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[spoiler] what the Japanese tech tree could look like

Japan Mitsubishi Aichi Kawanishi Kyushu Kawasaki Nakajima Tachikawa Mansyu Rikugun

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J311yfish #301 Posted 08 May 2019 - 02:25 AM

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View PostJ311yfish, on 08 March 2018 - 10:18 AM, said:

 

241,858 views since creation 02/24/2014 as of 03/08/2018 = 1,474 days = 164 views/day = 6.84 views/hour average over the lifetime of the thread -- still going strong!

 

285,031 views since creation 02/24/2014 as of 05/07/2019 = 1,899 days = 150 views/day = 6.25 views/hour average over the lifetime of the thread = still going strong!

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J311yfish #302 Posted 25 May 2019 - 08:34 PM

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View PostJ311yfish, on 22 May 2019 - 06:48 PM, said:

 

The adversary of the F6F is not the A6M, even though A6M was produced in great quantity.  Here is an approximation of sequential aircraft that are so far not in game:

 

Tier U.S.A. Japan
VI Grumman F6F-3 Hellcat (10/1942) Mitsubishi J2M Raiden ("Jack") (05/1942)
VII Grumman F6F-5 Hellcat (04/1944) Kawanishi N1K1-J Shiden ("George") (12/1942+)
VIII Grumman F8F Bearcat (08/1944) Kawanishi N1K2-J Shiden Kai ("George") (12/1943+)
IX Grumman F9F Panther (11/1947) Nakajima Kikka (08/1945+)
X Grumman F9F-6 Cougar (09/1951) Kugisho R2Y2 Keiun (1945+)

 

The A6M1 on the other hand was first flown 04/1939, just over 3 years prior to XF6F-1 (06/1942).

 

Also by the way -- the popular (wrong) historical account is that an A6M was recovered intact 07/1942 (the "Akutan Zero") and restored for flight testing, and from this the 'secrets of the Zero' were discovered, and the F6F was therefore designed accordingly.  That was propaganda meant to bolster the morale of American pilots.  The F6F coincidentally made its first flight the previous month 06/1942.

 

The less known (secret for many years) historical account is that an A6M was recovered 6 months before Pearl Harbor, restored to flight status by a German mechanic working with the Flying Tigers (Gerhard Neumann, who would later go on to be head of General Electric).  The 'secrets of the Zero' were known by Chennault and his men before America officially entered the war, and even then the knowledge was a closely guarded secret.  The F6F prototype was ordered around the same time 06/1941, but to what degree it benefited from the knowledge, if at all, is debatable.

 

Also, American involvement in China against Japan did not begin after Pearl Harbor, but can actually be traced all the way back to 1932 with American pilot Robert Short in a Boeing P-12, and further over the years with CAMCO.  Further reading.

 

Related:

http://forum.worldofwarplanes.com/index.php?/topic/49715-why-isnt-the-grumman-f6f-hellcat-avalible/page__pid__691126#entry691126

http://forum.worldofwarplanes.com/index.php?/topic/54528-j2m-raiden/page__pid__759067#entry759067

http://forum.worldofwarplanes.com/index.php?/topic/49229-news-ru-wowp-developers-qa-20170523/page__pid__684614#entry684614

 

 

^ from (another) thread on Grumman F6F Hellcat.


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Historical scenarios:  Spanish Civil War (skins•  Invasion of Poland  •  Winter War  •  Continuation War

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J311yfish #303 Posted 11 January 2020 - 03:16 AM

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Historical scenarios:  Spanish Civil War (skins•  Invasion of Poland  •  Winter War  •  Continuation War

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vcharng #304 Posted 15 February 2020 - 01:45 AM

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A few suggestions on what we have now on the first page:

1. Ki-109 "could" fill the gap between Ki-93 and Ki-201. It's a 75mm heavy fighter... However, I'm not sure how it'll fare in the game's meta... perhaps we should reverse what we did to the Ki-93 and make the Ki-109 an GAA.

2. Kikka is considered an attacker in IJN. R2Y2 is further NOT planned to be armed with any guns at all (bombs only). Putting them behind the "B-type fighter" (Navy designation for land-based defensive fighters) would be weird.

3. There's such a thing as A8M after A7M, known as 次期甲戰鬪機 (next generation A-type fighter, i.e. "next generation carrier-based fighter"), it is featured in WOWS, so maybe we can try having that after A7M.

4. A6M4 is essentially an A6M2 with belt-fed (instead of drum-fed) 20mm guns. It'll be hard to make it worthwhile to go one tier higher. I'd suggest using "Zero fighter Model 33" (No A6MX designation available) to replace it. Model 33 is a Model 32 with turbocharged engine.



J311yfish #305 Posted 25 February 2020 - 08:47 PM

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View Postvcharng, on 14 February 2020 - 08:45 PM, said:

A few suggestions on what we have now on the first page:

1. Ki-109 "could" fill the gap between Ki-93 and Ki-201. It's a 75mm heavy fighter... However, I'm not sure how it'll fare in the game's meta... perhaps we should reverse what we did to the Ki-93 and make the Ki-109 an GAA.

2. Kikka is considered an attacker in IJN. R2Y2 is further NOT planned to be armed with any guns at all (bombs only). Putting them behind the "B-type fighter" (Navy designation for land-based defensive fighters) would be weird.

3. There's such a thing as A8M after A7M, known as 次期甲戰鬪機 (next generation A-type fighter, i.e. "next generation carrier-based fighter"), it is featured in WOWS, so maybe we can try having that after A7M.

4. A6M4 is essentially an A6M2 with belt-fed (instead of drum-fed) 20mm guns. It'll be hard to make it worthwhile to go one tier higher. I'd suggest using "Zero fighter Model 33" (No A6MX designation available) to replace it. Model 33 is a Model 32 with turbocharged engine.

 

You are welcome to substantiate any or all of the above claims with verifiable primary sources.  Without sources, you might as well be asking for a Flying Spaghetti Monster at each and every tier.  Japan was working on Flying Spaghetti Monsters at the end of the war to counter the B-29 threat, and had the pasta finished in time -- oh man, we'd all be speaking Japanese today.  Don't believe me?  It's on the internet somewhere, really, go find the source to verify my claims!


Main tech tree projects:   JAPAN    UNITED KINGDOM  •  UNITED STATES    GERMANY  •  USSR  // aircraft to China

Europe tech tree projects:  ITALY    FRANCE    SWEDEN    Finland (skins•  Poland  •  International  //  Retired projects:  China    Brazil

Historical scenarios:  Spanish Civil War (skins•  Invasion of Poland  •  Winter War  •  Continuation War

Map proposals:   Panama Canal    Great Wall of China    Cliffs of Dover   //  Clan:  343 Kokutai  //  Tutorial:  How to ignore forum posts and signatures


vcharng #306 Posted 05 May 2020 - 09:52 AM

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View PostJ311yfish, on 25 February 2020 - 08:47 PM, said:

 

You are welcome to substantiate any or all of the above claims with verifiable primary sources.  Without sources, you might as well be asking for a Flying Spaghetti Monster at each and every tier.  Japan was working on Flying Spaghetti Monsters at the end of the war to counter the B-29 threat, and had the pasta finished in time -- oh man, we'd all be speaking Japanese today.  Don't believe me?  It's on the internet somewhere, really, go find the source to verify my claims!

What kind of source do you want? Just to prove that it exists? or you want some real solid blueprints?

if Japanese Wiki works:

 

Ki-109: https://ja.wikipedia.../wiki/キ109_(航空機)

this aircraft is also available in WarThunder.

 

Kikka:

https://ja.wikipedia...rg/wiki/橘花_(航空機)

The classification is 攻撃機 (attacker), it is further categorized as 特殊攻撃機 (special attacker, NOT in the context of kamikaze aircraft)

Keiun: (R2Y)

https://ja.wikipedia...rg/wiki/景雲_(航空機)

The specification for R2Y2 is on the right column, saying 景雲改.

On the "War thunder" part below the page it says "計画にはなかった、五式機関砲が4門装備されている" ([The WT counterpart is] armed with 4x Type 5 autocannon that wasn't part of the IRL plan).

 

A8M:

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%BA%8C%E5%8D%81%E8%A9%A6%E7%94%B2%E6%88%A6%E9%97%98%E6%A9%9F

I can't find the actual Jiki-kou, this is PROBABLY the same thing.

It's known as "Prototype 20 A-type fighter" (二十試甲戦闘機), but this, just like A8M, may or may not have been the official name.

 

A6M4 and Zero Model 33

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%9B%B6%E5%BC%8F%E8%89%A6%E4%B8%8A%E6%88%A6%E9%97%98%E6%A9%9F%E3%81%AE%E6%B4%BE%E7%94%9F%E5%9E%8B#%E3%81%9D%E3%81%AE%E4%BB%96%E3%81%AE%E6%B4%BE%E7%94%9F%E5%9E%8B

"零戦二一型の20mm機銃をベルト給弾式の九九式20mm機銃四型に変更した零戦四一型。計画のみ"

(Zero fighter Model 41 was a model that changes Model 21's drum-fed 20mm MGs into Type 99 Model 4 which is belt-fed. Exist only in plans"

"三二型に 排気タービン過給器を搭載して高高度性能の改善を図った型。海軍の命名規則に従えば三三型とされたはずである。"

(There was a plan to fit a turbocharger to Model 32 in order to improve its high-altitude performance. According to IJN's naming pattern, it would be referred to as Model 33)

 

 

And if you want better sources, well, for Ki-109 refer to the Japanese website I gave you during the "Ki-93 is a GAA and not HF" thread, it also mentioned Ki-109.

As for the rest....

There should be some good sources about Kikka and A8M, but for R2Y2, A6M4 and Zero M33 their status is about the same as J7W2 current in game.

Historically J7W2 only existed in a few "spoken comments" during IJN discussions, and J7W3, just like "Ki-162-II", is entirely fictional.

 


Edited by vcharng, 05 May 2020 - 04:17 PM.






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