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[spoiler] what the Chinese tech tree could have looked like

Chinese tech tree China tech tree Chinese Curtiss Vultee MiG Ilyushin Yakovlev Lavochkin

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J311yfish #41 Posted 03 August 2016 - 01:13 PM

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Update 1.9.5.3 Announcement

China

 Ki-43-Ic: significantly increased its dynamics, manoeuvrability, and weapon accuracy. Durability was reduced.

 

Ki-43-Ic pre-patch / Ki-43-Ic post-patch


Edited by J311yfish, 03 August 2016 - 01:40 PM.

Main tech tree projects:   JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  •  UNITED STATES    GERMANY  •  USSR  // aircraft to China

Europe tech tree projects:  ITALY    FRANCE    SWEDEN    Finland (skins•  Poland  •  International  //  Retired projects:  China    Brazil

Historical scenarios:  Spanish Civil War (skins•  Invasion of Poland  •  Winter War  •  Continuation War // History of World of Warplanes

Map proposals:   Panama Canal    Great Wall of China    Cliffs of Dover   //  Clan:  343 Kokutai  //  Tutorial:  How to ignore forum posts and signatures


death2019 #42 Posted 13 April 2017 - 06:25 AM

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:honoring:

J311yfish #43 Posted 03 November 2018 - 02:04 AM

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Update -- Project Terminated!

 

Since the creation of this thread ~4.5 years ago, and the introduction of these aircraft …

 

-- Lavochkin line for USSR

-- Boeing P-26 Peashooter as part of Seversky-Republic line for USA

-- IJA line for Japan

-- Henschel Hs 123 for Germany

-- Douglas A-26B Invader for USA

-- Petlyakov Pe-2 for USSR

 

… the opportunities for Chinese progression have been killed, and the choices of Chinese premiums has been narrowed considerably:

 

Remaining premium opportunities

 

Given that this tech tree project has devolved into simple premium speculation, I am going to consider it officially terminated!

 


Edited by J311yfish, 03 November 2018 - 05:50 PM.

Main tech tree projects:   JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  •  UNITED STATES    GERMANY  •  USSR  // aircraft to China

Europe tech tree projects:  ITALY    FRANCE    SWEDEN    Finland (skins•  Poland  •  International  //  Retired projects:  China    Brazil

Historical scenarios:  Spanish Civil War (skins•  Invasion of Poland  •  Winter War  •  Continuation War // History of World of Warplanes

Map proposals:   Panama Canal    Great Wall of China    Cliffs of Dover   //  Clan:  343 Kokutai  //  Tutorial:  How to ignore forum posts and signatures


J311yfish #44 Posted 03 November 2018 - 06:19 PM

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Project terminated!

Main tech tree projects:   JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  •  UNITED STATES    GERMANY  •  USSR  // aircraft to China

Europe tech tree projects:  ITALY    FRANCE    SWEDEN    Finland (skins•  Poland  •  International  //  Retired projects:  China    Brazil

Historical scenarios:  Spanish Civil War (skins•  Invasion of Poland  •  Winter War  •  Continuation War // History of World of Warplanes

Map proposals:   Panama Canal    Great Wall of China    Cliffs of Dover   //  Clan:  343 Kokutai  //  Tutorial:  How to ignore forum posts and signatures


J311yfish #45 Posted 02 January 2019 - 02:54 AM

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from a related thread on Flying Tigers and ROCAF roundels:

 

View PostJ311yfish, on 03 January 2018 - 06:47 AM, said:

From American Volunteer Group Colours and Markings, by Terrill J. Clements (Osprey 2001):

 

"When the AVG's Tomahawks were uncrated at Mingaladon airfield, they were completely bereft of national markings of any kind.  The masking mats used by Curtiss had the locations for insignia incorporated into the pattern so that they could be easily and consistently added upon final assembly.  These were laid out according to British specifications.  According to Pentecost, his men marked Chinese insignia on the first few aeroplanes that were assembled, but this practice was discontinued because of the time and effort required.  It is also likely that the British opposed anything that raised the profile of this not-so-secret operation any more than absolutely necessary." (Clements, 15)

 

"One old account mentions rumours of British pressure to remove the Chinese insignia after hostilities had commenced, and photos of a few aeroplanes assembled in the first weeks do show evidence of this.  But two of the last aeroplanes assembled (number 99, delivered on [11/22/1941], and number 92, delivered [11/28]) also had patches of an off-white colour on the undersides of their wings, although these were perhaps the results of repairs rather than markings changes." (Clements, 15)

 

There is more that can be said about this, from the same source; here are some bullets to save time:

-- secret order signed by Roosevelt 12/23/1940 authorizing what would become the AVG

-- H81-A-2 Tomahawks from CAMCO, despite being labeled as H81-A-3 by Curtiss records

-- 36 Tomahawks shipped 01/1941, arrived 05/1941

-- 33 Tomahawks shipped 02/1941, arrived 06/1941

-- 31 Tomahawks shipped 03/1941, arrived 07/1941

-- 1st AVG officially established 08/01/1941

-- shark teeth painted on late 1941 (more detail on this and flying tiger emblems effectively date the aircraft in-game)

-- of 3 squadrons, 2 had the armament of the aircraft in game; one squadron had 7.92mm's instead of 7.62mm's

-- P-40E from USAAF stocks in West Africa; 4 RoCAF roundels painted over USAAF roundels

-- Tomahawks reclaimed by USAAF 07/1942

 

Also, I could be mistaken on this point, but the aircraft in that last picture, aircraft #104, could be P-40E from USAAF stocks, based on the number of Tomahawks delivered above.

 

Also, one reason that roundels were not painted on top by RoCAF (earlier aircraft) had to do with the poor quality of blue paint which faded easily in the sun.  This is mentioned in the source identified above.

 

If you are wanting to prove a case that the paint job is an error despite all evidence above -- for example, to claim that the date of the 'flying tiger' insignia being on the aircraft does not correspond to the dates in which they had 2 roundels only -- you would want to distinguish between the different models of P-40 received, and you would want to try to narrow down the dates exactly.  I think that the evidence here so far suggests that it can be left as is, which happens to be consistent with other aircraft of China.

 

View PostJ311yfish, on 15 January 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

From documentary on Amazon (Prime) -- Fei Hu - The Story of the Flying Tigers.

 

26:51 - 27:03 = armorer Chuck Baisden: "We had no airplanes.  The airplanes were assembled at Rangoon and flown up.  When the first planes got in there, we didn't have any tools!  We used tools that we took out of the trucks! and that's not tools to work on an aircraft."

30:18 - 30:30 = early video (in color) showing no roundels on top of the wings

32:03 - 32:53 = pilot Charlie Bond sees the British magazine 'The Illustrated Weekly of India' (dated 11/1941); on the cover is a P-40 with shark teeth, from the Royal Australian Air Force; this was the inspiration for the AVG to adopt shark teeth.

 

from a related thread on Flying Tigers and shark teeth:

 

View PostJ311yfish, on 01 January 2019 - 10:28 AM, said:

Curtiss P-40 -- tier V USA

 

Curtiss Tomahawk IIB -- tier V China (American Volunteer Group)

 

 

 


Main tech tree projects:   JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  •  UNITED STATES    GERMANY  •  USSR  // aircraft to China

Europe tech tree projects:  ITALY    FRANCE    SWEDEN    Finland (skins•  Poland  •  International  //  Retired projects:  China    Brazil

Historical scenarios:  Spanish Civil War (skins•  Invasion of Poland  •  Winter War  •  Continuation War // History of World of Warplanes

Map proposals:   Panama Canal    Great Wall of China    Cliffs of Dover   //  Clan:  343 Kokutai  //  Tutorial:  How to ignore forum posts and signatures


J311yfish #46 Posted 13 July 2019 - 12:51 PM

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Given the introduction of Update 2.1 and the combined Europe tab that permits aircraft to be sent to any of the major 5 countries, it is possible that a similar mechanic could be employed for sending aircraft to China, such as from the U.S. and U.S.S.R.


Main tech tree projects:   JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  •  UNITED STATES    GERMANY  •  USSR  // aircraft to China

Europe tech tree projects:  ITALY    FRANCE    SWEDEN    Finland (skins•  Poland  •  International  //  Retired projects:  China    Brazil

Historical scenarios:  Spanish Civil War (skins•  Invasion of Poland  •  Winter War  •  Continuation War // History of World of Warplanes

Map proposals:   Panama Canal    Great Wall of China    Cliffs of Dover   //  Clan:  343 Kokutai  //  Tutorial:  How to ignore forum posts and signatures


J311yfish #47 Posted 06 June 2022 - 04:54 AM

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Twin-engine bombers in China

 

roughly chronological

 

========================================================================================================================
 
Fiat BR 3
-- Fiat A 25 1000hp x1
-- contract for 20 on 06/30/1932
-- further 10 originally to have been ordered, to make up a total of 3 squadrons
-- first aircraft ready 01/1933, 6 more arrived 02/1933, some later; 3-4 more later in 1933.
-- Italian serials MM20080-20087
-- bombers were issued to the 1st Squadron
 
Caproni Ca 101
-- one 3-engined bomber-transport monoplane sent to China autumn 1933, demonstrated, purchased for CAF
 
Caproni Ca 111RC
-- Isotta Fraschini Asso 750hp x1
-- 2 single-engined recon-bomber monoplanes
-- delivered early 1935 [more]
 
Curtiss BT-32 bomber version (c/n 42) of the Condor
-- Wright SGR-1820-F3 Cyclone x2
-- transport biplane (bomber version) shipped to China 02/17/1934 as demonstrator
-- demonstration 04/17/1934; sold 09/02/1934 as personal transport for Chiang Kai-shek
 
Savoia (SIAI) S 72
-- Alfa Romeo and Bristol Pegasus SRs 550hp x3
-- bomber-transport monoplane
-- first arrived 07/28/1935, presented to Chiang Kai Shek
-- six ordered late 1934 or early 1935, delivered early 1936; assigned to 10th Squadron
 
Martin B-10 and B-12
-- twin-engine bomber monoplanes released for export to China
-- CAF ordered 9 Martin M-139WC-1 and WC-2
-- Wright Cyclone R-1820-F3S 750hp x2
-- c/ns 677-682 and 689-691
-- first 3 of a batch of 6 arrived 02/1936, last handed over to CAF 05/17/1936; last 3 arrived 06/1936
-- first landed in Manila and arrived in Hong Kong 12/1936
-- assigned to 30th Squadron, 8th Air Group, and were also used by the 14th (Volunteer) Squadron
 
Heinkel He 111K (export version of He 111A)
-- BMW VI 750hp x2
-- 6 ordered by Canton government, arrived summer 1936; delivery delayed by Nanking takeover of Canton Air Force
-- 4 recieved by the CAF 10/1936; 2 in 11/1936
-- assigned to 19th Squadron of 8th Air Group
-- last He 111 taken out of storage at Chengtu 12/1943 and modified for transport with Wright R-1820 engines
 
Savoia S 81B
-- Isotta-Fraschini Asso XI RC 840hp x2
-- selected for production at the SINAW factory in Nanchang
-- 6 ordered early 12/1936 and one example MM326 imported from Italy; arrived Hong Kong 10/1937; 6 finally sent to Canton by rail 06/1938; meanwhile 2 built and issued to 13th Squadron
-- Japan bombed the factory 12/1937
 
Junkers Ju 86K
-- order for 20 placed 11/1937 to be delivered before 08/1938, though after outbreak of war in 1937 Germany avoided delivering parts
-- original production plans were for 54 of military version of the Ju 160, and 24 K 85 bombers, but none were ever delivered; 20 Ju 86's were to have been delivered in secret, but deliveries to China halted 05/1938, finally seized by German Government 09/1938 and delivered to Luftwaffe
 
Tupolev TB-3
-- M-34RN 840-970hp x4
-- 6 from Soviet Union; arrived at Alma-Ata 10/22/1937; reached Lanchow 10/21/1937; formal contract 03/03/1938
 
-- 299 supplied between 1937 and 1941
-- M-100A 860hp - Soviet designation SB-2M-100, whereas Chinese called it SB-2
-- M-103 960hp - Soviet designation SB-2M-103, whereas Chinese called it SB-3
 
Ilyushin DB-3
-- 24 supplied by Soviet Union 1939
-- M-87A 900-950hp x2
-- first 12 delivered 06/1939; second group of 12 delivered 07/1939
-- initially assigned to the 10th and 14th Squadrons of the 8th Group.
-- formal order dated 06/20/1939
 
Fiat BR 20
-- captured from Japanese, taken on charge by CAF 1939
 
========================================================================================================================
 
1942-1945 
 
Lockheed A-29 Hudson IIIA
-- 33 allocated for Lend-Lease to China 1941
-- Wright Cyclone R-1820-87 1200hp
-- 19 received by CAF
-- arrival in India 08/1942; assigned to 2nd Bomb Group, CAF
-- 14 in three squadrons as of 11/1944; additional 9 salvaged and added to inventory
-- 10 transferred to CATC 06/1944
 
Consolidated B-24M Liberator
-- 138 allocated for Lend-Lease to China 1944-1945
-- P&W Twin Wasp R-1839-65 1200hp
-- 37 delivered via India at end of war
-- CAF crews sent to USA for training 1943
-- 308 Bomb Group, USAAF, transferred to 14th Air Force in China 03/1943-06/1945
 
North American B-25 Mitchell
-- 489 allocated for Lend-Lease to China 1943-1945
-- 131 transferred, but only 73, plus 11 from USAAF units, eventually delivered to CAF
-- contract 01/23/1942 originally for B-25C's (NA-93's), but cancelled, and all delivered were of B-25D, B-25G, B-25H, B-25J; all Wright R-2600-13 1700hp
-- crews of the 1st Bomb Group (1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Squadrons) converted to the B-25 at Karachi in the autumn of 1943 and were then attached to the CACW
 
========================================================================================================================
 
1945+
 
Ilyushin IL-28
-- also known as Harbin H-5
 
Tupolev Tu-4
-- Boeing B-29 reverse-engineered in U.S.S.R.
 
Tupolev Tu-16
-- also known as Xian H-6
-- first airborne nuclear test inside China 05/14/1965
 
 
maybe more

Edited by J311yfish, 06 June 2022 - 06:18 PM.

Main tech tree projects:   JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  •  UNITED STATES    GERMANY  •  USSR  // aircraft to China

Europe tech tree projects:  ITALY    FRANCE    SWEDEN    Finland (skins•  Poland  •  International  //  Retired projects:  China    Brazil

Historical scenarios:  Spanish Civil War (skins•  Invasion of Poland  •  Winter War  •  Continuation War // History of World of Warplanes

Map proposals:   Panama Canal    Great Wall of China    Cliffs of Dover   //  Clan:  343 Kokutai  //  Tutorial:  How to ignore forum posts and signatures


GonerNL #48 Posted 06 June 2022 - 11:20 AM

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View PostJ311yfish, on 06 June 2022 - 05:54 AM, said:

Martin B-10 and B-12

 

I would love to have it in the game.

Netherlands East Indies AF flew them as Martin Model 139WH (and model 166) ...

 


Edited by GonerNL, 06 June 2022 - 11:22 AM.

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