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Weapon Range Chart, ammo description

weapon gun range maximum effective ammo type list HEI API

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Mercsn #21 Posted 12 May 2014 - 10:30 AM

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View PostRock18, on 23 April 2014 - 09:51 PM, said:

 

I wouldn't call myself a ballistics expert either, but I have some relevant training and experience.

 

E=mc2 was Einstein's equation to describe mass-energy equivalence which wouldn't really apply here unless we were talking nuclear.  You probably meant KE=(mv2)/2 to describe kinetic energy. ;)

 

It also seems you might be confusing incendiary and tracer ammunition types; they're not the same thing.  (tl;dr incendiary ammo carries a flammable charge meant to ignite only upon impact, tracer burns in flight to create a visible signature to aid gunnery and can also potentially cause fires but only as a secondary effect.)  Incendiary projectiles have less mass and density (and less ability to overcome air resistance) but the actual aerodynamic properties are fairly similar at these ranges.  Tracer is another matter -- since it burns and actually loses mass during flight in non-uniform ways it can have unpredictable aerodynamic properties especially at range.

 

As far as I'm aware the game doesn't include any ballistic, penetration, or range penalties for tracer.  Which is probably a good thing...

 

 

I'm assuming it's just for balance reasons too.  I can't think of any reason that HE/HEXI would lose damage potential at close range; if anything the opposite should be true.  In the real world there's of course the potential that you could be fragging yourself if firing inside the min safe distance but I don't think that's modeled in the game and I wouldn't want to see it either.

 

Overall I think the ballistics modeling in the game is fairly reasonable considering balance and gameplay, especially with a hitpoint-based damaged model.

 

 

There's also a very nice ammo rundown at http://rocketbrainsurgeon.com/ammunition-guide-stuff-goes-bang/

 

Thanks for clearing that up and linking RBS guide, I'll go ahead and link that in the OP so it's easy to find.  Yes I was confusing tracer ballistics with incendiary.

 

As far as penetration, the game does have aircraft armor and ammo penetration values...we just don't know what they are and whether it's static values or whether ammo has a penetration die roll to hit and to penetrate.   As you point out, the tracer is just visual effect and not actually modeled into the ammo belt loadout.


Edited by Mercsn, 12 May 2014 - 10:32 AM.

All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

Trifler #22 Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:41 AM

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Good guide, but I have a concern with the wording. Instead of saying, "Higher damage on greater distances," it would be more accurate to say "Lower damage dropoff." The damage doesn't actually increase as the distance to the target increases. It just doesn't decrease as much as with other ammo types.

Mercsn #23 Posted 04 July 2014 - 04:03 PM

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View PostTrifler, on 23 June 2014 - 07:41 PM, said:

Good guide, but I have a concern with the wording. Instead of saying, "Higher damage on greater distances," it would be more accurate to say "Lower damage dropoff." The damage doesn't actually increase as the distance to the target increases. It just doesn't decrease as much as with other ammo types.

 

Hi! Thanks for the read and the potential edit advice.

 

That wording was taken directly from what WG stated in the patch notes that accompanied the addition of the ammo belts.  And, actually, I believe from the way the ammo works, the wording is probably correct.  Remember, this isn't real life or real world physics we're dealing with.  It's arcady and a-historical.  So, they could code a certain ammo type to do a greater damage at longer range and less damage at a shorter range. 

 

If you think about other aspects of how the game is designed, you'll probably realize this is the dev's intent.  They have three types of ammo.  Standard and AP which does a consistent damage at all ranges.  Certain ammo that does more damage at closer range.  Certain ammo that does more damage at longer range.

 

For planes, we have altitude bands.  High, medium and low.  See a connection? 

 

While WG is notorious for having a secrecy complex and not being open about much of anything, I believe what they stated with the patch notes is, in fact, how the ammo is modeled in the game, based on personal experience and with an eye to how the devs seem to like to design things.

 

Also, though WG has never mentioned this, I theorize the ammo is crafted as stated partly to serve the function of "gun convergence" which WoWP doesn't have as a feature that would allow players to choose the range they'd like their guns to be effective at.


Edited by Mercsn, 04 July 2014 - 04:11 PM.

All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

90210wned #24 Posted 05 July 2014 - 01:10 AM

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Is it possible to change defensive ammo? like for my rear gunner on heavies and attack?

Mercsn #25 Posted 06 July 2014 - 06:20 PM

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View Post90210wned, on 04 July 2014 - 08:10 PM, said:

Is it possible to change defensive ammo? like for my rear gunner on heavies and attack?

 

I don't use heavy fighters or GA much and haven't kept track of how WG is handling rear gunner ammo.  Theory had been going back and forth as to if the tailgunner ammo was automatically upgraded when front gun ammo was.  Or, if extra tailgunner damage was basically only boosted through crew skills.

 

Alex aka RocketSpamer1 or chuck_norris10 might know more.


Edited by Mercsn, 06 July 2014 - 06:24 PM.

All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

count_baracca #26 Posted 07 July 2014 - 08:50 PM

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I wanted to expand on a question I asked in an XP-50 thread here, as I didn't want to take that one OT...

 

The gun range chart is great, but it cuts off at 30mm. On one hand, we see the effective/maximum ranges increasing as caliber increases. On the other hand, and I just upgraded to 37mm on the P-38G, much of I've read on the P-38's 37mm indicates it has a short(er) range. Which is fine as you want to be close, ideally, to take advantage of the 4x.50s. Does anyone know what the effective/maximum ranges are for this? I looked and couldn't find it.

 

Also, I'm stumped on ammo to feed, in particular, the 37mm - and in general, other caliber cannons. The consensus seems to be HE, if available. After reading this post again, I noticed the bold bit next to the High Explosive description: "Less damage on short distances." So is HE not a good choice if your style and/or equipment requires shorter distance to target? If so, what is? Thanks.

 

 



Trifler #27 Posted 07 July 2014 - 10:31 PM

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View PostMercsn, on 04 July 2014 - 05:03 PM, said:

 

Hi! Thanks for the read and the potential edit advice.

 

That wording was taken directly from what WG stated in the patch notes that accompanied the addition of the ammo belts.  And, actually, I believe from the way the ammo works, the wording is probably correct.  Remember, this isn't real life or real world physics we're dealing with.  It's arcady and a-historical.  So, they could code a certain ammo type to do a greater damage at longer range and less damage at a shorter range. 

 

If you think about other aspects of how the game is designed, you'll probably realize this is the dev's intent.  They have three types of ammo.  Standard and AP which does a consistent damage at all ranges.  Certain ammo that does more damage at closer range.  Certain ammo that does more damage at longer range.

 

For planes, we have altitude bands.  High, medium and low.  See a connection? 

 

While WG is notorious for having a secrecy complex and not being open about much of anything, I believe what they stated with the patch notes is, in fact, how the ammo is modeled in the game, based on personal experience and with an eye to how the devs seem to like to design things.

 

Also, though WG has never mentioned this, I theorize the ammo is crafted as stated partly to serve the function of "gun convergence" which WoWP doesn't have as a feature that would allow players to choose the range they'd like their guns to be effective at.

 

Hmm. WG is also well known for translation errors. I (and many others) have helped them correct many of them in the past. I imagine it would be easy to mistranslate "less damage falloff" as "increased damage at range." Personally, I see no reason why they wouldn't code it as damage falloff since you still get belts that are better at close range or better at long range that way, so everything you stated would still apply regardless. One with lots of damage falloff would be better at close range, etc. However, as you say, there is no real way to know for sure.



Mr_R #28 Posted 08 July 2014 - 12:21 AM

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View PostMercsn, on 12 April 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

I keep seeing the question of weapon range show up in various different threads and subforums.  I'm posting to put the basic information in one spot. 

 


 

Depending on the ammo you choose, weapons may actually lose effectiveness at close ranges.  Ranges in the chart are approximate, but reasonable guidelines to help newer players determine when they can and should start firing. 

 

The in game "lead indicator" (red circle attached to a targeted enemy aircraft), will light up as a faded red when your largest calibur weapon is in range.  It will become a more solid red when you are in effective range of the largest caliber weapon.  Note:  for many German and Russian planes, there will be multiple weapon calbers.  Just becuase the lead indicator is solid red, you may be out of effective (or even maximum) range of your smaller guns.

 

Gun Range Chart:

 

  Effective Range*A1 Maximum Range*A2
Light MG (.30 cal/ 7mm) 400 550
Heavy MG (.50cal/ 13mm) 500 700
20mm Cannon 700 1000
30mm Cannon 800 1200

* Ranges are approximate!  Effective and maximum range will vary (sometimes significantly) bewteen nation and early or late weapons. 

A.  Ranges listed are in meters

1.  "Effective Range" is assumed to be the entire range of 0 to listed and could be considered optimal, but dependent on player aim.

2.  "Maximum Range" is where the bullet dissapears or will no longer do damage if it hits

 (Also, keep in mind that if you are flying head to head with your enemy, you can start firing at longer range.  If your enemy is flying away from you, or is above you, you will want to fire at closer range.)

 


Ammo Types List:

(This information is taken from the patch notes that were available at the time WG introduced the ammo belts, futher explanation of ammo can be found in RBS' blog http://rocketbrainsurgeon.com/ammunition-guide-stuff-goes-bang/ and thanks to Rock18 for suggesting the link).

 

Standard ammo has constant damage over range.  The list below describes range characteristics of other ammo types.  I've listed in bold types that do less damage at close range (which is a more intense loss of damage effect on close in shooting than those listed as "more damage at longer ranges").  Not all nations have access to all types of ammo.


Standard – Basic ammo:  Moderately effective on all distances.  No chance of setting opponent on fire (unless damage is to fuel tank).

Armor-Piercing – Higher damage on greater distances.  No chance of setting opponent on fire (unless damage is to fuel tank).

Incendiary Lower damage on greater distances. Average (20%) chance to set opponent on fire.

Solid Core Armor-Piercing – Significantly higher damage on greater distances.  No chance to set opponent on fire (unless damage is to fuel tank).

Armor-Piercing-Incendiary – Slightly more damage on greater distances.  Low (15%) chance to set opponent on fire.

High Explosive-Incendiary - Less damage on short distances.  Significantly more damage on greater distances. High (30%) chance to set opponent on fire.

High Explosive – Less damage on short distances.  Even higher damage on greater distances. Low (10%) chance to set opponent on fire.

 

 

Now, why WG can't put this info in the weapons tab pulldown available in the hangar is a very good question.  It seems it would help players understand how to use their plane...and how to defend against attackers by knowing what range they can shoot at.

 

Thanks to WG, Alex (RS1), RocketBrainSurgeon (RBS), Dirizion, Craylex, others who've participated in weapon range and ammo type discussions and to xQuietx and others who've suggested this info should be available in the hangar "firepower" pulldown or module upgrade info.

 

----> For rocket ranges, see Alex "RocketSpammer1"s guide here:  http://forum.worldof...020#entry424020

You might want to add the 30s from the Ta as 3500ft


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