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TBSh 3 vs LBSh


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PanzerXO #1 Posted 05 September 2013 - 04:31 PM

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I just started playing attack aircraft (bombing with HFs sucks).  In short order I found the TBSh 3 can own on the ground; I got 15 ground kills and 3 air kills in one battle.  However, having moved up to the LBSh, I find it to be less effective.  (I have the top guns).

The 20s just don't seem to have the punch of the massed 7.62s of the TB 3.  It's taking multiple passes to do the job.  I realize the AA and GTs are tougher, but still it seems an inferior plane in the GA role.

So the question is; is it in fact inferior, or am I flying it wrong?  If the latter, what more do I need to do?

View PostRosebud, on , said:


...By flying into the middle you are boldly stating that you are a noob and haven’t learned your lesson yet.
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An_Average_Jho #2 Posted 05 September 2013 - 04:53 PM

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Airbrake + flaps + very slight inclination = destroying GTs for days.

So long as you're not thrown into Pacific, you should be able to do fine. You just have to gauge your approach correctly and you should be fine.

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pyantoryng #3 Posted 05 September 2013 - 04:56 PM

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TSh-3's 10 ShKAS mows down targets very quickly, but it can only be fired from 600m away. The LBSh with 20mm and the most damaging ammo can usually deal around 1000 to a big target if you start firing from farthest possible range (which is about 1km square) and keep firing until about the last moment before you have to pull away...and it seem to shoot air-to-air better too, as its longer range allows preemptive strikes or the ability to start counter fire right away against similarly armed crafts, or attacking fleeing crafts.

The LBSh can actually go somewhere (it goes faster and have more energy in which to escape tough terrain), carries 100kg bombs that can be used effectively in both ground and air attack until its obsolete point (I still use 100kgs n my IL-10 and they are effective), and with cannons you have more range to work with.

The real upgrade that the LBSh offers is the 100kg bombs - use them well. But it really is inferior in ground attack role from my (old) experience...it takes down soft (like AA guns) target well, but not harder targets.,,you may have to set some bombs aside to destroy HQ and not hesitate to use bombs to destroy GTs, because your guns are not powerful enough to do all the work by themselves.

Just hold out until you ascend into Ilyushin...they are just swell in this regard. But until then you'll certainly have problem with Pacific - you'll need multiple passes to sink just one warship (2k HP each)...and you can't two-bomb the HQ, either (7500HP)...and what Jho said, flaps down, 0 thrust, and let your bullets go. This technique can be used with the Ilyushins too.

WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

bearrick #4 Posted 05 September 2013 - 07:25 PM

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You go from 10 machine guns; the most powerful 7.62 in game imho with more weapon damage per shot than the American 7.62, the German 7.92, and the Japanese 7.7; more rounds per minute than any other gun in the game; to a plane that carries only two of the same guns at stock and then gets two 12.7mm and two 20mm for upgrade options.

The LBSh has always had the firepower disadvantage just because of how the gun stats work.  Add to that the overheat index and the LBSh has to get creative.  No rockets like the next tier up and the different gun dynamics mean, as Average_Jho pointed out, the air brake and flaps combo becomes more necessary for single pass destruction.

I've never liked the LBSh for those reasons.  Extra speed and mobility from the TSh-3 are nice, but they don't help in the primary role.

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209 #5 Posted 05 September 2013 - 07:42 PM

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How does the BSh1 premium stack up against  TBSh3 and the LBSh since we are discussing tiers 3 and 4.

An_Average_Jho #6 Posted 05 September 2013 - 08:08 PM

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View Post209, on 05 September 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

How does the BSh1 premium stack up against  TBSh3 and the LBSh since we are discussing tiers 3 and 4.

It packs 8 50Kg bombs. That's all it's got going for it. Firepower is pretty bad for going against GTs, it's even pretty bad compared to a fighter of the same tier.

At tier 3 and tier 4, you're guaranteed 8 GTs with your bombs. Against tier 5, it's pretty hard to do well. The BSh-1 does get pretty maneuverable without its bombs, matching some heavy fighters in turns, but that's pretty useless against fighters.

Everything tastes better if it tries to eat you before you eat it

I named my airplane Iosef because it kept on Stalin

 

"Quod natura non dat, Salmantica non præstat"


PanzerXO #7 Posted 06 September 2013 - 01:07 AM

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Thanks for the responses!

Ironically, I have a hit ratio of 50 on the TBSh, and 59 on the LBSh, so it's probably not an aim thing.  Guess I just need to start shooting earlier.  I had been saving the bombs for the HQ and defensive purposes; guess I need to break em out for the ground targets.

Am I reading correctly that the next plane up the line is enjoyable?

View PostRosebud, on , said:


...By flying into the middle you are boldly stating that you are a noob and haven’t learned your lesson yet.
ROSEBUD

pyantoryng #8 Posted 06 September 2013 - 07:42 AM

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View PostPanzerXO, on 06 September 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:


Am I reading correctly that the next plane up the line is enjoyable?

The first IL-2, while possessing no tail gun, has more than enough firepower to mow down GT after GT only by guns, possess both rockets and bombs (meaning: you can save all bombs for defense while your powerful guns and rockets do all the ground pounding), and they buffed its HP from 500 to 625. It only get better from this point on...

WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

PanzerXO #9 Posted 08 September 2013 - 01:29 AM

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Here's something I don't get: why does the IL-2 using the Tier V gun (the same gun as the LBSh) have a MUCH easier time shooting down the targets on Pacific?

... oh, yeah...  balance.

View PostRosebud, on , said:


...By flying into the middle you are boldly stating that you are a noob and haven’t learned your lesson yet.
ROSEBUD

pyantoryng #10 Posted 08 September 2013 - 08:32 AM

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View PostPanzerXO, on 08 September 2013 - 01:29 AM, said:

Here's something I don't get: why does the IL-2 using the Tier V gun (the same gun as the LBSh) have a MUCH easier time shooting down the targets on Pacific?

... oh, yeah...  balance.

Keep in mind that the IL-2 has a pair of ShKAS that hits after 600m range is reached...while the LBSh only has that pair of cannons...

That pair of ShKAS hits for a fair bit, even if there is only two of them.

WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

JDMFreakz #11 Posted 08 September 2013 - 12:34 PM

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how about IL-2 with dual 37mm?

if only TSh-3 and LBSh.. i'd choose TSh-3 for its shotgun and lower tier..

 


bearrick #12 Posted 08 September 2013 - 02:07 PM

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View PostPanzerXO, on 06 September 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:

Ironically, I have a hit ratio of 50 on the TBSh, and 59 on the LBSh, so it's probably not an aim thing. Guess I just need to start shooting earlier. I had been saving the bombs for the HQ and defensive purposes; guess I need to break em out for the ground targets.

With the TSh, you can actually wait longer to start shooting. The hit rate isn't just you. Wing mounted guns have a slightly larger spread range than nose mounted guns because of the current inaccuracy system that's affecting all planes. The TSh-3 has 5 guns on each wing that spread out beyond where the LBSh mounts its guns (both proportionally and physically).
This creates the shot effect shown here:

TSh-3 machine guns: Attached File   shot_365.jpg   91K
LBSh stock machine guns: Attached File   shot_367.jpg   68.52K (same as upgraded TSh-3 guns)
LBSh 20mm cannons: Attached File   shot_366.jpg   75.71K

At the max distance, the TSh-3 guns have a much larger spread than even the LBSh 20mm which have a greater distance and a slightly larger spread rate than the individual guns on the TSh.  The only advantage the TSh-3 guns get to compensate for this is that they are lobbing 1800 rpm each.  That's 300 rounds per second.  But at max range, unless you're aiming from a 20 degree or steeper dive, close to 20% of your bullets will simply spread around the target (unless it's got a huge hitbox, such as boats and HQs).  So even though it has a max range of about 2000ft, if you wait to about 17~1800, more bullets hit right away and you still deal roughly the same amount of damage in the same amount of time.

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EspressoForHammy #13 Posted 08 September 2013 - 02:33 PM

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View Post209, on 05 September 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

How does the BSh1 premium stack up against  TBSh3 and the LBSh since we are discussing tiers 3 and 4.

I have the Ace medal in the Bsh-1.  :sceptic:  I also mow down at least 1-2 aircraft per game when I have dropped all my bombs. The plane is just freaking LOADS better than the tier 4 regular. I rearely even strafe GTs once the bombs are gone, unless the rest of the enemy is far away. Instead, I concentrate on making head-on passes, or leading enemy fighters into ambushes. With a 100% base skill crew and some amount of player skill, a head-on pass will take out a tier 4 fighter with complete certainty, and reduce a tier 5 fighter to a smoking barely flyable wreck. Sometimes I save 2-3 bombs for self-defense when a plane gets on my tail. NEVER EVER try to out-turn anyone. That simply provides them more surface area to shoot at, and makes you slower and easier to hit. Instead, use rudder to jerk the plane back and forth, making them miss most of their shots, and lead them toward a friendly plane. Friendlies WILL attack them, because they are flying slow and straight, trying to hit YOU.  :izmena:

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bearrick #14 Posted 08 September 2013 - 04:00 PM

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View Post209, on 05 September 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

How does the BSh1 premium stack up against  TBSh3 and the LBSh since we are discussing tiers 3 and 4.

Better than the LBSh.
8x bombs is far better than 4x bombs.  Size is irrelevant for the tier matchups they both go into, so it doesn't matter that the 4 carried by the LBSh can be twice the size.
The only real difference is the LBSh gets cannons and has more hit points.

Compared to the TSh-3, it's apples and oranges.
4x guns and 8x bombs
or
10x guns and 4x bombs
Do you want to shoot buildings more or drop more bombs on them?
The BSh-1 is faster and has some extra hit points, but in my experience it appears to take damage faster through different durability characteristics putting them at close to the same value.
But since the BSh-1 is part of a preorder package, try it out now and if you like it you'll need to pay real money to keep it immediately after the 26th.

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209 #15 Posted 08 September 2013 - 04:08 PM

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Thank You gentlemen for the informative opinions, much appreciated. 209




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