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109 B, need a valid & good reason not to sell it


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MagusGerhardt #41 Posted 19 April 2014 - 05:28 PM

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View PostSandman1969, on 19 April 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

 

 

If this plane is not a turn fighter, then it should not be able to out turn the same plane.

 

That's an easy one.

 

He didn't have the 20mm MG-FF installed, did not have the wing guns mounted, and had a tighter turning radius than you.


 

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Sandman1969 #42 Posted 19 April 2014 - 06:19 PM

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I don't have the wing guns mounted either, as stated. I do have the top hub gun.

MagusGerhardt #43 Posted 19 April 2014 - 08:33 PM

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View PostSandman1969, on 19 April 2014 - 12:19 PM, said:

I don't have the wing guns mounted either, as stated. I do have the top hub gun.

 

So, what I said was accurate.  He out turned you because he did not have the top hub gun and you did.


 

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Sandman1969 #44 Posted 20 April 2014 - 01:23 AM

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Ok, so I dive on a 110 b, I did a whopping 31 damage to it.

Seems to be normal for me with this plane anymore. Barely scratch anything I am dead on aiming to and I know I am pretty much dead on as I am using DrSinister's tracer mod. Still can't damage sfa with it anymore.

 



Mercsn #45 Posted 20 April 2014 - 04:52 AM

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View PostSandman1969, on 19 April 2014 - 08:23 PM, said:

Ok, so I dive on a 110 b, I did a whopping 31 damage to it.

Seems to be normal for me with this plane anymore. Barely scratch anything I am dead on aiming to and I know I am pretty much dead on as I am using DrSinister's tracer mod. Still can't damage sfa with it anymore.

 

 

Are you wearing your tinfoil hat?  If not, that's the cause.  Put that sucker back on and you'll be right as rain in no time!


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

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The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

Sandman1969 #46 Posted 20 April 2014 - 01:17 PM

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So instead of actually trying to explain the 31 damage, you need to throw the tin foil bs at me.

 

This forum is starting to follow suit with the wot forums.



Mercsn #47 Posted 20 April 2014 - 05:52 PM

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Sandman, i only tease you because so many of your threads are...kooky or sky-is-falling crises.  

 

You dove on a 110b in a what, firing what guns, with what ammo, at what range, for what amount of time, with what crew skills, with what consumables,  with what ping and fps, on what map, etc.

 

You want answers to something that you can't figure out, but give practically no information. 

 

I really think if you toned down your in battle frustration and anger while increasing your awareness of the ins snd outs of what's going on in the game code at the time it's happening,  you'd be a 70% solo player.  


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

Sandman1969 #48 Posted 20 April 2014 - 09:53 PM

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Mercsn, I have the top hub gun only usi9ng the top ammo for it.

I dove on the 110 b in my 109 B.

Don't remember range, but I usually climb at the start to around 1700 meters. So around that til I saw a low flying 110 b and I dove on it until I had to pull away.

Crew skills I believe are just the view range at this time. What do consumables have to do with it?

Ping is around 30 to 50 with fps is around 70 to 80.



Cuesta_Rey #49 Posted 20 April 2014 - 11:02 PM

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Within the past day or two, got these Aces with the Bf-109B. API rounds in the 30 cal guns and HE rounds in the hub cannon.

 

 



Mercsn #50 Posted 21 April 2014 - 12:48 AM

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View PostSandman1969, on 20 April 2014 - 04:53 PM, said:

Mercsn, I have the top hub gun only usi9ng the top ammo for it.

I dove on the 110 b in my 109 B.

Don't remember range, but I usually climb at the start to around 1700 meters. So around that til I saw a low flying 110 b and I dove on it until I had to pull away.

Crew skills I believe are just the view range at this time. What do consumables have to do with it?

Ping is around 30 to 50 with fps is around 70 to 80.

 

Sandman, I know you can aim, but I've seen you have trouble landing shots or doing damage since the first posts I noticed from you in beta.  It's conceivable that you opened fire beyond effective range of the MGs and weren't hitting with the hub gun (it's hard to tell where, even with a tracer mod, the 1 hub round is going in the MG spam), and then the hub gun was overheated by the time you were in range of the MGs which might not have the punch to do much damage to the 110B if he's got a covering equipped. 

 

Zen35 had several times reported non damage strikes.  He would see the shots hit and "plink" on the aircraft in front of him and/ or the target camera window, but now damage would come off.  We never ironed out if this was a bug, a resistance roll by the defender when the bullet "hit" or some "ease of entry" aid designed to increase time to kill in certain situations by having the shots "hit" but not cause damage. 

 

Turn on the replay option so you can just upload the replay for others with good observation skills and understanding of game mechanics like Binestar, Alex aka RS1, RBS, et al to watch and see if they can see what might be going on. 

 

@ DoubleS, nice games man.


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

Sandman1969 #51 Posted 21 April 2014 - 11:57 AM

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Mercsn, go back to post #38, I have a replay there of a turn fight with another 109 b.

Sandman1969 #52 Posted 21 April 2014 - 01:28 PM

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View Postdoublespook, on 20 April 2014 - 07:02 PM, said:

Within the past day or two, got these Aces with the Bf-109B. API rounds in the 30 cal guns and HE rounds in the hub cannon.

 

 

 

How do you fight in it?

I can't even get 1 kill in it anymore, regardless of what I try.

 

I actually hate this plane now. I try different things and different set ups & still cannot do squat.



Toggle #53 Posted 21 April 2014 - 04:02 PM

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Sandman1969, on 09 April 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

Toggle, I have a mouse pad that was made specifically for optical mice. Was made in the U.K.

Where the mouse pad was made has nothing to do with the mouse' inability to read movement properly through cat hair. 



Mercsn #54 Posted 21 April 2014 - 05:56 PM

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View PostSandman1969, on 21 April 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

Mercsn, go back to post #38, I have a replay there of a turn fight with another 109 b.

 

And... how another 109b could out turn you was explained.   That replay has nothing to do with the next issue you brought up.   I've come to realize that you don't want answers, you just want to complain or get pity.

 

Carry on.


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

Cuesta_Rey #55 Posted 21 April 2014 - 06:50 PM

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View PostSandman1969, on 21 April 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

 

 

How do you fight in it?

I can't even get 1 kill in it anymore, regardless of what I try.

 

I actually hate this plane now. I try different things and different set ups & still cannot do squat.


BnZ, always. Even against another 109B, do not get into a turn fight. You'll burn off too much energy and ultimately that works against you. Judicious use of flaps and some throttle adjustments to get a quicker turn-around to point guns on target. Wait until you are 1500 ft or less away from the enemy to begin firing and you will shred them. Early fire gives the enemy too much warning for evasive maneuvers and doesn't score massive hits.

I try to never turn more than 90 degrees after diving on an enemy without going back up and diving again. When I do turn more than 90 degrees to pursue, it often gets me into trouble. 



Worlds_Okayest_Dad #56 Posted 21 April 2014 - 08:35 PM

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Love the 109b, although the last 3 aces in it were losses for me......even had a 7 kill rampage that ended in a loss due to supremacy..... I fly it like Mizer said, a slow p51a. Slashing attacks and picking my targets carefully. Bf110b's are my favorite main course, and p36s and i17s for desert.

jrm000kc #57 Posted 25 April 2014 - 12:19 AM

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This plane is an enigma to me. Absolutely horrible stats with it. I know I suck so I'll put that on the table. Everyone says 'stay high' with it but how are you supposed to target and shoot down planes if you're climbing and staying at high altitude? Whenever I do pick a target it's usually way, way below so there goes altitude trying to engage it. What do you do? Stay at high altitude and let them come to you? I had a P-36 on my tail for literally 5 minutes until he got me. 90% of the time someone gets on my tail and once that happens it over because this plane cannot turn worth anything. Can't go for altitude because flying in a straight line to gain it would mean immediate destruction for this paper mache aircraft. I'm just not good at this game, and even worse at bnz.

When I pick a heavy German plane I have NO issues...usually do pretty good, even struggling with a joystick. The heavy German fighters almost feel like a cheat because of the damage they can take, rear gunner, and totally destructive fire power. However, hop in the 109 and it's nothing but grief...I know I know...pick good targets, good positioning, and good group. I try and I'm not getting it. To add the delights of flying this coffin it appears the P38 is now a 109 killer-further adding to the seeming futility of trying to pilot this thing. I know I need to 'study' different planes in order to pick the right targets but seriously I'm just a casual gamer that likes simply getting into a battle and blasting whatever I can get in the cross hairs lol. To any of you 109 Aces I'm in complete awe of you and respect your skill and ability to make this plane a killing machine instead of it killing me lol. Good luck and happy trolling. (I'm usually the victim...I guess we all serve a purpose of some type.)



Worlds_Okayest_Dad #58 Posted 25 April 2014 - 07:13 AM

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Jrm000kc, I know its frustrating when your plane doesnt do what you expect it too. I myself am a casual gamer, however, I do learn the aircraft that I chose to fly. If I dont "get it" within 10 to 15 battles, I look for videos people have posted on youtube on how to fly that certain plane. Also watching some good pilots on my team after I have died to see how they are flying their planes. The 109b is an awesome light fighter once you know its weaknesses and learn how to exploit its strengths. Also, fly the planes you do well in and enjoy flying, youll find you perform better when flying them.

MagusGerhardt #59 Posted 25 April 2014 - 08:00 AM

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View Postjrm000kc, on 24 April 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

This plane is an enigma to me. Absolutely horrible stats with it. I know I suck so I'll put that on the table.

 

You don't suck.  You're merely an inexperienced novice.  Very few players are "good" with any specific plane the moment they pick it up, or even after a handful of matches in it.  Practice makes perfect, or at least makes for improvement.

 

Everyone says 'stay high' with it but how are you supposed to target and shoot down planes if you're climbing and staying at high altitude? Whenever I do pick a target it's usually way, way below so there goes altitude trying to engage it.

 

You should stay high in a 109 or a German heavy.  When working with a team, the idea is tear down the opposing team the way you would demolish a multiple story building.  (Prior to collapsing detonations, that is)  You start at the top and work your way down.  Once the top layer of opposition is dealt with the 109 pilots are left free to dive on aircraft flying in the next layer down.  Don't dive all the way down to the deck yet, or one of the fighters in a higher altitude will dive on you and turn the tables.  Dive on your target, take your shot without losing speed, then level off and boost away from his gun range before he can turn and get on your tail.  If he gets on your tail, you either picked on a plane that boosts better than you or were not going fast enough when you made your pass.

 

What do you do? Stay at high altitude and let them come to you? I had a P-36 on my tail for literally 5 minutes until he got me. 90% of the time someone gets on my tail and once that happens it over because this plane cannot turn worth anything.

 

Ideally, yes.  If you can goad an enemy pilot into climbing towards you while you are coming at them head-on they will stall below you (or be very low on energy and practically stationary anyway), allowing you a quick shallow dive kill with engine idled and air brakes open, then you can nose back up and have lost hardly any altitude in the exchange.  Don't engage in turnfights against anything at high altitude except heavies; those you can outturn easily.  Other fighters you want to outrun and lead into groups of friendlies.

 

 Can't go for altitude because flying in a straight line to gain it would mean immediate destruction for this paper mache aircraft. I'm just not good at this game, and even worse at bnz.

 

Nobody else here can go for altitude in a straight line climb while in range of an enemy's guns, either.  The attempt is folly.  Don't climb or perform *any* maneuver that leaves you as easy target while an enemy has you in range of their guns and especially if they are currently hunting you.  That is akin to swallowing a wireless bomb and giving everyone on Reddit the access code to it.  You just know someone will do it.  The judgement of its fragility when compared to a heavy fighter is accurate; you have to calculate moves to avoid situations that will lead to taking damage in a 109.  It's not nearly as flimsy as a Zero or I-16, but it can't take much punishment, either.  There is hope for you, though!  If you are a capable BnZ pilot in a Bf.110 with practice you will develop the skills necessary to fly the 109.  

 

When I pick a heavy German plane I have NO issues...usually do pretty good, even struggling with a joystick. The heavy German fighters almost feel like a cheat because of the damage they can take, rear gunner, and totally destructive fire power.

 

This tells me that you do know what is going on and even though you claim to be completely casual, you are not devoid of skill.  Once you've some more battles under your belt you'll begin to recognize what can and can't keep up with you, what situations will get someone on your tail and won't, and what your guns can and can't paste in a single pass.  Modify that knowledge to a little less firepower, a lot more maneuverability, a little less durability and speed and no tailgunner and you'll be compensating for the 109's shortcomings in no time.

 

However, hop in the 109 and it's nothing but grief...I know I know...pick good targets, good positioning, and good group. I try and I'm not getting it.

 

Two questions at this point for you:  A.  Is your Bf.109B/Bf.109E fully researched?  This makes a huge difference on both aircraft.  B.  Have you watched any youtube videos of capable 109 pilots actually demonstrating what has been suggested to you?  The flight style of the 109 is more easily mimicked from witnessing than learning from text descriptions.

 

To add the delights of flying this coffin it appears the P38 is now a 109 killer-further adding to the seeming futility of trying to pilot this thing.

 

To the contrary; the P-38 is ill equipped to handle a light fighter that operates "in the green" at high altitude.  The Lightnings are only able to outmanuever light fighters that mount things they shouldn't, like outboard heavy cannons.  If you're using the 20mm wing guns on the 109 Emil take them off and take more time aiming to make up for the lost damage potential of the wing guns.  Ditto for the 109B if you're having trouble being outmanuevered at high altitude by heavier aircraft.  The only advantage the P-38 should have on you then is firepower and boost duration.  Avoid the headon pass as he can kill you with a solid burst; turn and get on his tail, if he turns with you idle your engine and keep guns on target while keeping your speed in the green band.  If he tries to boost away from you, boost to keep pace as long as you can and lay in the punishment!  Hurt him as hard as you can before he's out of effective range and then stop boosting; be ready to dodge his next pass at you and do it all again.

 

I know I need to 'study' different planes in order to pick the right targets but seriously I'm just a casual gamer that likes simply getting into a battle and blasting whatever I can get in the cross hairs lol. To any of you 109 Aces I'm in complete awe of you and respect your skill and ability to make this plane a killing machine instead of it killing me lol. Good luck and happy trolling. (I'm usually the victim...I guess we all serve a purpose of some type.)

 

Hope this makes a few things about how the two classes work and given you insight into the new American heavies!

 

Good hunting!  :honoring:


 

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Sandman1969 #60 Posted 26 April 2014 - 08:29 PM

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I give up on this plane. Even when I try to stay high etc, still cannot do a doG damned thing with it.

Just had 3 matches with it, all 3 were losses.

I F/n hate this plane now.

 

 






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