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[spoiler] what the Japanese tech tree could look like

Japan Mitsubishi Aichi Kawanishi Kyushu Kawasaki Nakajima Tachikawa Mansyu Rikugun

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lostwingman #81 Posted 12 March 2014 - 01:42 PM

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When the devs make a line, they appear to be prioritizing design lineage rather then simply fitting the most produced aircraft in a role into certain tiers.

Ground Attack, the new Arty




Raindrops #82 Posted 12 March 2014 - 05:10 PM

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View Postlostwingman, on 11 March 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

View PostRaindrops, on 10 March 2014 - 10:47 PM, said:

I personally placed the A2D as a tier nine, but it's a bit hard to compare a plane relying on 7000lbs of bombs with one that mounts a 57mm derp. (I don't think the Ki-93 mounted bombs with that gondola either.)


Rear part of the gondola behind the 57mm/75mm.

I did look into this, and it can indeed mount a pair of 250kg bombs - the same as the A7M. Still, that is a big difference - about 15000 vs 84000 total damage. The 75mm may/may not be an acceptable trade if it performs about like an inexhaustible rocket supply, but the 57mm wouldn't really compare when it comes to leveling bases. Do remember that the IL-20 can mount a pair of 57mms - and has 40200 potential damage in ordinance as well.

Speed-wise the Ki-93 falls behind as well as a tier-nine contender - the IL-40 hits 880kmh at altitude, the Skyshark at 813, while the Ki-93 moves along at 624kmh. It's a nice plane, but would not feasibly be stretched to tiers nine-ten. I believe J3llyfish is right by leaving it at tier eight, where it would have decent speed and a good gun in the 75mm.



J311yfish #83 Posted 12 March 2014 - 05:38 PM

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View Postlostwingman, on 12 March 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

When the devs make a line, they appear to be prioritizing design lineage rather then simply fitting the most produced aircraft in a role into certain tiers.

 

There are certainly competing strategies for determining design lineage.  I will list them at the end.  My approach has been:

 

1. Make a list of all WWII-era Japanese aircraft

 

2. Eliminate aircraft

 

3. Sort what remains

 

The process above is basically sorting information and there isn't much strategy involved.  It provides a reasonable framework, but the real obstacle you face then is multiple aircraft at each tier.  What is the best way to proceed?  Here are the strategies that I have identified:

 

 

 

That's where I'm at.  I intend to look at Designers next and Aces next week.  The identification of Themes is probably the most difficult way to slice the orange because it may require knowledge of aerodynamics, though there may be a way around that by reading first-hand accounts of the pilots (or their opponents).  For example, there is one story about 4 American pilots that encountered a single Ki-43, but gave up after 40 minutes because they couldn't compete with his maneuverability.  I don't remember where I saw that but I'll probably see it again.  Fun Factor is also difficult because it becomes very subjective so I'd rather avoid it and let someone else decide.

 

If there is an approach that I have not considered then I am certainly open to ideas.

 


 

Designers

-- quick overview of designers responsible for each aircraft

 

Mitsubishi (Navy)

 

Kawanishi Kyushu (Navy)

 

Aichi / Kusho / Kugisho Nakajima (Navy)

 

 

Nakajima Rikugun (Army)

 

Kawasaki Tachikawa (Army)

 

Kawasaki Tachikawa / Nakajima (Army)

 


 

Tier II Alternates

 

 


Edited by J311yfish, 09 November 2016 - 10:46 PM.

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J311yfish #84 Posted 13 March 2014 - 06:13 AM

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Designer tracking

-- Below is an older list of designers that was useful early in the project derived from Francillon, Dyer, Mikesh.

-- I will leave it here for accountability sake but I do not intend to keep it updated; see the above table (or individual aircraft below) for that.

-- I recommend opening all the spoiler tags then using Find (Control + F) to find what you are looking for.

 

 


Edited by J311yfish, 18 October 2015 - 10:17 AM.

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J311yfish #85 Posted 14 March 2014 - 03:22 PM

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Example (first flight date MM/YYYY)

 

 


 

 

Tier I

 

Nakajima Type 91  (05/1928-09/1934) -- Army Type 91 Fighter

 

 


 

 

Tier II

 

Nakajima A4N  (08/1934+) -- Navy Type 95 Carrier Fighter

 

Aichi D1A1 -- "Susie" (1934+) -- Navy Type 94 Carrier Bomber

 

Kusho B4Y1 -- "Jean"  (late 1935) -- Navy Type 96 Carrier Attack Bomber

 

Kawasaki Ki-10 -- "Perry" (03/1935, 05/1936) -- Army Type 95 Fighter

 

Kawasaki Ki-3  (04/1933-03/1935) -- Army Type 93 Single-Engined Light-Bomber

 


 

 

 


Edited by J311yfish, 09 November 2016 - 10:44 PM.

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J311yfish #86 Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:03 PM

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Tier III

 

Mitsubishi A5M -- "Claude"  (02/1935) -- Navy Type 96 Carrier Fighter

 

Aichi D1A2 -- "Susie"  (1936+) -- Navy Type 96 Carrier Bomber

 

Nakajima B5N1  -- "Kate"  (01/1937) -- Navy Type 97 Carrier Bomber

 

Nakajima Ki-27 -- "Nate"  (10/1936) -- Army Type 97 Fighter

 

Kawasaki Ki-32 -- "Mary" (03/1937) -- Army Type 98 Light-Bomber

 

Mitsubishi Ki-30 -- "Ann"  (02/1937) -- Army Type 97 Light-Bomber

 


Edited by J311yfish, 09 November 2016 - 10:23 PM.

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Commander_Rasseru #87 Posted 19 March 2014 - 12:39 PM

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View PostJ311yfish, on 18 March 2014 - 04:03 PM, said:

Some notes about the Ki-43's maneuverability from Fire in the Sky:

We need some sources other than just the western side. Problem with some sources is the honestly of the American's pilot viewpoint.



J311yfish #88 Posted 19 March 2014 - 01:39 PM

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Tier IV

 

Mitsubishi A6M1 Reisen  -- "Zero"  (04/1939) -- Navy Type 0 Carrier Fighter

 

Aichi D3A -- "Val"  (12/1937+) -- Navy Type 99 Carrier Bomber

 

Nakajima B5N2  -- "Kate"  (12/1939) -- Navy Type 97 Carrier Bomber

 

Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa (Peregrine Falcon)  隼  -- "Oscar"  (01/1939, 02/1942, 05/1944) -- Army Type 1 Fighter

 

Kawasaki Ki-28 -- "Bob"  (11/1936) -- Experimental Fighter

 

Kawasaki Ki-45 Toryu (Dragon Killer) 屠龍 -- "Nick"   (01/1939, 09/1941+) -- Experimental Two-Seat Fighter

 

Mitsubishi Ki-51 -- "Sonia"  (06/1939+, 1941) -- Army Type 99 Assault-plane

 


Edited by J311yfish, 21 September 2016 - 09:58 PM.

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J311yfish #89 Posted 21 March 2014 - 02:51 PM

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Tier V

 

Mitsubishi A6M2 Reisen -- "Zero"  (12/1939)

 

Mitsubishi J2M Raiden (Thunderbolt)  雷電  -- "Jack"  (05/1942) -- Navy Interceptor Fighter

 

Kusho D4Y Suisei (Comet) -- "Judy"  (11/1940) -- Navy Carrier Dive-Bomber

 

Nakajima B6N Tenzan (Heavenly Mountain) -- "Jill" (spring 1941+) --  Navy Carrier Attack Bomber


Edited by J311yfish, 13 January 2016 - 06:32 PM.

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J311yfish #90 Posted 21 March 2014 - 03:01 PM

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Tier V (continued)

 

Nakajima Ki-43-II (02/1942+)

 

Nakajima Ki-44 Shoki (Devil-Queller)  鐘馗  -- "Tojo"  (08/1940, 08/1942, 06/1943) -- Army Type 2 Single-seat Fighter

 

Kawasaki Ki-61-I Hien (Swallow)  飛燕  -- "Tony"  (12/1941) -- Army Type 3 Fighter

 

Kawasaki Ki-45 KAI  (09/1941) -- Army Type 2 Two-Seat Fighter

 


Edited by J311yfish, 23 September 2016 - 09:20 PM.

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J311yfish #91 Posted 21 March 2014 - 04:46 PM

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Tier VI

 

Mitsubishi A6M5 Reisen -- "Zero"  (08/1943+)

 

Kawanishi N1K1-J Shiden (Violet Lightning)  紫電  -- "George"  (12/1942+) -- Navy Interceptor Fighter

 

Aichi B7A Ryusei (Shooting Star) -- "Grace"   (05/1942+) -- Navy Carrier Attack-Bomber

 

Kugisho P1Y Ginga (Galaxy)  銀河  -- "Frances" (08/1943+) -- Navy Bomber / Night Fighter

 


Edited by J311yfish, 13 January 2016 - 06:45 PM.

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J311yfish #92 Posted 21 March 2014 - 05:34 PM

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Tier VI (continued)

 

Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate (Gale)  疾風  -- "Frank" (04/1943+) -- Army Type 4 Fighter

 

Nakajima Ki-44-II (08/1942+)

 

Kawasaki Ki-64 -- "Rob"  (12/1943) -- Experimental High-Speed Fighter

 

Kawasaki Ki-61-II -- "Tony"  (12/1943)

 

Kawasaki Ki-66 (10/1942-10/1943) -- Experimental Dive-Bomber

 

Kawasaki Ki-96  (09/1943) -- Experimental Twin-Engined Fighter

 


Edited by J311yfish, 23 June 2017 - 04:54 AM.

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J311yfish #93 Posted 21 March 2014 - 06:27 PM

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Tier VII

 

Mitsubishi A7M Reppū (Strong Gale)  烈風  -- "Sam"  (05/1944) -- Experimental Carrier Fighter

 

Kawanishi N1K2-J Shiden Kai (Violet Lightning, Modified)  紫電  -- "George"  (12/1943) -- Navy Interceptor Fighter

 

Nakajima J5N1 Tenrai (Heavenly Thunder)  天の雷  (07/1944) -- Experimental Interceptor Fighter

 

Kugisho P1Y3 Ginga (Galaxy)  銀河  -- "Frances" (07/1945+)

 

Kayaba Katsuodori -- (~1944) -- Experimental Ramjet Interceptor

 

Edited by J311yfish, 30 December 2015 - 02:15 AM.

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J311yfish #94 Posted 21 March 2014 - 06:42 PM

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Tier VII (continued)

 

Nakajima Ki-84-II  (early 1945)

 

Mitsubishi Ki-83  (11/1944) -- Experimental Long-Range Fighter

 

Kawasaki Ki-100 -- "Tony" (02/1945+) -- Army Type 5 Fighter

 

Kawasaki Ki-102 -- "Randy" (03/1944) -- Army Type 4 Assault Plane

 

Kawasaki Ki-108  (07/1944+) -- Experimental High-Altitude Fighter

 


Edited by J311yfish, 21 June 2015 - 03:33 PM.

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J311yfish #95 Posted 21 March 2014 - 06:43 PM

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Tier VIII
 

Kyūshū J7W1 Shinden (Magnificent Lightning)  震電  (08/1945) -- Experimental Interceptor Fighter

 

Kugisho Tenga (1945+)

 
Nakajima Kikka (Orange Blossom)  橘花  (08/1945) -- Experimental Special Attacker
 
Mitsubishi Ki-200 Syusui (Autumn Water)   秋水  (07/1945+) -- Experimental Rocket-Powered Interceptor Fighter