Jump to content


japan planes, my opinion


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
41 replies to this topic

rocketbrainsurgeon #21 Posted 28 August 2013 - 06:14 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 5 battles
  • 433
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012
Last post and then I'm done with this, because you're offering nothing but nonsense.

I do trust others regarding the back-end calculations.  All I care about is how much HP the enemy plane loses, and it doesn't lose HP fast or as often enough as with other nations.  

Every in-game rating and metric points to the JP line as being low damage.  You can't just put a formula out there and say "omg it's super complex but I won't explain".  Don't bother explaining it, because the end result of in-game damage is low.

0 out of 24 people voted the JP line as best.

0 players in the top 50 on the server play the JP line as the majority of their games.  11/50 played JP planes 10% or more of the time; only one had over 20% of their games in JP planes.  So when you say the aces have it figured out, you're right: they've figured out they suck and don't play them.

rocketbrainsurgeon #22 Posted 28 August 2013 - 06:35 PM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 5 battles
  • 433
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012
meh

Edited by rocketbrainsurgeon, 28 August 2013 - 06:52 PM.


Heh #23 Posted 28 August 2013 - 07:01 PM

    Sky Whale Historian

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 0 battles
  • 11,960
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View Postrocketbrainsurgeon, on 28 August 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

Guys, I don't have some weird vendetta against JP planes.  I'm trying to point out the deficiencies before release so they can be fixed.
Here's how different weapons of the same caliber can have different damage: I don't have any JP planes since the wipe to look at the ammo, but you'd see the same trends: the JP planes deal less damage per shot (alpha) than other nations.
Go look at the fully upgraded ratings for each plane here.  JP planes consistently have the lowest or among the lowest firepower ratings in tier.  They have the lowest or are among the lowest for theoretical DPS.
The cannons overheat quicker than other nations too.  There is literally no metric on which to say that the JP planes out-gun their counterparts.  Don't give me anecdotal evidence, because the only anecdotal evidence I see of their prowess is how few of them there are in game, and how you guys defending them don't even choose to fly them.

I have those calculations based on what the DPS numbers said since I couldn't get my hands on every single plane to calculate the power of every single shell type:

http://forum.worldof...nly-a-dps-stat/

Yes, this doesn't calculate armor, damage dropoff or anything, but it actually shows a slight edge with the Japanese planes in damage per hit, especially with the J7Ws which, like I said, hit extremely hard.
Heh - aeromarine biologist

View Posthahiha, on , said:


OMG Heh you have had so many posts O_O

JDMFreakz #24 Posted 14 September 2013 - 10:26 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 106 battles
  • 1,654
  • Member since:
    10-20-2012
sure type 99-2 hits the hardest for 20mm guns (per hit, not per second)

but its shotgun like psychic killed its damage.. before 0.5.1, it can blew P40 in 2 seconds..

 


HouseFoxx #25 Posted 15 September 2013 - 10:50 PM

    Senior Airman

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 0 battles
  • 13
  • Member since:
    05-02-2013
Why aren't you guys solely playing JP's line just to recreate Sky Crawlers: Innocent Aces?
That seems like a noble enough reason to play them for me...
Oh wait...  thats right, because anybody not in a JP can very easily become "The Teacher"...

Carl_the_Cuttlefish #26 Posted 17 September 2013 - 05:13 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 12 battles
  • 1,416
  • Member since:
    11-06-2012
You have to be a good pilot to play the jap planes well. They are the least friendly to noobs and require the greatest amount of combat manuevers to stay alive and do some damage. They are fun and effective but with little breathing room. They are the T49's and 59 16's of airplanes.

"It's about to get real inky in here!!!"

- Carl the Cuttlefish, the artist formerly known as S01836775, now in an all new user friendly format.

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm whining in my posts 

And why do we balance???


lostwingman #27 Posted 17 September 2013 - 08:05 PM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Alpha tester
  • 15 battles
  • 701
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View PostS01836775, on 17 September 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

You have to be a good pilot to play the jap planes well. They are the least friendly to noobs and require the greatest amount of combat manuevers to stay alive and do some damage. They are fun and effective but with little breathing room. They are the T49's and 59 16's of airplanes.
Yes and no.
They are best at the kind of battles newbs will crutch into, turn fighting, but currently turn fighting is very weak so they consistently fail.

Ground Attack, the new Arty




Aes_Sidhe #28 Posted 24 September 2013 - 05:09 AM

    Master Sergeant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 0 battles
  • 95
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012
Well I'm Not best pilot... Playing too reckless at least now hoarding tokens and Such... But Japanese Plains are Specific... Only bad apple so far for me is A6M1....  right before i post i just Tried new Tactics on A6M5... i go in to middle of map 1700-1800 as Soon As I seen heavy with carrier Fighters of Front of me like 2300 meters I pull to side of map... With greater Camo nobody from middle of the map was following me and I engaged in  Circle fight mostly Lower tier Planes on the side... I Score 4 kills in including cowardly Me-109E Who Rammed me...
I Think every plane have strong and week side.. and sometimes playing planes very similar in Style You discover that even on paper some planes looks same in your Hand you will favor some more some less...
I will Play A6M5 before LaGG3 all the way... and have so far better experience with A6M5 than with Yak-1.... and I favor P-40 or Me-109E style that other Planes...
Sometimes is just luck or no luck (you will be Shredded by HF with You miss somehow on map in first fly by....) or you will score 4 kills...

BuckRodgers #29 Posted 26 September 2013 - 12:52 AM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 3 battles
  • 122
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012
Yeah, first fighter in the Japanese line that I don't like is the A7M and that may be like Lostwingman said because of both better BnZ planes and Pilots at the higher ranks.

The Japanese require knowing how to defend very well to keep them from falling to pieces, and they lose out to good BnZ pilots but their ability to turn fight makes them great for stomping folks that don't understand energy.

antikoala #30 Posted 27 September 2013 - 10:35 PM

    Master Sergeant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 0 battles
  • 49
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012
starting from tier 3-4 they are a bit hard to play if in emmemy team you have any player on american/german plane  who has a little knolege how to  BnZ.
sorry for my English :)

losttwo #31 Posted 27 September 2013 - 10:49 PM

    which way do we go?

  • Community Ace
  • 4482 battles
  • 13,776
  • [S-S-G] S-S-G
  • Member since:
    05-15-2012
In the beginning I disliked them also, but having changed my tactics with them... WOW what a difference. They should be used like NINJA's of the sky. Fly like a Ninja do not rush into battle find away around everyone dive in for a kill slip away from battle area. Dive back into battle and slip out....kill stealing little creatures these are...them Jap planes....can not trust a Jap plane. Like a vulture they finish off the lame and wounded with no mercy.

pyantoryng #32 Posted 28 September 2013 - 06:05 AM

    Colonel

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 2060 battles
  • 8,387
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012
The A7M now actually do something ! :great:

...though it cannot go beyond 1.5km above sea level...

WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

StoptheViolins #33 Posted 30 September 2013 - 01:34 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 2179 battles
  • 1,234
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012
My best success with the A6M1 has been to take the enemy to the canyons where you can turn and the enemy has to do e bleeding activities like climb, high-hat, and generally fly slower.  Mix that with staying back and letting the enemy get target focused with the other fodder on your team and then swooping in for some fun.   However, be mindful of the other red arrows as they may realize what an easy kill you are and take the 2-3 seconds needed to chew you up.

Xarlanna15 #34 Posted 14 October 2013 - 01:08 AM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Alpha tester
  • 0 battles
  • 131
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012
My expirement with the Japanese line has taken me to Tier 8.  What I have found is to a tier, this line must be flown as a slash and dash attacker.  Best to lie in wait on the outside and get the damaged kills when they try and make a break for it.  Paper thin armor, poor ceiling, and underpowered across the board.  They were almost acceptable until the last patch, but the addition of the British line has made this line not enjoyable to fly at any tier I have tried.  If the Japanese line is to survive, it needs a major tweek and I have no clue where to start.
  While the Japanese may have stopped progressing in real life, the aircraft line in WoWp just makes that point all the more clear.  By flying the line as a slash and dash, you anger your teammates by allegedly "stealing" their kills.  Due to the Japanese limitations, this has to be a way of engaging the enemy with these aircraft.
  Some of the guns and cannons are nice, but with the paper thin armor and low ceiling, you are a sitting duck for a wingman or another opposing flight member.
  I really had hoped to find a line of aircraft that was enjoyable to play, switching from German Heavies and Russian GAs to try the Japanese line.  What I found is an aircraft that has potential, but is severely limited by the designs of the line.  Unfortunately, the only hope for this line may be a tweek that will come too late with the release scheduled in a few weeks.  I now understand why there are so few Japanese aircraft in battles.

_Down_Range #35 Posted 27 October 2013 - 02:36 AM

    Master Sergeant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 721 battles
  • 95
  • Member since:
    03-19-2012
Battles played - 50+Plane balance - The newest releases have made this a better plane.  However, it does not stack up well against other tier 7 and higher A/C because it does not do well at high altitude where the higher tier A/C operateHistorical accuracy - While this was mostly a test A/C it seems to me the Japs would have designed a new fighter to work at the higher altitudes to get to the B-29s. So because the A/C tops out below 5000 feet I would say there is a historic inaccuracyPower curve - There is not much of a change as the A/C is upgradedAdjustment recommendations - The operational ceiling needs to be increased to at least 7K feet based on my comments aboveAdditional notes - Maybe the MK9E engine or similar can be the Supercharged Ha-43 Engine so this would give it better higher Altitude performance.
The Japanese had failed to progress their aircraft much like the Germans did... keeping the same idealogy behind what they considered an advancement ( they keep poor armor, no self-sealing fuel tanks, low alititude performance, high manueveability) until it was too late. You are making judgements on planes SO FAR in the Japanese line... if you research other aircraft that will make it into the Japanese line (ie. the Ki-100 for example) they (japanese govt) decided to make higher performing planes, only a few which saw combat before the end of the war. For information purpose, the Ki-100 had a version that was designed to engage the B-29 and the J2M4 was also a high altitude interceptor. I am sure the Devs will add this aircraft to the lineup amoung others ( there is still  more Japanese jets that has not appeared yet-- the Japanese version of the ME-262, the J8N-1 Kikka, J1N1 Gekko, Ki-201 for example) and the Japanese line will be more playable at mid-level to higher tiers and at higher altitudes. WoWP is just getting started and the current plane lineups for all current countries is just the start... many more are coming. Personally I think its exciting getting in on the ground level of a game like this and seeing all the aircraft additions.Other exciting Japanese aircraft to look for:Ki-43,Ki-61,Ki-84,Ki-100,J8N-1 Kikka.....and there is their heavy fighters( Ki-93,Ki-96, Kogiken Plan 1 Type A) along with a couple of GA aircraft (Ki-98 & Ki-102) line too so keep an eye out and look up some of these planes. But I do agree that the A7M3 with the Ha-43 supercharged engine should be brought aboard.
________________________________________
Mitsubishi-Payen PA.400
J1N1 Gekko
Kayaba Katsuodori
Ki-94-I
Ki-94-II
Ki-88
Ki-98 (Ground Attack)
Ki-102 (Ground Attack)
Ki-46-IIIB (Ground Attack)
Ki-46-III Kai (Heavy Fighter)
Ki-73 (Heavy Fighter)
Ki-64 (Heavy Fighter)
Ki-93 (Heavy Fighter)
Ki-96 (Heavy Fighter)
Kogiken Plan I Type A (Heavy Fighter)
Kogiken Plan I Type B1 (Heavy Fighter)
Ki-102 (Heavy Fighter)
Ki-108 (Heavy Fighter)
Ki-88
R2Y Keiun
Ki-61-I
Ki-61-II ( high altitude fighter )
Ki-84-IC (high altitude fighter)  <----- if WoWP does this one right it'll be the one to really look for in a fighter that stands up to advanced allied aircraft.
Ki-87-I (high altitude fighter)
Ki-87-II (high altitude fighter)
J2M4 Model 32 Raiden (high altitude fighter)
J2M4 Model 33 Raiden (high altitude fighter)
J2M4 Model 34 Raiden (high altitude fighter)
Ki-100-I
Ki-100-II (high altitude fighter)
N1K1, 2, 3, 4, 5 -J
J3K1 Type 17 (Interceptor)
J6K1 (Interceptor)
Ki-201 (Jet)
J8N-1 Kikka (Jet)
Kayaba Katsuodori (Jet)
Ki-162 (Jet)
_____________________________________________________
There are more than this but I think it should keep you busy and spirits up about the Japanese Line  :trollface:

pyantoryng #36 Posted 28 October 2013 - 02:43 PM

    Colonel

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 2060 battles
  • 8,387
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012
The [current] Shinden uses the MK9D (Ha-43) engine as its stock engine...

...yet it is confined to below 2km...

WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

Vendetta_42 #37 Posted 20 December 2013 - 11:25 PM

    Airman Basic

  • Member
  • 21 battles
  • 2
  • Member since:
    07-06-2012

Here is a good advice for people that don't do well in Zeros.

Try using joystick instead of mouse and keyboard while playing Zeros.

You will hit less but you will also stay alive much longer twisting and turning like crazy.

You will help your team win because enemy will be busy chasing you by whole packs,

getting pissed off that they can not get you.

Stay low to the ground after initial dive, make them lose energy and crash as they trying to stay on your tail.

Have your team's B&Z fighters dive on your pursuers.

Don't research past tier 5 Zero. Although Tier 6 has very good firepower it's engine just isn't competitive

with British, American and German planes. You will rarely get to the fight that is often high and you will be constantly dived on.

(I play my dad's Tier 6 Zero fully upgraded. I own Tier 4 and 5, Tier 4 being better IMHO)

 



Pogo68 #38 Posted 21 December 2013 - 05:12 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 1649 battles
  • 1,377
  • [-BFS-] -BFS-
  • Member since:
    11-06-2012

Don't keep turning in the same direction.

I mean if you have someone on your tail and you turn to get onto his tail, if you can't get to your guns on him in a full turn and a half, change your turn, go out of plane.

Remember, you have 90 seconds before his friends show up to kill you.


DICTA BOELCKE for WoWP
    1. Try to secure the upper hand before attacking.
    2. Always continue with an attack you have begun
    3. Open fire only at close range, and then only when the opponent is squarely in your sights
    4. You should always try to keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses
    5. In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind
    6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try run away from his attack, but fly to meet it
    7. When over the enemy's lines, always remember your own line of retreat
    8. It is better to attack in groups of four or six. Avoid two aircraft attacking the same opponent

JDMFreakz #39 Posted 22 December 2013 - 12:46 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 106 battles
  • 1,654
  • Member since:
    10-20-2012

View PostPogo68, on 21 December 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

Don't keep turning in the same direction.

I mean if you have someone on your tail and you turn to get onto his tail, if you can't get to your guns on him in a full turn and a half, change your turn, go out of plane.

Remember, you have 90 seconds before his friends show up to kill you.

 

nah.. turn in one direction, Reisens cant roll fast..

 

except the A7M and J7W series, they have a better roll rate


 


pyantoryng #40 Posted 22 December 2013 - 08:05 PM

    Colonel

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 2060 battles
  • 8,387
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View PostJDMFreakz, on 22 December 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

 

nah.. turn in one direction, Reisens cant roll fast..

 

except the A7M and J7W series, they have a better roll rate

 

They fare no better to me...although it seems to be so, because Zero's rolls are pretty bad.



WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users