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Make all bullets the same range


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Heibges #41 Posted 23 February 2014 - 10:15 PM

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"Factory Boresite" on US Planes in WWII was a 3x3 Meter Square at 300m.
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BrushWolf #42 Posted 23 February 2014 - 10:39 PM

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View PostHeibges, on 23 February 2014 - 04:15 PM, said:

"Factory Boresite" on US Planes in WWII was a 3x3 Meter Square at 300m.

 

Most pilots set their convergence to something around 500 feet for wing mounted weapons.


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Heibges #43 Posted 23 February 2014 - 10:47 PM

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View PostBrushWolf, on 23 February 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

 

Most pilots set their convergence to something around 500 feet for wing mounted weapons.

 

250m was considered a "magic distance" by the British.

 

But was watching something with the Tuskegee Airmen, and one of those guys had his outer guns at 250m, and his inner guns at 450m.


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FryaDuck #44 Posted 24 February 2014 - 12:07 AM

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Go here, the WWII Fighter Gun Debate

 

Equalizing the range of all weapons would severely neuter cannon armament if corresponding damage were not significantly increased. The MGs, HMGs and Cannon have different ranges in game partially due to damage factors. If the ranges were equalized and there corresponding damage adjusted then people would scream about being 1 shot.

 

This may well represent the truth of reality but not in a game based on hit points.


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Cruiser_Katori #45 Posted 24 February 2014 - 12:21 AM

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View PostDirizon, on 23 February 2014 - 09:51 PM, said:

9mm Luger has bad performance because of a number of things. 9mm Luger is a handgun cartridge, made for close encounters. The bullet shape has not been made for extended flight, nor is it's subsonic velocity. The bullet weight is a bit heavy, but a lot of the 9mm rounds are hollow points, made to maim or kill by delivering hydrostatic shock and organ damage through bullet deformation and expansion. Hence it has a softer build. lncreasing your firing barrel, for instance using an MP5 to fire the 9mm round instead of a Glock 17, or a Kel-Tec carbine - whatever does increase the bullet velocity and overall range, but the bullet has its maximum parameters and the improvements are not great. The exact same thing goes for a O.357 magnum, fired out of a 1894 marlin repeater instead of a Colt revolver. But ti does not matter what barrel is used, be it 6in or 24in in length, a 9mm Luger ammunition really doe snot improve in penetration simply because the bullet was not designed to penetrate. The flight characteristics and range can improve slightly.

Uh, no.

1) 9x19mm is supersonic, some specialized loadings for use with supressors are subsonic. Generally, 9x19mm bullets are light, I think you have 9x19 and .45ACP mixed up.

2) 9x19 DOES NOT cause hydrostatic shock, and most military loadings are ball.

3) 9x19 P+ has similar KE at the muzzle from a 16in carbine as a .357S&W mag at the muzzle from a 6in pistol barrel. Heavy .357S&W mag loadings from a carbine can be equivalent to med-light 30-30 loadings at the muzzle.


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WulfNose #46 Posted 24 February 2014 - 12:27 AM

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Zen35 #47 Posted 24 February 2014 - 12:37 AM

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Believe it or not.....

 

Croyd has actually hit on a legit issue.....Basically make the guns do the same damage?????.....No....

 

Maybe real in the RNG factor of the weapons would be a bit better.....

 

Now granted we all know:

45mm do more damage than the 37mm 

37mm do more damage than the 30mm

30mm do more damage than the 20mm

..You get the idea....

 

But please explain this scenario.... I've run into it all to often at different tiers,,,

For example:

 

Lets for examples sake .... You internets speeds are the same....

100-FPS  30ms Ping Time

 

You are flying a Corsair with 4 - 20mm cannons...using AP rounds

You dive on a Mustang and score numerous hits.....

However....the mustang escaped with little to no damage done......

The mustang maneuvers.... Opens up with the 4 - 50 cal machine guns.... using AP rounds also.....Instant death  .......and I mean instant

Only a few hits and the Corsair is dead....

 

Now who should have won that battle?...... Of course the Corsair due to hit more powerful cannons.....

But there is a sub program on the server that determines how much damage each pilots guns will do

 

In other words... The server has said "Corsair you will do 10x damage.....and Mustang you will do 50x damage"

The scale will change each game....

 

This is the RNG factor that will drive many pilots insane....... This is the part that needs to be fixed.....

If you have played the test server..... It brings the RNG factor in a bit...... But it still needs to be "tweaked" a bit....



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WulfNose #48 Posted 24 February 2014 - 12:42 AM

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Once you make everything the same as everything else each pilot will only need one plane. Problem Solved. Is this RNG documented? Wulf

Dirizon #49 Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:13 AM

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View Postcmmdrsigma1, on 24 February 2014 - 12:21 AM, said:

Uh, no.

1) 9x19mm is supersonic, some specialized loadings for use with supressors are subsonic. Generally, 9x19mm bullets are light, I think you have 9x19 and .45ACP mixed up.

2) 9x19 DOES NOT cause hydrostatic shock, and most military loadings are ball.

3) 9x19 P+ has similar KE at the muzzle from a 16in carbine as a .357S&W mag at the muzzle from a 6in pistol barrel. Heavy .357S&W mag loadings from a carbine can be equivalent to med-light 30-30 loadings at the muzzle.

 

*Uh, yes*

1) 45 ACP generally has loadings fire at 35Om/s. That is not much slower than 9mm Luger. l don't have anything mixed up.

 

2) 9mm Luger is typically a law enforcement and military urban use ammunition. Meant for low collateral damage and fewer ricochets. Although ball ammunition types do exist and were heavily used by the Wehrmacht and their MP4Os, hollow points are now far more common. And these hit targets, expand, and cause hydrostatic shock.

 

3) Muzzle energy does not mean penetration. At any rate, that is around a 4OO J increase, along the lines of a revolver .357 mag or .327 Fed Mag. But if you are using a 16in barrel, slightly shorter than a M1 carbine, you could be using a far superior round for the job. .357 mag coming out a 2Oin barrel is travelling at 55Om/s, a good 15% increase from typical colt revolvers. But again, you could still be using a more superior round for the job.

 

 



eggplant84 #50 Posted 24 February 2014 - 04:39 AM

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View PostCroyd_Crenson, on 23 February 2014 - 07:36 PM, said:

My suggestion has nothing to do with changing any firepower stats.

If all gun ranges were the same,  that wouldn't change anything as far as firepower goes.

Planes that rely mostly on firepower due to their inability to out-turn or outrun other planes would actually get a boost rather than a nerf.

I'm trying to think of which exact planes you are talking about, you have only mentioned the 262 in your post. The 262 would still have its boom and zoom capabilities, it can still outclimb anything in it's tier, and can still go head on with other planes with devastating effects.

Let's say a 262 goes head-on with a p-51h . Are you saying that 4x 30 mm wont stil be as devestating against 6x12mm's?

 

The British heavy line and the Russian Attack plane line would both serve to get a buff. All of the guns that they carry ,that are shorter range than their larger caliber guns, would be hitting at the same time.

Mosquito for example would be a lot better if all it's guns hit out to the same range.

The IL's line would take out ground targets a lot faster if their guns all had the same range as well.

 

If you read this please give me an example of what exact planes you are refering to that rely solely on their firepower.

 

 

 

Firepower stats include effective range, eliminating different ranges on all weapons, can't mean anything else but all weapons having the same range. So, that I'm clear, if I am understanding:

.30 calibers being the smallest guns in the game, (7.62's, 7.92's, .303's, etc.)

Would have no greater or lesser range than any 50 caliber type weapons, (12.7's-13mm, etc.) and or cannons (20-45mm)

 

Now assuming this is correct, this would be a direct nerf to the power of some planes/lines. For instance:

 

BnZ: Look at a majority of this type of plane, and ask yourself, which use cannons, and which don't. You'll find the closest thing to BnZ that doesn't is the Blenheim. Now while maybe forced to at times, it is a poor BnZ plane, why? Compared to it's cannon armed counter-parts, 109B's and 110B's & C's, given your pilot is just as upgraded, and plane just as upgraded, it has nothing but MG's. A key part to being able to BnZ well is to maintain your altitude, and sacrifice as little of it as possible. In the early tiers, you might get away with this, in the later, you cannot. In either case it can be most certainly a death sentence for the aircraft. Now, if the range of the 20mm's get nerfed to the firing range of any .30 caliber type weapon, this effectively forces the BnZ'er to come about 300m or so closer, from the original point of fire they were previously capable of. Now, your taking a plane that has it's strong points of high altitude, usually pretty decent, or good speed, and high damage, high range guns, and forcing it to play in altitudes where it's weaknesses most significantly effect it, like poor maneuverability, and massive speed bleed at lower altitudes.

 

Now the 262 I mentioned as a candidate that makes your idea seem appealing since many people have a problem with them. However while strong as it is, it also has severe weaknesses, chief among them, it turns like a brick. Going head to head, in anything, with anything, against this plane is just foolish, unless you plan to barrel role in which case you already are capable of dealing with this plane. I do the same in some of my planes that have to fight them, but their is simpler way. 262's being the powerhouse they are confident in one thing for sure, if your not a 262, or some quad 30mm wielding aircraft, your toast. Flawed thinking. While half correct, most planes are in the described head on situation, toast. Unfortunately, a rocket > any plane. Only takes one to kill, possibly more to ensure the hit with, but head 262's don't tend to turn much when they see that little weak plane in front of em' and by the time they see the rocket, there movin' to fast divin' in. Not to mention, rockets go faster than any plane, are we to reduce their flight speed next? To match the guns?

 

Now the exception to this would be the P51 line, but this plane has advantages comparable/over many other BnZ'ers, and is far from a severely handicapped plane.

 

Now you wrote:

 

View PostCroyd_Crenson, on 23 February 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

Having differences in range due to caliber is an imbalance in this game.

This will solve a lot of the balancing issues that are definately going on with this game.

Examples

7mm has about half the range of 20 mm

12mm has about half the range of 30mm

7mm guns face of against planes of the same tier that have 20mm but are severely handicapped due to their range,same with 12mm and 30mm.

I see in the patch notes a lot of planes are being buffed, it would be simpler to make all the ranges the same but keep their traveling/flight times the same.

 

Yes planes with reduced range guns are somewhat handicapped, if caught not paying attention to their surroundings, or flying higher or lower than they should be, out of their optimum performance areas.

 

All of those are reasons why the handicap exists, just like the fighters that have the advantage of these gun ranges, attempting to use said advantage in a way like, flying higher or lower than they should be, out of their optimum performance areas, or not paying attention to their surroundings.

 

I know you play the Jappos, I've seen you do so quite well recently while our team crucified you for doing so. I was the only one their saying you were playing to your advantage. Now I got my first gorovets in the same plane line, the A6M2. Now that said you and I both know, and don't have to [edited]each other, that this line suffers greatly from being pretty damn slow as far as planes go. Everyone knows that, but two things they got are good guns, and good turning. Now a BnZ comes through, attempts to kill you, you evade and turn, and put some damage on or outright kill the offender. However shrink your gun range down to that of MG's, and you have just effectively nerfed your turning on your attacking BnZ, into another useless piece of the game. I don't say the game is entirely balanced, but this part of it is the last part that needs adjustment. If the range of guns is what is killing you, and keeping you down, then quite honestly your flying whatever plane it is your in, wrong.

 

However, we both know your not incapable of flying a plane to it's fullest potential. Standardizing all guns to one range would destroy quite a bit of variety in existing planes. The problem with this game, is that it's to arcade-like as it is. People want simple games on devices, and smart-phones. Detailed, and high variation games are the winners of computer and console systems, especially online. More than one MMO has sealed their fate doing things like this to simplify game play.

 

 



SkyWolf__WM #51 Posted 24 February 2014 - 04:56 AM

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View PostCroyd_Crenson, on 23 February 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

Having differences in range due to caliber is an imbalance in this game.

This will solve a lot of the balancing issues that are definately going on with this game.

Examples

7mm has about half the range of 20 mm

12mm has about half the range of 30mm

7mm guns face of against planes of the same tier that have 20mm but are severely handicapped due to their range,same with 12mm and 30mm.

I see in the patch notes a lot of planes are being buffed, it would be simpler to make all the ranges the same but keep their traveling/flight times the same.

 

 

 

 

No


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Cruiser_Katori #52 Posted 24 February 2014 - 08:24 AM

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View PostDirizon, on 24 February 2014 - 01:13 AM, said:

 

*Uh, yes*

1) 45 ACP generally has loadings fire at 35Om/s. That is not much slower than 9mm Luger. l don't have anything mixed up.

 

2) 9mm Luger is typically a law enforcement and military urban use ammunition. Meant for low collateral damage and fewer ricochets. Although ball ammunition types do exist and were heavily used by the Wehrmacht and their MP4Os, hollow points are now far more common. And these hit targets, expand, and cause hydrostatic shock.

 

3) Muzzle energy does not mean penetration. At any rate, that is around a 4OO J increase, along the lines of a revolver .357 mag or .327 Fed Mag. But if you are using a 16in barrel, slightly shorter than a M1 carbine, you could be using a far superior round for the job. .357 mag coming out a 2Oin barrel is travelling at 55Om/s, a good 15% increase from typical colt revolvers. But again, you could still be using a more superior round for the job.

 

 

1) From wikipedia: Slowest load for 9x19 luger= 360m/s, all other loadings hit 390m/s+. My steel cased Tula range ammo gets about 390m/s, the defensive handloads I get from my buddies hit about 410-430m/s. Again from wikipedia, as I don't use and .45s: .45ACP hits 373m/s TOPS with a 185 grain slug, my guess is that is a P+ load. The rest are around 250 to 330m/s. Kinda a big difference.

 

2) Hydrostatic shock is caused by the colapse of an unusually large temporary cavity created by a high-velocity projectile moving through flesh, hence the saying "you use a pistol to fight your way to a (usually rifle, some say shotgun, depends on your long gun of choice)". The only pistol rounds I would normally expect to see hydrostatic shock from would be stuff like .357 SIG, 7.62x25 Tokarev, and 5.7x28mm. Hollowpoints only increase the "energy dump" ability of a round by causing it to expand and cause a larger permanent cavity. The shock from the sudden formation of the permanent cavity may cause a significant temporary cavity to occur, but this depends on grain weight, velocity, permanent cavity size, etc. Non-expanding, or ball ammo, is THE ONY kind of anti-personel ammo allowed under the Hauge Convention of 1899, and NATO militaries do not use expanding ammo. Police primarally use expanding ammo because they don't need to worry about presonal armor as much, and are more likely to be shooting at somebody hopped up on drugs; this is the reason most citizens who use/carry firearms for defense use hollowpoint and/or fragable ammo. Ball ammo is VERY common, because milsurp is ALL ball, and ammo companies like Tula make cheap ball for practice and bugdet ammo.

 

3) I was not talking about penetration, I was talking about KE. TTAG already did somthing on this read here: http://www.thetrutha...-vs-357-magnum/

I suggest going through the whole article, it's a good read. But basically what is happening is the longer barrel on the carbine gives the powder more room to burn and thus a more complete burn, giving the same grain weight and charge more velocity from the carbine barrel (and interestingly enough, a bit less noise and muzzle flash because the powder gasses are slightly cooler and less compressed when they exit the barrel).

 

Edit: exquizee mie misspillingz, i need zzzzzz.......


Edited by cmmdrsigma1, 24 February 2014 - 08:26 AM.

Save the Skywhales (that includes the Skorcas)!!!

Less RNG, More skill: Revert to 4.1 TODAY!!!


Demon93IT #53 Posted 24 February 2014 - 09:23 AM

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I missed why the subject became the pistol caliber rounds. There are many differences:

1)The shape is different: the larger caliber rounds are more aerodynamic

2)The the amount of powder is larger so the energy release is much higher

3)The pistol caliber rounds are designed to operate in close quarters while the 0.303(or any large caliber round except the shot gun ones) is designed for long range.

 

Now back to the main issue. Personally i don't recall the effective range of most of the guns used back then, i recall that the Germans wouldn't fire their Mk 108 from long range because it was quite inaccurate. This is caused by many factors:

-The bullet is heavier so the bullet drops faster

-The speed is low so the air drag caused by the surface of the round will slow it down quite rapidly

 

Of course i don't say to implement its effective range(around 100 metres) but at least to cut the range to a more realistic, let's say 500 metres. Would be a nerf? If you consider nerf more realistic ranges yeah but to me it could give more importance to close quarter fights. It would give a huge advantage to TnB planes against BnZ ones(especially German ones): as for now a BnZ plane has plenty of time to make corrections due to the fact that it has enough space to do it.

 

If the effective range is reduced to 500 metres for the "low velocity" rounds, 700 metres to the "medium velocity" rounds and 700+ to the "high velocity" rounds the space is reduced and, as a consequence, the time in which the player can make corrections. It would increase the difficulty in performing BnZ(which became too dominant, especially at high tiers) giving on the other hand some chances to TnB planes. This last category wouldn't suffer as the BnZ simply because a proper TnB fights close to the target for most of the time(at least that's the goal). It would be bad balancing these tactics? Personally i think not, simply because the pure BnZ fighter disappeared with the last one standing being the MiG 31. Same goes for the HF class but that's another story



Niblets #54 Posted 24 February 2014 - 12:30 PM

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So... like in cod you can throw a knife all the way across the map and kill someone. This seems to suggest that at the beginning of a match if you turn your plane up and fire the bullets can go all the way across the map and hit the other team.


Croyd_Crenson #55 Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:02 PM

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Eggplant84 +1 to you sir. It only took 3 pages for someone to explain why it would be bad to have all the ranges the same.

Some things I still disagree with though.

This game is geared in favor of Boom and Zoom planes. I play BnZ as much as I play turn fighters and it is very apparent that BnZ has too much of an advantage of over turn fighters.

As for how you were saying planes would have to change their styles a little, well that's part of balancing the game.

Being that the planes with the best statistics are BnZ planes (262, me410, 110c, and the strongest one of all, the BF110B)it would seem they need a nerf , this is the best way I can think of without actually doing anything to the planes themselves.

As far as turn fighters being nerfed if the ranges were all the same , in that you are wrong, they would actually be buffed.

Instead of only hitting with their higher caliber guns at 700m , they would hit with all guns on, let's say a BnZ plane that is flying away from them.

 

I see you and a few other people also think I ment for the ranges to get shorter.

When I say all ranges should be the same , I mean they should be set to the maximum , which is around 1200 meters I believe.

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Croyd_Crenson, 24 February 2014 - 01:14 PM.

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Demon93IT #56 Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:50 PM

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View PostCroyd_Crenson, on 24 February 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

Eggplant84 +1 to you sir. It only took 3 pages for someone to explain why it would be bad to have all the ranges the same.

Some things I still disagree with though.

This game is geared in favor of Boom and Zoom planes. I play BnZ as much as I play turn fighters and it is very apparent that BnZ has too much of an advantage of over turn fighters.

As for how you were saying planes would have to change their styles a little, well that's part of balancing the game.

Being that the planes with the best statistics are BnZ planes (262, me410, 110c, and the strongest one of all, the BF110B)it would seem they need a nerf , this is the best way I can think of without actually doing anything to the planes themselves.

As far as turn fighters being nerfed if the ranges were all the same , in that you are wrong, they would actually be buffed.

Instead of only hitting with their higher caliber guns at 700m , they would hit with all guns on, let's say a BnZ plane that is flying away from them.

 

I see you and a few other people also think I ment for the ranges to get shorter.

When I say all ranges should be the same , I mean they should be set to the maximum , which is around 1200 meters I believe.

 

 

 

 

 

If you consider the fact that increasing the range helps the TnB you're wrong, here's why.

 

Let's make an example: a diving P-51D(BnZ) vs an A7M(TnB), both stock(the encyclopedia isn't working properly so i have to use the stock values). The P-51D is diving at its maximum speed(870 km/h, 241.66 m/s). Here are the burst lenght considering the different ranges: 1200(yours), 800(the actual) and 700 metres(a plausible range considering both caliber and muzzle velocity).

-1200 metres: 4.96 seconds

-800 metres: 3.31seconds

-700: 2.89 seconds

 

With 1200 metres as fixed range the burst is longer by 1.65 seconds which is a potential damage per second of 128.7. This dps alone is 62.78% of the overall HP amount of the A7M = it's less likely that it will survive long enough to let the P-51D overshoot, turn and fire back.

 

With the range lowered on the other hand the potential damage is lower and the chances to avoid are more due to the fact that the P-51D hasn't enough time to make corrections.

 

Of course this is just an example and it's not perfect, simply because it doesn't cover every possible match up(it would be quite time consuming)



xMADDMANNx #57 Posted 24 February 2014 - 06:30 PM

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View PostCroyd_Crenson, on 24 February 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

Eggplant84 +1 to you sir. It only took 3 pages for someone to explain why it would be bad to have all the ranges the same.

Some things I still disagree with though.

This game is geared in favor of Boom and Zoom planes. I play BnZ as much as I play turn fighters and it is very apparent that BnZ has too much of an advantage of over turn fighters.

As for how you were saying planes would have to change their styles a little, well that's part of balancing the game.

Being that the planes with the best statistics are BnZ planes (262, me410, 110c, and the strongest one of all, the BF110B)it would seem they need a nerf , this is the best way I can think of without actually doing anything to the planes themselves.

As far as turn fighters being nerfed if the ranges were all the same , in that you are wrong, they would actually be buffed.

Instead of only hitting with their higher caliber guns at 700m , they would hit with all guns on, let's say a BnZ plane that is flying away from them.

 

I see you and a few other people also think I ment for the ranges to get shorter.

When I say all ranges should be the same , I mean they should be set to the maximum , which is around 1200 meters I believe.

 

 

 

 

 

BnZ is just a tactic TnB is just a tactic.

If you getting shot down as you do 200 tight turns in a row..

you may want to re-think your tactics.

To tell people "how" to fly what tactics to use. then telling the game maker that only 1 form of any tactic should be used is overboard (this is for all players not just 1 to read).

If you like to fly only TnB thats your call your dime i support your wish. Plz dont tell people that we need no BnZ less BnZ. get yourself high cover and play the game keep your SA up for the 110's the 209's the 410's the 262's

If your airframe cant get anywhere near the alt or speed of the enemy in the room...it was your call to mount that plane and go into battle plz remember there are other planes you can choose from.

Every player can play this game the way they want BnZ or TnB.

 

BnZ OP? there is a reason why P40's in china NEVER turned with a zero.. Hit it and fly away is what they did boom and zoom away....Its because that tactic is how to win over a TNB plane..

 

if you choose to TnB you give up the abillity to counter a BnZ without wingmen. if you like to out turn every plane in the game dont get mad when people wont fight your fight. TnB players can TnB all they wish. fact is me myself i dont cry about how i cant outturn a a6m in my 109..the a6m or TnB player should undersatnd they give up BnZ for hyper-turn abillity. live with what you get in return. a BnZ player 109Z, , 110, ect gives up the chance to turn fight.  learn what you can / cant do.

 

Plz all take some time and read this.. this is the basic tactic of how to win at any air combat..no matter what game arcade or Sim the simple rules there work IRL as well as in any air combat game.

 

http://net.lib.byu.edu/estu/wwi/comment/dicta-b.html



Demon93IT #58 Posted 24 February 2014 - 07:13 PM

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View PostxMADDMANNx, on 24 February 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

BnZ is just a tactic TnB is just a tactic.

If you getting shot down as you do 200 tight turns in a row..

you may want to re-think your tactics.

To tell people "how" to fly what tactics to use. then telling the game maker that only 1 form of any tactic should be used is overboard (this is for all players not just 1 to read).

If you like to fly only TnB thats your call your dime i support your wish. Plz dont tell people that we need no BnZ less BnZ. get yourself high cover and play the game keep your SA up for the 110's the 209's the 410's the 262's

If your airframe cant get anywhere near the alt or speed of the enemy in the room...it was your call to mount that plane and go into battle plz remember there are other planes you can choose from.

Every player can play this game the way they want BnZ or TnB.

 

BnZ OP? there is a reason why P40's in china NEVER turned with a zero.. Hit it and fly away is what they did boom and zoom away....Its because that tactic is how to win over a TNB plane..

 

if you choose to TnB you give up the abillity to counter a BnZ without wingmen. if you like to out turn every plane in the game dont get mad when people wont fight your fight. TnB players can TnB all they wish. fact is me myself i dont cry about how i cant outturn a a6m in my 109..the a6m or TnB player should undersatnd they give up BnZ for hyper-turn abillity. live with what you get in return. a BnZ player 109Z, , 110, ect gives up the chance to turn fight.  learn what you can / cant do.

 

Plz all take some time and read this.. this is the basic tactic of how to win at any air combat..no matter what game arcade or Sim the simple rules there work IRL as well as in any air combat game.

 

http://net.lib.byu.edu/estu/wwi/comment/dicta-b.html

There's a reason why the 110s, 410s and so on were used as night fighters: during daylight they got their tails kicked badly by light fighters. Are they kicked ingame? Well if they use their 30 seconds of boost they can climb almost as fast as the Me 163.

 

Now to the Zero: several pilots died because the Zero BnZed them. This was fixed by the arrival of the F6F which was equal in climbing ability. Sure the Zero is not as fast but saying that it's a pure TnB is wrong. BTW BnZ tactic and HF class stop to exist



Croyd_Crenson #59 Posted 24 February 2014 - 07:16 PM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

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View PostxMADDMANNx, on 24 February 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

BnZ is just a tactic TnB is just a tactic.

If you getting shot down as you do 200 tight turns in a row..

you may want to re-think your tactics.

To tell people "how" to fly what tactics to use. then telling the game maker that only 1 form of any tactic should be used is overboard (this is for all players not just 1 to read).

If you like to fly only TnB thats your call your dime i support your wish. Plz dont tell people that we need no BnZ less BnZ. get yourself high cover and play the game keep your SA up for the 110's the 209's the 410's the 262's

If your airframe cant get anywhere near the alt or speed of the enemy in the room...it was your call to mount that plane and go into battle plz remember there are other planes you can choose from.

Every player can play this game the way they want BnZ or TnB.

 

BnZ OP? there is a reason why P40's in china NEVER turned with a zero.. Hit it and fly away is what they did boom and zoom away....Its because that tactic is how to win over a TNB plane..

 

if you choose to TnB you give up the abillity to counter a BnZ without wingmen. if you like to out turn every plane in the game dont get mad when people wont fight your fight. TnB players can TnB all they wish. fact is me myself i dont cry about how i cant outturn a a6m in my 109..the a6m or TnB player should undersatnd they give up BnZ for hyper-turn abillity. live with what you get in return. a BnZ player 109Z, , 110, ect gives up the chance to turn fight.  learn what you can / cant do.

 

Plz all take some time and read this.. this is the basic tactic of how to win at any air combat..no matter what game arcade or Sim the simple rules there work IRL as well as in any air combat game.

 

http://net.lib.byu.edu/estu/wwi/comment/dicta-b.html

I'm trying to think of how to respond to your post.

Perhaps it shouldn't be responded to, it looks like a guide.

Maybe you could post that in the right section.

This is the "Suggestions" forum.


If the newspaper only has good news ; then only good men are in jail. -- quote from one of America's founding fathers

 


Heibges #60 Posted 24 February 2014 - 08:32 PM

    Second Lieutenant

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The thing is...

 

Not one other flying game that I can think of differentiated range of cannons and MG's since the "Maximum Effective Range" is about 3 -4 times greater than  Practical Effective Range.  Can anyone think of one?

 

The bonus of the cannon is the damage, the negative is the lower muzzle velocity which makes deflection shooting a lot more difficult.  It seemed like in BETA the cannons did a lot more damage.

 

Why have a feature that not one single  WWII flying game in 30  years has had?  Just another thing that confuses players who have ever played a flight game, or even flown the planes in Battlefield.

 

The "Gears of War" damage model they put in late in BETA really neutered the power of the cannon.


"If the Healer gets killed it's the Tank's fault.  If the Tank gets killed it's the Healer's fault.  If the DPS get killed it's their own fault." - various
 




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