267 replies to this topic

[lostwingman]

The tree now is a good preliminary tree really. They kind of stretched out the J7W in a pretty apparent, but logical, fashion.

 

I'm confident they'll be able to find stuff and work with people.

[Demon93IT]

lostwingman, on 27 February 2014 - 10:37 PM, said:

The tree now is a good preliminary tree really. They kind of stretched out the J7W in a pretty apparent, but logical, fashion.

 

I'm confident they'll be able to find stuff and work with people.

Well it's fine the branch but it requires something else since there weren't the A6Ms only

[lostwingman]

Demon93IT, on 27 February 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:

Well it's fine the branch but it requires something else since there weren't the A6Ms only

I realize, Japan needs a BnZ line to balance it out.

[Demon93IT]

lostwingman, on 27 February 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

I realize, Japan needs a BnZ line to balance it out.

I don't know many planes able to perform BnZ properly. Most of the Nakajima single engine fighters were known to be agile(see the Ki-43 for example), same goes for the Kawasaki. The only plane which wasn't supposed to be agile was the Raiden(considering only the operational ones). Even the Shiden can't be consider as BnZ since it was a good all round fighter(probably the best in the Japan arsenal). We shall see anyway, personally i hope to see Nakajima first(i really like them) although there's the problem of finding single engine jets for tier IX and X

[lostwingman]

Why does it need to be a single engine jet? Really, we could have a Kitsuka with half the weight of the 262 but roughly the same thrust. I think that would be hilarious.

[Demon93IT]

lostwingman, on 28 February 2014 - 12:57 AM, said:

Why does it need to be a single engine jet? Really, we could have a Kitsuka with half the weight of the 262 but roughly the same thrust. I think that would be hilarious.

Because it seems to be the way to go. There are some issues with this:

1)The 262s were considered as light fighters but they got moved to be heavies. Are they heavies? No because having two engines was the only practical solution to the problem

2)In the leaked US HF branch there's the F2H Banshee, a navy fighter. Is it a heavy? Ironically it is lighter than the F7U, the last remaining twin engine light fighter. Moreover having two engines was a safety feature so, in case one engine failed, the pilot was still able to go back home flying rather than swimming(for this very reason the USN doesn't like the F-35 so much)

 

Sure it would be absurd(since the J7W weights more than the Kikka) but it's a possibility. Moreover since WG had the great idea of reducing the tiers for jets it's rather difficult to find a spot for the Kikka. These are the possibilities:

-Tier VIII light fighter: if the Kikka gets some upgrades it would outclass any tier VIII light fighter currently present. Sure with the Ne-20 isn't not that scary but with better engine and maybe a better armament it would be enough to own the others

-Tier IX light fighter: the stock configuration(the one was tested) is simply too bad for tier IX. It would be eaten alive

-Tier VIII heavy fighter: in this slot it would face the 262, the P.1056 and, eventually, the F5U. Performance wise it would be close enough.

 

I don't like it but i don't see any other solution since, as i said, only the F7U remains as twin engine light fighter.

[lostwingman]

Wait, what? I thought you were arguing against having twin engine fighters at tier IX and X? If not light fighter you could still make it Heavy Fighter because I'm not sure we have a suitable option there, although I really don't see the issue. Apparently also the devs have something called the Ne 430. I have no clue what that is. I wonder how silly of a speed we could get out of it. Ultimately it's going to come down to what aircraft are available overall.

[Demon93IT]

lostwingman, on 28 February 2014 - 02:16 AM, said:

Wait, what? I thought you were arguing against having twin engine fighters at tier IX and X? If not light fighter you could still make it Heavy Fighter because I'm not sure we have a suitable option there, although I really don't see the issue. Apparently also the devs have something called the Ne 430. I have no clue what that is. I wonder how silly of a speed we could get out of it. Ultimately it's going to come down to what aircraft are available overall.

I don't have any problems what so ever with twin engine fighters, the problem is the trend WG has regarding them. In any case we shall see, i don't think WG would release another branch for Japan fairly soon.

[J311yfish]

Operational locations

-- this post will attempt to catalog the operational locations of aircraft in order to (potentially) reveal previously unseen connections.

-- this might be one way to track field modifications.

 

Mitsubishi (Navy)

Tier	Aircraft	Operational location
I	Nakajima A2N	also used by the Naval aerobatic team of Genda, Okamura and Nomura (Mikesh, 226)
II	Nakajima A4N	"At the time of the Sino-Japanese conflict ... used for air defense over Japanese occupied bases .. short-range scout ... close air support ..." (Mikesh, 232)
III	Mitsubishi A5M	Carriers:  Akagi, Hosho, Kaga, Ryujo and Zuiho. 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, Oita, Ominato, Omura, Sasebo and Yokosuka Kokutais.
IV	Mitsubishi A6M1
V	Mitsubishi A6M2       Mitsubishi J2M	Carriers:  All wartime carriers. 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 12th, 202nd, 204th, 205th, 221st, 251st, 252nd, 261st, 281st, 302nd, 331st, 341st, 343rd, 381st, 601st, 652nd, 653rd, 721st, Genzan, Konoike, Oita, Tainan, Tsukuba, Yatabe and Southern Island Kokutais.   302nd, 332nd, 352nd, 381st, Genzan and Tainan Kokutais. [see A6M2, N1K2-J, J1N1]
VI	Mitsubishi A6M5
VII	Mitsubishi A7M
VIII	Mitsubishi J8M
IX
X

Data: Francillon

 

 

Kawanishi / Kyushu (Navy)

Tier	Aircraft	Operational location
I
II
III
IV
V	Kawanishi N1K1	Otsu Kokutai
VI	Kawanishi N1K1-J
VII	Kawanishi N1K2-J	201st, 341st, 343rd and Genzan Kokutais. [see A6M2 and J2M]
VIII	Kyushu J7W1
IX	Kyushu J7W2
X	Kyushu J7W3

Data: Francillon

 

 

Aichi / Kusho / Kugisho / Nakajima (Navy) -- Dive Bombers / Torpedo Bombers

Tier	Aircraft	Operational location
I
II	Aichi D1A1     Kusho B4Y	Carriers: Akagi, Kaga and Ryjuo 12th, 13th, 14th and 15th Kokutais   Carriers: Akagi, Hosho, Kaga, Ryujo and Soryu 13th and 15th Kokutais
III	Aichi D1A2   Nakajima B5N1	Carriers: all Japanese wartime aircraft carriers 601st, 653rd, 931st, Himeji, Omura and Usa Kokutais
IV	Aichi D3A     Nakajima B5N2	Carriers: Kaga, Akagi, Ryujo, Soryu, Hiryu, Shokaku, Zuikaku, Shoha, Zuiho, Chitose, Chiyoda, etc. 12th, 14th, 31st, 33rd, 40th, 541st and 582nd Kokutais.
V	Kusho D4Y     Aichi M6A   Nakajima B6N	Carriers: Chitose, Chiyoda, Hiyo, Junyo, Shinyo, Shokaku, Soryu, Taiyo, Unryu, Unyo, Zuikaku. 121st, 131st, 503rd, 601st, 634th, 653rd, 721st, Southwest Islands and Yokosuka Kokutais.   I-400-class submarine-carrier   Carriers: Hiyo, Junyo, Shinyo, Shokaku, Taiyo, Unryu, Unyo and Zuikaku. 551st, 601st, 653rd, 705th, 752nd, 903rd and Southern Kokutais.
VI	Aichi B7A   Kugisho P1Y1	752nd and Yokosuka Kokutais.   522nd, 752nd, 761st, 762nd and Yokosuka Kokutais. [see Mitsubishi Ki-67]
VII	Aichi S1A   Kugisho P1Y3   Kugisho MXY7 Ohka
VIII	Kugisho Tenga    Kawanishi Baika   Nakajima Kikka (e.)
IX	Kugisho R2Y2   Nakajima Kikka (l.)
X	Kugisho R2Y3   Fuji T1F2

Data: Francillon

 

 

 

Nakajima / Rikugun (Army)

Tier	Aircraft	Operational location
I	Nakajima Type 91
II	Nakajima Ki-11
III	Nakajima Ki-27	1st, 4th, 5th, 9th, 11th, 13th, 18th, 21st, 24th, 33rd, 50th, 54th, 59th, 63rd, 64th, 70th, 77th, 78th, 85th, 87th, 144th and 246th Sentais. 9th, 10th, 28th, 47th and 84th Dokuritsu Dai Shijugu Chutais. 17th, 27th and 32nd Kyo-iku Hikotais 5th Lensei Hikotai. Akeno Army Fighter Training School.
IV	Nakajima Ki-43-I	1st, 11th, 13th, 17th, 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st, 23rd, 24th, 25th, 26th, 30th, 31st, 33rd, 48th, 50th, 54th, 59th, 63rd, 64th, 65th, 71st, 72nd, 73rd, 77th, 101st, 102nd, 103rd, 104th, 112th, 203rd, 204th, 248th Sentais. 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 13th, 14th, 17th, 19th, 24th, 26th, 47th and 71st Dokuritsu Dai Shijugo Chutais. Akeno, Hitachi and Kumagaya Fighter Training Schools.
V	Nakajima Ki-44-I       Nakajima Ki-43-II	9th, 22nd, 29th, 47th, 70th, 85th, 87th and 246th Sentais. 47th Dokuritsu Dai Shijugo Chutai. Akeno and Hitachi Fighter Training Schools.
VI	Nakajima Ki-44-II   Nakajima Ki-84-I	1st, 11th, 13th, 14th, 20th, 22nd, 25th, 29th, 47th, 50th, 51st, 52nd, 64th, 71st, 72nd, 73rd, 85th, 101st, 102nd, 103rd, 104th, 111th, 112th, 200th and 246th Sentais. 24th Dokuritsu Dai Shijugo Chutai.
VII	Kayaba Katsuodori     Nakajima Ki-84-II
VIII	Mitsubishi Ki-200   Nakajima Ki-87
IX	Rikugun Ki-202
X

Data: Francillon

 

 

Kawasaki / Tachikawa (Army)

Tier	Aircraft	Operational location
I	Kawasaki Type 92	"... interceptor role in Manchuria and northern China from 1932-1935 ..." (Mikesh, 153)
II	Kawasaki Ki-10	1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 11th and 13th Rentais.   4th, 9th, 33rd, 59th, 64th and 77th Sentais.   Akeno Fighter Training School.
III	Kawasaki Ki-28
IV	Kawasaki Ki-60
V	Kawasaki Ki-61-I	17th, 18th, 19th, 23rd, 26th, 28th, 37th, 55th, 56th, 59th, 65th, 68th, 78th, 105th and 244ths Sentais. 23rd and 28th Dokuritsu Dai Shijugo Chutais. 8th Kyo-iku Hikotai 5th, 11th, 16th and 18th Lensei Hikotais. Akeno Fighter Training School.
VI	Kawasaki Ki-61-II
VII	Kawasaki Ki-100
VIII	Tachikawa Ki-94-II
IX
X

Data: Francillon

 

 

Kawasaki / Tachikawa / Nakajima (Army)

Tier	Aircraft	Operational location
I
II
III
IV	Kawasaki Ki-45
V	Kawasaki Ki-45 KAI	4th, 5th, 13th, 16th, 21st, 27th, 45th, 53rd, 65th and 70th Sentais. [see Ki-32, Ki-48]   25th and 71st Dokuritsu Hiko Chutais. Akeno Fighter Training School.
VI	Kawasaki Ki-64   Kawasaki Ki-66
VII	Mitsubishi Ki-83   Kawasaki Ki-102	28th and 45th Sentais. 27th Dokuritsu Dai Shijugo Chutai.
VIII	Tachikawa Ki-94-I   Rikugun Ki-93
IX	Nakajima Ki-201
X	Nakajima Ki-201-II

Data: Francillon

 

 

---

 

Alternates

 

Operational alternates only:

 

Tier	Aircraft	Operational location
I
II	Kyushu Q1W
III	Mitsubishi Ki-30     Kawasaki Ki-32   Tachikawa Ki-36	6th, 16th, 31st, 32nd, 35th and 90th Sentais 82nd and 87th Dokuritsu Hiko Chutais   3rd, 6th, 10th, 35th, 45th, 65th and 75th Sentais [see Kawasaki Ki-45, Ki-48]   29th and 44th Sentais [see Ki-44, Ki-84] 17th, 44th, 45th, 66th and 74th Dokuritsui Dai Shijugo Chutais Korean Command, Central Command, 7th and 8th Ground Support Units Kumagaya, Mito, Tachiarai and Utsonomiya Army Flying Schools (Ki-55)
IV	Mitsubishi Ki-51	6th, 27th, 32nd, 44th, 65th, 66th, 67th and 83rd Sentais 41st, 45th, 47th, 48th, 49th, 52nd, 53rd, 71st, 73rd, 83rd, 89th, 90th and 91st Dokuritsu Hiko Chutais 4th Kokugun Shireibu Hikodan Koku Shikan Gakko (Army Air Academy)
V	Nakajima A6M2-N   Kawanishi N1K1   Aichi E16A   Nakajima J1N1   Mitsubishi Ki-46-II	Yokosuka, Yokohama and Otsu Kokutais; 5th, 36th and 452nd Kokutais.   Otsu Kokutai   301st, 634th and Yokosuka Kokutais   133rd, 141st, 153rd, 251st, 302nd and 322nd Kokutais [see Mitsubishi A6M2 and J2M]   JAAF: [many] JNAF: "regular missions over Northern Australia from their bases on Timor" (Francillon, 172)
VI
VII	Mitsubishi Ki-46-III KAI, IIIb, IVb       Mitsubishi Ki-109	28th and 106th Sentais [see Kawasaki Ki-102] 4th, 16th, 81st, 82nd and 83rd Dokuritsui Dai Shijugo Chutais 16th Dokuritsu Hikotai     107th Sentai
VIII
IX	Kawasaki/Lockheed F-94C
X	Mitsubishi/NA F-86F

Data: Francillon

 

 

Omitted

 

Not all omitted aircraft are accounted for here -- this is just a staging area to see how certain aircraft fit into those already established

 

Tier	Aircraft	Operational location
I
II
III	Nakajima B5N	Carriers: All Japanese wartime aircraft carriers. 601st, 653rd, 931st, Himeji, Omura and Usa Kokutais.
IV	Kawasaki Ki-48	3rd, 6th, 16th, 27th, 31st, 32nd, 34th, 45th, 65th, 75th, 90th, 95th and 208th Sentais 82nd Dokuritsu Dai Shijugo Chutai Hokota Army Light Bomber Flying School
V	Mitsubishi G4M     Nakajima B6N	1st, 4th, 702nd, 705th, 706th, 721st, 722nd, 751st, 752nd, 753rd, 755th, 761st, 762nd, 763rd, 765th, 951st, 1021st, Chitose, Genzan, Kanoya, Kisarazu, Misawa, Takao and Yokosuka Kokutais   Carriers: Hiyo, Junyo, Shinyo, Shokaku, Taiyo, Unryu, Unyo and Zuikaku. 551st, 601st, 653rd, 705th, 752nd, 903rd and Southern Island Kokutais
VI	Mitsubishi Ki-67	JAAF:  7th, 14th, 16th, 60th, 61st, 62nd, 74th, 98th and 110th Sentais Hamamatsu Army Bomber Flying School   JNAF: 762nd Kokutai [see Kugisho P1Y]
VII	Nakajima C6N	132nd, 343rd, 601st, 653rd and 762nd Kokutais. [see also A6M2, D4Y, Ki-67, G5M]
VIII
IX
X

Data: Francillon

 

Edited by J311yfish, 04 January 2016 - 01:22 AM.

[Commander_Rasseru]

Should we talk about service ceiling? Nice to see a chart with that on it.

[Demon93IT]

Commander_Rasseru, on 28 February 2014 - 10:02 PM, said:

Should we talk about service ceiling? Nice to see a chart with that on it.

Well the ceiling ingame is quite different. For example the J7W ingame is quite bad at high altitude even though it was designed to be a high altitude interceptor.

[Commander_Rasseru]

Has anyone looked on the EU forums for what information they researched?

[Demon93IT]

Commander_Rasseru, on 04 March 2014 - 03:13 PM, said:

Has anyone looked on the EU forums for what information they researched?

I did some research about them(i posted few topics some time ago). I've posted what i've done in previous posts ^^. I'm not aware if other EU players did something similar though, i can check

[J311yfish]

If this article is accurate, then there are 5 avenues for Japanese jet engine design:

 

1) turbojets inspired by German design -- leading to the Ne-10, Ne-12, Ne-120, Ne-130, Ne-230, Ne-330 engines (Kyushu J7W, Nakajima Kitsuka, Yokosuka R2Y2, Kawanishi K-200)

2) Campini-type jet engines inspired by Italian design -- leading to the Ishikawajima Tsu-11 engine (Yokosuka MXY9)

3) Bi-fuel rocket engines inspired by German design (Me-163) -- (Mitsubishi J8M)

4) pulse jet engines inspired by German (V1 flying bomb, He-162 Volksjager) -- leading to Maru KA 10 engine (Kawanishi Baika)

5) Pescara-type free piston compressor design -- no information

 

The most promising avenue with respect to Tier IX and Tier X for this game appears to be the turbojets, obviously.  So considering what is in game now:

 

Tier IX:  J7W2 -- Ne-130, Ne-230, Ne-330

Tier X:  J7W3 -- Ne-440

 

And looking at where engines in that line of development were used (or planned):

 

Nakajima Kitsuka -- Ne-10, Ne-12, Ne-120 (x2)

Nakajima Ki-201 -- Ne-130, Ne-230 (x2)

Yokosuka R2Y2 -- Ne-330 (x2)

 

A reasonable proposal would be:

 

Tier VIII: J7W1 // Nakajima Kitsuka

Tier XI:   J7W2 // Nakajima Ki-201 // Yokosuka R2Y2

Tier X:    J7W3 // Nakajima Ki-201 KAI // Yokosuka R2Y3

 

That would give fighter, fighter-bomber, and attack aircraft at Tier IX and X, and basically complete the upper end of the Japanese tech tree.

 

 

 

[Commander_Rasseru]

Good news! I found a new Japanese Jet that could be in Tier IX and X
 

Fuji T-1

General characteristics

• Crew: 2
• Length: 12.12 m (39 ft 9 in)
• Wingspan: 10.50 m (34 ft 5 in)
• Height: 4.08 m (13 ft 5 in)
• Wing area: 22.22 m² (239.2 sq ft)
• Aspect ratio: 4.96:1
• Airfoil: K-561/K-569
• Empty weight: 2,420 kg (5,335 lb)
• Gross weight: 4,150 kg (9,149 lb) clean
• Max takeoff weight: 5,000 kg (11,023 lb) (with external tanks)
• Fuel capacity: 1,400 L (308 Imp Gallons)
• Powerplant: 1 × Bristol Siddeley Orpheus Mk 805 turbojet, 18 kN (4,000 lbf) thrust

Performance

• Maximum speed: 925 km/h (575 mph; 499 kn) at 6,100 m (20,000 ft)
• Cruising speed: 620 km/h (385 mph; 335 kn) at 9,150 m (30,000 ft)
• Range: 1,300 km (808 mi; 702 nmi) (internal fuel)
• Ferry range: 1,950 km (1,212 mi; 1,053 nmi)
• Service ceiling: 14,400 m (47,244 ft) ^[5]
• Rate of climb: 33 m/s (6,500 ft/min)

Armament

• Guns: Provision for 1 × 12.7 mm Browning M53-2 machine gun in nose
• Hardpoints: 2 with provisions to carry combinations of:
  • Missiles: 2 × AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles
  • Bombs: 2 × 340 kg (750 lb) bombs
  • Other: 2 × 455 L (100 Imp Gallon) drop tanks
     

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuji_T-1

Don't forget the Japanese version of the F-86 Sabre. Even that import plane and could be odd? It is a big part of Japanese Jet Aviation. It could be different from the American one.

I found some planes that are not on your list.
Tachikawa Ki-94 https://en.wikipedia...Tachikawa_Ki-94
Kawasaki Ki-100 https://en.wikipedia...Kawasaki_Ki-100
Kawanishi N1K https://en.wikipedia...Kawanishi_N1K-J
 

 

[Demon93IT]

Commander_Rasseru, on 05 March 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

Good news! I found a new Japanese Jet that could be in Tier IX and X
 

Fuji T-1

General characteristics

• Crew: 2
• Length: 12.12 m (39 ft 9 in)
• Wingspan: 10.50 m (34 ft 5 in)
• Height: 4.08 m (13 ft 5 in)
• Wing area: 22.22 m² (239.2 sq ft)
• Aspect ratio: 4.96:1
• Airfoil: K-561/K-569
• Empty weight: 2,420 kg (5,335 lb)
• Gross weight: 4,150 kg (9,149 lb) clean
• Max takeoff weight: 5,000 kg (11,023 lb) (with external tanks)
• Fuel capacity: 1,400 L (308 Imp Gallons)
• Powerplant: 1 × Bristol Siddeley Orpheus Mk 805 turbojet, 18 kN (4,000 lbf) thrust

Performance

• Maximum speed: 925 km/h (575 mph; 499 kn) at 6,100 m (20,000 ft)
• Cruising speed: 620 km/h (385 mph; 335 kn) at 9,150 m (30,000 ft)
• Range: 1,300 km (808 mi; 702 nmi) (internal fuel)
• Ferry range: 1,950 km (1,212 mi; 1,053 nmi)
• Service ceiling: 14,400 m (47,244 ft) ^[5]
• Rate of climb: 33 m/s (6,500 ft/min)

Armament

• Guns: Provision for 1 × 12.7 mm Browning M53-2 machine gun in nose
• Hardpoints: 2 with provisions to carry combinations of:
  • Missiles: 2 × AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles
  • Bombs: 2 × 340 kg (750 lb) bombs
  • Other: 2 × 455 L (100 Imp Gallon) drop tanks
     

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuji_T-1

Don't forget the Japanese version of the F-86 Sabre. Even that import plane and could be odd? It is a big part of Japanese Jet Aviation. It could be different from the American one.

I found some planes that are not on your list.
Tachikawa Ki-94 https://en.wikipedia...Tachikawa_Ki-94
Kawasaki Ki-100 https://en.wikipedia...Kawasaki_Ki-100
Kawanishi N1K https://en.wikipedia...Kawanishi_N1K-J
 

 

The T-1 was designed and built as trainer, it wasn't supposed to fight(as its armament suggests). The only plausible tier X for the IJA is the Sabre, unless there's a Japanese project i'm not aware of able to fit in that tier. Still remains the problem for tier IX.

 

As the other planes are concerned in my own preliminary work i considered all three of them(the N1K and the Ki-100 are considered in his). The problem is that it's possibile to divide the IJA branch in two per manufacturer(Nakajima or Kawasaki) but it would increase the number of problems:

-Kawasaki hasn't anything suitable for tier IV(as far as i'm aware of)

-With two branches there will be problems regarding the slots to fill at tier IX and X(four rather than two).

 

In any case personally i would focus on Nakajima first since it's slightly easier. I wonder if WG would do the same or if they would mix the two.

 

J311yfish, on 05 March 2014 - 12:56 AM, said:

If this article is accurate, then there are 5 avenues for Japanese jet engine design:

 

1) turbojets inspired by German design -- leading to the Ne-10, Ne-12, Ne-120, Ne-130, Ne-230, Ne-330 engines (Kyushu J7W, Nakajima Kitsuka, Yokosuka R2Y2, Kawanishi K-200)

2) Campini-type jet engines inspired by Italian design -- leading to the Ishikawajima Tsu-11 engine (Yokosuka MXY9)

3) Bi-fuel rocket engines inspired by German design (Me-163) -- (Mitsubishi J8M)

4) pulse jet engines inspired by German (V1 flying bomb, He-162 Volksjager) -- leading to Maru KA 10 engine (Kawanishi Baika)

5) Pescara-type free piston compressor design -- no information

 

The most promising avenue with respect to Tier IX and Tier X for this game appears to be the turbojets, obviously.  So considering what is in game now:

 

Tier IX:  J7W2 -- Ne-130, Ne-230, Ne-330

Tier X:  J7W3 -- Ne-440

 

And looking at where engines in that line of development were used (or planned):

 

Nakajima Kitsuka -- Ne-10, Ne-12, Ne-120 (x2)

Nakajima Ki-201 -- Ne-130, Ne-230 (x2)

Yokosuka R2Y2 -- Ne-330 (x2)

 

A reasonable proposal would be:

 

Tier VIII: J7W1 // Nakajima Kitsuka

Tier XI:   J7W2 // Nakajima Ki-201 // Yokosuka R2Y2

Tier X:    J7W3 // Nakajima Ki-201 KAI // Yokosuka R2Y3

 

That would give fighter, fighter-bomber, and attack aircraft at Tier IX and X, and basically complete the upper end of the Japanese tech tree.

 

 

 

2)The Campini engine is unlikely to be present ingame since it is a piston engine moving a compressor. As thrust is concerned isn't great, as it was shown by the C.C.2(or Campini N.1, it's the same plane).

4)The He-162 used the BMW turbojet engines, at least as far as i'm aware of. Only the Japanese version used the pulse jet on it.

 

A question: was the R2Y armed? With guns i mean. As far as i recall it wasn't but probably i'm wrong(i don't have much information regarding it). As the rest is concerned is great, good job!

Edited by Demon93IT, 05 March 2014 - 09:01 AM.

[J311yfish]

Commander_Rasseru, on 05 March 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

I found some planes that are not on your list.
Tachikawa Ki-94 https://en.wikipedia...Tachikawa_Ki-94
Kawasaki Ki-100 https://en.wikipedia...Kawasaki_Ki-100
Kawanishi N1K https://en.wikipedia...Kawanishi_N1K-J

 

 

Tachikawa Ki-94 

Both versions are on the alternate list (twin-boom Ki-94-I and Ki-94-II monoplane).

 

Kawasaki Ki-100

This is on the the proposed tech tree at Tier V as a development of the Ki-61.

 

Kawanishi N1K's

These are on the proposed tech tree at Tier VI and VII based on their speeds and engine upgrades.  I will rename them to N1K1-J and N1K2-J so that they are not mistaken for floatplanes.

 

 

There are difficult decisions to make with so many interesting aircraft available, yet I have tried not to supplant developers' judgement with my own.  My goal has been simply to map it out in a logical manner so that they can make decisions about how to implement it without being overwhelmed by the research aspect (see "Guidelines").  I have not ventured to explore imported jets because I think that the best case should be made for native development first ("begin at the beginning").

 

To be fair, a developer could look at the ideas presented here and say, "well, that is all very interesting, but how can I make it fun?"  That is why I think that the next step, after researching the tech tree and viable alternatives, would be to identify the flight characteristics and themes of each avenue.  What characterizes the Nakajima line?  What makes it an exciting alternative to the maneuverable Mitsubishi?  What about the muddy water between the "heavy fighters" and "ground attack" roles?  I don't have the answers to those questions (yet) but I would like to keep going.  I am thankful that there are others that share my enthusiasm for the history and the game.

 

Here are some sources that you all might appreciate:

Edwin Dyer's website (last updated 2002)

Edwin Dyer's book 1 (2009) -- table of contents here

Edwin Dyer's book 2 (August 2014) -- table of contents here 

 

I have also added sources to the original post for pictures, paint schemes, etc.

 

 

Demon93IT, on 05 March 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

A question: was the R2Y armed? With guns i mean. As far as i recall it wasn't but probably i'm wrong(i don't have much information regarding it). As the rest is concerned is great, good job!

 

I have not yet seen any listing of armament for the R2Y2.  The best information so far is here in which he claims development shifted from a reconnaissance role to an attack role.  There are also some notes here (2010) by Edwin Dyer posting as "Hikoki1946".  There may be more information in his 2009 book, which I hope to get later this week, will update.

 

 

 

 

[J311yfish]

Update:    (old ----> new)

-- added jets at Tier VIII, IX, X according to engine lineage and J7W2 precedent

-- rearranged the tree more strictly across Navy/Army lines for these reasons:

• to make jet relationship more apparent
• to resolve the muddy overlap of heavy fighter / ground-attack roles
• to indicate the Nakajima IJA line as the major parallel track from which smaller specializations can be made.
• The new structure also makes it easier to incorporate other aircraft (if more are needed) based on their armament lineage, particularly at lower tiers.

[Commander_Rasseru]

Demon93IT, on 05 March 2014 - 02:55 AM, said:

The T-1 was designed and built as trainer, it wasn't supposed to fight(as its armament suggests). The only plausible tier X for the IJA is the Sabre, unless there's a Japanese project i'm not aware of able to fit in that tier. Still remains the problem for tier IX.

It maybe not a tier X.... But maybe could be a VIII or IX for one branch tree that needs a jet. I would also think it would be good at maneuverability. Armament could be changed to even with their own tier. If the Japanese wasn't restricted with their military after the war. They might load other armaments and not uncommon too add new weapons to a current squadrons that were never design to carry it. Trainer are unlimited with what kinds armaments could be fitted. Because they were used a test beds sometimes. Note that the 2nd crew member could be useful in other roles.

Sabre is a good plausible and maybe have characteristics changes than the US one.

[Demon93IT]

Commander_Rasseru, on 05 March 2014 - 10:25 PM, said:

It maybe not a tier X.... But maybe could be a VIII or IX for one branch tree that needs a jet. I would also think it would be good at maneuverability. Armament could be changed to even with their own tier. If the Japanese wasn't restricted with their military after the war. They might load other armaments and not uncommon too add new weapons to a current squadrons that were never design to carry it. Trainer are unlimited with what kinds armaments could be fitted. Because they were used a test beds sometimes. Note that the 2nd crew member could be useful in other roles.

Sabre is a good plausible and maybe have characteristics changes than the US one.

Well it would become a what-if plane then. We'll see anyway.

 

As for the Sabre i don't know the differences but they should be either very similar or identical