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OpenEmUp #1 Posted 18 July 2013 - 11:58 AM

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Considering they took away or aircraft discussion for each plane forum ill start some topics on some planes
So here we go with 3 simple questions.

1.How much does this aircraft play a roll in battle?
2.Is this aircraft foresay. Balanced/Underpowered/Overpowered, Explain
3.Does this aircraft relate to its historical backgrounds?
4.Is the tier range for this aircraft correct
5.Additional Information

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OpenEmUp #2 Posted 18 July 2013 - 01:57 PM

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1. At this time in Open beta- Significant, due to the fact the pilots with these aircraft are very skilled and flight up together and pub nubs all day
2. Refer to 1. Balanced at its tier range, being top tier againsts all 6s and 7s Over powered
3. The early versions of the ME 262 had throttle problems and does not seem to correlate here (obviously cause cant incorporate that) other than that the armament and speed and shape is relatively good
4. Yes and no
5. NA

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petersleepy #3 Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:37 PM

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If you play the plane right, no other tier 8 can catch you and beat you in a 1v1...It literally takes half the team, taking off small percentages of hit points each pass, to successfully take down the 262.

"It's only game, why you heff to be mad?" ~Ilya Bryzgalov


shwedor #4 Posted 18 July 2013 - 03:39 PM

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View Postpetersleepy, on 18 July 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

If you play the plane right, no other tier 8 can catch you and beat you in a 1v1...It literally takes half the team, taking off small percentages of hit points each pass, to successfully take down the 262.

Or it takes two planes at staggered altitudes, one waiting up high and the other down low to kill it. Eventually it will have to turn and its only option then is to climb.
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OpenEmUp #5 Posted 18 July 2013 - 03:46 PM

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View Postshwedor, on 18 July 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

Or it takes two planes at staggered altitudes, one waiting up high and the other down low to kill it. Eventually it will have to turn and its only option then is to climb.
Im sorry but me and sinister tryed that last night, you also didnt think about this option- FLYING AWAY

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shwedor #6 Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:34 PM

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View PostOpenEmUp, on 18 July 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

Im sorry but me and sinister tryed that last night, you also didnt think about this option- FLYING AWAY

You can only fly so far before you hit out of bounds, eventually even a slow plane will catch you.
Not a poser P51A troll but around 145+ games, 90% win rate, too many to count kills.
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OpenEmUp #7 Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:43 PM

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View Postshwedor, on 18 July 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

You can only fly so far before you hit out of bounds, eventually even a slow plane will catch you.
And by that time you flew away lost visibility and you could be anywhere, I do not think you really "think" about game  simple mechanics before you post

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shwedor #8 Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:48 PM

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View PostOpenEmUp, on 18 July 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

And by that time you flew away lost visibility and you could be anywhere, I do not think you really "think" about game  simple mechanics before you post
\


Yea, I don't think. Its not like I don't have 20,000 some kills since Alpha testing or anything. I think I know more about cutting off fast planes than you would like to believe.
Not a poser P51A troll but around 145+ games, 90% win rate, too many to count kills.
Overall: 2300+ games, 85% win rate, 5.3k+ air kills
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Heh #9 Posted 18 July 2013 - 05:08 PM

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View PostOpenEmUp, on 18 July 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

And by that time you flew away lost visibility and you could be anywhere, I do not think you really "think" about game  simple mechanics before you post

Let's study a little trigonometry shall we? The length of a single side of a triangle will always be shorter than the sum of the two other sides. Now, during a boom and zoom attack, there's the running if the target is still up. That's the first side of the triangle. In order to make sure your target is down, you must turn back and hit it again, then leave yet again if you miss. The turn towards the target changes your flight path and a second side is formed, but its angle relative to the first side is a variable depending on how much the pilot wants to turn.

Now if the slower plane can finish the triangle, it will form the final side, which is shorter than the total length of the path the faster plane took. If the angle at which the faster aircraft turned is large enough, the distance the slower plane has to travel will be lower, and thus the chance of getting damaged or rammed is higher. A running plane will HAVE to turn steeply due to the map borders, and thus the chance of getting intercepted increases the closer the two planes get to the border.
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View Posthahiha, on , said:


OMG Heh you have had so many posts O_O

OpenEmUp #10 Posted 18 July 2013 - 05:25 PM

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View PostHeh, on 18 July 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

Let's study a little trigonometry shall we? The length of a single side of a triangle will always be shorter than the sum of the two other sides. Now, during a boom and zoom attack, there's the running if the target is still up. That's the first side of the triangle. In order to make sure your target is down, you must turn back and hit it again, then leave yet again if you miss. The turn towards the target changes your flight path and a second side is formed, but its angle relative to the first side is a variable depending on how much the pilot wants to turn.

Now if the slower plane can finish the triangle, it will form the final side, which is shorter than the total length of the path the faster plane took. If the angle at which the faster aircraft turned is large enough, the distance the slower plane has to travel will be lower, and thus the chance of getting damaged or rammed is higher. A running plane will HAVE to turn steeply due to the map borders, and thus the chance of getting intercepted increases the closer the two planes get to the border.

Well thats great and all, but were not playing a flight simulator, and different planes have different flight speeds and drag
So lets study a little about video games

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shwedor #11 Posted 18 July 2013 - 06:00 PM

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View PostOpenEmUp, on 18 July 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

Well thats great and all, but were not playing a flight simulator, and different planes have different flight speeds and drag
So lets study a little about video games

View Postpetersleepy, on 18 July 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

If you play the plane right, no other tier 8 can catch you and beat you in a 1v1...It literally takes half the team, taking off small percentages of hit points each pass, to successfully take down the 262.

Yes, let us study. The F5U pancake has better climb rate (in fact, as good as some tier 10's), higher speed, lower stall speed, and in my opinion better guns along with better turning than the 262. Its only disadvantage is really climb duration, which is rather irrelevant if it is played properly. The F5U can EASILY beat a 262. People keep saying that they can't beat the 262, mostly these people are flying ground based fighters of the German and US line or Japanese planes. Each plane has a counterpart which beats it out in some aspect, the land based fighters and Japanese fighters are simply the wrong choice for going after a 262. Just as an IL2 probably isn't the best choice for hunting a P-40.
Not a poser P51A troll but around 145+ games, 90% win rate, too many to count kills.
Overall: 2300+ games, 85% win rate, 5.3k+ air kills
Potato Team Member - (1st place in all Air Raids and North American tournaments)

http://forum.wotlabs.net/index.php?/topic/4478-wargaming-na-for-wowp-completely-incompetent/#entry79586

Heh #12 Posted 18 July 2013 - 06:09 PM

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View PostOpenEmUp, on 18 July 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

Well thats great and all, but were not playing a flight simulator, and different planes have different flight speeds and drag
So lets study a little about video games

Dude, that rule applies to EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE OF CUTTING OFF. Racing games? Yep, cut through the sidewalk just to get ahead. FPSes? Yes, you can do this with a shotgun even when the guy is running like a fangirl tailing a boyband because game mode modifications. Chasing some doof that stole your money? Well you're going to indirectly use that property to cut him off. Ship warfare? Well absolutely,  especially since ships are easy to predict in terms of path with their ridiculously slow speeds. In fact as long as the runner changes direction, that rule directly applies.

I know, you can't see it in arcade situations because geometry, but man, some kinds of geometry are inevitable, just like some kinds of algebra are inevitable.
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View Posthahiha, on , said:


OMG Heh you have had so many posts O_O

OpenEmUp #13 Posted 18 July 2013 - 06:11 PM

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View PostHeh, on 18 July 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

Dude, that rule applies to EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE OF CUTTING OFF. Racing games? Yep, cut through the sidewalk just to get ahead. FPSes? Yes, you can do this with a shotgun even when the guy is running like a fangirl tailing a boyband because game mode modifications. Chasing some doof that stole your money? Well you're going to indirectly use that property to cut him off. Ship warfare? Well absolutely,  especially since ships are easy to predict in terms of path with their ridiculously slow speeds. In fact as long as the runner changes direction, that rule directly applies.

I know, you can't see it in arcade situations because geometry, but man, some kinds of geometry are inevitable, just like some kinds of algebra are inevitable.
You know depending on the tier level and the flier, you can argue physics all you want but when your doing 150+ over the planes trying to match up with you it dont matter

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snoopy_pooh #14 Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:11 AM

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All I know is in a lower tier 109F-G I have no chance vs a decent 262 driver,  unless he fly's by me in a straight line I'm not gonna have a shot on him.   Of course the same is true for a decent 209 pilot as well.

OpenEmUp #15 Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:35 AM

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View PostAlexVandross, on 19 July 2013 - 01:18 AM, said:

Considering you're more agile.. you control whether or not he hits you. Thus, he has to either a) turn to adjust aim and/or b) zoom away again. And, for a few seconds, he's in firing range of a tier 6/7.
4

neeeerrrroooooooooooo
whew i missed him whered he go
nneeerrooooooooo

o man i missed him again
nneerroooo
ok i got some hits on him but he messed me up
neeerroooooooo
whew i missed him
nneeeroooooooo
man i cant quite catch up to him
The everyday life of a lvl 6/7 trying to keep in touch with a 262
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shwedor #16 Posted 19 July 2013 - 03:14 AM

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View PostOpenEmUp, on 19 July 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

4

neeeerrrroooooooooooo
whew i missed him whered he go
nneeerrooooooooo

o man i missed him again
nneerroooo
ok i got some hits on him but he messed me up
neeerroooooooo
whew i missed him
nneeeroooooooo
man i cant quite catch up to him
The everyday life of a lvl 6/7 trying to keep in touch with a 262
brought to you by
Openemup

I fail to see how you missing the 262 has anything to do with the 262 being in some way, shape, or form overpowered/underpowered. Your gunnery skills/fighting skills are a separate issue, and are completely irrelevant to this thread or forum subsection. We, as the long established players, do ask that you, the new players, not factor your abilities into the balancing of planes for risk of unbalancing the game in ways you are not yet able to comprehend. I would suggest having at least 100 battles in a plane before giving an opinion, and that is 100 battles each time a change/patch is implemented.

Edited by shwedor, 19 July 2013 - 03:16 AM.

Not a poser P51A troll but around 145+ games, 90% win rate, too many to count kills.
Overall: 2300+ games, 85% win rate, 5.3k+ air kills
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http://forum.wotlabs.net/index.php?/topic/4478-wargaming-na-for-wowp-completely-incompetent/#entry79586

OpenEmUp #17 Posted 19 July 2013 - 03:27 AM

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View Postshwedor, on 19 July 2013 - 03:14 AM, said:

I fail to see how you missing the 262 has anything to do with the 262 being in some way, shape, or form overpowered/underpowered. Your gunnery skills/fighting skills are a separate issue, and are completely irrelevant to this thread or forum subsection. We, as the long established players, do ask that you, the new players, not factor your abilities into the balancing of planes for risk of unbalancing the game in ways you are not yet able to comprehend. I would suggest having at least 100 battles in a plane before giving an opinion, and that is 100 battles each time a change/patch is implemented.
I had 80 battles in my 262 pre wipe does that count sweater?

This is open beta now, things are a tad bit different

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snoopy_pooh #18 Posted 19 July 2013 - 06:25 AM

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Hence my statement "if he's not stupid enough to fly by you giving you easy shots",, and most aren't.

OpenEmUp #19 Posted 19 July 2013 - 11:39 AM

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View PostAlexVandross, on 19 July 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:


What you're experiencing right now is just a lack of many tier 8s and 7's and 9's to make it a "balanced" fight. Especially, many of the veteran players aren't in any rush to make tier 8+.
GENIUS, Thats what i have been getting at this whole time....................

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