retracting into a slot in the fuselage decking.  The NC.600 was proposed as a 2-seat fighter, and although there is no record of an official order for this type, 6 were under construction when the Wehrmacht occupied Bourges." (Green, 112-113)

-- Max speed 542 km/h @ 5000m; 14min to 8000m; range 860km @ 486 km/h; empty 2948kg; loaded 4000kg; (more). (Green, 112-113)

 

 

 

Amiot 354 B4 (__/19__) -- medium bomber -- ~65 built

2xGnome-Rhone 14N 48/49 1060hp -- 410 km/h

dorsal: 1x20mm HS-404mm (flex) or 1x7.5mm Darne

ventral: 1x7.5mm MAC 1934 (flex)

nose: 1x7.5mm MAC 1934 (flex)

bombs: up to 1200kg

Data: Weal, 86

pictured: Amiot 351 (Jane's 1938)

 

-- total production ~65. (Weal, 86)

-- "Developed from Amiot 341 long-range civil mailplane (itself evolved from Amiot 370 world speed record-holder), Amiot 351/354 series was potentially among finest French AF bomber aircraft, but production difficulties restricted deliveries to little more than 50 of almost 900 on order; saw limited use, solely by night, during Battle of France, [05/1940-06/1940]; several subsequently converted as high-speed civil transports and operated by Vichy-controlled Air France; 4 examples later taken over by Germany for Luftwaffe use as special-duties transport." (Weal, 86)

341 -- long-range mail plane -- 2xGnome-Rhone 14N 0/1 920hp

340-01 -- prototype; 3-seat bomber version; Amiot 341 conversion

350 -- modified 340-01; 2xHispano-Suiza 12Y 28/29 -- project only

351-01 -- re-engine 340-01; 2xGnome-Rhone 14N 20/21 1020hp -- crew 4; modified engine cowling; twin fin and rudder; 1x7.5mm MAC 1934 in ventral hatch; 1 conversion

351 B4 -- initial production model; reduced wing span; enlarged vertical tail surfaces; enlarged cockpit; 2xGnome-Rhone 14N 38/39 950hp -- increased armament (approx. 17).

352 B4 -- 2xHispano-Suiza 12Y 50/51 1100hp -- not completed

353 B4 -- 2xRolls-Royce Merlin III 1030hp -- not completed -- [see note under Dewoitine D.520]

354 B4 -- 2xGnome-Rhone 14N 48/49 1070hp -- single fin and rudder (approx. 45).

355-01 -- 2xGnome-Rhone 14R 2/3 1200hp supercharged -- prototype

356-01 -- 2xRolls-Royce Merlin X 1130hp -- prototype -- re-engine 354 B4

357 B4 -- 2xHispano-Suiza 12Z turbo-supercharged -- high-altitude bomber version; pressurized cabin; not completed.

​Data: Weal, 86

​370

​-- "The Amiot 370 ... was a brilliantly designed twin-engine machine derived from the Amiot 340 bomber and successfully bested several speed records in 1938.  Only 1 was built, however, and the bomber from which it had been extrapolated was never properly tested." (Boyne, 239)

 

 

Lioré-et-Olivier LeO 451 B4 (__/19__) -- medium bomber -- 584 built

2xGnome-Rhone 14N 48/49 or 14N 38/39 1140hp -- 365 km/h @ SL -- 480 km/h @ 4800m -- 496 km/h

1x7.5mm MAC 1934 M39 fixed forward

1x20mm Hispano-Suiza HS 404 (plus, in later conversions, 2 additional 7.5mm MAC 1934) in retractable dorsal turret

1x7.5mm MAC 1934 in retractable ventral turret

Bombs: up to 2000kg / up to 1500kg

Crew: 4

Empty: 17,229 lbs; Gross: 25,133 lbs

Data: Weal, 95 / Frederiksen, 200

 

-- Total production = 584. (Weal, 95)

-- "LeO 451 entered service upon outbreak WWII (only 5 on first-line strength as of [09/03/1939], constituted only modern bomber available to FAF in any quantity; equipped 10 Groupes by [05/10/1940], operating both as low-level assault and strategic night bomber; attacked targets in Germany, northern Italy, and Sicily (latter from North Africa); had suffered some 130 losses by close Battle of France; initially operated 7 FVAF Groupes post-Armistice, participated raids on Gibraltar [09/1940] and subsequent campaigns Syria, North Africa; over 90 seized by Germany [11/1942] served primarily transport role (including special LeO 451T conversion, at least one of which captured and used as squadron hack by USAAF), but also limited number clandestine special-duties; some also passed to Italy for brief service 1 bomber Gruppo; post-war FAF/FNAF use various roles until latter half [1950s]." (Weal, 95)

-- "During the hectic summer of 1940 the LeO 451 proved to be vulnerable to attack from the low rear, the Messerschmitts simply avoiding the cannon.  The LeO had only a single 7.5mm machine-gun underneath." (Jarrett, 190)

-- "... the best French bomber of [WW2] and one of the few available in quantity ... fought well during the Battle of France and also flew capably in the hands of Vichy French pilots." (Frederiksen, 200)

 

LeO 451-01, 02

-- "Prototypes; [2xHispano-Suiza 14 AA 06/07 1080hp]; modified engine cowlings; redesigned tail surfaces; No.01 re-engine [2xGnome-Rhone 14N 20/21 1030hp] (redesignated LeO 451-01 (2)." (Weal, 95)

​-- "In 1937 the firm Liore et Olivier fielded its Model 451 prototype, which marked a breakthrough in French bomber design.  It was an all-metal, midwing, twin-engine aircraft with a glazed nose and twin rudders.  In contrast to the ungainly aircraft of the early 1930s, the LeO 451 was beautifully streamlined and performed as good as it looked." (Frederiksen, 200)

LeO 451 B4

-- "Initial production model; Gnome-Rhone 14N 48/49 or 38/39; progressive minor modifications and improvements in equipment and to structure; number test and trials installations on various individual machines; also subsequent conversions as follows (approx. 580)." (Weal, 95)

​-- "Operationally, however, the type [451] suffered from technical detriments that were never fully corrected. It had been designed for 1,600-hp engines at a time when no such power plants were available. Hence, employing 1,000-hp motors, LeO 451s remained significantly underpowered and never fulfilled their design potential.  Worse still ... bureaucratic lethargy [slowed mass production]. By [09/1939] only 5 LeO 451 has been delivered." (Frederiksen, 200)

​-- ~450 available by Battle of France 05/1940. (Frederiksen, 200)

​-- "... designed for medium-level bombing, but the speed of the German blitzkrieg necessitated their employment in low-level ground attacks ... served well in that capacity, but ... serious losses ensued. Yet ... remained in production after France's capitulation, with an additional 150 being acquired. These were actively flown against the Allies in North Africa before Vichy France was occupied by the Germans.  They confiscated about 94 LeO 451s; stripped of armament, these were flown as transports.  A handful survived into the postwar period as survey aircraft." (Frederiksen, 200)

LeO 451C

-- "12-passenger civil transport version; 12 LeO 451 conversions." (Weal, 95)

LeO 451E

-- "Flying test-bed; 3 LeO 451C conversions." (Weal, 95)

LeO 451G

-- "As LeO 451 B4; 7.92mm Browning machine-guns; max [870kg] internal bomb load; Greek order -- not fulfilled (12)." (Weal, 95)

LeO 451M

-- "Redesignation of LeO 456." (Weal, 95)

LeO 451T

-- "17-troop or fuel military transport version; 15+ LeO 451 conversions." (Weal, 95)

LeO 452

-- ​"As LeO 45; [2xHispano-Suiza 14AA 12/13 1150hp]; project only." (Weal, 95)

LeO 453

-- "Unarmed communications/ASR version; [2xPratt&Whitney R-1830-67 1200hp]; 40 LeO 451 post-war conversions." (Weal, 95)

LeO 454-01

-- "Prototype; [2xBristol Hercules II 1150hp]; not completed." (Weal, 95)

LeO 455-01

-- "Prototype; [2xGnome-Rhone 14R 0/1 1375hp]; subsequently fitted with [2xGnome-Rhone 14R 4/5 1320hp 'power eggs']; modified nacelles; enlarged vertical tail surfaces (redesignated LeO 451.01GS) (1)." (Weal, 95)

LeO 455

-- "Production model; as LeO 451.01GS; 1/3 LeO 451 late/post-war conversions." (Weal, 95)

LeO 455Ph

-- "Photographic-reconnaissance version of LeO 455; 5 LeO 451 post-war conversions." (Weal, 95)

LeO 456

-- "Navalized (land-based) version of LeO 451; flotation gear; 7.5mm MAC 1934 machine-guns replaced by 7.5mm Darne machine-guns; subsequently redesignated LeO 451M (1)." (Weal, 95)

 

https://www.flightgl...940 - 1455.html

 

 

 

SNCAC NC.150 (05/1939)

 

placeholder

https://en.wikipedia...ki/SNCAC_NC.150

 

-- "In 1938 a French equivalent of the German HZ-anlage had been the use of a fuselage-mounted HS 12Xirs of 690hp driving a 3-stage compressor to supercharge the two HS 12Y-32/33 wing engines of the NC 150 (flown for the first time on [05/11/1939]) which were rated at 955hp at 9 km (29,9530 ft)." (Gunston, 101)

 

 

 

SNCAO CAO.600 (03/1940) -- twin-engine torpedo bomber -- 1 built

 

placeholder

https://en.wikipedia...i/SNCAO_CAO.600

 

 

Dewoitine D.770 (06/1939) -- 1 built

 

placeholder

https://en.wikipedia...Dewoitine_D.770

 

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 28 October 2018 - 02:59 AM.

[J311yfish]

Tier VI

 

Breguet Br-480 (__/19__) -- 2-engine bomber -- 

 

-- 2xGnome-Rhone 14L 1225hp

-- "Gnome-Rhone 14L abandoned"

​​-- becomes Br-482 4-engine bomber below

 

 

 

 

Bloch 162 (06/1940) -- 4-engine long-range heavy bomber -- 1 built

 

4xGnome-Rhone 14N-48/49 1100hp -- 550 km/h @ 5500m

nose: 1x7.5mm MAC 1934 (flex)

ventral: 1x7.5mm MAC 1934 (flex)

ventral: 1x20mm Hispano-Suiza

dorsal: 1x20mm Hispano-Suiza (flex)

bombs: up to 3600kg

crew: 5

Data: Weal, 87

 

160

-- "Initial long-range civil transport version; 4xHispano-Suiza 12Xirs 720hp." (Weal, 87)

​161

-- "Initial long-range civil transport version; 4xGnome-Rhone 14N 900hp." (Weal, 87)

162 Raid

-- "Mailplane/long-range communications version of Bloch 160; redesigned fuselage; 4xGnome-Rhone 14N." (Weal, 87)

162-01

-- "Prototype; long-range heavy bomber version; modified Bloch 162 Raid; 5 crew; [2x7.5mm MAC 1934s] and [2x20mm]." (Weal, 87)

-- "First flown [06/1940]; sole Bloch 162-01 prototype fell into German hands following Armistice later same month; after extensive flight testing, aircraft transferred to Germany for clandestine long-range special duties, 1943-1944." (Wealy, 87)

162 B5

-- "Projected production model." (Weal, 87)

 

 

SNCAO 700 (06/1940) -- 4-engine bomber -- 1 built

 

 

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 30 April 2018 - 03:30 PM.

[J311yfish]

Tier VII

 

Breguet Br-482 (__/1947) -- 4-engine bomber

VII  4x Hispano-Suiza 12Z

 

-- 2 prototypes of the Breguet Br-482 B4 were constructed (482-01 and 482-02); 1 was evacuated prior to German invasion, the other remained hidden in the factory at Biarritz-Anglet.  The 2nd prototype was rehabilitated for flight tests after liberation 1944. Completed for flight testing 07/1947. (Cuny & Leyvastre, 38)

-- estimated maximum speed at altitude 650-700 km/h with 4x1500-1600hp engines. (Cuny & Leyvastre, 38)

​-- up to 2 tons of bombs and/or torpedos

 

 

Follow-on development

--> Br 500 Colmar -- flew after the war (Cuny & Leyvastre, 38)

--> Br 1011 Capricorne -- destroyed 1944 by allied bombing (Cuny & Leyvastre, 38)

​--> Br 890-894 -- wing inspired by Br 482-484 (Cuny & Leyvastre, 38)

 

 

 

Nord 1500 Noreclair (08/1947) -- twin-engine dive-bomber/ASW

 

2xSNECMA 14R

 

-- "... French Navy's Nord 1500, a 23,750lb twin-engine deck-landing multi-purpose machine with SNECMA 14R radials. Basically of Boston layout, the Noreclair, as it is known, has folding wings (gulled on the fixed inner sections) a bomb/torpedo bay divided longitudinally, a novel arrester-hook stowage … and an interesting enclosure over the observer's cockpit. Eventually a SAMM tail turret with [2x20mm] will be fitted." (Flight Magazine 11/21/1946 p.557)

 

 

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 17 May 2018 - 10:38 AM.

[J311yfish]

Tier VIII

 

SNCAC NC.1071 (10/1948)

Production	Airframe	Engine	Speed	Armament	Bombs
2	NC.1071	VIII  2x Hispano-Suiza Nene 101 2350kg	745 km/h @ 6850m	2x20mm	800kg*
	NC.1072

*800kg total, comprised of 227kg U.S.-made bombs and 127mm HVAR British-made rockets (source)

**Red text indicates that the information is from a secondary internet source and may not be 100% reliable.

 

Notes:

-- NC.1071 first flight October 12, 1948 (source); a crash in June 1949 set the program back 18 months; testing resumed December 1950; May 1951 achieved 745 km/h; airframe stability considered to be problematic beyond 600 km/h (source) [sidenote: this Russian site claiming Docavia as a reference offers a completely different chronology]

-- NC.1071 described by Flight Magazine as "strange multipurpose" aircraft ... "forerunner of all-weather fighter of similar layout" (Flight 05/1949)

-- NC.1072 model present at air show in Paris, according to Flight Magazine 05/1949; claims thinner wing, "560-600 mph expected" [901-965 km/h, which doesn't happen].

-- [relevant sidenote: De Havilland Sea Venom (and its French incarnation Aquilon) adopted for shipboard role 1952 after competition between SNCAC NC.1080, Arsenal VG-90, Nord 2200;  NC.1080 first flight July 29, 1949; ]

-- in flight

 

Development timeline

23 May 1947 -- NC.1070 first flight

12 Oct 1948 -- NC.1071 first flight

__ Jun 1949 -- NC.1071 crash sets program back 18 months

29 July 1949 -- NC.1080 prototype first flight (competition with Arsenal VG-90, Nord 2200 for single-seat carrier-based jet fighter)

27 Sep 1949 -- Arsenal VG-90 prototype first flight

16 Dec 1949 -- Nord 2200 prototype first flight

10 Apr 1950 -- NC.1080 prototype crash; project terminated

25 May 1950 -- Arsenal VG-90 prototype 1 damaged; project continues

24 Jun 1950 -- Nord 2200 damaged; flight testing continued until 1954

__ Dec 1950 -- NC.1071 testing resumed

__ May 1951 -- NC.1071 achieves 745 km/h in level flight

03 Aug 1951 -- Breguet Vultur prototype first flight (for carrier-based attack role)

21 Feb 1952 -- Arsenal VG-90 prototype 2 damaged; project discontinued despite prototype 3 under construction

__ ___ 1952 -- De Havilland Sea Venom (Aquilon) adopted for carrier-based jet fighter role

06 Oct 1956 -- Breguet Alize first flight (carrier-based attack role, no guns)

 

^ all of this to say that the NC.1071 was a stop-gap development and that other options were being pursued even while it continued to undergo flight testing.

 

Nord 1500 Noreclair (__/19__) -- twin-engine dive-bomber/ASW

 

2xGnome-Rhone 14R

2xGnome-Rhone 14R + Nene (project; Flight Magazine 10/09/1947 p.406)

 

-- "There is a design, moreover, for a Nene-assisted variant of the Nord 1500 Noreclair deck-landing torpedo-bomber-reconnaissance aircraft and, as a counterpart to the Martin Mercator, the Arsenal has a mock-up for a large machine with [2x24H] piston engines and [2xNenes]. A type which may fly this year is the Marcel-Dassault 450 -- a 560 mph design with a Nene in the fuselage. // In the bomber category are the NC.270 and SO.4000 bombers of between 26 and 27 metric tons, each with [2xNene]. Speeds of over 600mph and ceilings of 39,000ft are forecast." (Flight Magazine 04/15/1948 p.415)

 

close-up drawing of observers position

https://www.flightgl...earch=nord 1500

"later version to have a Nene in the fuselage"

https://www.flightgl...earch=nord 1500

"2xGnome-Rhone  14R 25 + Nene = 480mph"

https://www.flightgl...earch=nord 1500

 

 

SNCASO SO.4000 (03/1951) -- 2-engine bomber

 

2xRolls-Royce Nene 102 2268kg (5000 lb) -- 850 km/h (528 mph) est. @ 9000m (29,520')

2x20mm barbette on each wingtip

internal bomb load up to 3000kg (6614lb)

Data: Gunston, 68-69

 

-- "Discounting the S.E. Grognard series, which were ground-attack fighters, the first French jet bomber prototype was the S.O.4000, produced by the SNCA du Sud-Ouest (south-west).  It was a strange design, almost the only conventional thing about it being the use of [2xHispano-Suiza], the license-built British turbojet which at the time (1947-1951) powered almost every French jet aircraft. // These engines were installed close side-by-side at the tail of the extremely large, but beautifully streamlined fuselage.  The only marring feature was the rather primitive shape of the inlets, on each side at the forward fuselage ... The tailplanes, with elevators, were attached beside each jetpipe, and a bizarre feature was that the fin continued down to the bottom of the fuselage, separating the jet nozzles.  Another odd feature was that the fuel capacity was a mere 1430 gal, in long shallow tanks in the top of the center fuselage." (Gunston, 68)

-- "In the center fuselage there was provision for a large bomb bay under the center section of the wing.  The wing had a constant thickness of 10% and a sweep at the quarter-chord line of 31-degrees. Very large slotted flaps covered most of the trailing edge.  Outboard of the flaps were small ailerons, used for roll control in conjunction with powered spoilers, which were then a novel idea.  All flight controls were manual, with nearly full-span spring tabs, but it was intended to fit powered surfaces eventually." (Gunston, 68)

-- "One of the many odd features ... was the landing gear.  The nose unit was noteworthy mainly for its great height.  It was intended to make it steerable, and it retracted backwards into a long compartment under the pressure cabin.  The main gear comprised 2 individual units in tandem on each side, hinged only just outboard of the wing root.  All 4 units retracted outwards into the wings, the tandem wheels being covered by very large rectangular doors extending over 65% of the wing chord.  These enormous cut-outs were in the most highly stressed part of the whole aircraft!  All units of the landing gear had very long levered-suspension arms allowing vertical leg travel of 1m (39.4").  Like the flaps, landing-gear operation was hydraulic.  It was large because of these main gears that no fuel was carried in the wings." (Gunston, 68-69)

-- "Because of the bomber's odd features it was preceded by 2 research aircraft [S.O.M1 glider and M2 powered aircraft] ... M2 flew first on [04/13/1949].  Powered by a single [Rolls-Royce Derwent 3500 lb thrust], it was the first French aircraft to exceed 1000 k/mh (621 mph) in level flight ... // By the time the SO.4000 was built ... it could be seen to be not only obsolete but to have useless capabilities.  It lacked power, was far too heavy, had extremely poor ratio of empty to gross weight, and could not fly any useful mission.  Chief test pilot Jacques Guignard flew it on [03/16/1951], just to show that it could fly.  It never flew again.  The planned defensive armament of [2x20mm] on [each wingtip] were never installed." (Gunston, 69)

-- "The SO.4000 bomber prototype was rolled out on [03/05/1950]. Registered F-WBBL, it was generally similar in configuration to the scale models." (Jackson, 83)

 

 

 

 

 

SNCAC NC.270 (planned 09/1949) -- M.Robin -- 1 incomplete

 

-- "Of all the early French designs, with the exception of the Ouragan, the most promising was undoubtedly the NC.270, which -- had it reached fruition -- would have been the contemporary of the English Electric Canberra, the B-45 Tornado and the Ilyushin IL-28.  The NC.270 was designed by a government department, 'Guerre et Transport' -- roughly the equivalent of Britain's Ministry of Supply -- under the direction of M.Robin, and the aircraft that graduatlly emerged was very elegant indeed, with a circular-section fuselage, slightly swept wings and tail surfaces with the tailplane mounted on top of the rudder, and the 2 Nene engine nacelles mounted flush with the fuselage sides at the wing roots.  The aircraft was to carry 2 crew, a pilot and a navigator, the latter also being responsible for the operation of a TV-controlled tail turret of German origin and armed with [4x15mm] cannon.  A 5-ton bomb load was to be carried." (Jackson, 82)

-- "The flight characteristics of the NC.270, the prototype of which slowly took shape in the factory of the SNCAC at Billancourt, were to be tested with the help of 2 flying scale models [NC.271-01 glider] and NC.271-02 ... powered by a liquid-fuel rocket motor.  The NC.271-01, first revealed publicly at the 1946 Salon, was of mixed wood-and-metal construction and was a quarter-scale model of the prototype bomber.  It was a single-seater, and in an emergency the entire nose section could be jettisoned with the pilot inside [tested under a Handley Page Halifax]." (Jackson, 82)

-- "The NC.271-01 glider ... took to the air for the first time in [11/1948], mounted on the back of an SE-161 Languedoc (F-BCU), and made 11 more captive flights in the next 3 months.  Its first free flight was made on [01/28/1949], with Claude Dellys at the controls; it lasted for 7 minutes, the little aircraft reaching a maximum gliding speed of 140 mph." (Jackson, 82)

-- "[NC.271-02 prototype built at Billancourt] ... rocket motor, a Walter HWK 109-509A, was taken from [Me 163 Komet], and was to have boosted the NC.271-02 to an estimated maximum speed of 560 mph, slightly more than would have been achieved by the full-size bomber.  The latter, meanwhile, was nearing complete; the fuselage was intact, with wings and engines mounted and tail fin in place, while the outer wing sections and tailplane were also complete and awaiting final assembly.  The first flight was scheduled for [09/1949], after the rocket-powered model had completed its test program. // The NC.271-02, complete with rocket motor, was taken to Orleans-Bricy [05/1949], where the plan was to mount it on the back of a Heinkel He 274 ... and launch it at an altitude of 33,000 ft.  While preparations for this flight were underway, however, SNCAC went into liquidation, with the results that both the NC.271 models were scrapped.  So was the full-size NC.270, which was then 85% complete." (Jackson, 82-83)

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 18 July 2019 - 12:11 PM.

[J311yfish]

Tier IX and X

 

SNCASO SO.4050 Vautour IIA (Vulture) (10/1952) -- ~153 built

Production	Airframe	Engine	Speed	Armament	Bombs/Rockets
1	SO.M1 glider
1	SO.M2 half-scale model	1x Rolls-Royce Derwent
1	SO.4000 Vautour I	2x Hispano-Suiza (R-R) Nene 102		2x20mm (W)	up to 1814 kg (4000 lbs)****
1 + 70	Vautour IIN	2x SNECMA Atar 101E-3 3500kgp	1104 km/h @ low altitude 950 km/h @ 12190m	4x30mm DEFA 552	2x Matra 104 retractable launchers (116x68mm SNEB rockets each)**
1 + 30	Vautour IIA
1 + 40	Vautour IIB	2x Sapphire ​[see Gloster P.228/Javelin]
6	preproduction	various***

*2xSNECMA Atar 101B 2400kgp, later upgraded to Atar 101C, then finally Atar 101E-3 3500kgp for production

** Green claims 104x68mm SNEB rockets

***various; other engines used include 2x Rolls-Royce Avon RA 28, Atar 101E-5 3700kgp

****an article in Flight Magazine 11/1946 mentions that the SO.4000 [still early in development] was expected to carry "10,000 lbs of bombs for 1850 miles"

 

Notes:

-- SNCASO developed the 2-seat twin-engine Vautour I in response to an air force requirement for a medium bomber; SO.M1 and SO.M2 were scaled-down test aircraft for what would become the SO.4000; SO.4000 first and only flight 03/16/1951, considered to be underpowered and unstable.  Air force requirement revised in 1951, so Vautour I development was reworked to become Vautour II, "a very successful bomber and night-fighter" (Winchester, 150-151)

-- "Conceived as a multi-role aircraft to meet the requirements of a 1951 Armee de l'Air specification, the SO.4050 Vautour II (Vulture II) was designed by a team led by Jean-Charles Parot and was intended from the outset for production in three versions: N (Nuit) two-seat night and all-weather fighter; A (Attaque) single-seat close support aircraft; B (Bombardement) two-seat bomber; first prototype flight (N-configuration) 10/16/1952; entered service 1957; withdrawn from service beginning late 1973 [as conversion to Mirage F1.C was complete (Gunston, 216)]; [some converted to electronic-warfare role by early 1970's (Gunston, 217)]" (Green, 548)

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 18 July 2019 - 04:11 PM.

[J311yfish]

Update

 

 

The tree above so far represents a 'best-estimate' based on:

-- Premium aircraft in-game (and their associated modules)

-- Reference aircraft in-game (and their associated modules and/or concepts)

-- First flight dates, engine progression, designers, development notes (all of which have been verified by one-or-more published sources, all listed in original post)

 

It is still a 'work-in-progress' but it is possible at this point to derive some obvious conclusions:

 

1) A primary line of French fighters from I-X is possible

-- it would probably be the in-line fighters composed primarily of Dewoitine and Morane-Saulnier, featuring motor cannons and wing-mounted machine guns

-- it would probably utilize the high-production Ouragan, Mystere II, Mystere IV sequence to achieve VIII-X

 

2) Secondary lines (mini-branches) are possible

-- the Bloch radial fighters would be durable, with wing-mounted cannons, and good dive speed

-- the lightweight fighters of Mureaux, Potez, Arsenal are another opportunity and might resemble the Caudron C.714 characteristics (maneuverability, dive speed)

-- (Note that Caudron C.714/760/770 lightweight fighter progression, while good, was effectively cannibalized by offering C.714 premium; thus Arsenal is the avenue to progression)

-- an outgrowth of the Dewoitine line, by way of the dorsal-intake SE.580 developed in secret, is the Grognard attack jet; SE.580 could be fighter, or attack, depending on interpretation but it certainly seems like the most obvious bridge to Grognard in any case.

-- the heavy fighter sequence is limited; the Potez 63 series has been described as 'the French Blenheim' and the Breguet 693 has been described as 'the French Beaufighter'

-- (Note that Arsenal VB.10 and SNCASE SE.100 heavy fighters offered as premiums indicates Potez and Breguet for progression; also,Arsenal VB.10 was one of the few options available for Tier VII, and NC.1070 for Tier VIII, indicating narrower options for progression)

 

3) A line of French medium bombers from II-X could be possible

-- more detail saturation is necessary to verify, but so far looks promising!

Edited by J311yfish, 07 May 2018 - 11:21 PM.

[jack_wdw]

Bloch should go over in Dassault, since it is the same manufacturer.

[J311yfish]

jack_wdw, on 08 May 2018 - 01:23 AM, said:

Bloch should go over in Dassault, since it is the same manufacturer.

 

It is true that Marcel Bloch and Marcel Dassault are the same person (industrialist), but beyond that there is nothing (as far as I can tell) that can reasonably bind the Bloch 150-157 series to Dassault Ouragan-Mystere IV.

 

I have looked at it from these angles:

-- Nationalization -- Bloch was absorbed by SNCASO 1937, and Dassault was a new company 1947+.  A look at factory locations, many of which were simply reused, confirms this.

-- Subcontracting -- aircraft and aircraft parts built and/or assembled by different companies at different factories.  Ouragan forward fuselage was actually made at old Dewoitine factory, for example.

-- Designer -- the Bloch 150-157 series of aircraft, and Dassault Ouragan-Mystere IV, were not designed by Marcel Bloch/Dassault (he was not a designer).  The apex of Bloch fighters, the 157 by Lucien Servanty (designer), was a modification of 152, itself a modification of 150/151 (Maurice Roussel).  Servanty went on to develop the SNCASO SO.6000 Triton (first French jet to fly, but crude and unarmed), as well as the SNCASO SO.6020 Espadon.

-- practicality -- a singular line of Bloch to Dassault aircraft would not be possible in any case based on aircraft and modules identified; it would have to pull from other potential lines, at approximately tier VI and VIII.

 

Overlooking all of the above, the strongest case for Bloch-to-Dassault continuity, in my opinion, would be to say that Bloch 157 and Dassault Ouragan fulfill the same or similar role, or that they have similar designs or flight characteristics.  I don't think there is any evidence to support that.  Do you agree?

[Trophy_Wench]

Jelly, is the Ouragan really a tier 8? Based on where a lot of the early jets stack up, I'd have put it at tier 9 and have had just the Mystere II as the 10. But then again, would there be any suitable alternatives to drop into tier 8 were that to happen?

[J311yfish]

Trophy_Wench, on 08 May 2018 - 12:29 PM, said:

Jelly, is the Ouragan really a tier 8? Based on where a lot of the early jets stack up, I'd have put it at tier 9 and have had just the Mystere II as the 10. But then again, would there be any suitable alternatives to drop into tier 8 were that to happen?

 

The short answer is that there are very few options available without resorting to high fiction (fictional engine development and/or fictional armament).  I have accounted for them here.

 

The longer answer is that resorting to high fiction may not even be necessary.  Yes, the Rolls-Royce Nene has been characterized as a Tier IX engine in the Supermarine Attacker; yet this does not account for the tier designation of Airframe or Armament.  It could be that, though the engine is tier IX, the airframe and armament might both be VIII, and therefore enough to warrant keeping the aircraft at VIII.  There are examples in-game of aircraft having engine modules a tier above or below the tier of the overall aircraft.  Also, the prototype and pre-production Ouragans appear to be weak on armament.  The first armed prototype flew with 4x15mm; and later versions flew with 2x20mm, 4x20mm, and 2x30mm.

 

There is more that could be said.  If Ouragan is truly considered to be IX, then SE.580 could be a good choice at VIII from the earlier Dewoitine fighters.

Edited by J311yfish, 09 May 2018 - 02:33 AM.

[jack_wdw]

J311yfish, on 08 May 2018 - 09:26 AM, said:

 

It is true that Marcel Bloch and Marcel Dassault are the same person (industrialist), but beyond that there is nothing (as far as I can tell) that can reasonably bind the Bloch 150-157 series to Dassault Ouragan-Mystere IV.

 

I have looked at it from these angles:

-- Nationalization -- Bloch was absorbed by SNCASO 1937, and Dassault was a new company 1947+.  A look at factory locations, many of which were simply reused, confirms this.

-- Subcontracting -- aircraft and aircraft parts built and/or assembled by different companies at different factories.  Ouragan forward fuselage was actually made at old Dewoitine factory, for example.

-- Designer -- the Bloch 150-157 series of aircraft, and Dassault Ouragan-Mystere IV, were not designed by Marcel Bloch/Dassault (he was not a designer).  The apex of Bloch fighters, the 157 by Lucien Servanty (designer), was a modification of 152, itself a modification of 150/151 (Maurice Roussel).  Servanty went on to develop the SNCASO SO.6000 Triton (first French jet to fly, but crude and unarmed), as well as the SNCASO SO.6020 Espadon.

-- practicality -- a singular line of Bloch to Dassault aircraft would not be possible in any case based on aircraft and modules identified; it would have to pull from other potential lines, at approximately tier VI and VIII.

 

Overlooking all of the above, the strongest case for Bloch-to-Dassault continuity, in my opinion, would be to say that Bloch 157 and Dassault Ouragan fulfill the same or similar role, or that they have similar designs or flight characteristics.  I don't think there is any evidence to support that.  Do you agree?

I do appreciate all the effort you put in these lines, but regarding the french line i have a different opinion.
 

I still think the Bloch line should go over in the Dassault line.

Not only because Marcel Bloch and Marcel dassault are one and the same person, but i would make it a multirole-line instead of a light fighter line. ((cfr us thunderbolt line)
Tier IX and X Dassault Ouragan and Mystere are also fighter bombers.

There might be discussion about the Bloch fighter-line, which were rather intended as interceptors than fighter-bombers, but P-47 Thunderbolts also only materialized later in the war as a fighter bomber.
P-35, P-43, XP-44 and early thunderbolts were meant as interceptors just the same as the Bloch 150 family.

I would do it like this:

Light Fighters:

 

Tier I: Nieuport 62

Tier II: Morane-Saulnier M.S.225

Tier III: Dewoitine D.500/501/503/510
Tier IV Morane-Saulnier MS.406

Tier V  Dewoitine D520/521/522
Tier VI Dewoitine D530/D551/D552
Tier VII SNCASE SE520Z (same engine as D552, improved armament)

Tier VIII SNCASE SE.580
Tier IX Nord 2200
Tier X  Sud-Ouest S.O.6026

 

 

Multirole Fighters:

Starting from Tier IV
 

Tier IV Bloch Mb150/151

Tier V  Bloch MB.152/155

Tier VI Bloch  MB.700/720 (but maybe a better fit would be to uptier the Bloch Mb.155, because the MB.700 is a actually new airframe with a lighter engine but better performance and same armament compared to the Tier V Mb.152)
Tier VII Bloch MB.156/157

Tier VIII SNCASO SO.8000 Narval
Tier IX: Dassault Ouragan
Tier X: Dassault Mystere
 

Edited by jack_wdw, 09 May 2018 - 01:47 PM.

[J311yfish]

I appreciate the dialogue.  That is how these things get better.  I have some questions and thoughts for you, if I may:

 

jack_wdw, on 09 May 2018 - 05:04 AM, said:

Light Fighters:

 

Tier I: Nieuport 62

Tier II: Morane-Saulnier M.S.225

Tier III: Dewoitine D.500/501/503/510
Tier IV Morane-Saulnier MS.406
Tier V  Dewoitine D520/521/522
Tier VI Dewoitine D530/D551/D552
Tier VII SNCASE SE520Z (same engine as D552, improved armament)
Tier VIII SNCASE SE.580
Tier IX Nord 2200
Tier X  Sud-Ouest S.O.6026

 

II -- MS.225 -- a parasol fighter for which the French and Polish were known; yet deviates from the rest of the line by way of a radial engine.  Are you okay with that?  If so, why MS.225 over Dewoitine D.371-376, which is also a radial?

III -- D.500 -- moved to tier 3 as the basis for D.510, okay.  Do you consider the P-26 at tier II to be a good reference, or a bad reference?  One source compares their features directly, and considers the D.500 to be the slightly more ambitious forward-looking design; but does that warrant tier III?  Also, the first engine for D.500 is the same as that for SPAD.510, in-game designated tier II.

VIII -- SE.580 --  would you still use this as a bridge to Grognard (twin-engine with dorsal air intake)? Why or why not?

IX -- Nord 2200 -- How do you determine Nord 2200 over SNCAC NC.1080 and Arsenal VG-90?  All 3 prototypes were evaluated and rejected for carrier strike role; all 3 used the Nene; all 3 to have similar armament to meet the spec.

X -- SO.6026 -- If Espadon is to be tier X only, okay; how do you choose 6026 over, say, 6021?  The 6025 exceeded mach 1 in level flight (not that I'm complaining!  There needs to be an incentive to reach and play tier X after all).

 

jack_wdw, on 09 May 2018 - 05:04 AM, said:

Multirole Fighters:

Tier IV Bloch Mb150/151

Tier V  Bloch MB.152/155

Tier VI Bloch  MB.700/720 (but maybe a better fit would be to uptier the Bloch Mb.155, because the MB.700 is a actually new airframe with a lighter engine but better performance and same armament compared to the Tier V Mb.152)
Tier VII Bloch MB.156/157
Tier VIII SNCASO SO.8000 Narval
Tier IX: Dassault Ouragan
Tier X: Dassault Mystere
 

 

P-47esque durability with wing-mounted cannons, okay.  Add bombs, okay.

 

V -- MB.155 -- if up-tiered to VI, would rely on Airframe durability, streamlining, and Armament options to achieve it ("the first French production fighter to feature belt-fed cannon and an armored windshield [40mm Triplex glass].")

VI -- MB.700 -- a home-grown fighter built from non-strategic materials with a tier IV/V engine (as indicated by HS 129B); resembles FFVS J 22 for Sweden, Commonwealth Boomerang in-game tier V, and VL Myrsky for Finland.  All 4 are comparable, so perhaps MB.700 should be tier V.  Also comparable to Roussel 30 (designed by brother of MB.150 designer).

VIII -- SO.8000 Narval -- I know there are not many choices available, but what is the basis for going from Narval (6x20mm) to Ouragan (4x15mm, 2x20mm, 4x20mm, and 2x30mm)?  Would it not make more sense to go to Espadon (6x20mm)?  Or, on the basis of twin-boom architecture and carrier-borne strike role, would use of the Mistral (French development of Vampire) and Aquilon (French development of Sea Venom) be permissible?

 

Now, not to leap forward into the realm of fiction, but here are some other things to consider:

 

-- Grumman F6F Hellcat and De Havilland Vampire are both conspicuously absent from the game, and both happened to serve with France. Is that a coincidence, or are they being deliberately withheld for use there?  Hellcat would be tier VI approx., and Vampire tier VIII approx.  That would certainly be convenient given the challenges identified here for France.

-- Would a tree for France be based on the current/known historical timeline, or based on an alternate timeline (as for Germany and Japan), looking forward from prior to the fall of France? If alternate timeline, then a very wide creative license would be granted to developers to create something new and interesting, while still being uniquely "French".  Ramjets are just one example.  More could be said about this but I'll stop there.

Edited by J311yfish, 09 May 2018 - 10:58 PM.

[J311yfish]

Bugatti

-- "The well-known automobile designer, Bugatti, is reported to have completed the design, in France, of an almost flat double-eight aero-engine of 1,500hp.  The cylinders are of cast light alloy with steel liners and the engine has overhead camshafts and a centrifugal blower. Reduction gearing, permitting the driving of 1 or 2 airscrews, is provided. Frontal area is said to be very low and the engine is suitable for mounting in wing or fuselage. The output of 1,500 hp is obtained at 3,000 rpm and a dry weight of 1 lb per hp is claimed." (Flight 01/04/1940 p.8)

-- "Before the fall of France, it was known that the French had a number of new engines in preparation, including a liquid-cooled 24-cylinder multi-bank (6 banks of 4 cylinders). There was also the opposed 16-cylinder liquid-cooled Bugatti engine reputedly suitable for wing-submerged installations.  Recently, the design of the Hispano-Suiza V-12 engine has been brought up to date and the power stepped up to 1,500 hp; a further increased of power to 2,000 hp is anticipated for this engine, which has a displacement of 36.07 liters. The H-24-cylinder liquid-cooled Hispano of 72.14 liters originally rated at 2,400 hp may be increased to nearly 4,000 hp within the next few years." (Flight 05/07/1942 p.450)

-- [Note: this would presumably be for the Bugatti 110P fighter project]

 

 

---

 

 

Hispano-Suiza 12B -- post-war continuation of Hispano-Suiza 12Z for up to 2200hp -- this is a way to bring Dewoitine to Tier VIII

https://www.flightgl...949 - 1397.html

https://www.flightgl...949 - 1398.html

https://www.flightgl...949 - 0802.html (2nd paragraph on left)

-- "The war interrupted design of the 12B, but this ran in 1945 and emerged in several forms in 1947 with ratings up to 2,200hp.  Still using the 150 x 170 mm cylinders, the 12B was mechanically a completely different and much stronger engine, but it was too late." (Gunston, 101)

 

 

---

 

 

SNECMA 14U -- post-war continuation of Gnome-Rhone 14R -- this is a way to bring Bloch to Tier VIII

https://www.flightgl...949 - 0802.html (4th paragraph from bottom, on left)

-- "The 14K was progressively developed until 1953, via the extremely important 14N family of 900-1,100 hp of 1935-1950, the 1,500-1,600hp 14R of 1939-1950 and the post war 14U of 2,200 hp. In 1945 the company [Gnome-Rhone] vanished into the nationalized group SNECMA, and the final member of the family was the 1,600 hp SNECMA R.210.  Small numbers were made of the L-series, with stroke increased to 185 mm, the 14L being a 1,400 hp unit and the 18L a giant 56-liter engine of 1,900 hp, both dropped in 1939.  Far more important was the attractive 14M Mars series, with smaller cylinders 122 x116 mm, capacity 18.98 liters.  The Mars was only 0.95mm in diameter at first, later versions being about 1 m, and this helped it gain many applications in 1936-1943 at ratings from 600 to 710 hp at 3,100 rpm [used in the Hs 129B, Bloch MB.700, Roussel 30].  SNECMA later developed these engines into the 14X with output up to 820hp at 3,400 rpm, an exceptionally high speed for a large radial." (Gunston, 92)

 

 

---

 

 

Hispano-Suiza jet engines

-- "In 1946 Hispano-Suiza obtained a license for the Rolls-Royce Nene turbojet, and large numbers were made of the Mks 101, 102, 104 and 105, as well as prototypes of the afterburning Mk 102B.  Hispano itself developed the [Hispano-Suiza] R.300 with increased airflow and hollow air-cooled turbine stators, rated at 2,700kg.  This was dropped in 1951 in favor of a license for the [Rolls-Royce] Tay of 2,850kg thrust; the afterburning 250R of 3,850kg thrust remained a prototype. The final derived engine was the Verdon 350, first flown in a Mystere in [08/1953], in which further increases in mass flow, rpm and temperature increased thrust to 3,500kg at 11,100 rpm, weight being 935 kg.  The company participated in the [Rolls-Royce] Avon installations in the Caravelle airliner and Dassault fighters, and in 1954 designed a small axial turbojet, the [Hispano-Suiza] R.800, for light fighters.  Rated at 1,800kg at 12,200 rpm, this had a 7-stage compressor, diameter of 692mm and weight of 303kg.  It was dropped in early 1956.  Hispano-Suiza then diversified, later engine work including production, for SEP of the SEPR 844 rocket for the Mirage III, and license-assembly and participation in manufacture of the [Rolls-Royce] Tyne." (Gunston, 101-102)

 

 

Edited by J311yfish, 26 May 2018 - 11:46 AM.

[jack_wdw]

My excuses it was something i put out really quickly at work yesterday.

I have revised a couple of planes regarding your comments.

 

                                                                                                             

TIER	Light Fighters	Multirole Fighters	Premium Light Fighters
1	Nieuport 62	N/A
2	Dewoitine D.27	Loire 41/43/45	Morane-Saulnier MS.225, Spad S510
3	Dewoitine D.500/501/503/510	Loire 46
4	Morane Saulnier MS.405/406	Bloch MB.150/151	Caudron Cr.714
5	Dewoitine D.520/521/522	Bloch MB.152	Bloch Mb.700, Arsenal VG.33,  Potez.230, Arsenal-Delanne AD10, Morane-Saulnier MS.410, Bugatti 110P
6	Dewoitine D.530/551/552	Bloch MB.155	Arsenal VG39
7	SNCASE SE.520Z	Bloch MB.156/157
8	SNCASE SE.580	Bloch MB.158/159
9	SNCASE SE.535 Mistral (license built vampire)	Dassault Ouragan
10	SNCASE SE.5000 Baroudeur	Dassault Mystere

Tier revisions:

Tier II: I replaced light fighter tier II MS.225 with the Dewoitine D.27. It is a parasol fighter powered by an inline Hispano-Suiza 12Mc engine delivering the same HP as the GR9K radial as fitted in the MS.225, all other specs are more or less the same. The Hispano-Suiza 12Mc engine is an engine upgrade of the first tier Nieuport 62.
I've also marked the start of the multirole fighter in this tier with the Loire 41/43/45. They mark the switch to a radial line powered by Gnome-Rhone engines and gradually with heavier firepower. The Loire 41 starts with the Hispano Suiza 12Mc, as used in the Nieuport 62, then they shift to radial engines.
MS.225 can be a premium.
I don't agree with the p-26 as a good reference for tier II. I consider the p-26 actually more a tier III plane since it was considered marginally faster than the I-16(e) which is a tier III plane ingame.
Tier III: I've added the Loire 46 parasol fighter to the multirole line. It has an early version of the GR.14 engine which makes it a better stepping stone to the bloch MB.15x series.
Tier IV: no changes
Tier V: removed MB.155 from this tier
Tier VI: uptiered MB.155 (faster, better armed and longer range than MB.152) instead of MB.700. MB.700 will be a Tier V premium (comparable to British Venom)
Tier VII: MB.156/157 (MB.155 with 1600HP GR14R engine)
Tier VIII: Replaced Narval with MB.158/159 (largely fictional aircraft - see ref - based on MB.155 with a GR14U engine evolving to 4-row Snecma 28T1 engine with two counter rotating props(GR15D), 4*20MM cannons, bubble canopy  comparable to the F2G or XP-72) 
Tier IX: replace Nord 2200 with SNCASE Mistral (license built vampire)
Tier X: replace SO.6023 with SNCASE Baroudeur

I choose the SE.580 to continue the Dewoitine line in tier VIII. Dewoitine was merged into SNCASE and the SE.580 was designed mainly by Dewoitine engineers. At the time it could have been the pinnacle of french piston engined fighter design, but jet technology rendered it obsolete before it could really materialize. I think it would be a good fit compared with I-250 and La-9 which basically also have two engines.
I've chosen to continue this tree with SNCASE planes.

I chose to remove the Narval at Tier VIII for the multiroles and replace it with the largely fictional Bloch MB..158/159.
My first opinion to put the Narval there was based on the merging of Bloch into SNCASO, but you're right, it doesn't make sense.
The Narval was also engineered by former LeO engineers, instead of Bloch engineers.
The Narval maybe has a place as a tier VII multirole premium? (compared to the japanese J4M?)



 

References:
https://clausuchroni...g/bloch-mb-159/

http://www.stardestr... la Air OOB.htm







 

Edited by jack_wdw, 10 May 2018 - 01:37 PM.

[J311yfish]

A close look at P-26 (tier 2) and Breda Ba.27M (tier 3) may be a good way to verify D.500-510.

 

D.27 has a potential chronology issue, if first flight dates are a prime metric.  Exceptions have been made (in-game) according to (presumably) when the design was initiated (Ex: IL-40P), but if it can be safeguarded then it probably should be.

 

Still very curious about the potential for Vampire showing up in France.  Note that, with the Nene being a tier IX engine, and the French having upgraded to it from Goblin, that Goblin engine could be VIII, and Vampire VIII.  Meteor (tier 7) is also a good indicator.

Edited by J311yfish, 11 May 2018 - 06:46 PM.

[jack_wdw]

J311yfish, on 11 May 2018 - 01:17 PM, said:

A close look at P-26 (tier 2) and Breda Ba.27M (tier 3) may be a good way to verify D.500-510.

 

D.27 has a potential chronology issue, if first flight dates are a prime metric.  Exceptions have been made (in-game) according to (presumably) when the design was initiated, but if it can be safeguarded then it probably should be.

Still very curious about the potential for Vampire showing up in France.  Note that, with the Nene being a tier IX engine, and the French having upgraded to it from Goblin, that Goblin engine could be VIII, and Vampire VIII (also in-game Meteor VII).

 

 

Yeah i only added the D.27 there, because of the parasol wing and the inline engine, otherwise an airplane with radial would feature there.
D.535 (Variant of D.27) would provide the continuity to the next line with the Hispano-Suiza 12Xbrs engine, which is the stock engine for the D.500.
In my opinion D.500 and D.510 should be in the same tier, there was so little time and so little difference between these planes (200HP engine upgrade) that you can't really call it a new design. I would suggest the d.501 as an airframe upgrade to host the cannon upgrade, and offer the Hispano-Suiza 12Xcrs(D.501) and 12Ycrs(D.510) as possible engine upgrades.

I think the french vampire (with Nene: 61% more thrust than Goblin) should be tier IX. The British one with the Goblin could/should indeed be a Tier VIII. The Meteor F.1 is in the right place at tier VII , because it is powered by R&R Wellands, which really have a weak thrust.

Edited by jack_wdw, 11 May 2018 - 02:03 PM.