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[spoiler] what the Japanese tech tree could look like

Japan Mitsubishi Aichi Kawanishi Kyushu Kawasaki Nakajima Tachikawa Mansyu Rikugun

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lostwingman #61 Posted 06 March 2014 - 06:21 PM

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View PostJ311yfish, on 05 March 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

Update:    (old ----> new)

-- added jets at Tier VIII, IX, X according to engine lineage and J7W2 precedent

-- rearranged the tree more strictly across Navy/Army lines for these reasons:

  • to make jet relationship more apparent
  • to resolve the muddy overlap of heavy fighter / ground-attack roles
  • to indicate the Nakajima IJA line as the major parallel track from which smaller specializations can be made.
  • The new structure also makes it easier to incorporate other aircraft (if more are needed) based on their armament lineage, particularly at lower tiers.

 

 

Where did you get a Ki-201 Kai from? They only got as far as making an enlarged Me 262 for production to start around December '45.

The Kitsuka was started earlier and saw much more work around around it including variations.

 


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J311yfish #62 Posted 06 March 2014 - 07:44 PM

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View Postlostwingman, on 06 March 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

Where did you get a Ki-201 Kai from? They only got as far as making an enlarged Me 262 for production to start around December '45.

The Kitsuka was started earlier and saw much more work around around it including variations.

 

"Ki-201 Kai" is a placeholder name for the logical extension of the Ki-201, with "kai" simply meaning improved.  I took a similar liberty with "R2Y3," following the J7W3 precedent established by developers, in order to fill Tier X in a reasonable manner.  See quote below (or post above) for how that makes sense with respect to the engines.

 

View PostJ311yfish, on 05 March 2014 - 12:56 AM, said:

If this article is accurate, then there are 5 avenues for Japanese jet engine design:

 

1) turbojets inspired by German design -- leading to the Ne-10, Ne-12, Ne-120, Ne-130, Ne-230, Ne-330 engines (Kyushu J7W, Nakajima Kitsuka, Yokosuka R2Y2, Kawanishi K-200)

2) Campini-type jet engines inspired by Italian design -- leading to the Ishikawajima Tsu-11 engine (Yokosuka MXY9)

3) Bi-fuel rocket engines inspired by German design (Me-163) -- (Mitsubishi J8M)

4) pulse jet engines inspired by German (V1 flying bomb, He-162 Volksjager) -- leading to Maru KA 10 engine (Kawanishi Baika)

5) Pescara-type free piston compressor design -- no information

 

The most promising avenue with respect to Tier IX and Tier X for this game appears to be the turbojets, obviously.  So considering what is in game now:

 

Tier IX:  J7W2 -- Ne-130, Ne-230, Ne-330

Tier X:  J7W3 -- Ne-440

 

And looking at where engines in that line of development were used (or planned):

 

Nakajima Kitsuka -- Ne-10, Ne-12, Ne-120 (x2)

Nakajima Ki-201 -- Ne-130, Ne-230 (x2)

Yokosuka R2Y2 -- Ne-330 (x2)

 

A reasonable proposal would be:

 

Tier VIII: J7W1 // Nakajima Kitsuka

Tier XI:   J7W2 // Nakajima Ki-201 // Yokosuka R2Y2

Tier X:    J7W3 // Nakajima Ki-201 KAI // Yokosuka R2Y3

 

That would give fighter, fighter-bomber, and attack aircraft at Tier IX and X, and basically complete the upper end of the Japanese tech tree.


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lostwingman #63 Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:05 PM

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I have Edwin Dyer's book on my kindle right here. All those engines were considered for the Kitsuka which was much different from the Me 262 and especially the Ki-201. Additionally, the Ne-10 and Ne-12 were developed in 1943, how could they possibly be influenced by German information that did not reach Japan until Summer 1944? The Ne-20, Ne-130, Ne-230, and Ne-330 were the designs immediately inspired by the axial compressor drawing (each one designed by a different group). Ne-120 as far as I can find does not exist. The Ki-201 was the lesser modified design between the Kitsuka and 201, the Kitsuka had several variants. For our purposes is the original shimpu craft with dual 20mm cannons, an interceptor from that using a single 30mm cannon, and a FIghter-Bomber variant that would be slightly heavier and use either the 130 or 330 and two 30mm. Additionally, I have no idea where WG got the Ne-440, I think it is an invention on their part.

 

On the R2Y, it seems capable of receiving J7W treatment:

Block Quote

Even before the destruction of the first R2Y1, a second was being constructed and design work for the R2Y2 was underway. Contemporary sources show no less than four versions for how the R2Y2 may ultimately have appeared. The first had the Ne 330 engines in underwing nacelles. The second version showed the two engines buried within the fuselage with wing root air intakes and narrow jet nozzles. The third removed the wing intakes and replaced them with a nose intake, but it retained the narrow nozzles. Finally, the fourth was similar to the third save that the engine nozzles were larger. The first design is considered by most to be the initial R2Y2 concept while the other three are subject to debate. In part, this is due to the fact that the Japanese had very little time to explore various installations of turbojets in airframes.

Dyer, Edwin  M (2009-11-05). Japanese Secret Projects: Experimental Aircraft of the IJA and IJN 1939-1945 (Kindle Locations 3725-3731). Midland Pub Ltd. Kindle Edition.

 

Only questionable issue is that there is little info on armament.

 

I would contend this starting at tier 8, have the Ne-20 powered Kitsuka, have it lead to the Ki-201 and the more definitive Kitsuka design using the 330s. Definitive Kitsuka can lead to the tier X R2Y concept with other R2Y concepts directly bellow it, making the two Kitsuka's at tier 8 & 9 form a short parallel branch like you have with the IL-8 and IL-10 on the Soviet tree.

Tajikawa Ki-94-I is pretty interesting, 781km/h and as many guns as necessary to confuse it with a Sturmovich. It's only problem is it is a push-pull propeller craft. Still, seems Tajikawa had a bunch of wacky designs we could funnel the Ki-201 over into.

 


Edited by lostwingman, 06 March 2014 - 08:40 PM.

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J311yfish #64 Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:47 PM

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I appreciate your detail.  The "inspired by German design" phrase was mine and you are absolutely right to call me out on that hasty generalization.  

 

I do regret relying on Wikipedia for most of my information (the Ne-120 reference is from here).  I have checked out the Francillon (1970, 1979, 1987) and Dyer (2009) books from the library and will review them closely tonight.  I think I see what you are saying about the Ne-330 arrangement and the parallel treatment similar to Soviet tree.

 

I will be using the Francillon/Dyer books to confirm all information, and put it into a spreadsheet so that it is easier to keep track of; then I'll upload it so all have access.

 

I have not found any evidence to support the existence of Ne-440 either (or J7W3 for that matter); that is the only reason I felt comfortable moving forward in a logical manner to Tier X.  I'm not completely comfortable doing that but if there is a historical premise and if WG has decided it is reasonable to do it, then I'd be glad to investigate.

 

 

 

 


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lostwingman #65 Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:10 PM

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Past the J7W they appear to be based on design inclinations Dyer mentions:

Block Quote

The end of the war also spelled the end of the J7W2 Shinden-Kai. This was to be the turbojet- equipped version of the Shinden. The use of the radial engine had been a stop gap until a suitable turbojet was available. The Ne 12B was rejected as its power was considered too low to effectively propel the aircraft. In any case, work was by this time under way on the K ūgishō Ne 20 turbojet that was based on the German BMW 003A engine, the only turbojet built and flown in a Japanese aircraft: the Nakajima Kitsuka ( page 114 ). The J7W2 was to use the Ne 130 turbojet, also based on the BMW 003A, which was being developed by Ishikawajima-Shibaura. The Ne 130 was to have produced nearly double the thrust of the Ne 20; however, the Ne 130 would not be ready by the close of the war and as such the J7W2 remained a design board aircraft . There is speculation concerning what the J7W2 would have looked like. One suggestion is that the J7W2 would have been the J7W1 with the Mitsubishi radial replaced with the Ne 130 turbojet . A second suggestion concerns the fact that without the need for propeller clearance the Shinden could dispense with the tall landing gear, thus lowering the height of the aircraft. Aside from modifying the landing gear, the vertical stabilisers, fuselage and canopy shape may also have required adjustment. It is likely that had development of the J7W2 commenced with the availability of the Ne 130, a J7W1 airframe would have been adapted to accept the engine and testing conducted on this, with other modifications coming into play as a production J7W2 was standardised.

Dyer, Edwin  M (2009-11-05). Japanese Secret Projects: Experimental Aircraft of the IJA and IJN 1939-1945 (Kindle Locations 4126-4138). Midland Pub Ltd. Kindle Edition.

 He also has some art in that book predating WoWP that match the J7W2. The J7W3 is probably just a "what if bubble canopy for better visibility?" and "assume biggah engine!".


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J311yfish #66 Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:46 PM

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Regarding Yokosuka R2Y2 armament:

 

Francillon writes as early as 1970:

"In late 1944 the design staff of Dai-Ichi Kaigun Koku Gijitsusho suggested that the R2Y2 be redesigned as a jet attack bomber.  For this purpose it was intended to replace the fuselage-mounted Aichi [Ha-70] 10 (twin-coupled Atsuta 30 engines) with a large-capacity fuel tank, and to attach a 1,320 kg (2,910 lb) thrust Ne-330 turbojet under each wing outboard of the main undercarriage units.  Armament was to consist of a single 800 kg (1,764 lb) bomb slung beneath the fuselage and a battery of cannon installed in the nose.  Maximum anticipated speed at sea level was 430 kt (495 mph) compared with 388 kt at 10,000m (447 mph at 32,810 ft) for the piston-engined version.  This proposal was enthusiastically received by the Navy who, while detailed engineering design of the jet-powered R2Y2 was actively pursued, gave their authorization to complete the piston-engined R2Y1 as an aerodynamic prototype for the jet attack aircraft."

 

"Completed in April 1945, the R2Y1 prototype was transferred to Kisarazu where taxi-ing tests were marred by nosewheel shimmy and difficulties with an overheating engine.  Finally on 8 May the aircraft made its first flight with Lieut-Cdr Kitajima at the controls.  Unfortunately this flight had to be cut short because there was an abnormal rise in oil temperature, while a few days later an engine fire on the ground necessitated a complete engine change.  Before this could be done, the R2Y1 was destroyed by American bombs."

 

"At the end of the war a second R2Y1 prototype was under construction, and design of the R2Y2 had almost been completed." (p.473-474)

 

Dyer has more to say in 2009 about the R2Y1 and R2Y2 development, but his conclusion about armament is the same:

 

Dyer writes in 2009:

"For weapons, the aircraft would carry one 800 kg (1,764 lb) bomb and have a cannon armament in the nose."

 

"Unfortunately for Kugisho and the IJN, the R2Y2 would never be brought to full production.  With the end of the war, the second R2Y1 prototype remained incomplete and the R2Y2 would forever remain a design board aircraft. (p.79)

 

 


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Commander_Rasseru #67 Posted 07 March 2014 - 01:32 AM

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So the Yokosuka R2Y going to be the end tree of Heavies or Attack/Bombers?
So if I understand this right? It going to be R2Y VIII, R2Y1 IX, and R2Y2 X for a end tree? Or two version would be in one tree and the other version be another tree because it designed for a different role?



lostwingman #68 Posted 07 March 2014 - 02:47 AM

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It actually has a pretty good shot of being a light fighter given it's only got one engine and is supposed to be pretty light.

 

Whelp I'm a moron, forgot it was two engines staggered in the fuselage...


Edited by lostwingman, 07 March 2014 - 05:34 PM.

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J311yfish #69 Posted 07 March 2014 - 05:28 AM

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I have looked closely at the timelines for each of the above aircraft (as noted by Dyer below), and these are the facts that become apparent:

 

  • J7W1 was designed first, Kitsuka second, R2Y2 third, Ki-201 fourth, even though they were all parallel projects.
  • J7W1/2 production was to be the most ambitious (150/month), then Kitsuka (530 to be built in about 10 months), then Ki-201 (18 by March 1946), and R2Y2 production does not appear to have been established (2 prototypes).
  • Data for the Ne-230 and Ne-330 were anticipated, but not confirmed, at the time of surrender 15 August 1945 (Ne-230 three under construction but zero completed; Ne-330 zero completed)

 

As the airframes were under development they had these engines in mind:

 

  • J7W2:  Ne-130 (x1)
  • Kitsuka: Ne-12, Ne-20, Ne-130, Ne-330 (x2) -- though it should be noted that the Ne-12 and Ne-20 were in competition with each other for use due to time constraints
  • Ki-201: Ne-230, Ne-130 (x2) -- it should be noted here that the Ne-130 was considered an upgrade to Ne-230 because it produced higher thrust (though it also weighed more)
  • R2Y2:  Ne-330 (x2)

 

Engine comparison:

 

  • Ne-20       490 kg (1080 lb) of thrust
  • Ne-130     900 kg (1984 lb) of thrust
  • Ne-230     885 kg (1951 lb) of thrust -- anticipated, but not known at the time of surrender
  • Ne-330    1300 kg (2866 lb) of thrust -- anticipated, but not known at the time of surrender

 

So given the details above it was a good decision to bring J7W2 into the game as the first Japanese jet.  It is important to establish that if the J7W is going to be used as a precedent for the others.  It is also apparent that Kitsuka would be a good second choice.

 

 

Now, based on the best information available (Dyer and his extensive bibliography), following historical precedent, and using current J7W engines as guideline for tier placement:

 

VIII: Kitsuka (Ne-20 x2)

IX:   Kitsuka (Ne-130, Ne-230, Ne-330 x2) ----- Ki-201 (Ne-130, Ne-230 x2) ----- R2Y2 (Ne-330 x2)

X:   To be determined

 

Tier X is a logical leap that involves using the fictional Ne-440's.  It could mean a faster Kitsuka, "Ki-201 Kai"or "R2Y3" but I don't want to diminish the integrity of the rest of the tree by embracing fiction here at the end, so I will fix the tree to indicate that.

 

Timelines extracted from Dyer text:

 

J7W timeline

 

Kitsuka Timeline:

 

Ki-201 timeline

 

R2Y timeline

 

Engine timeline

 


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lostwingman #70 Posted 07 March 2014 - 04:29 PM

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Unless there is information out there Dyer is not aware of the design of the J7W3 appears to be a WG creation.

 

And this is my 666th post. I feel accomplished and truly frightening.

May my days of failing at vidya gaems continue ever more.


Edited by lostwingman, 07 March 2014 - 04:35 PM.

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Commander_Rasseru #71 Posted 08 March 2014 - 03:10 AM

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What if the A6Ms and the J7Ws are merged together in the future? If it is partly and fully..... What aircraft would be the best to fill in for the missing tiers? 
Like the A6M1 and A6M2 merged to be Tier V. What would be the new tier IV? This is just a example.

lostwingman #72 Posted 08 March 2014 - 03:32 AM

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Unless you have something between the A5M and the A6M they won't do it.

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J311yfish #73 Posted 09 March 2014 - 06:42 PM

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Still working on the tech tree after reviewing Francillon and Dyer closely, and I have learned a few things.

 

The current tech tree is a reasonable "rough draft" but the problems with it that I see are:

 

1.  Emphasis is on what is possible rather than on what is probable.  

The goal here should be to identify what is likely to be the clearest (most obvious) path forward without getting mired in possibilities (there are many).  Upon closer review it is clear that I made some hasty judgments with respect to available prototypes or projects in order to fill-in certain tiers.  Rather than make the smaller judgments myself, I will instead account for them as variables; that way whoever follows this work can make their own decisions without doing extensive research or wondering about my thought process.  

 

The main IJA fighter line still remains fairly obvious based on production values, sequential development, speeds, armaments:

 

 

2. Ground Attack / Heavy Fighter issues.

The "ground attack" role is not concentrated in an obvious aircraft lineage as it is with the Russian IL's; the role is instead dispersed among bombers, dive bombers, torpedo bombers, fighter-bombers, etc.  However, there are cases where an existing aircraft is adapted to the role (Ki-45, Ki-46, Ki-102) or designed for it (Ki-93, Ki-98 before changing to high-altitude concept).  I have identified what I consider to be the "ground attack" line based on speeds, armaments, and extensive comparison to attack aircraft and heavy fighters currently in the game.  If employed it would provide a ground attack experience that is characterized by slightly greater speed and maneuverability at the expense of armor.  I will edit this post later with images/comparisons to show how that would work (done, see below).

 

The problem is with the "heavy fighter" concept, which remains muddy despite my best efforts due to the abundance of choices and the challenge of IJA/IJN overlap. I have therefore accounted for them as variables and I will probably not venture further into that entanglement unless someone more knowledgeable than myself can shed light on the issue.  There are some great/interesting planes there and I don't want to be exclusive.  Also, there is still the question of schrage musik and other variations (whether they have relevance in game without bombers or night time, how it could be aimed or would it function automatically like a rear turret, etc.) and I don't want to speculate about that.

 

So with these things in mind, here is a more polished revision.  Still a work in progress but getting closer I think:

 

I have removed Ki-100, Ki-116, and Ki-96 from the big picture only because they are airframe progressions for Ki-61, Ki-84, Ki-102.  A detailed tech tree (one that shows all airframe, engine, armament progression) should include them.

 

I have a few more notes about this but I'll have to add them later.

 

Ground Attack / Heavy Fighter roles in depth:

All of this information has been taken from the World of Warplanes Encyclopedia (after the 1.2 update).  It has been arranged in a horizontal manner in order to make comparisons easy.  Ground attack aircraft in game have a brown background, IJN aircraft are in blue, IJA are in green.  Sources for Japanese aircraft are Francillon, Dyer, and Wikipedia if necessary.

 

Tier II:

 

Tier III:

 

Tier IV:

 

Tier V:

 

Tier VI:

 

Tier VII:

 

Tier VIII:

 


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J311yfish #74 Posted 10 March 2014 - 02:31 AM

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Double-boom fighters have a high fun factor.  I was curious to discover if the J4M in earlier versions of the game might be reincarnated as the Ki-98 or Ki-94-I to fill potential holes in the tech tree.  If so, it would not occur without alterations to the J4M model:

 

Double-boom fighter comparison:

 

 

Tachikawa Ki-94-I

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  • pictures of the original mock-up here
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  • video of RC model here

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lostwingman #75 Posted 10 March 2014 - 03:30 PM

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All that Dakka...

 

I'm not sure that's such a stretch for tier X.

 

I'm serious though, trade a little bit of hit points/survivability for the speed and a 57mm/2x20mm @ tier 9 and a 75mm anti-shipping plane @ tier X seems downright reasonable for an Attack Aircraft line.

 

Especially when you consider the A2D Skyshark is going to be pretty high on an eventual American line (legit end game potential).


Edited by lostwingman, 10 March 2014 - 04:29 PM.

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J311yfish #76 Posted 11 March 2014 - 12:41 AM

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View PostFuzzybrainlizard, on 24 February 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

Another interesting Japanese experimental fighter was the Kayaba "Katsuodori" Ku-4 Ram Jet fighter.  Premium? 

https://hangar47.com/uploads/Katsuodori-6.jpg

 

I have been reading more about the Kayaba Katsuodori Ku-4 ram jet fighter.  There is not much information to be found (Wikipedia or otherwise), but Dyer has good details:

 

 

Kayaba Katsuodori Ku-4

Type:  Point Interceptor

Crew: 1

Speed:  900 km/h estimated* (see Speed-Thrust table below)

Climb rate:  3min to 10,000m

Ceiling:  15,000m

Range: 400km

Endurance: 30min

Armament:  2x30mm caseless ammo

Span:  8.99m

Length: 4.48m

Height:  1.85m

Wing area: 12.57m2

Wing sweep: 25.5 degrees

Empty:  850kg

Loaded: 3000kg (caseless ammo helps) (1500kg of fuel consumed 50 kg/min)

 

The ram jet was to be brought to speed initially through the use of 4 rocket boosters (7200 kg thrust combined, then released to minimize drag, shown in picture above) and a wheeled apparatus (no landing gear).  After passing 367 km/h approx the ram jet would begin to function efficiently.  Dropping below that speed (approx) would mean that the ram jet would be unable to provide enough thrust to sustain forward movement, making you essentially a  vulnerable glider.

 

Maneuverability:

-- no tail + vertical wingtip rudders = very high roll rate?

-- variable speed/thrust relationship as mentioned below

-- Ku-4 was to have a rear-mounted 120hp de Havilland Gipsy 4-cylinder air-cooled inline engine w/ two-bladed propeller (130kg?); enough to maneuver as a glider, not enough to maintain speed.

 

Three-view:

 

Speed-Thrust relationship:

 

Timeline:

 

Would the ram jet mechanics make it difficult to implement?  If yes, would the use of Ne-20 (as Kayaba later proposed) circumvent that?  I don't know; but it does look fun.

 

Advantages:

-- small target

-- high roll rate?

-- unusual mechanics

 

Disadvantages:

-- must keep speed high to keep engine going

-- no mention of armor or self-sealing fuel tank (1500 kg of fuel)

-- unusual mechanics

 


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Raindrops #77 Posted 11 March 2014 - 03:47 AM

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View Postlostwingman, on 10 March 2014 - 04:30 PM, said:

I'm serious though, trade a little bit of hit points/survivability for the speed and a 57mm/2x20mm @ tier 9 and a 75mm anti-shipping plane @ tier X seems downright reasonable for an Attack Aircraft line.

 

Especially when you consider the A2D Skyshark is going to be pretty high on an eventual American line (legit end game potential).

I personally placed the A2D as a tier nine, but it's a bit hard to compare a plane relying on 7000lbs of bombs with one that mounts a 57mm derp. (I don't think the Ki-93 mounted bombs with that gondola either.)



lostwingman #78 Posted 11 March 2014 - 01:53 PM

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View PostRaindrops, on 10 March 2014 - 10:47 PM, said:

I personally placed the A2D as a tier nine, but it's a bit hard to compare a plane relying on 7000lbs of bombs with one that mounts a 57mm derp. (I don't think the Ki-93 mounted bombs with that gondola either.)


Rear part of the gondola behind the 57mm/75mm.


Ground Attack, the new Arty




_Down_Range #79 Posted 11 March 2014 - 10:26 PM

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View PostJ311yfish, on 24 February 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

 

The goal was to identify a chronological progression for both the Army and the Navy, as well as to acknowledge German influence (heavy fighters, jets) in order to provide avenues for advancement that are comparable to other countries.  The tech tree above represents an approach that is reasonable and modest.  Placement at each tier has been determined by careful consideration of chronological development, speed, and armament, according to the sources identified below.

 

Please keep in mind that this is just one possible (though very reasonable) interpretation -- I am not a developer or historian.

 

I am very thankful to the experts in this thread for their targeted advice and enthusiasm.

 

 

GUIDELINES -- these are the rules I followed to derive the tree:

 

SPEEDS -- these are the speeds used to validate tier placement:

 

ARMAMENTS -- to validate tier placement:

 

SOURCES -- specifications, modeling reference images, paint schemes, stories:

 

ALTERNATES -- may be viable but making them fit might be a challenge (see note about premiums below):

 

OMITTED -- for one reason or another these do not fit into the current style of the game:

 

DIVE BOMBERS -- If dive bombers were included as a new category and offered as a parallel track, they might look like this:

 

PREMIUMS -- speculation about what the premiums might be:

 

OTHER CLUES -- based on current content in game:

 

 

 


Not bad but you seem to have forgotten a few others:

Kogiken Plan 1 Type A

Kogiken Plan 1 Type B1

Kogiken Plan 1 Type C   --- also identified as the Ki-124-1... the Japanese version of the German Do 335

Mitsubishi-Payen PA 400

The A7M3 version needs to be made available.. the one with the Ha-43 supercharged engine.

 

... I have included a list I wrote and submitted in suggestions some time ago:

Mitsubishi-Payen PA.400
J1N1 Gekko
Ki-94-I
Ki-94-II
Ki-88
Ki-98 (Ground Attack)
Ki-102 (Ground Attack)
Ki-46-IIIB (Ground Attack)
Ki-45 (Heavy Fighter)
Ki-46-III Kai (Heavy Fighter)
Ki-73 (Heavy Fighter)

Ki-78 (High Speed Fighter)
Ki-64 (Heavy Fighter)
Ki-93 (Heavy Fighter)
Ki-96 (Heavy Fighter)
Kogiken Plan 1 Type A (Heavy Fighter)
Kogiken Plan 1 Type B1 (Heavy Fighter)

Kogiken Plan 1 Type C (Heavy Fighter)( Ki-124-1)  <---- Japan's version of the Do 335
Ki-102 (Heavy Fighter)
Ki-108 (Heavy Fighter)
R2Y Keiun
Ki-61-I
Ki-61-II ( high altitude fighter )
Ki-84-IC (high altitude fighter)
Ki-87-I (high altitude fighter)
Ki-87-II (high altitude fighter)
J2M4 Model 32 Raiden (high altitude fighter)
J2M4 Model 33 Raiden (high altitude fighter)
J2M4 Model 34 Raiden (high altitude fighter)
Ki-100-I
Ki-100-II (high altitude fighter)

Ki-117

Ki-119
N1K1, 2, 3, 4, 5 -J
J3K1 Type 17 (Interceptor)
J6K1 (Interceptor)
Ki-201 (Jet)
J8N-1 Kikka (Jet)
Kayaba Katsuodori (Jet)
Ki-162 (Jet)


Edited by Olde_Crow, 11 March 2014 - 10:37 PM.


J311yfish #80 Posted 12 March 2014 - 12:32 AM

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View PostOlde_Crow, on 11 March 2014 - 11:26 PM, said:

Not bad but you seem to have forgotten a few others:

Kogiken Plan 1 Type A

Kogiken Plan 1 Type B1

Kogiken Plan 1 Type C   --- also identified as the Ki-124-1... the Japanese version of the German Do 335

Mitsubishi-Payen PA 400

The A7M3 version needs to be made available.. the one with the Ha-43 supercharged engine.

 

Kogiken series:

 

Mitsubishi-Payen Pa.400:

 

A7M3:

 

 

I will look closer at the other aircraft in your list.  If you can recommend sources other than Francillon or Dyer I would be glad to check them out.

 

When I began this project I had to set several rules for myself in order to have a clear direction.  One of the rules was that I was going to give preference to high-production aircraft (those that were actually in the war); yet I have discovered that the tech trees of other countries do not necessarily adhere to that rule.  The Russian attack line for example has several IL's that never had more than 10 produced, yet they are there presumably to complete the line and offer an alternate path of progression.  Another example is the Bf 109 Z (only one built, but never flown).  I could certainly use the that precedent (or the J7W3) to devise any tree I want in the name of fun, but then it becomes deeply subjective and not very useful for making predictions.  

 

I don't know how to account for the "fun factor" but I imagine it would involve identifying different themes and trying to work them into the tree, such as:

-- a fighter line that focuses on speed and rate of climb rather than maneuverability

-- a discernible ground attack line

-- a discernible heavy-fighter line or "night fighter" concept if maps are made to be dark ***

-- a dive bomber line if it becomes relevant

 

Anyway, I'll leave the "fun factor" to developers because it is their business and I think they've done a great job so far.  I'm kind of hooked if you haven't noticed.  If nothing else comes of this tech tree adventure then it has certainly been fun just learning about all of the different aircraft.

 

 

 

 

 


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