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Get rid of the prototypes and jets.


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CrashTailspin #21 Posted 22 August 2013 - 07:51 PM

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It has been stated multiple times (before the World of Warplanes Portal received a big, yet slightly confusing, overhaul) that the timeline for World of Warplanes would be inter-war (1930s-ish) to Korean War.  As such, the introduction of early jets (F-86 Sabre, F7U Cutlass, La-15, etc.) was inevitable.  I do understand your frustration with seeing what has been called "Napkin-waffe" aircraft such as the 109TL, 262 HG III, and the various P-series of Messerschmitt aircraft.  These aircraft were either blueprint-only or simple prototype aircraft.
  
However, there's quite a few very REAL aircraft already in-game, especially with the introduction of the Yak series of aircraft.  Every aircraft on the American, German, Russian, and Japanese tech branches from Tier 1 to AT LEAST5(and with the exception of Japan, to Tier 6 or 7) were all mass produced.  Also, the Allied countries saw production of aircraft above Tier 7 (look at the FJ-1, F-86, F7U, La-9, and La-15).  That's quite a lot of REAL aircraft.
  
Now look at the Axis powers.  The German's end-game aircraft was the Me.262 / Do.335 / Fw.190-D series.  And they were produced in such limited numbers that they didn't pose a serious threat to the Allied aerial campaign.  However, looking at the comparable aircraft in other tiers, Wargaming had to dig into the aforementioned "Napkin-Waffe" to find experimental projects that would have potentially had similar characteristics to Allied aircraft to fill the tiers.  That's where the more bizarre aircraft come in.  If you wanted a lop-sided game where players only flew Allied aircraft in the upper tiers, then sure, remove the Napkinwaffe aircraft.  However, that kind of negates WG's whole concept of Tier 1-10.
  
So let's look at World of Tanks.  How many of the designs there were only in blueprint or experimental form?  LOTS.  German artillery above Tier 5, American TDs above about Tier 7, the Object-series of Russian vehicles,....the list goes on.  Should they be removed, simply for the sake of realism?  IMO, No.  They add variety.  They give the player choices to suit each individual's playstyle.  And they keep people coming back for more.
  
This concept will transfer to WoWP.  New, very real aircraft will come.  Along with some X-planes.  Enough for every player to find their niche and have fun.
  
EDIT:  For a more in-depth look at what the Luftwaffe had up their sleeve, go check out this book:  Luftwaffe Secret Projects.  It's got quite a few of the high-tier German aircraft in it.

Edited by CrashTailspin, 22 August 2013 - 08:01 PM.

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FreeFOXMIKE #22 Posted 22 August 2013 - 08:12 PM

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FreeFOXMIKE #23 Posted 22 August 2013 - 08:14 PM

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LightningStriker911 #24 Posted 22 August 2013 - 08:37 PM

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View PostTheGhostCat, on 22 August 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

Really guy? I'm the troll?



I love this forum - you just just go after anyone whose not drooling blindly over every WG does.

This this 'community'.

Jets are simply a bad idea.

Jets is not a bad idea.. Sabre and the rest of the jets are here because they were used in Korean War. Well, some of them were prototypes.

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NathanFlightLeader #25 Posted 22 August 2013 - 09:18 PM

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I personally like all the prototypes in WoT and WoWP because other games don't have them and so its the only chance you really get to play them. I do find it a little bit annoying when the keep adding hundreds of tanks that I've never seen before but I get used to them!! Its a great part of this game and getting rid of them would severely mess up tech trees like France where half the tanks weren't built because of historical events such as Germany steamrolling France in 1940!
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NathanFlightLeader #26 Posted 22 August 2013 - 09:23 PM

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View Postrwspears, on 22 August 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

Personally I hope the game evolves into the Vietnam and Desert Shield/Storm eras. F22 here I come. would prolly cost 500Mil or 1.2 Billion Credits but hey they were expensive. However if they did keep adding more jets then the maps need to quadruple in size for sure.
Why? You do realise that most aerial combat today is this; One jet sees another and begins following him. He locks his missile on. Fires. The other guy deploys flares. Missile misses. They both go home!
Did you know that the last time two planes ever dogfighted (As in chasing each other shooting machine guns) was in the Korean War where the timeline for WoWP ends. I don't think there has ever been a machine gun vs machine gun aerial engagement since then because it is just easier to lock on the missile and then forget about it. And it presents the same problems as adding modern tanks in WoT. You have to take in the depleted uranium armor, the massive range on all the guns etc. and it would not only make the game more confusing but probably give the developers balancing everything for the game a nervous breakdown!

Edited by NathanFlightLeader, 22 August 2013 - 09:23 PM.

"It is generally inadvisable to eject directly over the area you just bombed."
"The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire."
The three most common expressions (or famous last words) in aviation are: "Why is it doing that?", "Where are we?" And "Oh S...!"
"Airspeed, altitude and brains. Two are always needed to successfully complete the flight."
Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous.

LightningStriker911 #27 Posted 22 August 2013 - 09:35 PM

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View PostNathanFlightLeader, on 22 August 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

I personally like all the prototypes in WoT and WoWP because other games don't have them and so its the only chance you really get to play them. I do find it a little bit annoying when the keep adding hundreds of tanks that I've never seen before but I get used to them!! Its a great part of this game and getting rid of them would severely mess up tech trees like France where half the tanks weren't built because of historical events such as Germany steamrolling France in 1940!

Sometimes, they'll add in a prototype and separate them in 2 different vehicles. For example, T28 and T95..

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Heh #28 Posted 22 August 2013 - 10:07 PM

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View PostNathanFlightLeader, on 22 August 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

Why? You do realise that most aerial combat today is this; One jet sees another and begins following him. He locks his missile on. Fires. The other guy deploys flares. Missile misses. They both go home!
Did you know that the last time two planes ever dogfighted (As in chasing each other shooting machine guns) was in the Korean War where the timeline for WoWP ends. I don't think there has ever been a machine gun vs machine gun aerial engagement since then because it is just easier to lock on the missile and then forget about it. And it presents the same problems as adding modern tanks in WoT. You have to take in the depleted uranium armor, the massive range on all the guns etc. and it would not only make the game more confusing but probably give the developers balancing everything for the game a nervous breakdown!

There are still jet to jet dogfights today actually. Guns can hit maneuvering targets quite nicely since you'll run out of missiles anyway.

However, modern combat doesn't really require as much skill.
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OMG Heh you have had so many posts O_O

LightningStriker911 #29 Posted 23 August 2013 - 02:42 AM

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View PostHeh, on 22 August 2013 - 10:07 PM, said:

There are still jet to jet dogfights today actually. Guns can hit maneuvering targets quite nicely since you'll run out of missiles anyway.

However, modern combat doesn't really require as much skill.

As technology advances, we probably don't need a pilots license since the aircraft is going to do the job for you...

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F50ACE #30 Posted 23 August 2013 - 02:44 AM

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View PostLightningStriker911, on 23 August 2013 - 02:42 AM, said:

As technology advances, we probably don't need a pilots license since the aircraft is going to do the job for you...
But then you lose the fun in flying the plane.....

LightningStriker911 #31 Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:27 AM

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View PostCaptain_F22ACE, on 23 August 2013 - 02:44 AM, said:

But then you lose the fun in flying the plane.....

Exactly..

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DBlitz_Ace99 #32 Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:37 AM

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View PostHeh, on 22 August 2013 - 07:18 PM, said:

Oh yes, jets totally weren't part of WWII. Just look at the famous Me 262, Meteor, Vampire, P-80 and FJ-1 propeller planes.

I see what you did there :D
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Traurig_Yoda #33 Posted 23 August 2013 - 05:58 PM

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I think it's fine some don't like jets, they definitely shouldn't bother with them if that's how they feel.  :hiding:

allen0206 #34 Posted 23 August 2013 - 07:05 PM

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My problem with the tiers is to many of the same plane. How  many ME 109's, BF 110's and P-51's  do you need.  There are so many good American planes they left out they did not need to put in prototypes.  And they did not even get some pf the historical planes in there.  No F-80/P-80 which should replace the flying pancake, no P-38 or P-47 and dont get me started on adding a whole new Russian tier and you still don't have any Brits.  It is a sin against all things with wings to not have a Spitfire, Hurricane or Mosquito.

DrSinister #35 Posted 23 August 2013 - 07:15 PM

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View Postallen0206, on 23 August 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

My problem with the tiers is to many of the same plane. How  many ME 109's, BF 110's and P-51's  do you need.  There are so many good American planes they left out they did not need to put in prototypes.  And they did not even get some pf the historical planes in there.  No F-80/P-80 which should replace the flying pancake, no P-38 or P-47 and dont get me started on adding a whole new Russian tier and you still don't have any Brits.  It is a sin against all things with wings to not have a Spitfire, Hurricane or Mosquito.

British is coming, they have stated that already, even Tzar_Ivan's Live Stream yesterday or was it Tues, stated they are coming very soon.

Also the way WG does the nation trees is they group them up via manufactures.  Also if you have read the FAQ on the portal page, eventually WG plans to have 150 planes per nation.  On a marketing standpoint they are not just going to slap that many planes on release.  Look at WoT, when it 1st came out all it had was USSR, Germany and USA, which early Beta that was all we had too and I can understand them only using those 3 nations because that is what they started with in WoT.

Now on the P-38 Lightning, I think that the reason its not in game yet is because Lockheed still has a licencing fee for that plane and WG probably won't put that in until this goes live and starts generating income.  Or its just that the US line does not have Heavy Fighters yet which is the line that P-38  would be in.

boxtosser #36 Posted 24 August 2013 - 05:23 PM

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View Postmeth0d68, on 22 August 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

It's "World of Warplanes" not "World of WW2 Planes"

How many best selling Korean war games/movies/novels/etc out there are there?

Now compare to same question regarding WWII.

Dunno why all the neg rep for the OP.  If you want to play sci fi or fantasy crap there are games for that.


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boxtosser #37 Posted 24 August 2013 - 05:27 PM

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View PostCrashTailspin, on 22 August 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

It has been stated multiple times (before the World of Warplanes Portal received a big, yet slightly confusing, overhaul) that the timeline for World of Warplanes would be inter-war (1930s-ish) to Korean War.  As such, the introduction of early jets (F-86 Sabre, F7U Cutlass, La-15, etc.) was inevitable.  I do understand your frustration with seeing what has been called "Napkin-waffe" aircraft such as the 109TL, 262 HG III, and the various P-series of Messerschmitt aircraft.  These aircraft were either blueprint-only or simple prototype aircraft.
  
However, there's quite a few very REAL aircraft already in-game, especially with the introduction of the Yak series of aircraft.  Every aircraft on the American, German, Russian, and Japanese tech branches from Tier 1 to AT LEAST5(and with the exception of Japan, to Tier 6 or 7) were all mass produced.  Also, the Allied countries saw production of aircraft above Tier 7 (look at the FJ-1, F-86, F7U, La-9, and La-15).  That's quite a lot of REAL aircraft.
  
Now look at the Axis powers.  The German's end-game aircraft was the Me.262 / Do.335 / Fw.190-D series.  And they were produced in such limited numbers that they didn't pose a serious threat to the Allied aerial campaign.  However, looking at the comparable aircraft in other tiers, Wargaming had to dig into the aforementioned "Napkin-Waffe" to find experimental projects that would have potentially had similar characteristics to Allied aircraft to fill the tiers.  That's where the more bizarre aircraft come in.  If you wanted a lop-sided game where players only flew Allied aircraft in the upper tiers, then sure, remove the Napkinwaffe aircraft.  However, that kind of negates WG's whole concept of Tier 1-10.
  
So let's look at World of Tanks.  How many of the designs there were only in blueprint or experimental form?  LOTS.  German artillery above Tier 5, American TDs above about Tier 7, the Object-series of Russian vehicles,....the list goes on.  Should they be removed, simply for the sake of realism?  IMO, No.  They add variety.  They give the player choices to suit each individual's playstyle.  And they keep people coming back for more.
  
This concept will transfer to WoWP.  New, very real aircraft will come.  Along with some X-planes.  Enough for every player to find their niche and have fun.
  
EDIT:  For a more in-depth look at what the Luftwaffe had up their sleeve, go check out this book:  Luftwaffe Secret Projects.  It's got quite a few of the high-tier German aircraft in it.

the problem I have with WOWP is the prototypes, failed white elephants, and napkin-tanks often outperform or are arbitrarily higher ranked than the famous iconic vehicles.

The Tiger P was a failed competitor to Tiger H yet is widely considered far better.  The VK 4502P was a design that LOST to what became the Henschel Tiger II, so why is it a higher tier (better) tank in game?  Etc.


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Bogie_with_Stu #38 Posted 24 August 2013 - 05:38 PM

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View Postboxtosser, on 24 August 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

How many best selling Korean war games/movies/novels/etc out there are there?
Now compare to same question regarding WWII.
Dunno why all the neg rep for the OP.  If you want to play sci fi or fantasy crap there are games for that.
..and your point is?
Blue-print planes are hardly "sci-fi or fantasy crap".
More planes are being added and will continue to be added over the life of the game.
From day one WG stated the specific "era" of planes that would be covered...no surprise there, yet the OP seems surprised.
Those concept planes and jets have been here since day one...now he complains?
This is an ARCADE game. I get it that the history fanboys dont like some of the "non-historical" content, but complaining about it is silly when the devs were up front from day one about their plans.
There are oodles of flight sims out there that cater to the purist. This isnt one of them, and was not designed to be.
Neg rep is to be used when you feel the poster is being less than genuine, complaining unnecessarily, not making sense, or being hostile among other reasons...I dont see a problem with neg rep for the OP here. If you come into a forum where a majority of folks embrace the game and it's content...and start bashing it...you are gonna get neg rep.

Xan_Krieger #39 Posted 24 August 2013 - 05:41 PM

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View Postboxtosser, on 24 August 2013 - 05:27 PM, said:

the problem I have with WOWP is the prototypes, failed white elephants, and napkin-tanks often outperform or are arbitrarily higher ranked than the famous iconic vehicles.

The Tiger P was a failed competitor to Tiger H yet is widely considered far better.  The VK 4502P was a design that LOST to what became the Henschel Tiger II, so why is it a higher tier (better) tank in game?  Etc.
The reason some of those prototypes failed is because they demanded too much in the way of resources (porshe vehicles had high copper requirements) that the germans didn't have.  They didn't fail in terms of how they'd do in combat, they failed because it wasn't feasible to make them given economic embargoes, 24/7 bombing raids, and fighting on all fronts.
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pappabear #40 Posted 24 August 2013 - 05:43 PM

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View PostTheGhostCat, on 22 August 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

Really guy? I'm the troll?



I love this forum - you just just go after anyone whose not drooling blindly over every WG does.

This this 'community'.

Jets are simply a bad idea.

Ghost you stated you don't like jets, that's fine. Your opinion is they shouldn't be in game. No problem that's your Opinion. But you seem to have a problem with the fact some of the community doesn't agree with you.

I hate to be the one to break the news to you, but every poster on here has had a post where other players didn't agree with them. If a player doesn't agree with you they have as much right as you do to state there opinion.




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