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Italy fighter Line


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ComradeBlyat #1 Posted 17 December 2013 - 03:25 PM

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Added Premium Aircraft

 

Despite Italy's poor reputation during WW2, they did make very good fighters. The biggest problem was the small numbers produced due to poor assembly line procedures. 

 

The t7 and t8 may need some fictional or prototype only engines in order to be viable. But all in all here is my proposition for an italian LF line. 

 

Tier 1: Fiat CR.20

 

Tier 2: Fiat CR.32

 

Tier 3: Fiat CR.42

 

 

 

Tier 4: Fiat G.50

Tier 5: Macchi C.202

 

 

Tier 6: C.205 Veltro

Tier 7: Reggiane Re.2005

 

Tier 8: C.205 Orione or possibly the C.206 or 7

 

Tier 9: Caproni Campini Ca.183bis (Prop&Jet Fighter)

 

Tier 10: Aerfer Sagittario 2

 

 

Premiums

Tier 4: CR.42 w/DB601

 

 


Edited by LouisLitt, 23 December 2013 - 03:59 PM.

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oldiowaguy #2 Posted 17 December 2013 - 04:08 PM

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Nice! Would love to fly the Folgore and Veltro!

                                                                    

 


FlakValleyExpress #3 Posted 17 December 2013 - 05:07 PM

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As I understand the Macchi C.202 is a tough opponent to go against. I understand its cannon weaponry is formidable. Of course this is all by reading publish sources and not by personal experience. :eyesup:


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Heh #4 Posted 17 December 2013 - 07:17 PM

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No no, not the CR.42 at tier 2. That thing has a DB 601 upgrade, making it an extremely deadly biplane. Make it tier 3. Hell, maybe 4. CR.32's tier 2 material. CR.20's tier 1 material.

 

Also, get the G.91 out, it was designed after the Korean War. Replace it with the Sagittario 2.


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OMG Heh you have had so many posts O_O

ComradeBlyat #5 Posted 17 December 2013 - 07:25 PM

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View PostHeh, on 17 December 2013 - 07:17 PM, said:

No no, not the CR.42 at tier 2. That thing has a DB 601 upgrade, making it an extremely deadly biplane. Make it tier 3. Hell, maybe 4. CR.32's tier 2 material. CR.20's tier 1 material.

 

Also, get the G.91 out, it was designed after the Korean War. Replace it with the Sagittario 2.

Thank you for the constructive criticism. I have made the changes.

The DB 601 was a one-off engine and does not need to be included in game. 


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Heh #6 Posted 17 December 2013 - 07:34 PM

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View PostLouisLitt, on 17 December 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

Thank you for the constructive criticism. I have made the changes.

The DB 601 was a one-off engine and does not need to be included in game. 

 

Now that I approve of. Make the DB 601 CR.42 a tier 4 prem too. <3

 

Anyway, now we shall wait for the pure Fiat line. :3


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OMG Heh you have had so many posts O_O

ComradeBlyat #7 Posted 17 December 2013 - 07:38 PM

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View PostHeh, on 17 December 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

 

Now that I approve of. Make the DB 601 CR.42 a tier 4 prem too. <3

 

Anyway, now we shall wait for the pure Fiat line. :3

 

I would love a t4 Biplane. Missed my chance on the ar 197.


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eggplant84 #8 Posted 17 December 2013 - 08:48 PM

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They had some tri-engine and twin engine craft that would also make some interesting heavy fighters/GA's too...

Hochstepanzerjager #9 Posted 18 December 2013 - 06:16 PM

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View PostLouisLitt, on 17 December 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

Thank you for the constructive criticism. I have made the changes.

The DB 601 was a one-off engine and does not need to be included in game. 

 

 

The DB 601 is ALREADY in game. Just start looking at the Bf109E, it has both the 601B and the 601N. The Bf109F has the 601E, and the Bf109Z starts with the 601E-1. I won't even start on the BF110's.

 

That engine really wouldn't be a new one.

 

You could include the CR.42DB because it has the DB601A which was the earliest iteration of the 601 line, but you'd have to make a tier 4, regardless of it being premium or researchable.


Edited by Hochstepanzerjager, 18 December 2013 - 06:28 PM.



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Heh #10 Posted 18 December 2013 - 07:33 PM

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View PostHochstepanzerjager, on 18 December 2013 - 06:16 PM, said:

 

 

The DB 601 is ALREADY in game. Just start looking at the Bf109E, it has both the 601B and the 601N. The Bf109F has the 601E, and the Bf109Z starts with the 601E-1. I won't even start on the BF110's.

 

That engine really wouldn't be a new one.

 

You could include the CR.42DB because it has the DB601A which was the earliest iteration of the 601 line, but you'd have to make a tier 4, regardless of it being premium or researchable.

 

I thought he meant the CR 42 that has the DB 601. Of course the DB 601 is in-game, that's the main engine on the Bf 109 F.


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OMG Heh you have had so many posts O_O

ComradeBlyat #11 Posted 19 December 2013 - 12:12 AM

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View PostHeh, on 18 December 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

 

I thought he meant the CR 42 that has the DB 601. Of course the DB 601 is in-game, that's the main engine on the Bf 109 F.

 

Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

Sorry for the confusion.


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ThaHoboStoleMyTank #12 Posted 23 December 2013 - 12:25 PM

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I was just about to suggest an Italian line

glad im not the only one that thought of it, and you already even have  the tiers
great work mate



ComradeBlyat #13 Posted 23 December 2013 - 03:43 PM

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View PostThaHoboStoleMyTank, on 23 December 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

I was just about to suggest an Italian line

glad im not the only one that thought of it, and you already even have  the tiers
great work mate

 

Thanks!

 

The only problem I see with the line I drafted is that it goes back and forth between different plane manufacturers. I think it would be best to try to have 1 line per manufacturer. The low volume of italian planes makes this difficult tough.


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Heh #14 Posted 23 December 2013 - 03:57 PM

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View PostLouisLitt, on 23 December 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

 

Thanks!

 

The only problem I see with the line I drafted is that it goes back and forth between different plane manufacturers. I think it would be best to try to have 1 line per manufacturer. The low volume of italian planes makes this difficult tough.

 

Aside from the Macchis, you could add more Fiats. The Fiat G.55 was as dangerous as the Veltro and the G.56 could outperform the Bf 109G-6.


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OMG Heh you have had so many posts O_O

ComradeBlyat #15 Posted 23 December 2013 - 04:03 PM

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View PostHeh, on 23 December 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

 

Aside from the Macchis, you could add more Fiats. The Fiat G.55 was as dangerous as the Veltro and the G.56 could outperform the Bf 109G-6.

True True...

 

It would probably result in a fighter line with the P-51 syndrome, but I dont think we have much of a choice. I will try to come up with a fiat only line later today.


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Demon93IT #16 Posted 10 January 2014 - 12:09 AM

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I'm an Italian player and i'm preparing a tech tree on my own. From I to IV is correct, from V on there are some issues

1)The MC 202 should be researched from the MC 200, planes from which it was developed, rather than the G.50.

2)The MC 205 should not be placed at tier VI. The Veltro and the 109F don't have anything in common(while it was tested a MC 202 with the DB 601E engine), it should be placed at tier VII.

3)The Re.2005 should have other Reggiane fighters below it such as the Re.2001, Re.2002 and Re.2000

4)The Orione was a small "improvement"(it was quite unsuccessful) over the Veltro so it should be a configuration of the MC 205 rather than a plane on its own

5)I've thought about the Ca.183 but at tier IX i don't know. It's predicted maximum speed was 740 km/h, pretty poor for a tier IX.

6)The Sagittario 2 is a SAI Ambrosini, manufacturer quite complex to add due to the different approach(see the S.S:4 for example).

 

View PostHeh, on 17 December 2013 - 07:17 PM, said:

No no, not the CR.42 at tier 2. That thing has a DB 601 upgrade, making it an extremely deadly biplane. Make it tier 3. Hell, maybe 4. CR.32's tier 2 material. CR.20's tier 1 material.

 

Also, get the G.91 out, it was designed after the Korean War. Replace it with the Sagittario 2.

The DB 601N was just a test(in fact i considered it as a tier premium, probably tier V due to its maximum speed)

 

Both the Sagittario 2 and the G.91 were designed after the 1953, when NATO issued the specification. Anyway the G.91 was called "Little Sabre" for a reason ;)

 

View PostHeh, on 18 December 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

 

I thought he meant the CR 42 that has the DB 601. Of course the DB 601 is in-game, that's the main engine on the Bf 109 F.


Technically it was the 109E engine(DB 601N), the F had the DB 601E which was mounted only on the MC 202 as a test

 

View PostLouisLitt, on 23 December 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

 

Thanks!

 

The only problem I see with the line I drafted is that it goes back and forth between different plane manufacturers. I think it would be best to try to have 1 line per manufacturer. The low volume of italian planes makes this difficult tough.

Well we created many planes, some are less known than others. I will attach my own so you can see you it should be like(not complete of course)

 

View PostHeh, on 23 December 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

 

Aside from the Macchis, you could add more Fiats. The Fiat G.55 was as dangerous as the Veltro and the G.56 could outperform the Bf 109G-6.


Even the G.55 outperformed the G(G-4 to be exact) and the FW190A-5 during tests. The G.56 specifications were issued by the Germans because the G.55 airframe was able to handle the DB 603 engine while the 109 wasn't.

 

View PostLouisLitt, on 23 December 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

True True...

 

It would probably result in a fighter line with the P-51 syndrome, but I dont think we have much of a choice. I will try to come up with a fiat only line later today.


Not exactly, sure the G.55 and the G.56 were similar(virtually the same airframe except some modifications) but the G.56 is way better than the G.55 which wasn't a bad plane.

 

Due to the fact that, for some weird reason, i cannot attach any file i'll just copy/paste the whole thing on another post(i need some opinions outside the little italian community back in EU)



Demon93IT #17 Posted 10 January 2014 - 12:14 AM

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      CR20      
      |      
      CR32      
    /   \    
  CR 42       Ca.165  
/   \     | \
MC 200   G.50     Re.2000 F.5
|   |     | |
MC 202(p.s.)   G.50V     Re.2001 I&II F.4
|   |     | |
MC 202(u.s.)   G.51?     Re.2001 III&IV F.6M
| /   \   | /
MC 205 G.55   G.59   Re.2005  
| |   |   |  
MC 206 G.56   G.61   Re.2006  
| \   /   |  
??   G.82     ??  
|   |     |  
??   G.91(prot.)     ??  

p.s. = prime serie(early series)

u.s. = ultime serie(late series)

 

I copy/pasted from my Excel file so that's why it looks weird. Moreover i've made also a Word file in which i wrote the modules for every plane, i've attached the file so you can check it if you wish.

Attached Files



MagusGerhardt #18 Posted 10 January 2014 - 04:01 AM

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I really like the look of this line.  +1 here out of gratitude not only for the time you put into researching this, but into maintaining and responding to the thread you have started.

 

I'm not that bothered by the use of multiple manufacturers here, though.  In fact, if the Reggia Aeronautica were included in this game I would prefer that the light fighter line include at least Fiat and Macchi designs, and here is why.

 

If included, the Italian fighter line would likely end up like the IJN line is currently.  Single line, no branch-offs, no options, tier I-X.  Now, if the line only has one manufacturer, the line is complete and requires no further work; the Italians wouldn't be revisited until entire new branches are brought in.  Now, if the single light fighter line has two or three different manufacturers included this virtually guarantees that further lines based around those manufacturers will be brought in eventually to "tidy up" the tech tree.

 

There is a method to my madness.  :izmena:

 

I'm also amused that here we have another line where I love the look of the IX, but the aesthetics of the X makes my skin crawl.


 

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Demon93IT #19 Posted 10 January 2014 - 12:53 PM

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View PostMagusGerhardt, on 10 January 2014 - 04:01 AM, said:

I really like the look of this line.  +1 here out of gratitude not only for the time you put into researching this, but into maintaining and responding to the thread you have started.

 

I'm not that bothered by the use of multiple manufacturers here, though.  In fact, if the Reggia Aeronautica were included in this game I would prefer that the light fighter line include at least Fiat and Macchi designs, and here is why.

 

If included, the Italian fighter line would likely end up like the IJN line is currently.  Single line, no branch-offs, no options, tier I-X.  Now, if the line only has one manufacturer, the line is complete and requires no further work; the Italians wouldn't be revisited until entire new branches are brought in.  Now, if the single light fighter line has two or three different manufacturers included this virtually guarantees that further lines based around those manufacturers will be brought in eventually to "tidy up" the tech tree.

 

There is a method to my madness.  :izmena:

 

I'm also amused that here we have another line where I love the look of the IX, but the aesthetics of the X makes my skin crawl.


Personally i would prefer keep the manufacturers divided for these reasons:

1)The approaches were different.

2)Every single plane is linked to the one before due to the fact that they usually shared parts. So, as a consequence, every plane requires its predecessor and, as modelling is concerned, it will be easier to model each plane due to the parts in common.

3)For every series there are at least three choices(six in case of the "serie I") so it will be quite difficult to choose which one should be implemented.

 

For the reasons listed above i think that it's better to keep them divided. I know that it's unlikely to see all of them implemented right at the start but still making two branches won't be so difficult especially because there are several parts in common between the planes from each manufacturer plus the fact that many modules are already present(especially engines and armament)

 

 

 



lovewar11 #20 Posted 11 January 2014 - 08:30 PM

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you are all forgetting one thing, world of warplanes refuses to create an Italian tree without a side plane such as heavy fighters or attack planes unless the planes were a from a renowned WW2 country such as japan




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