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Addition to victory marks system


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bearrick #1 Posted 07 August 2013 - 04:27 AM

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This is a two part suggestion.

First, add new marker trackings.  Have trackings for things already being recorded, such as kill assists, battle victories, total damage to target types, maybe even kill methods such as gun/rocket/bomb.

Second, add a setting in the exterior tab that swaps which two records gets displayed on a plane.  This way, fighters who only pursue other planes can display their prowess at killing players in both visual representations instead of just one.  

This would give an easily managed way to expand player customization that rewards an individual's play style instead of broadly rewarding only two actions.

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dwbowle #2 Posted 07 August 2013 - 04:34 AM

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I think another thing to add is damage to each individual plane that one damaged on the finishing screen. When I know that I assisted on three planes, I would like to see that specific information on the victory/defeat screen.

+1 OP

TheGreenTank #3 Posted 07 August 2013 - 07:03 AM

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I don't like this idea.

It's already been suggest & submitted to the developing staff to add "kill assists" into the point system behind the kill marks on our planes.

I don't see any reason for using a similar system for the number of battle victories. Is there any historical record of combat planes bearing markers for each victorious battle they participated in (even if their share of the battle was flying patrol for 4 hours & not encountering a single enemy)?

Same issue with total damage to target types. A kill is a kill...your "achievements" statistics are plenty to receive recognition for the amount of total damage you've done (as well as the hefty bonuses to experience & credits per battle).

Same issue again, I think, for marks depending on kill methods. I know there are historical examples of marks for different types of air/ground targets killed, but not based upon the weaponry actually used.

I'd prefer to just keep it simple and easy to figure out. Easy & fun is the name of the game (but leaving plenty of room to try-hard ;P)

That's all just my 2 cents though!

bearrick #4 Posted 07 August 2013 - 02:34 PM

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I know there really isn't any historical basis to support the idea, but that wasn't the driving inspiration for me.
The victory marks, from a gameplay standpoint, are little more than psychological reinforcers like gold stars in elementary school. The in game and web based stat pages record kills per plane and the visual element of the marks is more to just show other players and yourself what you have accomplished.
The reason I originally thought that something else could be added was because of how role specializations get engrained into players. Fighters that can't load ordinance still track ground target kills even if a player doesn't ever destroy any. GAs still track plane kills even if the pilot never turns their guns upward.
The idea was just to suggest considering a way for players to choose their own reinforcements and bragging displays. I doubt this idea will gain any ground because of the history aspect, but it was just a thought I had that could potentially encourage player changes.

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MagusGerhardt #5 Posted 08 August 2013 - 02:15 AM

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Hmmm.  An interesting if ahistorical idea, Bear.

In the name of promoting good/better gameplay, though, I could see my way to some visual representation of Assists being made in game.

I would say...make it an additional decoration for the existing air victory markers already in game.

To be a little more clear, they would be additions to the 1/10/50... markers we already have for air victories; as you gain Assists they will accrue just like your air kills and earn the additional decoration to the basic victory symbol at the same levels.

So, for example, if you have 10 kills total on a plane and 50 assists, you will have two air kill markers with the extra decoration, not two markers with decoration and a third decoration without a marker.

I would suggest these decorations, for the following nationalities:

1.  American.  For Army fighters I would suggest a German baltic cross as a background for the plane marker, for Navy fighters make it a Rising Sun.
2.  Soviet.  An easily seen border around the marker.
3.  Japanese.  An easily seen border around the marker.
4.  German.  An easily seen border around the marker.



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bearrick #6 Posted 09 August 2013 - 12:35 AM

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I could definitely see something like that as well, Magus.  Even if the decoration was something as simple as just using the same icon with a different color.

I would still push though for something that encourages the plane role specialization that I keep seeing rage posts about.  "Fighters shouldn't hit ground targets."  "GAs shouldn't fight planes."  It's well and good to make the case, but so long as the ability is there and the psychological reinforcers are only of the two options, players will mark farm for either one.  If there was an option at least that fighters could have two displays that were both exclusively relevant to air kills, it might help to sway some of the issue by further encouraging a specific type of play.

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FreeFOXMIKE #7 Posted 09 August 2013 - 01:55 AM

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half kill marks were used
In the 8th AF, A gold or yellow star above the bomb stencil indicated Group Lead and a red star above indicated Wing Lead, i.e. the "Memphis Belle".
On fighters, an umbrella indicated top cover, aguy in spats and tux indicated an escort mission, a broom showed a sweep (air superiority) and a tank or locomotive indicated close support or train busting.
Camels on the B-29s were symbols of "Hump" gasolinme ferry missions.....there supposedly had to be eleven trips across the Himilayas (the Hump) to store enough gasoline for ONE B-29 Mission from China, until the move of the B-29s to the island of Tinian in the Marianas.
http://forum.armyair...33&high=victory
by wars end both the US and Britain were giving partial kill credits to pilots
aguy in spats and tux indicated an escort mission
http://upload.wikime...Macon_Belle.jpg
had to adjust the image

Edited by FreeFOXMIKE, 09 August 2013 - 07:02 AM.


MagusGerhardt #8 Posted 09 August 2013 - 04:17 AM

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Additional thought;  The German "extra decoration" could be an oak leaf or diamond affixed to the black section of the kill marker.  Would stand out a lot if the extra decoration was done in white for contrast.

Still thinking over flavor art that would be suitable for decorations on Soviet and Japanese markers.



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FreeFOXMIKE #9 Posted 09 August 2013 - 04:37 AM

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View PostTheGreenTank, on 07 August 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

I don't like this idea.

It's already been suggest & submitted to the developing staff to add "kill assists" into the point system behind the kill marks on our planes.

I don't see any reason for using a similar system for the number of battle victories. Is there any historical record of combat planes bearing markers for each victorious battle they participated in (even if their share of the battle was flying patrol for 4 hours & not encountering a single enemy)?

Same issue with total damage to target types. A kill is a kill...your "achievements" statistics are plenty to receive recognition for the amount of total damage you've done (as well as the hefty bonuses to experience & credits per battle).

Same issue again, I think, for marks depending on kill methods. I know there are historical examples of marks for different types of air/ground targets killed, but not based upon the weaponry actually used.

I'd prefer to just keep it simple and easy to figure out. Easy & fun is the name of the game (but leaving plenty of room to try-hard ;P)

That's all just my 2 cents though!

In real life individual unit all "did their own thing" even to this day In the Grunt world you use to put a tick mark on your boonie hat for every day in combat. A lot of things happen that NEVER make the history books trust me.

bearrick #10 Posted 09 August 2013 - 09:43 PM

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View PostMagusGerhardt, on 09 August 2013 - 04:17 AM, said:

Additional thought; The German "extra decoration" could be an oak leaf or diamond affixed to the black section of the kill marker. Would stand out a lot if the extra decoration was done in white for contrast.

Still thinking over flavor art that would be suitable for decorations on Soviet and Japanese markers.

Japanese air kills are those yellow blossoms.  They have white stamen that are kind of hard to see.  Maybe the assist marks for them could have either red stamen or just red sun circles in the middle of them.

Russian air kills are red stars with white borders.
Maybe their marks could change to red squares with white stars or vis versa.


And FFM, I don't know that something like the roll markers would necessarily be useful in terms of display since they denote combat rolls that players might not follow, but I do suspect that something like that will come in eventually where the "other" tab in the exterior window currently lies empty.

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FreeFOXMIKE #11 Posted 10 August 2013 - 12:38 AM

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assist marks could be a simple and a // mark under the AC kill marks

TheGreenTank #12 Posted 10 August 2013 - 11:48 PM

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Just so you all know, a while back I suggested the assists-get-half-kill-points thing & I believe hathore said she's passed it on to the devs.

It seems to have been hidden away in the archives someplace that I can't see, unfortunately, otherwise I'd quote it. :\

FreeFOXMIKE #13 Posted 10 August 2013 - 11:57 PM

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View PostTheGreenTank, on 10 August 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

Just so you all know, a while back I suggested the assists-get-half-kill-points thing & I believe hathore said she's passed it on to the devs.
It seems to have been hidden away in the archives someplace that I can't see, unfortunately, otherwise I'd quote it. :\
history had it way before you did and that what they place a lot of the things  in game on as stated both Britain and the American Air Forces adopted the use of a partial kill system,. if two pilots gun cams showed they both hit the same plane they were both given half a kill

Edited by FreeFOXMIKE, 10 August 2013 - 11:57 PM.


bearrick #14 Posted 11 August 2013 - 12:20 AM

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View PostTheGreenTank, on 10 August 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

Just so you all know, a while back I suggested the assists-get-half-kill-points thing & I believe hathore said she's passed it on to the devs.It seems to have been hidden away in the archives someplace that I can't see, unfortunately, otherwise I'd quote it. :\

If it was before the OBT switch, a lot of those threads simply got deleted.

I've agreed with others that kill assists should count for something at least, and there's nothing different here.

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TheGreenTank #15 Posted 11 August 2013 - 12:36 AM

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View PostFreeFOXMIKE, on 10 August 2013 - 11:57 PM, said:

history had it way before you did and that what they place a lot of the things  in game on as stated both Britain and the American Air Forces adopted the use of a partial kill system,. if two pilots gun cams showed they both hit the same plane they were both given half a kill

I'm fully aware of that...that was the whole premise of my suggestion, in fact.

FreeFOXMIKE #16 Posted 11 August 2013 - 01:27 AM

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View PostTheGreenTank, on 11 August 2013 - 12:36 AM, said:

I'm fully aware of that...that was the whole premise of my suggestion, in fact.
its been posted and archived even,lets focus on getting it done more then getting credit ,ppl can  joust  the credit ball about later lets just get it in the game.
I even posted on it too with links to the AF web site shown how they did it was it after yours,or before I dont know now care I just think its a great Idea and we need it.

Edited by FreeFOXMIKE, 11 August 2013 - 01:28 AM.


TheLucinator #17 Posted 11 August 2013 - 01:30 AM

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a also agree assists are a good additional kill marker, also battles survived would also be a good one, and I know my grandfathers bomber group used markings to show every mission that the plane undertook, so obviously in real life the plane needed to survive to get a marking so battles survived would be a good one.

Also on a similar vain I would like to see kill markings on the tab section, so you can see how good (or at least how many kills the guy has) the pilot who killed you was.

Bluegoose02 #18 Posted 07 September 2013 - 01:49 PM

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I do check the kill marks of the planes I am flying with after being shot down to see what the people are like. It would be nice to see what the other side has to. I do like the idea of showing assist marking of some sort since I have had a lot of planes shot down around while I was coming around to finish the job.