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Vote: A unique approach to the "MM Crisis" for new players


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Poll: Matchmaking System (136 members have cast votes)

Do you think the current matchmaker is fine/fair?

  1. Yes. (34 votes [25.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

  2. No. (53 votes [38.97%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 38.97%

  3. Yes, with exception of Tier 2's shouldn't see Tier 4's (unless flighted with 3+) (49 votes [36.03%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 36.03%

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pressgang2 #161 Posted 05 August 2013 - 12:03 AM

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View PostDraconis76, on 04 August 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

If they had 'nothing to do' with my position, I wouldn't have said those words. However the part you object to, the timing (which by the way I still stand by), does not weaken my position.

In fact, if this has been in place since the beginning, it strengthens my position. If it has been thus from the beginning, then why shouldn't WoWp be the same from the beginning?


wot has 300 people waiting for a game to start and wowp has 30

Draconis76 #162 Posted 05 August 2013 - 12:08 AM

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View Postjeffreyac, on 04 August 2013 - 11:47 PM, said:

So, the choice is either the enemy HQ or air targets?
  In this case, I'd humbly suggest it would be more productive as a tier V IL in a tier VII match to NOT beeline towards the enemy HQ, but instead take out the other targets - you could probably get 8 or 10 ground targets with your 8 rockets and 4 bombs that way.
...but of course, the beauty is you're welcome to play how you like, and you saw that if you choose to still engage the HQ in a bottom tier GA, it can be done.

I dropped a bomb on a 'regular target' on the way. It failed to take it out, which is why I saved the other three for the HQ. Everything was scaled up, not just the HQ.

Draconis76 #163 Posted 05 August 2013 - 12:14 AM

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View Postpressgang2, on 05 August 2013 - 12:03 AM, said:

wot has 300 people waiting for a game to start and wowp has 30

1) This is beta, so presumably lower numbers than live.

2) My suggestion is to still allow for wider spreads as needed to keep wait times down, or at least to allow narrower spreads to happen as demographics permit.

Aus_Fox69 #164 Posted 01 September 2013 - 08:10 PM

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the MM at lower levels is terrible. this isn't WoT where the low tier planes can hide in the back and snipe, or spot for the bigger planes. Seeing planes 2 tiers higher than your level at tier 2-3 is just painfull.
Yes the responses are going to be " a tier 2 can take out a tier 4" and so on. The weapon and speed differences are huge at those levels, and even a stray burst decimates these lower level planes being dragged into higher tier MM.

At it's current state, i wont be playing WoWp when it is released unless it becomes a major part of CW.


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PressureLine #165 Posted 16 September 2013 - 08:04 AM

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View PostDraconis76, on 05 August 2013 - 12:14 AM, said:

1) This is beta, so presumably lower numbers than live.

2) My suggestion is to still allow for wider spreads as needed to keep wait times down, or at least to allow narrower spreads to happen as demographics permit.

In my experience (confirmation bias, I know, and I will talk more about that soon...) low spreads can and do happen. Low server/queue populations is the main problem. I play off-peak, because I'm not based in the US (I like to play with other players who speak/write english) which means I get some absurdly trolltastic games. Like when Im flying a tier II and get thrown in with 20 Tier IV's, 8 III's and another II because that is all that was in the queue at the time. Compared to when I play WoT theres pretty much always at least 100 players in the queue, matches where theres one bottom tiered tank on each team (scouts and failplatoons excluded) just don't happen (being the only, or one of two TOP tiered tanks does happen, and tbfh, those games arent really any easier [for me anyway]). Double or triple the number of players and the MM won't have to set up battles like we see currently.

Confirmation bias! This is a really cool one. In general, you remember the outliers, the exceptions, the extraordinary. Add to that the expectation of a result, in this case "I'm bottom tier, I'm gonna get stomped." And you've got a serious recipe for some wicked confirmation bias. You will barely even remember all those games where you were bottom tier, had a good (but not exceptional, maybe a kill or two, and a GT destroyed) game and survived almost (or even the whole way) to the end, but every time a BF110 comes screaming down from 2000m on your tier II fighter 2 minutes into the match and destroys you in a single pass you'll go "See! I knew it! It's hopeless being bottom tier." And you'll remember that, and every other time it happens, and all you'll be able to quickly recall is all those times you got roflstomped (and the times when you had exceptionally good games) which then *further* reinforces your belief that being bottom tiered is a hopeless situation.

This also crops up with arty in WoT, people come onto the forums and whine about getting one shotted from full health by artillery. Yes, it happens, but no, it doesnt happen every game. Most of the time those arty shots will be lucky to do much more damage in a single shot than a heavy tank or TD of the same tier. But those shots A) dont register, a heavy with 1600hp will notice that its lost 200-400 health, but unless it knocks yout half your crew and sets you on fire (or completely destroys the tank) you're unlikely to notice and B) are perfectly average so even if you *do* notice you are taking artillery fire, you probably don't care any more than if it was another tank or TD that had done the damage. But then, once in 100 games, a shell whistles in out of nowhere and flattens you. Game over, you're dead. Cue rage, frustration and unceasing forum whines.

My take on the whole MM situation is "Lets see how it works out when the server pop is 5000 off-peak, and theres 100+ people always in the queue." If certain tiers/planes are getting the stinky end of the endoscope more often than average, then its time to look at changing things.

GodRugal #166 Posted 16 September 2013 - 05:12 PM

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i honestly believe this game will have a VERY tough time retaining new players in the current setup/mm.
how can a new player be expected to learn when 90% of battles are over in 3-4 min?
why would a new player stay when they are killed almost immediately?
tanks is different because it is slow enough and there is cover, preventing new players from getting into too much trouble right away.

Edited by GodRugal, 16 September 2013 - 05:12 PM.


dhread #167 Posted 17 September 2013 - 05:45 AM

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Personally, having not played beyond tier IV, I have to say that T1 vs T3 is a really tough match up.
A new player to the game trying to get a feel for controls, etc...it will *NOT* get the 'cooooool' response the devs (and players) want from new players.

Honestly, most T3's have access to either multiple .50cal or 20mms...a T1 is a single burst fireball.

Same with T2 vs T4.

T4 vs T6...bring it on baby...one on one -- you are going down in flames (about 50% of the time).
Looking at specs and reading the forum, it seems like it is more of a match past tier V. Of course, greater variance in aircraft and continual tweaking of the MM will help this to some extent.

ALTHOUGH...a two tier spread before you get tier IV aircraft in your hanger could be a selection/check box to test your skills.

And I assume the 'clan war' and 'plane company' variant will allow for any mix/match that fits within the applicable contest specs.

I WANT MY T-50-2 BACK! :angry: 

(yes I did!)


jeffreyac #168 Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:34 AM

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Tier 1's don't fight tier 3's.

so....  yeah.

Gnomeward #169 Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:28 AM

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Now I'm not sure how the MM is supposed to work but coming from WoT I expect it to be similar. I expect to see planes 2 tiers higher than me and planes 2 tiers lower than me in matches (obv not the same match). I have been doing a bit of testing today and have just finished my 12th match of the day. Since all my planes were wiped I have progressed back up to tier 3s. Out of 12 games played I fought 11 on National Park with 3-8 tier 5 planes the rest consisting of 4s and 3s. In 1 match I fought on Harbor with 7 tier 4s per team and the rest tier 3s. Is there no other option for tier 3 planes than to fight up? I have not seen a single tier 1 or 2 in any of these games and I have never had a game of solid 3s even though that matchup would be entirely possible according to the numbers displayed in the queue. In fact I started exiting the queue if 10 or more tier 5s were present, and when only 4 tier 5s were there in the queue I had the privilege of seeing 16. . . SIXTEEN of them in my same match. Please take the time to fix your system before you go to final release WoWP crew.  I have my doubts you can accomplish this given how much time you've had to perfect the WoT MM and seeing what happens in there (solo m4a3e2 in a tier 9 match? one team gets say 8 tier 7s; 3 tier 6s; and 4 solo matched tier 5s while the other team gets 9 tier 7s; and 6 tier 6s.) Nevertheless I'd appreciate it if you'd try. If you don't want to try and can't program a calculator into your software I would be interested in working for you and adding numbers together. I'm very good at adding and subtracting in increments of 1 or 2.

Edited by Gnomeward, 18 September 2013 - 04:58 AM.


PressureLine #170 Posted 18 September 2013 - 06:34 AM

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View PostGnomeward, on 18 September 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

Now I'm not sure how the MM is supposed to work but coming from WoT I expect it to be similar. I expect to see planes 2 tiers higher than me and planes 2 tiers lower than me in matches (obv not the same match). I have been doing a bit of testing today and have just finished my 12th match of the day. Since all my planes were wiped I have progressed back up to tier 3s. Out of 12 games played I fought 11 on National Park with 3-8 tier 5 planes the rest consisting of 4s and 3s. In 1 match I fought on Harbor with 7 tier 4s per team and the rest tier 3s. Is there no other option for tier 3 planes than to fight up? I have not seen a single tier 1 or 2 in any of these games and I have never had a game of solid 3s even though that matchup would be entirely possible according to the numbers displayed in the queue. In fact I started exiting the queue if 10 or more tier 5s were present, and when only 4 tier 5s were there in the queue I had the privilege of seeing 16. . . SIXTEEN of them in my same match. Please take the time to fix your system before you go to final release WoWP crew.  I have my doubts you can accomplish this given how much time you've had to perfect the WoT MM and seeing what happens in there (solo m4a3e2 in a tier 9 match? one team gets say 8 tier 7s; 3 tier 6s; and 4 solo matched tier 5s while the other team gets 9 tier 7s; and 6 tier 6s.) Nevertheless I'd appreciate it if you'd try. If you don't want to try and can't program a calculator into your software I would be interested in working for you and adding numbers together. I'm very good at adding and subtracting in increments of 1 or 2.

All of that is because of low player count. Once theres enough players MM will start balancing teams properly. Right now its either "ok theres 30 players in tier 3-4-5, and 40 in the queue, starting match..." or "ok, i have players who have been waiting 3 minutes for a match now, looks like there are 10 planes in the 2-3-4 range, starting match..." MM's job right now is hard because its doing what it can to fill up games enough to be playable. In WoT, in close to 18 months of playing, I can count on one hand the number of less-than-full matches I've been in. In WoWP currently I get more than that between cigarette breaks.

To re-iterate, it isn't the MM's fault, its the fact that theres only 35 players in the queue, spread across tiers 1-7 (i rarely see multiple tier 8 9 and 10 planes in the queue) It's trying to give everyone a game within a reasonable timeframe. Would you rather have a game after a minute in the queue, or sit around for 5 minutes then get thrown into a 4v4 because there is literally no-one else to play with.

ANd the "omg im bottom tier, I can't contribute!" thing is just a lack of imagination. All you need to do is ajust your playstyle, be less agressive and fly to your plane's strengths

Gnomeward #171 Posted 18 September 2013 - 07:54 AM

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View PostPressureLine, on 18 September 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

All of that is because of low player count. Once theres enough players MM will start balancing teams properly. Right now its either "ok theres 30 players in tier 3-4-5, and 40 in the queue, starting match..." or "ok, i have players who have been waiting 3 minutes for a match now, looks like there are 10 planes in the 2-3-4 range, starting match..." MM's job right now is hard because its doing what it can to fill up games enough to be playable. In WoT, in close to 18 months of playing, I can count on one hand the number of less-than-full matches I've been in. In WoWP currently I get more than that between cigarette breaks.

To re-iterate, it isn't the MM's fault, its the fact that theres only 35 players in the queue, spread across tiers 1-7 (i rarely see multiple tier 8 9 and 10 planes in the queue) It's trying to give everyone a game within a reasonable timeframe. Would you rather have a game after a minute in the queue, or sit around for 5 minutes then get thrown into a 4v4 because there is literally no-one else to play with.

ANd the "omg im bottom tier, I can't contribute!" thing is just a lack of imagination. All you need to do is ajust your playstyle, be less agressive and fly to your plane's strengths

So since there are so few people the 2s play only with the 1s because they need the player count. Ok, I get it, but I don't like it. I know I can contribute a few hits as a lower tier and in the right plane outmaneuver a few higher tier planes. It really limits your play though, in the I-16e and the A5M you can stay alive (but to what end) but the AR 80 and the Hawk have nothing going for them and those are the trees that I really want to progress down. Whatever, my whining session is over. Can't wait to see british planes!

WulfNose #172 Posted 18 September 2013 - 12:24 PM

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It sounds like the new MM will solve most of the problems. Wulf

caeman #173 Posted 18 September 2013 - 12:27 PM

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View PostWulfNose, on 18 September 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

It sounds like the new MM will solve most of the problems. Wulf

Indeed.  0.5.3 adds 2-3 and 3-4 battle groupings, so that should fix the biggest problems we are identifying for potential new pilots and other disparate tier differences that greatly imbalance potential combat.

Last night, in one of my losses in my TSh-1, I never reached a ground target because the tier 4 planes were so much faster; and once the bugger was on my tail, there was no shaking him.  TSh-1's don't exactly shake targets.  It was many levels of frustrating.

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PressureLine #174 Posted 20 September 2013 - 05:16 AM

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View Postcaeman, on 18 September 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

Indeed.  0.5.3 adds 2-3 and 3-4 battle groupings, so that should fix the biggest problems we are identifying for potential new pilots and other disparate tier differences that greatly imbalance potential combat.

Last night, in one of my losses in my TSh-1, I never reached a ground target because the tier 4 planes were so much faster; and once the bugger was on my tail, there was no shaking him.  TSh-1's don't exactly shake targets.  It was many levels of frustrating.

Yes. But the new battle tier levels arent going to magically make there be enough players to actually use them. Until theres about 3x as many people online at a time, you are still going to end up with those games where theres 10 tier 4's, 3 tier 3's and 2 tier 2's on each side, it's not gonna let the tier 4's fight it out in a 10vs10 and let the tier 2-3 planes have a 5vs5.

jeffreyac #175 Posted 22 September 2013 - 03:21 PM

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View PostPressureLine, on 20 September 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

Yes. But the new battle tier levels arent going to magically make there be enough players to actually use them. Until theres about 3x as many people online at a time, you are still going to end up with those games where theres 10 tier 4's, 3 tier 3's and 2 tier 2's on each side, it's not gonna let the tier 4's fight it out in a 10vs10 and let the tier 2-3 planes have a 5vs5.

...and my favorite part will be listening to the forums at that point.

"OMG I never get full matches!! WTF is this!! Fix the stupid matchmaker so my battles are full and I don't have to wait so long!!"

PressureLine #176 Posted 23 September 2013 - 07:27 AM

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That's what its like now. I play at around 1-5am PDT and I'd say around 75% of my battles are short ones. Compared to WoT at the same time, theres usually at least 6000 online, and 120+ in the queue, in the 12+ months I've been playing WoT I've had so few shorthanded battles I can remember them all individually.

All whining about MM is pointless until theres enough players in the queue to get a decent matchup of tiers and types.

Centurion_LXIV #177 Posted 23 September 2013 - 09:07 AM

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What you have to realise is that MM has to deal with a VERY low server population and that is simply because we are here to test the planes and the game mechanics.

I transferred from WoT NA to SEA (now ASIA) and waited for up to 5 minutes for a battle and got a 7v7.

Now that the population is over 25k the MM is better and the games are usually better matched, aside from the obvious 8.7 glitch.

So my suggestion is to keep doing what we are doing, I am sure there will be a huge increase in player numbers when the game goes live

Waiting patiently for the flight path to ASIA to be announced so all my accounts can be linked 


losttwo #178 Posted 23 September 2013 - 12:04 PM

    which way do we go?

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The spread should not be any wider than 1 tier until after tier 3 IE  tier 1-1 / 1-2 / 2-2 / 2-3 / 3-3 / 3-4 / 3-4-5 / etc...although I have no trouble with my tier 2 taking on a tier 4 if you have a good team.




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