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Supremacy killing wowp


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DirtyWings #1 Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:00 PM

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IS this NOT a dogfighting game??????? Then why is the game soooo carried away with supremacy.  Its supposed to be planes against planes.. in beta this is what it was the hole time.. then we went live everything was still about dogfighting.. But now were not testing anymore and this supremacy patch come out where ground targets are the new thing to do??? I thought we were done the beta part.. WHAT HAPPEN??? and why all of a sudden this isnt about dogfighting anymore? You changed the hole game while you were in live.. beta would of been the time to test this. YES this is frustrating to me.. i play and tested this game allmost a year and there was nothing close to a change like this but now that its live you change it?.. This is no longer a dogfighter.. its just a plane game. I really think you should go back to the old way. Your losing all your regular pilots and seem to not care..

 

 


oldkye #2 Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:04 PM

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The game was built with Ground attack planes and ground targets in it, I think we can safely say it was never a "dogfighting game" or they would have never put those in as they are not purposed to fighting other planes lol.

 

That said I think 1.1 may have over did it some but I don't want it gone completely.



Heh #3 Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:04 PM

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If this was a plane vs plane game, then there would be no sky whales nor ground targets to speak of. Just saying.


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OMG Heh you have had so many posts O_O

triptyx #4 Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:05 PM

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15% might have been too much of a reduction.  50% was far too much IMO.  Maybe up it to 20% or 25%?

mizer67 #5 Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:08 PM

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Rock, paper, scissors.

 

For a long time we've only had rock and scissors. Rocks broke scissors and that was the end of it.

 

Then 1.1 came. Now we have all three. Rock got a nerf through game mechanics so now it's more like shale than granite. A good scissors can break a weak rock sometimes.

 

All that being said, I think the changes to supremacy were drastic and overdone. Unfortunately, I think that's WG's mantra really. They don't do gradual all that well. A more reasonable decision would have been to break the supremacy reset changes in in small increments and see what the data said. On the test server the issues were obvious.



wardogz12 #6 Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:11 PM

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GA needs a purpose. Since you already have HF and LF dogfighting.

 

Kill the GA and escorts and dogfight to your heart content.


 

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tahee59 #7 Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:11 PM

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its world of war planes not world of dog fighting , all you have to do is kill the GAA off

Darcel_Jones #8 Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:14 PM

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I would not worry,in a future patch they will probably change it to somewhere in between "meaningless" and "cheap win".

CrayolaCrayon #9 Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:16 PM

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Supremacy is a bit on the extreme side right now but I think they did that on purpose to test it out. I imagine they'll dial it back slightly in future patches.

HZero #10 Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:20 PM

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You know what...I'm just going to go ahead and say that I like that there are times in a match when I have to look at the map and weigh the supremacy counter and number of planes remaining, and then make a decision as to whether the best way to help win the match is to head to the next furball over or to seek out that GA hidden behind my lines.  I think it adds something to the game, so I'm glad the changes were made, even though I don't fly GA's personally.

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Wolfrum #11 Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:30 PM

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View PostDirtyWings, on 13 January 2014 - 09:00 PM, said:

IS this NOT a dogfighting game??????? Then why is the game soooo carried away with supremacy.  Its supposed to be planes against planes.. in beta this is what it was the hole time.. then we went live everything was still about dogfighting.. But now were not testing anymore and this supremacy patch come out where ground targets are the new thing to do??? I thought we were done the beta part.. WHAT HAPPEN??? and why all of a sudden this isnt about dogfighting anymore? You changed the hole game while you were in live.. beta would of been the time to test this. YES this is frustrating to me.. i play and tested this game allmost a year and there was nothing close to a change like this but now that its live you change it?.. This is no longer a dogfighter.. its just a plane game. I really think you should go back to the old way. Your losing all your regular pilots and seem to not care..

 

However, WoT is not just a tank game, very skilled and tactically sound play can get you a win through capture even when your team is disintegrating around you.

There needs to be more than just Air to Air, and rightfully so otherwise we would all be stuck playing a much more limited amount of Airframes because lets face it, the IL's in their current iteration could not sustain air to air combat.

Why rob everyone of those joys?

 

Every game needs its tactical element, and this game rewards that type of mentality which I think is a good thing. As for players leaving because of this type of game mode? You would probably lose the same if it was not there. So, damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I prefer it, and I am not a ground attack player. I like guarding my base, or covering my Heavies/GA's, it gives me something else to do than just run around shooting in collision prone furballs.

 

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Darcel_Jones #12 Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:48 PM

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View PostHZero, on 13 January 2014 - 09:20 PM, said:

You know what...I'm just going to go ahead and say that I like that there are times in a match when I have to look at the map and weigh the supremacy counter and number of planes remaining, and then make a decision as to whether the best way to help win the match is to head to the next furball over or to seek out that GA hidden behind my lines.  I think it adds something to the game, so I'm glad the changes were made, even though I don't fly GA's personally.

Good point,though my problem with the new system is the way it is changing lesser players mentality about what wins matches.Here's an example,tier 3 match,my team has 4 fighters left their team 3 planes left(and here's the rub,one of them is an FW57)so I suggest we group up and finish them off,two of my teamates say no and start attacking ground targets,now which team do you think reached supremacy first?That's right,theirs did,and I had 6 kills,do you know how crappy it feels to get an ace just to lose the match? 



TheWhiteRaven #13 Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:50 PM

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View Postmizer67, on 13 January 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

Rock, paper, scissors.

 

For a long time we've only had rock and scissors. Rocks broke scissors and that was the end of it.

 

Then 1.1 came. Now we have all three. Rock got a nerf through game mechanics so now it's more like shale than granite. A good scissors can break a weak rock sometimes.

 

All that being said, I think the changes to supremacy were drastic and overdone. Unfortunately, I think that's WG's mantra really. They don't do gradual all that well. A more reasonable decision would have been to break the supremacy reset changes in in small increments and see what the data said. On the test server the issues were obvious.

 

+1 for awesome geological/childhood game references. Carry on sir.

 

Edit for relevance: what everyone else said. The game was too linear before. Making GA relevant opens an entirely new dynamic that means games are more interesting and less straightforward (even if it DOES get dialed back a bit -- I'd be happy with less supremacy, more GA -> Aircraft accuracy, and more XP, but that's a different argument).


Edited by JFitzDela, 13 January 2014 - 09:53 PM.

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Croyd_Crenson #14 Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:51 PM

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View PostHZero, on 13 January 2014 - 04:20 PM, said:

You know what...I'm just going to go ahead and say that I like that there are times in a match when I have to look at the map and weigh the supremacy counter and number of planes remaining, and then make a decision as to whether the best way to help win the match is to head to the next furball over or to seek out that GA hidden behind my lines.  I think it adds something to the game, so I'm glad the changes were made, even though I don't fly GA's personally.


I agree with the above statement.

So many pilots in this game have no situational awareness what so ever.

 

 


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raulv04 #15 Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:58 PM

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I agree with the supremacy win, it gives a tactical element to the fight and sometimes it's fun trying to look for that last plane hiding somewhere in the farthest corner of the map. That being said, I guess it's still a little extreme; I've been in battles in which three or four of us still survive and the supermacy counter is running very quickly because we can't find that frigging GA aircraft. On the other hand, there are guys who are content just shooting ground targets with an LF. I can confirm it; in the Pacific map, one Hellcat was happily trying to destroy targets with its meager firepower (he was one of the last survivors of our team) instead of looking for the other aircraft. When he realized that he couldn't destroy ground targets that quickly and the timer was at about 60%, he went to look for the GA aircraft which was on the other side of the map. Needless to say, we lost. Was I frustrated? Yes, but I moved on to another battle and to my pleasant surprise, we had an epic battle between heavy fighters very high in the air. This game changes a lot, because we ourselves are the variables, and to me, that's very attractive, and if I can have a tactical element to it, that's most welcome, but indeed, the supremacy thing needs to be toned down a bit.

Heibges #16 Posted 13 January 2014 - 10:01 PM

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I used to see them so rarely, that really I don' t think they are that far off.   I do understand that some GA pilots can affect the average, but I only used to see a Supremacy Victory every 20 to 30 games.   Now it is maybe 1 out of 7 or 8.

 

Now I think the rules for Supremacy are a little jenky, but destroying ground targets is the GA's primary mission, and they need their own win condition.   Personally, I think a Demolition Mode would work better, achieve the same thing, and foster more team play.

 

And they still need to get HF into the Base Defense Role, but that is a whole different story.


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HZero #17 Posted 13 January 2014 - 10:13 PM

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View PostDarcel_Jones, on 13 January 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

Good point,though my problem with the new system is the way it is changing lesser players mentality about what wins matches.Here's an example,tier 3 match,my team has 4 fighters left their team 3 planes left(and here's the rub,one of them is an FW57)so I suggest we group up and finish them off,two of my teamates say no and start attacking ground targets,now which team do you think reached supremacy first?That's right,theirs did,and I had 6 kills,do you know how crappy it feels to get an ace just to lose the match? 

 

I do, because I have had to sit around and watch "lesser players" try to strafe GA targets to death with their machine guns while in a Lagg-3, or try to out turn a Zero while in a P-51A with unfired rockets strapped to it.  I think the problem is with the "lesser players" and not with the supremacy counter.   At least with the counter some of those players dead-set on hitting ground targets in something other than an IL are in a better position to contribute overall to the match.

 

In fact, now that I say it that way, I wonder if that wasn't the real move behind the supremacy counter changes all along - a nod in the direction of the portion of the player base that want multi-role aircraft and battles.

 


Dreaming of better days.  When this game had full matches, fiery dogfights, and hope for the future.

 

 


Darcel_Jones #18 Posted 13 January 2014 - 10:23 PM

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View PostHZero, on 13 January 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

 

I do, because I have had to sit around and watch "lesser players" try to strafe GA targets to death with their machine guns while in a Lagg-3, or try to out turn a Zero while in a P-51A with unfired rockets strapped to it.  I think the problem is with the "lesser players" and not with the supremacy counter.   At least with the counter some of those players dead-set on hitting ground targets in something other than an IL are in a better position to contribute overall to the match.

 

In fact, now that I say it that way, I wonder if that wasn't the real move behind the supremacy counter changes all along - a nod in the direction of the portion of the player base that want multi-role aircraft and battles.

 

See the problem was this,supremacy for us at that point in the match was impossible,the 2 I mentioned were in F3F's with no bombs.Yet they still thought they could put us on top in time,and no amount of explanation was changing their minds.Grouping up and killing the last 3 was not only possible but probable.So you may be right that the problem is "lesser"players,but lesser players are always going to exist,an unreasonably fast supremacy counter does not have to. 


Edited by Darcel_Jones, 13 January 2014 - 10:33 PM.


Magnum62 #19 Posted 13 January 2014 - 10:59 PM

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I think GA adds a definite challenge to the game, so that it's not so one dimensional.

Edited by Magnum62, 13 January 2014 - 11:00 PM.


NathanFlightLeader #20 Posted 13 January 2014 - 11:18 PM

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As a GA pilot I can say that I love the current supremacy. If the enemy team keeps winning by supremacy, then your team is making a tactical error by not going after them. In some matches where I am left along I can rack up 12+ ground kills. People need to start realising that GA left alone are lethal, and start targeting/protecting them.
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