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German Premium - Ar.197

Ar197 Premium Aircraft Crew Training Preorder

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Draconis76 #21 Posted 09 August 2013 - 02:33 AM

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It is a good question and a legitimate issue. It also is an awkward one though.These packages have been offered for some time now with this plane. You make very good arguments as to they the Ar. 197 is problematic, but they might be sort of stuck with the offer at this point...

MagusGerhardt #22 Posted 09 August 2013 - 03:31 AM

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View PostDraconis76, on 09 August 2013 - 02:33 AM, said:

It is a good question and a legitimate issue. It also is an awkward one though.These packages have been offered for some time now with this plane. You make very good arguments as to they the Ar. 197 is problematic, but they might be sort of stuck with the offer at this point...

I'm not lobbying for the plane to be changed, though.  I've already suggested that the plane be recoded to allow for either light fighter or heavy fighter pilots to fly it without penalty.

 

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bearrick #23 Posted 09 August 2013 - 05:27 AM

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Just curious for some perspective, since I've not played enough tanks to see the extent of crew swapping...

Is there a parallel to this concept in Tanks?
Like I can't imagine that there'd be enough difference between a medium and either light or heavy that should warrant a massive penalty.

Just like with carrier fighters, the only major difference in training is carrier landing procedures.  I could understand heavy fighters getting a penalty since they either have two engines or different characteristics.

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MagusGerhardt #24 Posted 09 August 2013 - 05:54 AM

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In World of Tanks you have different classes of vehicle, much like what we have here.  There's light tanks, medium tanks, heavy tanks, tank destroyers and artillery.  There are premium vehicles of every type.

Your crew in World of Tanks are interchangeable between various vehicles of the same nationality.  The basic skill works the same as it does here, from a 50% baseline to a full 100% qualification.  When a crew is put on a vehicle for which they are not specifically trained they take a hit to their % level, directly impacting how the vehicle will perform.  At 50% a tank feels distinctly mushy, like the crew is drunk and can't properly follow your directions.  It is possible to take the skill level even lower than that through lack of vehicle training and skills below 50% are truly torturous to behold.

If a crew is put on a vehicle for which they are not specifically trained, but is the same class of vehicle, ie a light tank crew put into a different light tank, they take a -25% hit to their skill, taking a 100% crew to 75%.  This penalty is waived if the vehicle the crew is currently in is a Premium Light Tank.  This is why it is said that Premium vehicles require no training in order to be used.

If a crew is put on a vehicle for which they are not specifically trained and is also a different class of vehicle, ie a light tank crew transferred to a medium tank, they take a -50% hit to their skill and this cannot be overcome by the medium tank being a Premium vehicle.

This leads to my concern for the Ar.197's training ability/utility, as it is currently the only German Carrier Fighter in game and according to the History Books, even allowing for prototypes and blueprints there could only ever be two Carrier Fighters for Germany other than this one; so there will be no tech tree specifically for naval aviation for this nation.  There simply will be no pilots to train on this plane if there are no tech tree naval fighters.

 

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bearrick #25 Posted 09 August 2013 - 06:19 AM

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That's what I was wondering.
So it'd seem that unless such an affordance would be added, which I guess would seem unlikely,  there'd be no reason to transfer crew to this plane. nless you had an uber tier 1 pilot at launch and then never transferred them off the plane.

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MagusGerhardt #26 Posted 09 August 2013 - 06:24 AM

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View Postbearrick, on 09 August 2013 - 06:19 AM, said:

Unless you had an uber tier 1 pilot at launch and then never transferred them off the plane.

Except that Uber Tier I pilot will be trained for a Light Fighter.  The Ar.197 is a Carrier Fighter.  Following the pre-existing rules for crew swapping above, that Uber pilot would be reduced to 50% skill by the transfer.

 

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bearrick #27 Posted 09 August 2013 - 06:37 AM

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View PostMagusGerhardt, on 09 August 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

Except that Uber Tier I pilot will be trained for a Light Fighter. The Ar.197 is a Carrier Fighter. Following the pre-existing rules for crew swapping above, that Uber pilot would be reduced to 50% skill by the transfer.

Even with multiple skills trained? Or would it just drop 50% of whatever the current trained skill is?

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IndygoEEI #28 Posted 10 August 2013 - 02:31 AM

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I just made a suggestion for trainer aircraft.  Yeah.  I think Germany is the only country in game
who can't make a carrier line.  In fact, I think Russia has better chance of pulling it off.

But anyway...

The deal with trainers is to make them premium aircraft that can universally receive crew.  As it
stands, AR. 197 has no actual purpose for...

Hmm... I guess any player?  Well, except maybe tourney events since it is the best in class Tier 4
Carrier, but that's a very small amount of people to buy the plane even if it's a preorder special.
Heck, what happens when it gets general public release?  What then?

WG, I agree with OP.  Unless you can demonstrate Germany can have a decent carrier line,
please make it a universal trainer for Germany.

MagusGerhardt #29 Posted 10 August 2013 - 02:01 PM

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Sky's the Limit weekend bumpage!

 

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pyantoryng #30 Posted 10 August 2013 - 02:09 PM

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Okay, I see the problem.

There's no CBF in German line (and not very likely, if it is even likely in the first place).

So...what could they do to address this...

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hathore #31 Posted 10 August 2013 - 08:00 PM

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Hi there,

Until balancing is truly addressed and all planes are introduced into play, I cant truly comment on this either way.
However, I will definitely pass on these concerns!

Thanks for posting.

~Hathore

MagusGerhardt #32 Posted 11 August 2013 - 12:30 AM

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View Posthathore, on 10 August 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

Hi there,

Until balancing is truly addressed and all planes are introduced into play, I cant truly comment on this either way.
However, I will definitely pass on these concerns!

Thanks for posting.

~Hathore

Thank you Hathore, I'll agree that the second point I brought up is a balance issue, and probably not an issue at all comparing those bombs to other carrier fighter bombs.

The real issue is the fact that the plane won't be usable as a crew trainer at all.  It's good to know that this will be passed along.   :honoring:

 

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hathore #33 Posted 11 August 2013 - 02:32 AM

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View PostMagusGerhardt, on 11 August 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

Thank you Hathore, I'll agree that the second point I brought up is a balance issue, and probably not an issue at all comparing those bombs to other carrier fighter bombs.

The real issue is the fact that the plane won't be usable as a crew trainer at all.  It's good to know that this will be passed along.   :honoring:

Indeed not a problem at all!
I can see it being an issue later on down the road if they did not think of it yet, so appreciate it!

AdmiralKird #34 Posted 11 August 2013 - 09:37 AM

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There were also no other Chinese tanks in the game when the T-59 was introduced.
That sure didn't stop people from buying it.
Also, has it been mentioned anywhere that the type of plane will restrict the crew from being transferred? It's been awhile since I've played tanks heavily, but I always thought you could move medium/heavy crews in and out of the tanks so long as they were the same nation.


Jiri_Starrider said:
IMO you're hamstrung by WG's deep-rooted "I've got a secret" complex.

MagusGerhardt #35 Posted 11 August 2013 - 05:11 PM

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View PostAdmiralKird, on 11 August 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

There were also no other Chinese tanks in the game when the T-59 was introduced.
That sure didn't stop people from buying it.
Also, has it been mentioned anywhere that the type of plane will restrict the crew from being transferred? It's been awhile since I've played tanks heavily, but I always thought you could move medium/heavy crews in and out of the tanks so long as they were the same nation.
Nothing prevents you from moving a medium tank crew to a heavy tank crew; they have all the same crew positions (usually) and both usually have a crew of five.
What keeps that from being a good idea is the -50% crew skill hit you'll take doing it, because the two vehicles are of different classes.  I just tested this out 5 minutes ago, moving my Panzer IV crew onto my Panzer VIB Bengal Tiger.
I'm fairly certain that things will work exactly the same here in Warplanes once we have a barracks patched in, because spending gold on crew training is part of WG's income stream and business model.  It's been successful there so it will be used again here, which is why I'm concerned about having a potentially useless Ar.197 in my hangar unless allowance is made for it to accept other aircraft type crews.
Logically speaking there are no differences between it and low tier light fighters other than the carrier-specific landing gear and the bombs.

View PostAdmiralKird, on 11 August 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

There were also no other Chinese tanks in the game when the T-59 was introduced.
That sure didn't stop people from buying it.
Indeed, and it didn't stop me from preordering the package that included it.  However, unlike the full Chinese tank tech tree that we now have in World of Tanks, there is no basis in fact or fiction for inclusion of a German carrier line here.  They only had two planned in blueprints aside from the Ar.197; the Bf.109T and the Bv.155 (which was just another modification of the 109 with a few new parts thrown in).
Also, what's up with all the CareBear avatars amongst the CAs?  Or is it a SuperTest thing?

 

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