460 airspeed
11x7.7mm for 102 firepower
Approx. 361 maneuverability
Optimal Altitude 1050 meters, Climb rate 26.4 m/s
860 HP
How does it look?
460 airspeed
11x7.7mm for 102 firepower
Approx. 361 maneuverability
Optimal Altitude 1050 meters, Climb rate 26.4 m/s
860 HP
How does it look?
pyantoryng, on 27 November 2017 - 02:19 PM, said:
460 airspeed
11x7.7mm for 102 firepower
Approx. 361 maneuverability
Optimal Altitude 1050 meters, Climb rate 26.4 m/s
860 HP
How does it look?
-- "460 airspeed" -- could make sense for Tier V, approximating A6M2
-- "11x7.7mm for 102 firepower" -- does not make sense; and bombs not specifically mentioned
-- "361 maneuverability" + "26.5 m/s climb rate" + "Optimum Altitude 1050m" + "860hp" -- suggest low-mid-altitude bomber
-- the image itself shows the aircraft at low altitude close to the water, viewed from above
-- the image size 1049x675 is unusual, suggesting that it was cropped
-- usually https://gamemodels3d.com/ has an indication of new aircraft; so far Ki-57 does not show up
-- There is no mention by Francillon of a Ki-57 configured in this way
-- There is no mention by Dyer of a Ki-57 configured this way
-- If everything is true and historical in nature, then possible sources are 'Meatballs and Dead Birds' by Gallagher (pictures of aircraft found at the end of the war), or 'Japanese Experimental Transport Aircraft of the Pacific War' by Picarella, or a perhaps source in Japanese indicating a one-off or late-war conversion for a specific mission or purpose (there are many instances of this).
Anyway, curious indeed!
Edited by J311yfish, 28 November 2017 - 01:37 AM.
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Mitsubishi Ki-57 -- "Topsy" -- Paratroop and Special Forces Operations
-- "With the establishment of the 1st Raiding Regiment and the imminent establishment of the 2nd Raiding Regiment at the end of 1941, the compliment of aircraft to carry them into battle rose to over 50 transports. The [IJA] arranged these planes into the 1st and 2nd Chutais and placed them under a Hikotai headquarters, with the 3rd and 4th Chutais coming along in early 1942. Due to the limited number of aircraft available for dedicated operations it was decided that the 1st and 2nd Chutais would operate the Type Lo and Ki-56, while the 3rd and 4th Chutais would field the newer and larger Mitsubishi Ki-57 'Topsy'." (Picarella, 40)
-- "... from 1943 onwards the IJA executed all remaining paratroop operations and airborne special attack missions." (Picarella, 40)
-- "The second and possibly most notable paratroop operation of the war occurred at Palembang, Sumatra, on [02/14/1942] --- The first group consisted of 24 transport aircraft and 19 bombers, escorted by Ki-43-I 'Oscars' of the 64th Sentai. In place of the standard 3-aircraft formations typically used by the transports, this attacking force of transports and bombers was specially grouped into [groups of 9], a tactic that had been rehearsed during the planning stage of the operation. This arrangement was designed to provide better fighter cover for the formations. The second group consisted of 9 transports and 9 bombers covered by Ki-43-Is of the 59th Sentai. // The drops were satisfactory. The attacking force succeeded. Within 72 hours the Japanese had control of Palembang, and air losses during the operation amounted to 3 transports and 1 bomber." (Picarella, 40)
-- "Following the success of Palembang, the IJA paratroop operations were planned against such targets as Tjilatap in Java, Pangkalanberandan and Sabang in Sumatra, and Andaman in the Indian Ocean ..." (Picarella, 40)
-- "Surprisingly, some aircraft of the 1st Paratroop Sentai carried out maritime patrol duties around Andaman and the Nicobar area in Bengal Bay. To be suitable to operate in this capacity, maintenance personnel modified the Ki-57s in the field by installing bomb shackles so that the planes could carry bombs and depth charges." (Picarella, 42)
Sources:
Japanese Experimental Transport Aircraft of the Pacific War, by Giuseppe Picarella (2011 Stratus)
-----------------------------------------------------------
Based on the above, it would seem that the Ki-57, if truly to be in game, could be part of a new game mode -- such as: 1) capture of enemy territory via paratroopers instead of outright destruction; 2) escort of the Ki-57 so that it can reach its destination. There is also the possibility that the Ki-57 could be used as a low-altitude bomber or as coastal defense.
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Within the current framework I'd say that it would appear as a bomber...
...the 11x7.7mm is still a mystery though...
New tech tree background has bombs, jet engines, and what appears to be an Aichi D3A with a bomb along the centerline. Ki-10 upper left, Ki-84 far lower left (halfway off-screen):
old background with A5M upper left, J4M lower left and right:
Edited by J311yfish, 06 February 2018 - 02:36 AM.
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Commander_Rasseru, on 25 February 2014 - 11:10 PM, said:
Torpedo bombers could take a role as Attack aircraft. The Devs would just have to switch to bombs and add some guns. I don't think all B5N and the B6N were gun-less.
B5N 1 × 7.7 mm Type 92 machine gun in rear dorsal position and later a 2 × 7.7 Type 97 machine guns in the wings. Also 1x 800kg (1,760lb) bomb or 2 × 250 kg (550 lb) bombs or 6 × 132 kg (293 lb) bombs
B6N Type 92 machine gun in a ventral tunnel at the rear of the cockpit, and a 7.7mm Type 97 machine-gun to the port wing. Revised tail armament. 7.7 mm (.303 in) Type 92 machine gun and later replaced with one 13 mm Type 2 machine gun. 800 kg (1,760 lb) of bombs (1 x 800kg or 500kg, or 2 x 250kg)
Don't forget Seaplane.... they could be useful for a low or med tier plane. Like the Aichi M6A.
That is VERY light armament, so what role would they fill? The TBM Avenger was a contemporary of the B6N yet it was more heavily armed. The same goes for US dive bombers versus Japanese dive bombers, as US Navy Dauntless dive bombers were sometimes employed as low altitude fighters.
Hiro_Yoshi, on 06 February 2018 - 04:10 AM, said:
That is VERY light armament, so what role would they fill?
I am not a developer, but if I had to guess, I would say that in the context of new objectives that mimic historical scenarios, torpedo bombers might have a place -- if not as a playable aircraft, then perhaps as a bot aircraft to be protected. For example, provide air superiority for the torpedo bombers as they fly in and sink the American carrier. If you are defending the carrier, then you are trying to destroy the torpedo bombers while fighters try to shoot you down. Do you take out the fighters first to achieve air superiority, thus making quick work of the remaining torpedo bombers? Or, do you try to take out the torpedo bombers first to keep the carrier afloat? Just an idea. 2.0 really is the beginning of these kinds of possibilities.
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J311yfish, on 13 March 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:
182,840 views since creation 02/24/2014 as of 03/13/2017 = 1,112 days = 164 views/day = 6.85 views/hour average over the lifetime of the thread.
241,858 views since creation 02/24/2014 as of 03/08/2018 = 1,474 days = 164 views/day = 6.84 views/hour average over the lifetime of the thread -- still going strong!
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Imperial Japanese Army Air Force -- armament and implications
This is a re-post and update of an earlier post, due to limited space.
Key
Purple = tier verified
Maroon = tier approx.
Sources:
-- Mikesh
-- Wargaming links
------------------------------------------------
IJAAF
Year | Name | Caliber | rpm | m/s | status | notes |
1930-~1940 1939-1944 1940-1945
|
Army Type 89 fixed Te-1 flex Army Type 89 Kai fixed |
7.7mm (7.7x58 SR) |
900 | 820 | operational |
"...license-built copy of the Vickers Class E gun chambered for 7.7x58 SR Type 89 cartridge"; "synchronized well, but also saw much use as a wing mount"; heavily revised 1938-1940, thereafter marked Type 89 kai; Te-1 = Type 89 made flexible; "used in tail of Ki-21, and perhaps other applications." Developer: Vickers; Giken possibly Producer: Tokyo (early), Kokura and Nagoya A.A.'s II 2x7.7mm Type 89 (S) Nakajima Type 91 II II 2x7.7mm Type 89 (S) Nakajima A4N II II 2x7.7mm Type 89 (S) Mitsubishi Ki-18 II II 2x7.7mm Type 89 (S) Nakajima Ki-8 II II 2x7.7mm Type 89 (S) Nakajima Ki-11 II -- confirm II 2x7.7mm Type 89 (S) Nakajima Ki-27 II II 2x7.7mm Type 89 (S) Nakajima Ki-43 IV II 2x7.7mm Type 89 (S) Kawasaki Type 92 II -- confirm II 2x7.7mm Type 89 (S) Kawasaki Ki-10 II II 2x7.7mm Type 89 (S) Kawasaki Ki-28 IV II 1x7.7mm Type 89 (S) Kawasaki Ki-3 II -- confirm II 1x7.7mm Type 89 (rear) Kawasaki Ki-3 II -- confirm II 2x7.7mm Type 89 (rear) Kawasaki Ki-3 II -- confirm II 1x7.7mm Type 89 (S) Kawasaki Ki-32 III II 1x7.7mm Type 89 (rear) Kawasaki Ki-32 III II 2x7.7mm Type 89 (W) Mitsubishi Ki-30 III II 2x7.7mm Type 89 (rear) Mitsubishi Ki-30 III III 2x7.7mm Type 89 © Kawasaki Ki-45 IV II 1x7.7mm Type 89 (rear) Kawasaki Ki-45 IV II 1x7.7mm Type 89 (rear) Kawasaki Ki-45 KAI V II 2x7.7mm Type 89 (W) Mitsubishi Ki-51 IV II 1x7.7mm Type 89 (rear) Mitsubishi Ki-51 IV |
1936-1945 | Te-4 |
7.7mm (7.7x58 SR) |
730 | 810 |
Developer: Probably Tokyo Army Arsenal/Giken Producer: Tokyo (early), Kokura and Nagoya A.A.'s II 1x7.7mm Te-4 (rear) Nakajima Ki-8 II IV 1x7.7mm Te-4 (rear) Kawasaki Ki-45 V |
|
1938-1945 | Army Type 98 flex |
7.9mm (7.92x57) |
1100 | 750 | operational |
licensed production of Luftwaffe MG 15; essentially the same as Navy Type 1 flexible; produced by Nagoya Army Arsenal for IJN late in war Developer: Solothurn Producer: Nagoya Army Arsenal IV 1x7.92mm Type 98 (rear) Kawasaki Ki-45 V |
1938-1945 | Army Type 98 fixed |
7.9mm (7.92x57) |
1100 | 750 | operational |
licensed production of Luftwaffe MG 17 Developer: Solothurn Producer: Nagoya A.A. |
1940-1945 | Army Type 100/1 flex |
7.9mm (7.92x57) |
2200 | 750 | operational |
twin gun; "developed by placing the actions of two Czech ZB 26 (BREN type) infantry guns side-by-side in a single receiver -- a remarkable piece of work." Developer: Giken Producer: Nagoya Army Arsenal |
1941-1945 |
Army Type 1 (Ho-103 fixed) (Ho-104 flex) |
13mm (12.7x81 SR) |
900 400(S) |
780 | operational |
Ho-103 (fixed); project to adapt U.S. Model 1921 Browning to Italian cartridge; found in Kawasaki Ki-61 Ho-104 (flexible); developed late in the war, saw service in the Mitsubishi Ki-67 Developer: Chuuou Kougyou KK Producer: Chuuou Kougyou KK; Kokura and Nagoya A.A.'s IV 2x12.7mm Type 1 (S) Nakajima Ki-43 IV IV 2x12.7mm Type 1 (W) Mitsubishi Ki-51 IV IV 2x12.7mm Type 1 © Kawasaki Ki-45 KAIa V IV 2x12.7mm Type 1 (S) Kawasaki Ki-6001 V IV 4x12.7mm Type 1 (S+W) Kawasaki Ki-6003 V IV 2x12.7mm Type 1 (S) Kawasaki Ki-61 V IV 2x12.7mm Type 1 (W) Kawasaki Ki-61 V IV 2x12.7mm Type 1 (W) Kawasaki Ki-61-II VI IV 2x12.7mm Type 1 (W) Kawasaki Ki-100 VII |
~1941-1944+ | Ho-1 |
20mm (20x125) |
400 | 820 | operational |
"the first in a series of Ho-00X 20mm aircraft machine gun projects; based on the powerful Army Type 97 anti-tank gun Developer: Japan Special Steel/Giken Producer: Kokura A.A. |
1942?-1945 | Ho-3 |
20mm (20x125) |
400 | 820 | operational |
Developer: Japan Special Steel/Giken Producer: Kokura A.A. IV 2x20mm Ho-3-II (S) Nakajima Ki-43-II V IV 1x20mm Ho-3 © Kawasaki Ki-45 KAIa V IV 1x20mm Ho-3 © Kawasaki Ki-45 KAIb V |
1942?-1945 |
Army Type 2 (Ho-5) |
20mm (20x94) |
750-850 | 750-820 | operational |
"The first true fighter-fighter 20mm cannon produced by the Army, the best Japanese 20mm aircraft gun, and arguably the best WWII 20mm produced by any combatant nation -- when made with decent raw materials and skilled labor; evolved by scaling up Ho-103, chambering for shortened version of the very popular 20x100 Hispano-Suiza cartridge." Developer: Chuuou Kougyou KK Producer: Hitachi Heiki KK; Kokura and Nagoya A.A.'s V 2x20mm Ho-5I (S) Nakajima Ki-43-II V VI 2x20mm Ho-5 (S) Nakajima Ki-43-III V VI 2x20mm Ho-5 (N) Kawasaki Ki-45 KAI a/b/d V VI 2x20mm Ho-5 (S) Kawasaki Ki-88 VI VI 2x20mm Ho-5 (S) Kawasaki Ki-61 V VI 2x20mm Ho-5 (S) Kawasaki Ki-61-II VI VI 2x20mm Ho-5 (S) Kawasaki Ki-100 VII VI 2x20mm Ho-5 (S) Kawasaki Ki-64 VI VI 2x20mm Ho-5 (W) Kawasaki Ki-64 VI VI 2x20mm Ho-5 (_) Kawasaki Ki-96 VI VI 2x20mm Ho-5-II (S) Nakajima Ki-84 VII VI 2x20mm Ho-5-II (W) Nakajima Ki-84 VII VI 2-4x20mm Ho-5 (W) Kawasaki Ki-94-II VIII |
Ho-51 | 25mm | experimental |
further modified to become Ho-155 Ho-155-I = Ho-51 scaled up Ho-155-II = Ho-155-I trimmed down, intended to fit spots originally for Ho-5 |
|||
late 1944-1945 |
Ho-155-I Ho-155-II |
30mm (30x115) |
500 | 700 | experimental |
scaled up from Ho-51; would have been very difficult to synchronize at a useful rate of fire; Neither Ho-155-I or Ho-155-II ever formally adopted, both remaining experimental; given the misnomer 'Ho-105' Developer: Chuuou Kougyou KK Producer: Nagoya A.A.'s Nakajima Ki-84-Ic Nakajima Ki-87 Rikugun Ki-202 Nakajima Kikka Nakajima Ki-201 VII 2x30mm Ho-105-II (W) Nakajima Ki-84 VII VII 2x30mm Ho-105-II (W) Tachikawa Ki-94-I VII VII 2x30mm Ho-105-II (W) Tachikawa Ki-94-II VIII VIII 2x30mm Ho-105-I © Tachikawa Ki-162-I IX IX 2x30mm Ho-105-III © Tachikawa Ki-162-I IX, Tachikawa Ki-162-III X |
|
|
|||||
1943-1945 |
Ho-203 |
37mm (37x111 R) |
~130 | 570 | operational |
"entirely unsuited for wing mounting; very low rate of fire; relatively useless for fighter-fighter conflict, though pressed into such use"; designed/installed for bomber attack Developer: Japan Special Steel Producer: Japan Special Steel; Kokura and Nagoya A.A.'s Mitsubishi Ki-83 VI 1x37mm Ho-203 © Kawasaki Ki-45 KAIc V VI 1x37mm Ho-203 (_) Kawasaki Ki-45 KAId V VI 1x37mm Ho-203 (N) Kawasaki Ki-96 VI Kawasaki Ki-108 VI 1x37mm Ho-203 (H) Kawasaki Ki-88 VI |
1944-1945 | Ho-204 |
37mm (37x144) |
400 | 450 | operational |
primary use of the gun was in the Ki-46-III Kai air defense fighter; some sources misidentify as Ho-203; Developer: Chuuou Kougyou KK Producer: Chuuou Kougyou KK (few); Kokura and Nagoya A.A.'s IX 2x37mm Ho-204 (W) Tachikawa Ki-94-I VII Mansyu Ki-98 |
1943-1945 | Ho-301 |
40mm caseless (40x129) |
475 | 245 | operational |
"the only aircraft gun using caseless ammunition to see combat; should really be considered an automatic grenade launcher" Developer: Chuuou Kougyou KK Producer: Nagoya A.A.'s Nakajima Ki-44-IIc |
1944?-1945 | Ho-401 |
57mm (57x121 R) |
80-100 | 560 | operational |
"can be though of as either a scaled-up Ho-203, or automated Type 90 tank gun" Developer: Japan Special Steel Producer: Japan Special Steel; Nagoya A.A. Tachikawa Ki-94-I -- Note: premium in game uses the 2x37mm configuration instead |
1943-1945 | Ho-402 |
57mm (57x577 R) |
experimental |
57x577R tank/antitank gun with recoil operated automatic loader; "Rikugun Ki-93-Ia designed around this gun" |
||
1945 | Ho-403 | (57x187 R) | experimental |
little-known Kokura arsenal project; design stage 1945; smaller and less powerful than Ho-402; probable 57x187R |
||
1943-1945 | Ho-501 | 75mm | experimental | 75mm version of Ho-203; in development at end of war, no testing reported | ||
Ho-502/503/504 |
experimental | unknown | ||||
Ho-505 | 75mm | experimental |
distinct from Ho-501; "this may be the Type 88 antiaircraft gun fitted with a recoil-operated automatic loader" Rikugun Ki-93-1b |
|||
1942-1945 | Ho-3057 | 57mm caseless | experimental | single feasability prototype; now at USAF museum | ||
1942 | Ho-3075 | 75mm caseless | experimental | abandoned in design phase | ||
1942-1945 | Ho-3157 | 57x187RB | experimental | 2 unfinished feasibility prototypes; recovered 1945 | ||
1942 | Ho-3175 | 75mm | experimental | 75mm version of Ho-3157; abandoned in design phase 1942 |
Data: Mikesh. [more]
Conclusions
-- Kayaba Katsuodori's 30mm caseless ammo might be fired from an experimental cannon named 'Ho-3030' (based on naming conventions for Ho-3057 and Ho-3075 caseless ammo projects)
Edited by J311yfish, 15 November 2018 - 05:00 PM.
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Imperial Japanese Navy -- armament and implications
This is a re-post and update of an earlier post, due to limited space.
Key
Purple = tier verified
Maroon = tier approx
Sources:
-- Mikesh
-- Wargaming links
------------------------------------------------
IJN
Year | Name | Caliber | rpm | m/s | status | notes |
1932-1945 | Navy Type 92 flex |
7.7mm (7.7x56 R) (.303 British) |
600 | 740 | operational |
license-built copy of Lewis lmg built by BAS in England Developer: Savage Arms Co. Producer: Toyokawa and Yokosuka N.A.'s II 2x7.7mm Type 92 (S) Aichi D1A1 II -- confirm II 1x7.7mm Type 92 (rear) Aichi D1A1 II II 1x7.7mm Type 92 (rear) Kusho B4Y1 II II 1x7.7mm Type 92 (rear) Nakajima B5N1 III II 1x7.7mm Type 92 (rear) Nakajima B5N2 IV II 2x7.7mm Type 92 (rear) Aichi D3A IV II 2x7.7mm Type 92 (S) Kusho D4Y V -- confirm II 1x7.7mm Type 92 Kugisho P1Y1 VI |
1937-1945 |
Navy Type 97 fixed |
7.7mm (7.7x56 R) (.303 British) |
900 | 745 | operational |
license-built copy of the Vickers E Developer: Vickers Producer: KK Nihon Seikoujo; Suzuka and Yokosuka N.A.'s III 2x7.7mm Type 97 Model 1 (S) Nakajima A4N II III 2x7.7mm Type 97 Model 1 (S) Mitsubishi A5M III III 2x7.7mm Type 97 Model 1 (S) Mitsubishi Ki-33 III III 2x7.7mm Type 97 Model 2 (S) Mitsubishi A6M1 IV III 2x7.7mm Type 97 Model 2 (S) Mitsubishi A6M2 V V 2x7.7mm Type 97 Model 2 (S) Mitsubishi A6M3 VI III 2x7.7mm Type 97 Model 2 (S) Mitsubishi A6M5 VI III 2x7.7mm Type 97 (S) Mitsubishi J2M V III 2x7.7mm Type 97 (S) Kawanishi N1K1-J VI III 2x7.7mm Type 97 (S) Aichi D3A IV III 2x7.7mm Type 97 (S) Kusho D4Y V III 1x7.7mm Type 97 (VT) Nakajima B6N V III 1x7.7mm Type 97 (rear) Nakajima B6N V -- confirm |
1939-1945 |
Navy Type 99 Mk.1 fixed/flex |
20mm (20x72 RB) |
520-550 | 600 | operational |
all variants based on license-built copy of Oerlikon FF (FF, FFL, FFS) Developer: Oerlikon/Dainihon Heiki KK Producer: Dainihon Heiki KK; Toyokawa N.A.; likely others V 2x20mm Type 99-1 Model 1 (W) Mitsubishi A6M1 IV V 2x20mm Type 99-1 Model 1 (W) Mitsubishi A6M2 V V 2x20mm Type 99-1 Model 1 (W) Mitsubishi A6M5 VI VI 2x20mm Type 99-1 Model 3 (W) Mitsubishi A6M2 V VI 2x20mm Type 99-1 Model 3 (W) Mitsubishi J2M V VI 2x20mm Type 99-1 Model 4 (W) Mitsubishi J2M V V 1x20mm Type 99-1 (N) Nakajima J1N1 V |
1941-1945 |
Navy Type 99 Mk.2 fixed |
20mm (20x101 RB) |
480-500 | 750-760 | operational |
license-built Oerlikon FFL Developer: Oerlikon/Dainihon Heiki KK [Kugishisyo possibly] Producer: Dainihon Heiki KK; Tagajou N.A.
VII 2x20mm Type 99-2 Model 1 (W) Mitsubishi A6M5 VI VII 2x20mm Type 99-2 Model 4 (W) Mitsubishi A7M VII VII 2x20mm Type 99-2 (W) Mitsubishi J2M V VII 2x20mm Type 99-2 (W) Kawanishi N1K1-J VI VII 4x20mm Type 99-2 (W) Kawanishi N1K1-J VI VII 4x20mm Type 99-2 (W) Kawanishi N1K2-J VII VII 2x20mm Type 99-2 (W) Aichi B7A VI VII 2x20mm Type 99-2 (F) Aichi S1A VII VII 2x20mm Type 99-2 (remote-control dorsal turret) Aichi S1A VII VII 2x20mm Type 99-2 (N) Nakajima J5N1 VII |
03/1945+ |
Navy Type 99 Mk.2 Model 5 fixed |
20mm (20x101 RB) |
620 | 760 | operational |
used Kawamura belt feed of the Model 4 and a very strong multiple coil spring external bolt buffer to achieve a much higher rate of fire than typical for Oerlikon guns VII 2x20mm Type 99-2 Model 5 (W) Mitsubishi A7M VII VII 2x20mm Type 99-2 Model 5 © Mitsubishi J4M VII |
1941-1945 | Navy Type 1 flex |
7.92mm (7.92x57) |
1000 | 785 | operational |
license-built copy of Luftwaffe MG 15; like IJAAF Type 98; Nagoya Army Arsenal became major manufacturer for Navy Developer: Solothurn Producer: Nagoya Army Arsena; Tagajou and Yokosuka N.A.'s III 1x7.92mm MG-15 rear gun Bf 110 C-6 IV III 1x7.92mm Type 1 (rear) Kusho D4Y V III 1x7.92mm Type 1 (rear) Aichi B7A VI |
~1942-1945 |
Navy Type 2 flex |
13mm (13x64 B) |
900 | 750 | operational |
license-built copy of Luftwaffe MG 131, in the original percussion-ignition form of that gun Developer: Rheinmetall-Borsig AG Producer: KK Nihon Seikoujo; Suzuka (possibly) and Toyokawa N.A.'s IV 2x13.2mm Type 2 (S) Mitsubishi A5M III -- confirm; possible error in name/caliber VI 1x13mm Type 2 (rear) Nakajima B6N V VI 1x13mm Type 2 (rear) Kusho D4Y V VI 1x13mm Type 2 (rear) Aichi B7A VI VI Kugisho P1Y1 VI VI 2x13mm MG 131 (S) Fw190A-5/D/Bf 109F/G/Me209A VI/VI/VI/VII/VIII VI 13mm MG 131 rear Ju 88P VI VI 2x13mm MG 131 rear Me265 VI VII 4x13mm MG 131 rear Me265 VII |
1944-1945 |
Type 2 fixed |
30mm (30x91 RB) |
400 | 710 | operational |
underpowered, slow-firing, limited magazine capacity; limited deployment; combat testing spring 1944 on Truk; rejected for fighter wing mounting, ostensibly because of its small magazine capacity Developer: Dainihon Heiki KK Producer: Dainihon Heiki KK VII 2x30mm Type 2 exp (W) Mitsubishi A6M3 VI VIII 1x30mm Type 2 © Mitsubishi J4M VII VIII 4x30mm Type 2 © Kyushu J7W1 VIII |
1943-1945 |
Type 3 fixed/flex |
13.2mm (13.2x99) |
800 | 790-800 | operational |
straightforward copies of the M2 Browning (12.7x99 Browning) but chambered for the 13.2x99 Hotchkiss Developer: Kugishisyo possibly Producer: KK Nihon Seikoujo; Suzuka and Toyokawa N.A.'s VI 2x13.2mm Type 3 (W) Mitsubishi A6M5 VI VI 2x13.2mm Type 3 (W) Mitsubishi A7M VII VI 2x13.2mm (_) Kawanishi N1K3-J VII VI 2x13.2mm (_) Kawanishi N1K4-J VII VI 2x13.2mm (_) Kawanishi N1K5-J VII |
1945 |
Type 5 fixed |
30mm (30x122) |
500 | 760 | operational |
original and efficient; recoil to airframe greatly reduced; weapon of choice for all Navy proposed/prototype fighter/interceptors of 1945; about 2000 made, but few in action before war end. Developer: Japan Special Steel Producer: Toyokawa N.A.; test quantities by Japan Special Steel and KK Nihon Seikoujo VIII 2x30mm Type 5 (W) Mitsubishi J2M5 V (proof) VIII 2x30mm Type 5 (F) Aichi S1A VII VIII 2x30mm Type 5 (N) Nakajima J5N1 VII VIII 1x30mm Type 5 (N) Nakajima Kikka VIII VIII 2x30mm Type 5 (N) Nakajima Kikka VIII VIII 2x30mm Type 5 (W) Mitsubishi J8M VIII IX 4x30mm Type 5 © Kyushu J7W1 VIII IX 4x30mm Type 5 © Kyushu J7W2 IX |
1939 | 14-shi | 23mm | experimental |
scaling 20mm Oerlikon FF design down to produce medium caliber gun 03/1939 to 09/1942 program to improve Oerlikon FFS motor-cannon [designations provided] |
||
14-shi | 14mm | experimental |
testing began 03/1941, completed by 07/1942 cartridge similar to 20x100 RB Oerlikon L, necked down to 14mm; similar to Type 99-1 |
|||
08/1942+ | 17-shi | experimental | “special large caliber machine gun” program; several developed; most or all disintegrating belt fed. | |||
17-shi | 25mm | experimental |
“Model 4” (4 gata) Type 96 Hotchkiss antiaircraft gun modified for aircraft use; belt fed; heavy and slow firing; abandoned in favor of 30mm |
|||
17-shi-otsu | 30mm | experimental | becomes Type 5 30mm (operational) | |||
17-shi-kou |
30mm | experimental |
Kugisho-designed 30x122 cartridge; 10kg heavier than otsu X Kyushu J7W3? X -- confirm; possible error in name X Kugisho R2Y2? IX |
|||
17-shi | 40mm | experimental |
40x150 cartridge; diagramed by Chinn in great detail; very original, short-recoil operated with advanced primer ignition, rising-block locked, disintegrating belt fed; designed and developed primarily by Kure Naval Arsenal; rejected in favor of Type 5 30mm in 03/1945 after considerable development; 6 projectile modifications of Vickers 40mm catalogued. X Kugisho R2Y2? IX X Kugisho R2Y3? X |
|||
18-shi | 20mm | experimental |
closely related to Type 5 (30mm) but using a 20x98 cartridge (shortened from 20x125); may be direct derivative of Army Ho-4; developed by Kugisyo; discontinued 03/1945. |
Data: Mikesh
Edited by J311yfish, 15 November 2018 - 04:01 PM.
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March 2018: Developer Q&A Part 1
Q: What additions to the Japanese line can we expect to come in the following years?
A: The near future will bring a mini-branch of Japanese heavy fighters that will specialize in bomber interception.
Q: Will the Ki-61 ever see its synchronized Ho-5 20mm cannons, or its Ho-155 30mm wing cannons?
A: No plans for that currently.
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J311yfish, on 21 March 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:
Tier VII
Mitsubishi A7M Reppū (Strong Gale) 烈風 -- "Sam" (05/1944) -- Experimental Carrier Fighter
Kawanishi N1K2-J Shiden Kai (Violet Lightning, Modified) 紫電改 -- "George" (12/1943) -- Navy Interceptor Fighter
Nakajima J5N1 Tenrai (Heavenly Thunder) 天の雷 (07/1944) -- Experimental Interceptor Fighter
Kugisho P1Y3 Ginga (Galaxy) 銀河 -- "Frances" (07/1945+)
Kayaba Katsuodori -- (~1944) -- Experimental Ramjet Interceptor
Kayaba Katsuodori vs. Mitsubishi J8M vs. McDonnell XF-85 Goblin
Katsuodori | J8M / Ki-200 | XF-85 Goblin | |
Span (m) | 8.99 | 9.47 | 6.43 |
Length (m) | 4.48 |
5.88 (Ki-200) 6.03 (J8M) |
4.52 |
Height (m) | 1.85 | 2.68 | 2.54 |
Wing area (m2) Wing Loading (kg/m2)
|
12.57 .....
|
17.72 219.22 (J8M1) 219.70 (J8M2) |
9.34 271.9
|
Wing sweep | 25.5° | 37° | |
Empty (kg) | 850 |
1445 (J8M1) 1505 (Ki-200) 1510 (J8M2) |
1807 |
Loaded (kg)
Loaded max (kg)
|
3000
|
3000 (J8M1) 3650 (J8M2) 3870 (J8M1/Ki-200) 3900 (J8M2) |
2540
|
Max speed | 900 km/h (est.) |
800-900 km/h @ 10000m (est) (Ki-200) 900 km/h @ 10000m (est.) (J8M) |
1,043 km/h @ SL 935 km/h @ 10,670m |
Landing speed | 100 | 150 km/h | ... |
Range/Endurance | 30:00 |
5:30 (J8M) |
20:00 |
Climb | 3:00 to 10000m |
3:40 to 10000m (Ki-200) 3:50 to 10000m (J8M) |
3:26 to 1000m |
Ceiling | 15000m | 12000m | 14630m |
Armament | 2x30mm caseless |
2x30mm Type 5 or 1x30mm Type 5 (J8M) 2x30mm Ho-155 (Ki-200) |
4x0.50" |
Data: Dyer, Francillon
XF-85 Goblin is comparable in size to Kayaba Katsuodori ramjet fighter, though it has a smaller profile from above/below (~30%), and larger profile from front/back (+37%). For comparison to Rikugun Ki-202 (tier IX/X rocket fighter) see spoiler tag above.
Edited by J311yfish, 20 April 2018 - 02:23 PM.
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Akamatsu medal = Mitsubishi J2M Raiden
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Got any info on Type 3 aircraft rockets? The current carrier rework over in WoWS has their Japanese fighters sling this "Type 3 No. 1 Mk.28" thing as their rocket attacks. Maybe Japan can finally get some extra explosive power for use in WoWP?
The Hakuryu also get a Nakajima J5N "Tenrai" (is that thing even supposed to operate off carriers?) option as torpedo bombers but not "Wakusei" dive bombers. Could this thing be included into WoWP in some capability?
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Tech tree project will be updated accordingly soon. Rather than move information around, though, which is complicated by forum constraints on post length, I am simply going to post a list of modules from the new heavy fighters, with their corresponding implications.
Pretty awesome update for Japan, really! And the implication of Ki-93 being tier VII instead of VIII means further-on jet developments, which is kind of exciting.
Tier Aircraft |
Engine | Airframe | Armament | Turret | Outboard weapon |
Implications |
|
V |
III 2xNakajima Ha-20 Otsu | V Ki-45 Kai | III 2x7.7mm Type 89 © | IV 20mm Ho-3 © | IV 7.7mm Te-4 | None | |
III 2xNakajima Ha-25 | IV 2x12.7mm Type 1 © | V 7.92mm Type-98 | VI 2x250kg | ||||
IV 2xMitsubishi Ha-102 | VI 37mm Ho-203 © |
Nakajima J1N1 heavy fighter Mitsubishi Ki-46-I/II Mitsubishi Ki-51 attack Nakajima Ki-63 Kawasaki Ki-66-Ia |
|||||
VI |
V 2xMitsubishi Ha-112-II | VI Ki-102 Ko | VI 37mm Ho-203 © | IV 2x20mm Ho-3 © | V 7.92mm Type-98 | None |
Kawasaki Ki-45-II/96 heavy fighter Mitsubishi Ki-46-III KAI Mitsubishi Ki-46-IIIb Mitsubishi Ki-46-IIIc Kawasaki Ki-100-I (conversion of Ki-61) Nakajima Ki-116 (conversion of Ki-84) |
V 2xMitsubishi Ha-112-II Ru | VI 57mm Ho-401 © | V 2x20mm Ho-5 © | VI 12.7mm Ho-103 | VI 2x250kg |
Mitsubishi Ki-46-IVb Kawasaki Ki-108 heavy fighter Kawasaki Ki-100-II |
||
VII |
VII 2xMitsubishi Ha-211 Ru | VII Ki-93 Ko | VI 57mm Ho-401 © | V 2x20mm Ho-5 (W) | VI 7.92mm Type 100 | None |
Kawanishi J3K Kawanishi N1K5-J Aichi B7A Mitsubishi Ki-83 heavy fighter Mansyu Ki-98 heavy fighter Kugisho P1Y5 (possible parent for Ohka) Nakajima G8N2 (parent for Ohka) |
VII 2xMitsubishi Ha-214 Ru | VII 57mm Ho-402 © | VII 2x20mm Ho-5-II (W) | VII 12.7mm Ho-103 | VI 2x250kg | Kawasaki Ki-91 heavy bomber |
Updated big-picture image page 1.
Nakajima Ha-20b
-- "In 1937 Nakajima acquired another infusion of Bristol engine technology by licensed production of the 840hp Mercury VIII 9-cylinder radial. It was more compact than the original Jupiter, much more powerful than even the Kotobuki, and in fact comparable with the much larger Hikari. The Army soon expressed an interest in the engine, designating it the Ha-20 … the engine was compact and powerful, and was specified to power a new Army Experimental Twin-engine Fighter, the subject of a revised specification issued in [12/1937]. This was a successor to an earlier specification issued in [03/1937] for this type of aircraft, to which Nakajima Ki-37, Kawasaki Ki-38, Mitsubishi Ki-39 had all been invited to tender … the Kawasaki design was considered promising and a detailed mockup was completed by [10/1937]. // The revised specification contained new performance requirements and Kawasaki was instructed to develop its Ki-38 design to meet them under the new designation Ki-45. The first prototype had engine cowlings very similar to those of the Mercury-powered Bristol Blenheim I, with cylindrical profile and an integral exhaust collector ring around the front rim, but, compact as the engine was, the installation led to excessive drag and frequent nacelle stall. Various alterations to reduce drag were tried in the following 3 prototypes, including tapered cowlings with rocker cover blisters, wide-chord spinners, and even annular spinners to force cooling air through their centers and out through wing slots … Unfortunately all the effort was to no avail and the Ha-20b powered Ki-45 was abandoned in mid-1939. As soon as smaller diameter 14-cylinder radial engines became available from early 1940, the Ki-45 was converted to mount them, finally entering service in [08/1942]." (Goodwin & Starkings, 143)
-- "Despite production problems and its failure in the Ki-45, the Ha-20 was a significant engine for Nakajima … introduced Nakajima to the construction of modern, compact, high powered radial engines, standing them in good stead for future projects. 10 examples of the Ha-20 and Ha-20b were constructed between 1937 and 1939." (Goodwin & Starkings, 143)
Mitsubishi Ha-214
-- "... The Ha-214 was bench tested from the end of 1943 and flight tested in the 16th and 17th Ki-67 prototypes in early 1944. No photos have survived of these installations and depictions of them … apparently driving six bladed propellers. Little is known about the performance of the prototype units, although it appears to have been promising as they were planned for a new, strengthened version of this aircraft, the Ki-67-II. In addition the Army planned to use the Ha-214 for other future projects:
-- "... Whatever its virtues, the Ha-214 was not put into series production, although other factors may have had a bearing on this … probably shared some components with the sorely needed Ha-104 that had priority. // One other aircraft that did fly with Ha-214 engines was the Ki-93, powered by 2 that actually had the ultra-long chord cowlings, long spinners and 6 bladed propellers of the project models. The Ki-93's engine cowling length is explained by the frontal cooling fan at one end, and by the shrouding of the internal cooling gills at the other. The first prototype made a small number of test flights, the last one being terminated by a collapsed starboard undercarriage leg … A second prototype was completed and never flown as the war end stopped all further testing." (Goodwin & Starkings, 114-115)
Edited by J311yfish, 13 November 2018 - 09:35 AM.
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pyantoryng, on 18 October 2018 - 08:29 AM, said:
Got any info on Type 3 aircraft rockets? The current carrier rework over in WoWS has their Japanese fighters sling this "Type 3 No. 1 Mk.28" thing as their rocket attacks. Maybe Japan can finally get some extra explosive power for use in WoWP?
The Hakuryu also get a Nakajima J5N "Tenrai" (is that thing even supposed to operate off carriers?) option as torpedo bombers but not "Wakusei" dive bombers. Could this thing be included into WoWP in some capability?
Found some information about air-air and air-ground rockets in a Japanese engine book. Will update.
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Heavy Fighter speculation -- tiers VIII-X
If there are ever to be heavy fighters at tiers VIII-X, they might resemble a continuation of the Me 262 with 50mm cannon -- as the Nakajima Ki-201 with a 57mm or 75mm development. There is evidence in the historical narrative.
![]() |
Me 262 A-1a/U4 -- 50mm MK 214 or 50mm BK 5 // Me 262 E-1 -- 55mm MK 114
Historical Narrative -- aircraft designed around large-caliber cannons:
Armament -- extrapolation of cannon development:
Engines -- extrapolation of engine development:
Edited by J311yfish, 28 November 2018 - 02:00 PM.
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J311yfish, on 26 November 2018 - 04:40 AM, said:
I am not a developer, but here are some considerations related to the Mitsubishi J2M Raiden (Thunderbolt):
-- if it were to appear as a premium, there are several one-off variants that could be used in order to keep it safe for progression (Ex: J2M5 Model 33 with 2x30mm) (development notes)
-- if it were to appear for progression, it would lead to the Kawanishi N1K1-J, N1K2-J and related developments which surpassed it
-- the Japanese Army counterpart to the J2M is the Nakajima Ki-44. If Ki-44 is used for progression, it would lead to Kayaba Katsuodori and Army development of the J8M.
-- the abundance of lightning- and thunder-themed names could make for an interesting event in which these aircraft compete each other:
USA
Heavy Fighters
-- Lockheed P-38F Lightning -- (V)
-- Lockheed P-38J Lightning -- (VI)
-- Lockheed XP-58 Chain Lightning -- (VIII)
Multirole Fighters
-- Republic P-47B Thunderbolt -- (VI)
-- Republic P-47D Thunderbolt -- (VII)
Italy
Fighters
-- Macchi C.200 Saetta (Thunderbolt) -- (V)
-- Macchi C.202 Folgore (Lightning) -- (VI)
-- Macchi C.206 -- (VII)
Japan
Heavy Fighters
-- Nakajima J5N1 Tenrai (Heavenly Thunder) -- (VII)
-- Aichi S1A Denko (Bolt of Light) -- (VII)
Multirole Fighters
-- Mitsubishi J2M Raiden (Thunderbolt) -- (VI)
-- Kawanishi N1K1-J Shiden (Violet Lightning) -- (VII)
-- Kawanishi N1K2-J Shiden Kai (Violet Lightning, Improved) -- (VII-VIII)
-- Kyushu J7W1 Shinden (Magnificent Lightning) -- (VIII)
-- Kyushu J7W2 Shinden Kai (Magnificent Lightning, Improved) -- (IX)
-- Kyushu J7W3 -- (X)
from post J2M Raiden 11/25/18
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J311yfish, on 17 November 2018 - 07:17 PM, said:
Estimates:
-- Bloch MB 162 -- tier VI est. -- based on SNCASE SE.100's Gnome-Rhone 14N's engines being tier V
-- Mitsubishi G3M -- tier IV est. -- up to 800 kg of bombs
-- Mitsubishi G4M -- tier V est. -- up to 800 kg (G4M1); up to 1,000 kg (G4M2, G4M3)
-- Nakajima G5N -- tier VI est. -- up to 2,000 kg normal; 4,000 kg max
-- Mitsubishi G7M Taizan -- tier VI est.
-- Kugisho P1Y -- tier VII est -- up to 1,000 kg of bombs (P1Y1, P1Y2); up to 1,600 kg of bombs (P1Y3)
-- Nakajima G8N -- tier VII est. -- 4x250 kg normal; 2x2,000 kg max -- Nakajima Homare engine is in game for Nakajima Ki-84 tier VII
-- Nakajima G10N -- tier VIII est. -- up to 20,000 kg of bombs short range; up to 5,000 kg of bombs long range (USA)
If IJN bombers were saved for progression, though, they might be granted use of the Kugisho Ohka and Kawanishi Baika.
IJA on the other hand might be granted use of radio-controlled missiles:
-- Kawasaki Ki-48 -- tier IV est -- up to 300 kg of bombs normal; 400 kg max
-- Kawasaki Ki-48-II -- tier V est -- up to 400 kg of bombs normal; 800 kg max
-- Nakajima Ki-49 -- tier V est. -- up to 750 kg of bombs normal; 1,000 kg max
-- Mitsubishi Ki-67 -- tier VII est. -- up to 500 kg of bombs normal; 800 kg max
-- Mitsubishi Ki-67-II -- tier VII est.
-- Tachikawa Ki-74 -- tier VII est. -- up to 1,000 kg of bombs -- engines in game for Rikugun Ki-93 tier VII
-- Tachikawa Ki-74-II -- tier VII est. -- up to 2,000 kg of bombs
-- Kawasaki Ki-91 -- tier VIII est. -- up to 4,000 kg of bombs
from a post about bombers 11/17/18
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