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Supremacy killing wowp


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mizer67 #41 Posted 14 January 2014 - 07:05 PM

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View PostDirtyWings, on 14 January 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

Funny all of you are experts now... i dont care that there is a supremacy.. the timer is way too fast. its exaggerated. For all you that say this is based on war.. lets say your at war in a dogfight 5v5 your country is losing by supremacy so now both countries stop shooting at each other and go home cus 1 team is winning.. ya great idea.. lets give up and let the others win?? And none of you get it... im frustrated cus there was a time to test all this and its not right after the game goes live.. game goes live theirs not supposed to be big changes like this but hell this aint my game if they want to follow this direction good luck to them.. They went and made a test server and everyone testing it said the supremacy was too fast.. what did they do... put it on the game right away. Now that mean they hardly even thought about this before doing it..

And btw go after a GA in your fighter at beginning of game you'll lose all your energy a fighter will just come in dive on you and pwn you in 1 pass..
Kill the fighters.. if your not quick enough youll lose by supremacy.. there is no middle.. sure sometimes you get lucky and get time to finish(like i said you get lucky)
Player skill hardly has an effect on the game now..

 

I agree with the sentiment r.e. this should have been tested more and the devs. should have listened to player feedback and made changes more gradually. Obviously I am ignorant of if the supertesters had a chance to test these changes first though.

 

I still like to think there's a middle ground (destroy X nubmer of targets, destroy these objectives and/or increase the supremacy reset % for an air kill) that gives GA a goal/purpose, promotes more tactical gameplay and makes everyone most people happy.



QuickSilver_1 #42 Posted 14 January 2014 - 07:11 PM

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View PostZapperguy, on 14 January 2014 - 01:03 AM, said:

 

Answer to the first question: No, it is not now, nor was it ever intended to be only "a dogfighting game". It entails the aircraft involved in WWII which includes GAs. Your pretending that GAs and supremacy didn't exist prior to the last patch doesn't mean the planes weren't always there, they are now just becoming relevant.

 

Isn't the "hole game" what Buffalo Bill liked to play in Silence of the Lambs?

 

Hole: a hollow place in a solid body or surface.

Whole: all of; entire.

 

Thank goodness I'm not your English teacher. :teethhappy:

 


So, if you were to play basketball it would be all about how many baskets you could make, not trying to help your team win the game? Great unselfish attitude you have there. We know, it's all about you.

If you really think GAs are as easy as shooting non-moving targets and watching the HP counter, why not actually try to contribute to a match in one and see just how "easy" it is to rack up those points? After being abandoned by your team (who like to dogfight) you are left alone to be mercilessly shredded by the HFs of the enemy team. Seriously, before you claim how easy it is to win with GAs now, try one yourself.

 

If personal stats are of the utmost importance then why play a team-based MMO game when you don't care about the team? 

:facepalm:


I don't play basketball ! I play a fighter game. I help my team by shooting down planes.  are you out of your mind that's the point in basketball getting baskets!!!  like JORDAN. bad choice!

Yes it is about what i like to do in this game. the game has changed  it was about shooting down planes and with help from GA winning the game, not now. no got to watch the clock and chase down GA,

Who are you to tell me what I should do?  I can play any game i want, any way I want!  you want to play the clock game, fine go fly alone and kill non moving targets all you want.

you don't have the right to tell anyone what to do! you have a opinion give IT . Personal attacks are out of line. Your English teacher forgot to teach you manners.

I did fly GA and bombers in open beta!  Not what i like to do.  Its easy to kill non moving targets if you find it hard i can not think of why.  you want to be hero and win the game great. you smile when the fighters forget you and you kill 16 non moving targets. great!! real hard!!    you get beat up by fighters when you alone, that's the game now !!! OH you can't  get fighters to cover you!! maybe they want to dog fight too.  not play the clock game.  you can not get 1 fighter to cover you?? Maybe because most of them want to shoot down planes.   not cover a slow boat to china. That's part of the MMO game now.  so your saying that's the way the game is played no cover for you.  not just me wanting to shoot down plane and i think air wins still win most of the games. I like debating issues but it seems you want to attack people and this is not a spelling bee. I bet you won a lot of them slide rule in pocket and all.

stay on topic and do not do personal attacks and I will not . 


Edited by WhiteTiger_5, 14 January 2014 - 07:12 PM.


QuickSilver_1 #43 Posted 14 January 2014 - 07:19 PM

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Lets take a poll ask everyone, do you want a fighter game or not. did you think this was a fighter game when you joined. ask non members  want to join a fighter game or this clock game. hit target before the clock runs out.

raulv04 #44 Posted 14 January 2014 - 07:22 PM

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OK, WhiteTiger_5, forget your rant, what's your contibution? What would you do to IMPROVE the game? I don't care if you're a pre-alpha tester/designer, the first ever member to register in WoWP or if you just received your account confirmation email. I ask you because you've contributed a big ZERO so far to the discussion; you've only criticized, but haven't offered a solution. So, if you don't like the way WoWP has evolved, go find another game.

 

Edit: I think I'm excessively involved in the forums, because if I have 55 posts and only one month with my account, how come your account is three months older than mine but you only have 140 posts? I'm confused :wacko: Can you explain us that?


Edited by raulv04, 14 January 2014 - 08:54 PM.


tahee59 #45 Posted 14 January 2014 - 08:01 PM

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This is a fighter game there are no true bombers in this game. When I signed up to test this game I knew it was a flying game it did not say it was just air combat .

Now I think this patch made some good changes , before patch you could just b&z and not many could do anything about it , b&z was OP and if you were in one of the OP flight groups you won 80% of the time.

Now if there are some good ground pounders on a team the OP flight groups and b&z have to come down to the ground to fight and you have a chance to win.

Yes they might have over done it a bit but that is how they do it they will most likely bring it back down a bit.

And white tiger5 if you never flew GAA then how do you know it is easy?



lostwingman #46 Posted 14 January 2014 - 08:12 PM

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As much as I enjoy my GA, I'd rather they give us back a good deal of our mobility, remove propeller melee, and compensate with slightly raising the supremacy counter reset amounts.

Ground Attack, the new Arty




raulv04 #47 Posted 14 January 2014 - 08:23 PM

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View Posttahee59, on 14 January 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

Yes they might have over done it a bit but that is how they do it they will most likely bring it back down a bit.

And white tiger5 if you never flew GAA then how do you know it is easy?

That's what I'm talking about. As other posters, including me, said before, the tactical element is very important, but how important? I illustrated a Tier V battle in which I participated as being an "extreme" example of the patched supremacy, and I'm sure a similar situation has happened many other times. This is trial and error, but I think most of us agree that something needs to be toned up or down to find an ideal balance.

 

Forget about WhiteTiger_5, he's a non-contributor to this thread, but I have to agree. Flying a GAA is not easy and I find that difficulty appealing. But it looks to me like GA aircraft are considered by most the black sheep of the family. Everybody (including me) want the thrill of a fight, the adrenaline rush. But as I told a friend of mine yesterday, when I want some "relaxed" flying, I take either my TSh-3 or IL-2 with rear gunner and blast me some ground targets.



raulv04 #48 Posted 14 January 2014 - 08:58 PM

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A little off topic, but now that we're seriously talking about GA aircraft and this shift of supremacy, what about dive bombers? I can only guess that the devs are trying to balance air and ground supremacy in order to introduce more GA aircraft in the form of dive bombers like the Blackburn Skua. Now that would be really, really interesting and appealing.


Edited by raulv04, 14 January 2014 - 08:59 PM.


tahee59 #49 Posted 14 January 2014 - 09:25 PM

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not much better than a ice cold beer and a ground pounder

Heh #50 Posted 14 January 2014 - 09:25 PM

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View Postraulv04, on 14 January 2014 - 07:22 PM, said:

Edit: I think I'm excessively involved in the forums, because if I have 55 posts and only one month with my account, how come your account is three months older than mine but you only have 140 posts? I'm confused :wacko: Can you explain us that?

 

Oh puhlease, you got nothing on me. Seriously, be glad you aren't me.


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View Posthahiha, on , said:


OMG Heh you have had so many posts O_O

raulv04 #51 Posted 14 January 2014 - 09:34 PM

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:teethhappy: ROFL!

QuickSilver_1 #52 Posted 14 January 2014 - 09:53 PM

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View Posttahee59, on 14 January 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

This is a fighter game there are no true bombers in this game. When I signed up to test this game I knew it was a flying game it did not say it was just air combat .

Now I think this patch made some good changes , before patch you could just b&z and not many could do anything about it , b&z was OP and if you were in one of the OP flight groups you won 80% of the time.

Now if there are some good ground pounders on a team the OP flight groups and b&z have to come down to the ground to fight and you have a chance to win.

Yes they might have over done it a bit but that is how they do it they will most likely bring it back down a bit.

And white tiger5 if you never flew GAA then how do you know it is easy?


I flew them in obt.



QuickSilver_1 #53 Posted 14 January 2014 - 09:58 PM

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View Postraulv04, on 14 January 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

OK, WhiteTiger_5, forget your rant, what's your contibution? What would you do to IMPROVE the game? I don't care if you're a pre-alpha tester/designer, the first ever member to register in WoWP or if you just received your account confirmation email. I ask you because you've contributed a big ZERO so far to the discussion; you've only criticized, but haven't offered a solution. So, if you don't like the way WoWP has evolved, go find another game.

 

Edit: I think I'm excessively involved in the forums, because if I have 55 posts and only one month with my account, how come your account is three months older than mine but you only have 140 posts? I'm confused :wacko: Can you explain us that?


I only post when I have something to say.

I do not like the clock being so fast My contribute is slow the clock down. and give the ground targets less value.

And the game is not done yet! it will change again. Come fly with me.  see ya in the air.

 



raulv04 #54 Posted 14 January 2014 - 10:02 PM

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Now we're getting somewhere, WhiteTiger. And what's more, you said it in your own words. The game's not done yet. I would rather say that the game is evolving, and yes, the devs need to tone down the value of ground targets, but this is still all trial and error. Be patient, dude. An analogy: How do you expect a baby to walk when he can barely crawl? It's all a process, man. That's why, be patient. :honoring:

FranzSilas3225 #55 Posted 14 January 2014 - 10:14 PM

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every thing is about supremacy and the glorified epic journey it takes you.
Franz-Silas Proltelaeus Muse

PrettyWoods #56 Posted 15 January 2014 - 08:27 AM

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I guess I could see supremacy being a problem if the majority of matches was decided by it, but really...how often is this happening to you guys?  I see a much higher percentage of GA planes in each match than I do matches won by supremacy.  I see about 3 GA per team on average in the tiers I play.  That means 20% of the planes.  I see supremacy wins about every 10th battle though...10% of the time.  If it was really too strong, shouldn't I be seeing supremacy wins at a greater percentage than the GA planes I'm seeing?

 

This is a fast paced game.  If supremacy was slowed down much more, then it will most likely go back to being relatively pointless.

 

It seems like a lot of the arguments here are against having supremacy at all, which as others have said and I agree with, would greatly limit gameplay and tactics.

 

Just one example, if GA didn't exist, what would replace it to help draw high flyers down?



ELMO_FUDD #57 Posted 16 January 2014 - 02:48 AM

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I like the GA element of the game. I've aced in the TSh-3 twice,once while taking 14 ground targets and winning the game for the team being the "last hope". Heart pounding fun!!!

ELMO_FUDD #58 Posted 16 January 2014 - 02:52 AM

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Also ,Supremacy breaks a tie so two or four guys don,t just fly around waiting for the clock to run out.

frankndeath #59 Posted 16 January 2014 - 03:03 AM

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Supremacy is a ok addition to the game. I think the timer could be slowed down some counts a little to fast.

and I've been in a lot  of wins and losses where supremacy is at 75% and the last plane plays climb and hide for the win.

More times than not the battle is over before the timer is out. 



HairlesMonkyBoy #60 Posted 16 January 2014 - 03:15 AM

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This seems relevant:

HairlesMonkyBoy#1Posted 29 November 2013 - 08:31 PM

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I believe that the current implementation of supremecy is inadequate. I have played a number of games where at the end of the battle one team loses as a result of not being able to find the last player on the enemy team, regardless of that player's aircraft or contribution to the battle. In fact, that last hiding player could be a tier 1 plane in a tier 10 battle that has literally contributed NOTHING to the battle itself, but rather hid the entire game and simply waited for the counter to do its job.This is a broken system. There has to be some better way of keeping GA aircraft relevant to a battle while simultaneously eliminating the situation where a hiding player can win the game for their team. There exists no other game(besides hide and seak of course), where one can do nothing else but hide and somehow secure victory for themselves or their team. I tried to start a discusion on this matter, but the relvant constructive posts where masked by a number of GA players who took this suggestion as a personal attack on their play style and proceded submit a vast number of irrelevent and disrespectful posts. I want this thread to stay on topic. One player in the previous thread who managed to keep his post relevant had this to say:

 

View PostCainG, on 27 November 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

I do agree that hiding is not fun for anyone.  However, without supremacy, what reason do attack planes that are good at destroying buildings but kinda useless in a dogfight currently have for being in the game?  Taking out AA defences doesn't usually seem all that important to me.

 

What I would prefer to see instead of the current supremacy system, is for victory to go to the team that is first to destroy all enemy buildings, (or maybe a certain number of buildings) and if you destroy all enemy planes then it is assumed that you will also destroy all their buildings, so that's an immediate victory as well.  That way, the attack planes still have a chance to get their team victory by destroying buildings, but they can't just hide and wait out a timer once their team mates are all gone, because as long as they haven't destroyed enough buildings yet, you're going to have a pretty good idea of where they want to go, and if they don't go there, they can't win.  They could still hide and wait for a draw when the battle timer runs out, but at least they would not be able to get victory by hiding.

 

The basic idea here, is that there is some less abstract objective that must be reached by both the GA and fighters together. The current system has what I percieve to be a large disjoint between GA play and fighter play, when in reality GAs exist to destroy key ground target, and fighters exist to protect and assist the GAs. If victory results from destroying all ground targets etc, then fighter players would have more incentive to protect ally GAs and destroy enemy GAs, which I think would more closely model reality. I know there are plans for other battle modes in future patches of the game, so perhaps it may be wise to allow players to enter into the battle mode of their choosing as other games (Halo for one) have done in the past. Objective modes and death match modes.


Edited by HairlesMonkyBoy, 16 January 2014 - 03:18 AM.





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