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Good watch if this don't pump you up nothing will


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AdmiralKird #21 Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:21 PM

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While the show Dogfights is very entertaining, bear in mind biplanes of WW1 do not have enough torque to be able to pull off the maneuvers shown in that video. Dogfights will also do this with many combat videos, showcasing combat descriptions with 'video game' physics.

 

WW1 planes had extreme maneuverability, and could do crazy acrobatics in the air, but the scene depicted here of a plane spinning around 180*, stopping in its spot, powering upwards and toppling over is not possible without a super high thrust to weight ratio that wasn't possible with piston engines of the day. If a plane was to do a 180 and stop its forward momentum, it would have to go from 100mph to 0 in a short few seconds. The forces necessary to do this would tear the plane apart, and the rudders on those planes were not large enough to execute such a quick turn without completely stalling and toppling towards the earth. In a more basic sense, the energy necessary to take something from 100mph to 0mph, to 0mph to 100mph is roughly identical. Had a biplane been about to whip its tail around and go from 100mph to 0mph, then it should be able to take off in about 10 feet, yet...runways exist. Newer biplanes with jet/rocket assists can do things like this, but not in the 1910's.

 

I don't doubt Voss did something such as executing a hard turn around with a wider arch with a canyon turn that stunned the opposing pilots but had he done whats shown in that video he would be dead either through structural failure or just stalled into an uncontrollable spin for a few seconds, enough to make it a sitting target as he regained control after the Allied aircraft turned around.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_Turn

 




Jiri_Starrider said:
IMO you're hamstrung by WG's deep-rooted "I've got a secret" complex.

Tesla67 #22 Posted 18 February 2014 - 12:04 AM

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+1.  Very good video.  Of course now I hope WG adds a tri-plane as a low tier prem.

TheGauntman #23 Posted 18 February 2014 - 12:55 AM

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View PostAdmiralKird, on 17 February 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:

While the show Dogfights is very entertaining, bear in mind biplanes of WW1 do not have enough torque to be able to pull off the maneuvers shown in that video. Dogfights will also do this with many combat videos, showcasing combat descriptions with 'video game' physics.

 

WW1 planes had extreme maneuverability, and could do crazy acrobatics in the air, but the scene depicted here of a plane spinning around 180*, stopping in its spot, powering upwards and toppling over is not possible without a super high thrust to weight ratio that wasn't possible with piston engines of the day. If a plane was to do a 180 and stop its forward momentum, it would have to go from 100mph to 0 in a short few seconds. The forces necessary to do this would tear the plane apart, and the rudders on those planes were not large enough to execute such a quick turn without completely stalling and toppling towards the earth. In a more basic sense, the energy necessary to take something from 100mph to 0mph, to 0mph to 100mph is roughly identical. Had a biplane been about to whip its tail around and go from 100mph to 0mph, then it should be able to take off in about 10 feet, yet...runways exist. Newer biplanes with jet/rocket assists can do things like this, but not in the 1910's.

 

I don't doubt Voss did something such as executing a hard turn around with a wider arch with a canyon turn that stunned the opposing pilots but had he done whats shown in that video he would be dead either through structural failure or just stalled into an uncontrollable spin for a few seconds, enough to make it a sitting target as he regained control after the Allied aircraft turned around.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_Turn

 

So you are saying that the historians and experts on the show said it was ok to lie? This can't happen but it looks cool so its ok. 



PrettyWoods #24 Posted 19 February 2014 - 05:05 AM

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View PostTheGauntman, on 17 February 2014 - 06:55 PM, said:

So you are saying that the historians and experts on the show said it was ok to lie? This can't happen but it looks cool so its ok. 

 

I'd say more along the lines of:

 

1.  Hey, this is a cool historical dogfight, let's make an episode about it.

2.  Interview a bunch of historians and get them to describe it.

3.  Take interviews, lay out the full story to match with the allotted time for the episode, figure out how much of the fight can be animated.

4a.  Storyboard the fight based off the descriptions, let the animators roll with it.

4b.  Animation team...look up what the planes looked like, listen to the description given by the historians, complete an animation that's exciting enough to keep viewers that don't care about historical dogfights interested enough that they don't ask their significant other to change the channel.

5.  Many months later...historical interviewees and aviation experts see the show as it's televised.  Facepalm at the way some of the planes are shown to behave.

 

(For example, that zoom climb they talked about?  I believe that was 1,000 feet per minute vertical climb.  The straight vertical ascent they showed in the video was quite a bit quicker than that)

 

-------------

 

Overall though, I loved the video and it got me to spend a night on reading up about the old great war aces and planes again : )

 

Edit, as thanks, have this video.  It's an older one, but still one of my favorite Thunderbird stunt videos.

 


Edited by PrettyWoods, 19 February 2014 - 05:08 AM.





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