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[spoiler] what the Japanese tech tree could look like

Japan Mitsubishi Aichi Kawanishi Kyushu Kawasaki Nakajima Tachikawa Mansyu Rikugun

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pyantoryng #281 Posted 27 November 2017 - 07:19 PM

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460 airspeed

11x7.7mm for 102 firepower

Approx. 361 maneuverability

Optimal Altitude 1050 meters, Climb rate 26.4 m/s

860 HP

 

How does it look?



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J311yfish #282 Posted 28 November 2017 - 12:00 AM

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View Postpyantoryng, on 27 November 2017 - 02:19 PM, said:

460 airspeed

11x7.7mm for 102 firepower

Approx. 361 maneuverability

Optimal Altitude 1050 meters, Climb rate 26.4 m/s

860 HP

 

How does it look?

 

​-- "460 airspeed" -- could make sense for Tier V, approximating A6M2

-- "11x7.7mm for 102 firepower" -- does not make sense; and bombs not specifically mentioned

-- "361 maneuverability" + "26.5 m/s climb rate" + "Optimum Altitude 1050m" + "860hp" -- suggest low-mid-altitude bomber

-- the image itself shows the aircraft at low altitude close to the water, viewed from above

-- the image size 1049x675 is unusual, suggesting that it was cropped

-- usually https://gamemodels3d.com/​ has an indication of new aircraft; so far Ki-57 does not show up

-- There is no mention by Francillon of a Ki-57 configured in this way

-- There is no mention by Dyer of a Ki-57 configured this way

-- If everything is true and historical in nature, then possible sources are 'Meatballs and Dead Birds' by Gallagher (pictures of aircraft found at the end of the war), or 'Japanese Experimental Transport Aircraft of the Pacific War' by Picarella, or a perhaps source in Japanese indicating a one-off or late-war conversion for a specific mission or purpose (there are many instances of this).

 

Anyway, curious indeed!


Edited by J311yfish, 28 November 2017 - 01:37 AM.

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J311yfish #283 Posted 02 December 2017 - 07:54 AM

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Mitsubishi Ki-57 -- "Topsy" -- Paratroop and Special Forces Operations

-- "With the establishment of the 1st Raiding Regiment and the imminent establishment of the 2nd Raiding Regiment at the end of 1941, the compliment of aircraft to carry them into battle rose to over 50 transports.  The [IJA] arranged these planes into the 1st and 2nd Chutais and placed them under a Hikotai​ headquarters, with the 3rd and 4th Chutais​ coming along in early 1942.  Due to the limited number of aircraft available for dedicated operations it was decided that the 1st and 2nd Chutais​ would operate the Type Lo and Ki-56, while the 3rd and 4th Chutais​ would field the newer and larger Mitsubishi Ki-57 'Topsy'." (Picarella, 40)

-- "... from 1943 onwards the IJA executed all remaining paratroop operations and airborne special attack missions." (Picarella, 40)

-- "The second and possibly most notable paratroop operation of the war occurred at Palembang, Sumatra, on [02/14/1942] --- The first group consisted of 24 transport aircraft and 19 bombers, escorted by Ki-43-I 'Oscars' of the 64th Sentai​.  In place of the standard 3-aircraft formations typically used by the transports, this attacking force of transports and bombers was specially grouped into [groups of 9], a tactic that had been rehearsed during the planning stage of the operation.  This arrangement was designed to provide better fighter cover for the formations.  The second group consisted of 9 transports and 9 bombers covered by Ki-43-Is of the 59th Sentai​. // The drops were satisfactory.  The attacking force succeeded.  Within 72 hours the Japanese had control of Palembang, and air losses during the operation amounted to 3 transports and 1 bomber." (Picarella, 40)

-- "Following the success of Palembang, the IJA paratroop operations were planned against such targets as Tjilatap in Java, Pangkalanberandan and Sabang in Sumatra, and Andaman in the Indian Ocean ..." (Picarella, 40)

-- "Surprisingly, some aircraft of the 1st Paratroop Sentai​ carried out maritime patrol duties around Andaman and the Nicobar area in Bengal Bay.  To be suitable to operate in this capacity, maintenance personnel modified the Ki-57s in the field by installing bomb shackles so that the planes could carry bombs and depth charges." (Picarella, 42)

 

Sources:

Japanese Experimental Transport Aircraft of the Pacific War, by Giuseppe Picarella (2011 Stratus)

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

Based on the above, it would seem that the Ki-57, if truly to be in game, could be part of a new game mode -- such as: 1) capture of enemy territory via paratroopers instead of outright destruction; 2) escort of the Ki-57 so that it can reach its destination.  There is also the possibility that the Ki-57 could be used as a low-altitude bomber or as coastal defense.


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pyantoryng #284 Posted 02 December 2017 - 11:59 AM

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Within the current framework I'd say that it would appear as a bomber...

 

...the 11x7.7mm is still a mystery though...



WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

J311yfish #285 Posted 06 February 2018 - 02:14 AM

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New tech tree background has bombs, jet engines, and what appears to be an Aichi D3A with a bomb along the centerline.  Ki-10 upper left, Ki-84 far lower left (halfway off-screen):

Spoiler

 

old background with A5M upper left, J4M lower left and right:

Spoiler

 


Edited by J311yfish, 06 February 2018 - 02:36 AM.

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pyantoryng #286 Posted 06 February 2018 - 05:18 AM

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J4M changed to J7W1 too...

WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

Hiro_Yoshi #287 Posted 06 February 2018 - 09:10 AM

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View PostCommander_Rasseru, on 25 February 2014 - 11:10 PM, said:


Torpedo bombers could take a role as Attack aircraft. The Devs would just have to switch to bombs and add some guns. I don't think all B5N and the B6N were gun-less.

B5N  1 × 7.7 mm Type 92 machine gun in rear dorsal position and later  a 2 × 7.7 Type 97 machine guns in the wings. Also 1x 800kg (1,760lb) bomb or 2 × 250 kg (550 lb) bombs or 6 × 132 kg (293 lb) bombs

B6N Type 92 machine gun in a ventral tunnel at the rear of the cockpit, and a 7.7mm Type 97 machine-gun to the port wing.  Revised tail armament. 7.7 mm (.303 in) Type 92 machine gun and later replaced with one 13 mm Type 2 machine gun. 800 kg (1,760 lb) of bombs (1 x 800kg or 500kg, or 2 x 250kg)

Don't forget Seaplane.... they could be useful for a low or med tier plane. Like the Aichi M6A.

 

​That is VERY light armament, so what role would they fill? The TBM Avenger was a contemporary of the B6N yet it was more heavily armed. The same goes for US dive bombers versus Japanese dive bombers, as US Navy Dauntless dive bombers were sometimes employed as low altitude fighters.

J311yfish #288 Posted 06 February 2018 - 06:40 PM

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View PostHiro_Yoshi, on 06 February 2018 - 04:10 AM, said:

​That is VERY light armament, so what role would they fill? 

 

I am not a developer, but if I had to guess, I would say that in the context of new objectives that mimic historical scenarios, torpedo bombers might have a place -- if not as a playable aircraft, then perhaps as a bot aircraft to be protected.  For example,  provide air superiority for the torpedo bombers as they fly in and sink the American carrier.  If you are defending the carrier, then you are trying to destroy the torpedo bombers while fighters try to shoot you down.  Do you take out the fighters first to achieve air superiority, thus making quick work of the remaining torpedo bombers?  Or, do you try to take out the torpedo bombers first to keep the carrier afloat?  Just an idea.  2.0 really is the beginning of these kinds of possibilities.


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