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Counter-intuitive Attitude Indicator


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Traurig_Yoda #21 Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:17 PM

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View PostKenworthDriver, on 15 August 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

would it  matter?? the more time they actually spend in an aircraft the better... I know they have  people in 6 or 8 different countries... including the US.. but like  I say,  fly them there and let them learn...   the cost  involved is  pathetically small compared to  the gains of getting it right...

Honestly I just want an artificial horizon indicator that works as the western world looks at them, I don't care if the devs ever set foot in an air plane.

My question as to where the devs are located was pure curiosity nothing else.

Tessmacher #22 Posted 18 August 2013 - 03:53 AM

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I'm going to give Dr. Sinister's mod on the attitude indicator a go, and see how it works. My worry is that the basic "language" of this thing is Russian, and as a result everything is in metric, and I won't be able to take advantage of the instrumentation as a result.

GrumpyReign #23 Posted 18 August 2013 - 05:06 AM

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dammit, someone needs to say it:

in soviet russia, horizon indicates YOU!

Yes, I am an A-S-S.

 

I am welcomed in the home of ravens and other scavengers in the wake of warriors.
I am friend to carrion crows and wolves.
I am carry me and kill with me and die with me where the road ends.
I am not the honeyed promise of length of life in years to come,
I am the iron promise of never being a slave.


GrumpyReign #24 Posted 18 August 2013 - 05:12 AM

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eh, metric v imperial is a secondary consideration compared to simply giving you relativistic information. i mean, i'm pretty sure that this game does not do a great job of following the physics of flight all that closely as that is not really the main thrust here. i mean, i haven't bothered to switch over from metric because it doesn't matter how fast i'm going - that confers nothing i need to know about how my bird is performing. what matters is how fast i'm going relative to how fast everyone else is going.

Yes, I am an A-S-S.

 

I am welcomed in the home of ravens and other scavengers in the wake of warriors.
I am friend to carrion crows and wolves.
I am carry me and kill with me and die with me where the road ends.
I am not the honeyed promise of length of life in years to come,
I am the iron promise of never being a slave.


Tessmacher #25 Posted 18 August 2013 - 07:33 PM

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I gu

View PostGrumpyReign, on 18 August 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

eh, metric v imperial is a secondary consideration compared to simply giving you relativistic information. i mean, i'm pretty sure that this game does not do a great job of following the physics of flight all that closely as that is not really the main thrust here. i mean, i haven't bothered to switch over from metric because it doesn't matter how fast i'm going - that confers nothing i need to know about how my bird is performing. what matters is how fast i'm going relative to how fast everyone else is going.

I guess I'm just obsessive-compulsive enough to watch my instruments while I'm flying. I got that way during my IFR training. Old habits, and all that...

GrumpyReign #26 Posted 18 August 2013 - 07:43 PM

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it's not a matter of watching v not watching your instruments, it's a matter of what the ticks imply. the feet or meters indicated are no more real or meaningful than the g-force you can't feel to determine where you are in your yoyo.

Yes, I am an A-S-S.

 

I am welcomed in the home of ravens and other scavengers in the wake of warriors.
I am friend to carrion crows and wolves.
I am carry me and kill with me and die with me where the road ends.
I am not the honeyed promise of length of life in years to come,
I am the iron promise of never being a slave.


Pogo68 #27 Posted 18 August 2013 - 07:46 PM

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If the Devs are in Russia, then almost all the military aircraft that they can get on will be Russian.
MiG-29's 23's SU-27 and such.
All will have the Russian style instruments.
DICTA BOELCKE for WoWP
    1. Try to secure the upper hand before attacking.
    2. Always continue with an attack you have begun
    3. Open fire only at close range, and then only when the opponent is squarely in your sights
    4. You should always try to keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses
    5. In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind
    6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try run away from his attack, but fly to meet it
    7. When over the enemy's lines, always remember your own line of retreat
    8. It is better to attack in groups of four or six. Avoid two aircraft attacking the same opponent

Traurig_Yoda #28 Posted 19 August 2013 - 06:26 PM

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AS OF PATCH -- FIXED!

Jinxed_Katajainen #29 Posted 19 August 2013 - 06:58 PM

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View PostTraurig_Yoda, on 19 August 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

AS OF PATCH -- FIXED!

I don't see it fixed at all...

triptyx #30 Posted 19 August 2013 - 07:21 PM

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Not seeing it fixed here either.

Traurig_Yoda #31 Posted 19 August 2013 - 08:09 PM

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all 3 variants are western style and reflect the horizon correctly.

Jinxed_Katajainen #32 Posted 19 August 2013 - 08:43 PM

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View PostTraurig_Yoda, on 19 August 2013 - 08:09 PM, said:

all 3 variants are western style and reflect the horizon correctly.

Can you post a screenshot?
I've tried all three of them and none of the horizontal lines are matching up with the horizon.

Variant 1 doesn't move, although the 'little plane' seems to be accurate in relation to the 'horizon' in the indicator, this view is also the hardest to tell your pitch angle due to how the 'little plane' moves around the indicator.
Variant 2 it moves backwards
Variant 3 is only accurate in pitch, bank angle shows up backwards if you line up the horizontal 0deg line and the line of your plane.

FreeFOXMIKE #33 Posted 19 August 2013 - 08:46 PM

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View PostElios0, on 03 July 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

there is no "russian" style is the same every where in the world they need to fix there broken game and get some one to take them flying for real because clearly none of the devs have ever been NEAR an aircraft
http://www.flightglo...t-HORIZON-(SEND).jpg
https://www.google.c...t-HORIZON-(SEND).jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.flightglobal.com%252Fblogs%252Flearmount%252F2009%252F02%252Fwhich_way_is_up_for_eastern_an%252F%3B1334%3B686
At one point, western AH/AI used a uniform background, typically black, with just white horizon line ie no colour difference between 'ground' & 'sky'.
To make ground & sky referencing easier to perceive the areas below & above the horizon were given different colours.
Western manufacturers chose light blue or grey coloured sky & dark ground (dark blue? Can't remember) with even later versions opting for a brown ground depiction.
Russian also opted for a different coloured depiction of ground & sky to enhance readability. In their case they chose a dark 'sky' & a light 'ground'.
Why? Only surmising here, but one possibility is that they were trying to represent night sky & snow covered terrain. It could be argued that this is a more commonly found condition of flight that requires the use of the instrument, since daytime allows the possibility of visual reference.
Considering that the Western style depiction (blue over brown) is only representative of sky/ground colouring under something like a cloudless day over a desert(ish) area who's to say which is more correct?
BTW, I seem to recall that Russian AHs don't use a moving horizon bar with a fixed a/c representation. Instead the horizon bar is fixed & the a/c moves.
Just a different frame of reference.
http://www.aviationt...ml#.UhKEd4OH9TI
https://www.google.c...chrome&ie=UTF-8
please do not fly a Russian plane with out a check ride :)

Edited by FreeFOXMIKE, 19 August 2013 - 09:11 PM.

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Traurig_Yoda #34 Posted 19 August 2013 - 10:00 PM

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View PostJinxed_Katajainen, on 19 August 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

Can you post a screenshot?
I've tried all three of them and none of the horizontal lines are matching up with the horizon.

Variant 1 doesn't move, although the 'little plane' seems to be accurate in relation to the 'horizon' in the indicator, this view is also the hardest to tell your pitch angle due to how the 'little plane' moves around the indicator.
Variant 2 it moves backwards
Variant 3 is only accurate in pitch, bank angle shows up backwards if you line up the horizontal 0deg line and the line of your plane.

Excuse the lousy pen on pic...
.
.
Posted Image

Jinxed_Katajainen #35 Posted 19 August 2013 - 10:05 PM

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View PostTraurig_Yoda, on 19 August 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

Excuse the lousy pen on pic...
.

Ok, so it only works when you're using the mouse.
I bank right with my joystick, the plane stays level and the background rotates so that the horizon is tilted.  The indicator rolls even further right and nothing lines up with the horizon like it's supposed to.

WoTSarge #36 Posted 29 September 2013 - 09:44 PM

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View Posttriptyx, on 03 July 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

I submitted a ticket about this a while back myself.  It's terrible the way it is right now.  Note: I'm not asking for additional instrumentation, the attached image is just the best one I've found that correctly demonstrates how a Pitch Ladder is supposed to work.

Posted Image

Yes, that's how it's supposed to look. It makes sense and the "russian" version makes no sense. FIX IT!

Nihtwaco #37 Posted 30 September 2013 - 04:45 AM

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I use the Variant one Green arc with no problems also mapped level plane to the L key for white out conditions. But it still could fly you into a mountain but you will be upright. Seems they need a 4th variant for US military pitch ladder.

IRCrimson #38 Posted 15 October 2013 - 07:14 AM

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I would appreciate a proper pitch ladder if for nothing else than being able to tell which direction is the easiest to get down when the nose is pointed up, I'm stalling, and I need to figure out where the ground is without screwing with a view hat, which is also terrible.

IanWten #39 Posted 03 November 2013 - 01:45 AM

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This is the coolest thing I have learned about aircraft instrumentation and navigation in about sixty years. And I'm not fifty years old yet. :playing:

Really, thanks for the tid-bit. That picture makes clear all the problems and potential explanations. Also, now that I have learned of this "new" (a.k.a. "Russian") possibility, I'm amazed that this confusion hasn't come up more often, not only for this but also for other forms of instrumentation.

View PostJinxed_Katajainen, on 03 July 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

Yes there is a Russian style.

Posted Image





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