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MM Blues? How to win & profit at low tier...

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MongGrel #21 Posted 17 August 2013 - 06:16 PM

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I vote it needs a pinning myself.
You zinged him for profanity in that post ????
GTFO.
  :amazed:

Magnum62 #22 Posted 29 August 2013 - 03:32 AM

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Good stuff!
A bulldog can whip a skunk, but sometimes it's not worth it." - J. Nowell 

jethro11 #23 Posted 29 August 2013 - 04:03 AM

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ya best post for awhile. Good job man. +1

SkyWolf__WM #24 Posted 29 August 2013 - 04:11 AM

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I always do the best I can. But I'm a pragmatist..... I've never bought into the self fulfilling prophesy (for me anyway). I just do the best I can do and then what happens... happens.
I do believe that a pep talk can help people cease to be HUA and preform better.
I used to manage about 1000 people. Most people (believe it or not) want to do a good job. Give em' the tools and the autonomy and watch em' go.
I think a positive attitude is better than a negative attitude when you have uh... cancer...  or say a terminal degenerative brain disease. It's a good strategy for life in general.
But standing there saying I'm going to beat cancer or ace in a battle doesn't affect the outcome. You can be dead either way.
***************Fail to Suck****************

I shall use my aircraft and my skill to slightly inconvenience mine enemies.


MusicalTom #25 Posted 21 September 2013 - 02:30 PM

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View PostSkyWolf__WM, on 29 August 2013 - 04:11 AM, said:

I always do the best I can. But I'm a pragmatist..... I've never bought into the self fulfilling prophesy (for me anyway). I just do the best I can do and then what happens... happens.
I do believe that a pep talk can help people cease to be HUA and preform better.
I used to manage about 1000 people. Most people (believe it or not) want to do a good job. Give em' the tools and the autonomy and watch em' go.
I think a positive attitude is better than a negative attitude when you have uh... cancer...  or say a terminal degenerative brain disease. It's a good strategy for life in general.
But standing there saying I'm going to beat cancer or ace in a battle doesn't affect the outcome. You can be dead either way.

Great post! Good words!

ledhed14 #26 Posted 24 September 2013 - 04:09 AM

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Is there a tier you can learn the game in before you need worry about Bi planes vs jets etc.  -I played WoT for years so MM insanity is not new its just a challenge you need meet and beat .
But I am just now downloading the game and using the forum while its working , to find out some basics and see how the " attitude " is .
I hate to have run tutorial until my eyeballs fall out to learn and skill up . But if that's the gig then I just use biplanes to shoot down Migs .
  I guess I better read up on tier spread etc. I sense another learning curve headed my way and I need adjust my bat to wack it.

PanzerXO #27 Posted 26 September 2013 - 04:15 AM

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View Postledhed14, on 24 September 2013 - 04:09 AM, said:

Is there a tier you can learn the game in before you need worry about Bi planes vs jets etc.  -I played WoT for years so MM insanity is not new its just a challenge you need meet and beat .
But I am just now downloading the game and using the forum while its working , to find out some basics and see how the " attitude " is .
I hate to have run tutorial until my eyeballs fall out to learn and skill up . But if that's the gig then I just use biplanes to shoot down Migs .
  I guess I better read up on tier spread etc. I sense another learning curve headed my way and I need adjust my bat to wack it.

You've probably already discovered the answer by now; there is never a bi-plane v jets scenario.  MM gets even better for low tier pilots next patch.

The nice thing about WOWP is that even when low tiered you can make a contribution (other than just scouting / sniping and hoping not to be spotted).  The ability to out turn folks means that you can ambush, harass and (if you survive the first pass) take out planes that are two tiers higher, easier than a medium tank can do in WOT vs a two tier higher tank.

That got a bit more difficult in the 5.1 update, but 5.3 should bring it back to center a bit.

View PostRosebud, on , said:


...By flying into the middle you are boldly stating that you are a noob and haven’t learned your lesson yet.
ROSEBUD

MusicalTom #28 Posted 04 October 2013 - 12:01 PM

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View Postledhed14, on 24 September 2013 - 04:09 AM, said:

Is there a tier you can learn the game in before you need worry about Bi planes vs jets etc.  -I played WoT for years so MM insanity is not new its just a challenge you need meet and beat .
But I am just now downloading the game and using the forum while its working , to find out some basics and see how the " attitude " is .
I hate to have run tutorial until my eyeballs fall out to learn and skill up . But if that's the gig then I just use biplanes to shoot down Migs .
  I guess I better read up on tier spread etc. I sense another learning curve headed my way and I need adjust my bat to wack it.
There are training areas Pick the up arrow of the button to the right of the BATTLE button and go through the training.
As far as attitude, sometimes it's good to travel in packs and sometimes it's cool to just chase down "tail end Charlie".
It IS a long learning curve but then again it's a long road up the tiers too so lots of time to learn as you go.
With the tier system generally any plane in your battles are within 3 tiers and all can be shot down with some smarts and skill.
You'll never see a biplane and a mig in the same battle. They would be too many tiers apart.
Welcome to WOW and watch your six.

losttwo #29 Posted 04 October 2013 - 02:24 PM

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Update on this thread...pay attention to it, it has helped me tremendously. My stats have increased from a point zero two to a 1,05 K/D ratio and also have many TOP GUN medals.

Roka12 #30 Posted 20 October 2013 - 11:10 AM

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Well thought out post.  WofW is a complex game for us new folks who haven't been involved in WofT .  Any and all help is much welcomed!

Regards;
Roka
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." (Napoleon)

Alo8ight #31 Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:24 PM

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Good thread!

Happy to hear that the content in this conversation was beneficial to everyone :medal: +1

WulfNose #32 Posted 25 October 2013 - 01:41 AM

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This is an absolutely great post about how to work around one of the major problems in the game, residual defects in the partially repaired MM. How much simpler and more effective it would be to just fix the MM. Will we ever receive a straight answer on this question? Wulf

Edited by WulfNose, 01 November 2013 - 10:21 PM.


IanWten #33 Posted 01 November 2013 - 07:42 PM

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View Postooburai, on 17 August 2013 - 12:56 AM, said:

That said, in general I find compared to WoT being lower tiered is much more forgiving... if you are prepared. You really want to scan the enemy planes before the match and decide how you match up with the specific enemy configurations and whether or not there's anybody you want to avoid at all costs.

Other than this, you can almost always contribute to the team, even if most of the time you're just keeping faster planes in a turning dogfight that they can't safely break out of, this can set them up for a boom and zoom attack from a teammate's heavy. Also, you can pick off the lower tiered planes while the higher tiers deal with the really dangerous enemies.

About this I totally agree. Weaker planes help their team by occupying superior enemies.

Just getting yourself into a column of spinners can be an excellent way to tie up the dumb-dumbs who are flying excellent planes. Those excellent planes shouldn't be trying to out-turn some tier-II biplane all game long, they should be out there nuking the bigger game. The bigger game that's on MY team. The bigger game that's on MY team that's nuking THEIR team's other planes and ground-targets. I think that keeping more-powerful enemies occupied is part of the team-tactic that often gets under-utilized in World-of-Warplanes.

My experience is this. I have begun several Beta Accounts (rather than continuing to build on the strengths of an older account, I have the admins delete my account each time I get to about a Yak-7 or a Spitfire-V level, and start over with the "gift" planes again). And what I see each time is, that although I have some strong "ability" at the controls (I am not a total genius of a pilot, but I'm better than someone who just started yesterday), I am nevertheless often engaging people who have much higher quality planes. In other words, the low-tier of my plane does not match the somewhat higher tier of my joystick-handling; and meanwhile, the higher-tier of THEIR planes does not match the somewhat lower tier of THEIR joystick-handling. In other other words, I'm using my brain and they're just relying on technological quirks.

Here's the thing. In a real-world dogfight, nobody but NOBODY sacrifices three or four deaths on a day in order to learn a little bit about (f.e.) strafing or boom-and-zoom tactics. In this video game, though,  we have unlimited lives. So, we have a lot of people who not only live for the chance to fight another day, but also are willing to die for the chance to fight another day. Wait, uh, "Die and then fight another day"? That doesn't make much sense at all to a real soldier or pilot. If you just put into your head, that you are playing a game in which people get the wrong message about their mortality (that it's expendable and repeatable? I guess ...) then you can play the game much more effectively.

I frankly think the game REWARDS deaths a bit too much. If you can regularly get yourself into a column of, say, six heavy-gunning heavy-turning BF-109-Cs, and you're a tier-II paper plane (say, a bi-plane with great turning but pea-shooter weapons), then you know two or three things.  You  know, they aren't thinking about their technological advantages and disadvantages -- or else they wouldn't be trying to out-turn a plane that can out-turn them! You know that you are flying like a foolish screaming idiot for putting your own mortality at risk -- in the REAL world, nobody but NOBODY would let themselves get into a situation in which six huge-gunned behemoths were that near to their paper plane! Nobody in the real world actually risks his true mortality that way, except in extreme situations, in which heroism and suicide-for-the-greater-good is CALLED FOR because of all the other extraneous circumstances. Consequently, you also know a third thing. If you combine things 1 and 2 (that you're out-turning them, and they're dumb enough to engage in a turning battle; plus, you're free to die a hundred times over), then you know 3, that this GAME is encouraging you into that risk. You get more points, and more tactical gain, and probably more XP, and a more likely team-win, if you do that silly thing that nobody in the real world would do: engage the bigguns in a spinning column!

(This whole thread is excellent, BTW.)

IanWten #34 Posted 01 November 2013 - 07:52 PM

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View Postpanzerdan412, on 17 August 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

My  5 step to  Victory at lower tier
Buy I-16(e)
Surive the merge
Control the furball
Kill
Profit

Yeah, Panzerdan, I like this. I don't know what you mean by "survive the merge," which must be some reference to game-programming rather than to in-battle tactics? Either way, to me the I-16(e) is definitely the route to success in this game. I've tried out the Spitfire route (which goes through the delightful Bristols, the Bristol 133 ((kinda OK)) and the Bristol 146 ((awesome plane!)) ), and that's an OK path to travel. And I've tried out maximizing the Japanese fighters, but I find them oddly under-bodied. They're flimsy. To me, the best route among the middle-tier planes, especially when you consider what "gift" planes you get in the Open Beta, is definitely the I-16(e). I suggest you forego the I-16(late) and just tier sideways on the tech-tree to the I-17, then the Yakovlevs.

Of course, this presumes that your ultimate goals will be in the tier-VI , VII, or VIII range. The IXs and Xs that result from the Yakovlev route are not as great as some of the IXs and Xs elsewhere in the game (or the world). But wait, there is of course the Mig ... but, as far as I can tell, this game doesn't have it. Oddly.

CastorBean #35 Posted 02 November 2013 - 12:01 AM

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The MM has been corrected for tiers II and III. Players in those tiers are no longer confronted with planes two tiers above them and can make a contribution. What an improvement! Is it so difficult to fix the MM for at least tiers IV and V? How difficult can that be?

danoj2k #36 Posted 02 November 2013 - 01:30 AM

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Very well thought out. Thank you so much with the help. Since I just started playing this was a great help. Thank you so much again for your help.  :great:

Sandman1969 #37 Posted 02 November 2013 - 02:18 AM

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View PostCastorBean, on 02 November 2013 - 12:01 AM, said:

The MM has been corrected for tiers II and III. Players in those tiers are no longer confronted with planes two tiers above them and can make a contribution. What an improvement! Is it so difficult to fix the MM for at least tiers IV and V? How difficult can that be?

TMK, tier 3 still sees tier 5. Only tiers 1/2 do not see two tiers above them.

zacsmiff #38 Posted 02 November 2013 - 02:33 AM

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This is a excellent post ! :great:

Its just a shame that it seems only a VERY small percentage of players read the forums !!  :amazed:  :amazed:

Which turns out to be "THEIR LOSS & OUR GAIN"  !!!  :teethhappy:  :playing:

IanWten #39 Posted 03 November 2013 - 07:36 PM

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In my experience, the distance between tiers of aircraft increases when there are fewer players on line. I suspect that the matching system prefers to create a battle that ranges across only two tiers of aircraft -- for example, tiers IV and V only -- but moves to a wider range if it finds that it cannot efficiently do it. In the early dawn hours (I live in Central Time Zone, North America) I find that flying a III can get me pitted against everything from tier-Is up to tier-Vs, sometimes. The Is and the Vs won't be in the same battle, but I think I have been in a battle with a scarce II, and a III, and many IVs, and a scarce V; and I think I have been in a I and II and III battle recently, too. I am not sure of the specifics, but just anecdotally I believe they TRY to limit out-tiering to one or two levels at most. In fact, you ought to be able to hold your own against a tier-III heavy fighter with a tier-I (light) fighter through utilizing those aspects of your technology that are superior to your enemy's. Especially if the enemy doesn't bother to look at the technological differences between himself and his opponent! I have survived many a turning "furball" in lower-tiered craft.

Edited by IanWten, 03 November 2013 - 07:36 PM.


PressureLine #40 Posted 04 November 2013 - 10:52 AM

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Posted Image

An attempt to carry a tier V game in a tier III




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