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How Throttle SHOULD Work


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SOTKungfu #21 Posted 03 March 2012 - 01:25 AM

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i was a bit confused at the throttle mechanism of the game and am glad i am not alone.


i have a logitech extreme 3d pro joystick and have noticed a few odd things


1) i have mapped accelerate and thottle down to the throttle control which comes in as axis 6+/-  which works in its limited capability.  

     It would be very nice to have analog control of the throttle.  
     I had to verify that my joystick was working correctly in control panel I thought the throttle was sticking or something!

2) when i map controls to the joystick buttons, they come in with very odd descriptions that do not correspond with what the buttons actually are.  


I mapped button 4 to boost and that is labeled 'J Squared' instead of J4

I mapped button 6 to engine off and that is labeled J15 instead of J6


The trigger is labeled JY instead of J1 which is what it is mapped to (Button 1)


Rear View is labeled JL2 instead of J5 which is what it is mapped to (Button 5)

Sniper Mode is labeled J8 instead of J3 which is what it is mapped to (Button 3)

I mapped Snap To Target to Button 9 and that is labeled 'J Black'

Hat Left is mislabeled 'JP upright' instead of JP left

Hat Up and Right properly maps and labels as 'JP upright' and this does not cause a conflict when you apply.

I mapped Launch Rocket to Button 2 and that is mislabeled as J8 instead of J2

I mapped Push to Talk to Button 10 and that is mislabeled as J4


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_Luna #22 Posted 03 March 2012 - 04:41 AM

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Im glad I looked 1st, I was about to start this same thread.

I also feel boost end engine shut off should not be associated with the throttle on the joystick.
It is very hard to manage in its current form. Like the OP has experienced, the boost zone on the throttle is pretty much the top half of its travel distance.
I have 5 buttons on the top of my joystick and have taken to binding 2 of them of throttle up and down rather than use the slide with how it works now.
Im using a Saitek Cyborg V.1

MrBabai #23 Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:19 AM

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View PostLunamaria, on 03 March 2012 - 04:41 AM, said:

... have taken to binding 2 of them of throttle up and down rather than use the slide with how it works now.

Exactly what i did with my warthog.

scurrg #24 Posted 05 March 2012 - 10:38 PM

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Currently, with throttle mapped to an axis, you get a step up/down in throttle when you move the control up or down.  So it's like a sequential shifter on a car.  It would be great to just have the throttle mapped directly to the axis.   And hopefully full throttle doesn't go to engine boost mode.  

I also have the same strange variety of button labels.  I'm using an MS sidewinder precision pro.

Lev_Astov #25 Posted 06 March 2012 - 09:40 PM

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I concur that we need a functional throttle axis.  As it is, using the throttle on a joystick simply switches between constantly toggling up or down on engine speed, as scurrg described.

I also strongly feel that W and S should default to throttle + and -, respectively; then buttons like Q and E could serve as Boost and Cut Engine, or something like that.  Throttle control is very important in a flight sim of any complexity, and I don't feel it would be too confusing to flight sim newbs to include that.  That is up for debate, though, obviously.
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destruya #26 Posted 07 March 2012 - 12:35 AM

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Ideally, the way it should work is you can max out/cruise at 100%, and the only way to exceed that would be another gradual adjuster in the form of an "overdrive" or supercharger, not the "boost" it is now.  Afterburners have ascending "zones" of power from 1-5, and I see no reason why that couldn't be how the "engine boost" works here.

You should be allowed to keep your engine at 100%+ ratings, but much like with the removed speed governor in WoT, you should do it knowing full well you're going to eventually damage or burn out your engine entirely.

If you want to implement something to help turns, put in a speed brake and flaps, don't force us to compromise forward motion and lift by cutting the engine.

warcraze #27 Posted 16 March 2012 - 04:38 AM

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I am having the same issue.  My throttle works fine on my sidewinder precision pro 2.  Every time I touch it WEP kicks on.  I checked the keymap profile, I have the joystick profile selected.  Under the boost/cut engine there is nothing selected under the joystick column.  I am not sure how the WEP is activating from my throttle.

Would love to be able to use my throttle like normal.

Edit - So far I have figure out that 50% throttle is max throttle according to the HUD.  Anything further than 50% automatically kicks in WEP regardless of the keymap settings for my joystick.

The controls do feel sluggish and a bit awkward. Its been a while since I have flown a WWII era combat flight sim so I may be used to the arcade-like flight controls in BF3.

kalabaddon #28 Posted 30 March 2012 - 03:15 PM

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I would think that if you wanted to keep wep on throttle for some reason,  at least make it coincide with the AB stop/bumper that most throttles have ( I could be wrong but I think the distance is standardized on throttles that have it ).  but to have it 1/2 way where no throttle on the market has a built in AB stop/bumper makes it hard.

also I agree that it should be a switch only but if you plan to keep both I would recommend using the AB stop/bump on throttles as the wep engage point.

Thanks

GeorgePatton #29 Posted 30 March 2012 - 03:40 PM

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Currently, the throttle works pretty well with the HOTAS Warthog. If I put my afterburner stop on my throttle unit, the boost kicks in pretty much when I pull it over the afterburner stop.


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kalabaddon #30 Posted 30 March 2012 - 03:46 PM

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on my warthog with sen at max and deadzone at min the boost engages at exactly halfway point,  did you change anything?, cause on mine it does not seem to sync up.  I just reversed the ab stop and it still seems to engage to late ( about 3/4 throttle vs 1/2 )

GeorgePatton #31 Posted 30 March 2012 - 03:58 PM

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No, I didn't change anything on mine, but there is a little bit of a difference between the actual AB stop and where the boost engages. It is very minimal, so I don't really mind too much.


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kalabaddon #32 Posted 30 March 2012 - 05:25 PM

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Ahh. Ok. I was just suggesting that they move the wep activation point higher in the throttle band so it is not engaged till after most joystick brands AB stop.

deskwizard #33 Posted 31 March 2012 - 03:27 PM

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totally agree on the throttle issue... 100% should be 100%!
It's a real plague as it is... I really hope this is addressed!
It such a great game already, that tweak would make it even better!

beetmonger #34 Posted 01 April 2012 - 03:45 AM

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I've got the same issue as OP. I'm using a Thrustmaster Hotas X. I tried remapping the throttle control to the throttle axis and boost to a button, but I still get the same behavior. Kinda frustrating. Doesn't keep me from playing the game for hours on end, mind you...

Diesel93PT #35 Posted 01 April 2012 - 03:19 PM

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View PostZnath, on 10 January 2012 - 05:55 PM, said:

I'm not sure how this is on all joysticks, but something I've noticed is this:

If you have throttle at max, it keeps at max, that's fine and makes sense.  

But the second you mess with it at all,...
it  goes into boost mode.  And then keeps doing so constantly if you keep the throttle maxed.
I have to then lower my throttle axis down to nearly HALF in order to prevent this.  But this doesn't bring my "Game Throttle" to half, it brings it just barely below max.


How do I believe the throttle should work?

Max throttle axis means max throttle.  
Half means half.  
Zero means engine off.  
Then if I WANT the boost, press a totally separate boost button.
Boost SHOULD NOT be connected to the throttle axis at all.  I absolutely hate going into boost if I accidentally push into the boost zone on my throttle axis.  On top of that, the 'boost zone' is WAY TOO BIG.  Literally half my throttle is boost area.  I'm using a cheap Saitek ST290, it's cheap, trust me.  But I think this is going to be similar on others and I'm not sure how to fix it.  

It makes flight much harder in combat if you can't accurately control your throttle.

I've tried switching the throttle control to "accelerate" and engine off but that basically makes your throttle on/off.  And if you put the throttle as it is, you get the gradient throttle, but then half the axis is boost.  And I utterly hate that.

My idea for a solution:
Remove boost from being associated with throttle.  Just have it be some button totally split from the throttle axis.
Then expand the throttle's adjustment to cover the entire axis of the throttle on the joystick.
I think that would allow finer control during flight.

I agree.. But every control platform should have limited percentages of thrust... I mean, if you have a joystick with dedicated thrust axis, you would have a very big advantage over mouse and keyboard players (as said before).. So, i think the solution to that is, instead of having the thrust totally configurable, have a 10% thrust increase when you press W, or when you slide the axis forward, and if you keep pressing it it will keep increasing in predefined intervals, and the same goes for S or negative thrust axis...

Did i express myself well?  :Smile_hiding:

That would be a good way to fix it... A little like in World of Tanks that you have the auto thrust buttons, it keeps the thrust at a level you want.

ForceM1782 #36 Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:21 AM

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View PostSiThSpAwN, on 28 February 2012 - 03:26 AM, said:

Glad to see this being brought up, throttle makes no sense, I understand wanting to keep it even for mouse and keyboard users, but certainly they can figure soemthing out? Mouse wheel? Variable speed by pressing a key? I dont know, but as it is now, its pretty not good.

Edit: I just thought of this, but throttle is like BF3 flight right now, and thats not really a great thing....

I use a PS3 controller and i like it how it is, as i do not need a separate button to boost, but if i give less throttle i can not regulate it in steps or fluently by pressing the throttle down button, if i hold it a short while it just cuts the engine, and if i release it it goes back to full throttle.

I like it that way because you don't need a lot else anyway, but it should be possible to set throttle smoother at least for people that would like to hold half-throttle for a while or something else!

kaloralros #37 Posted 11 April 2012 - 04:23 AM

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Throttle is a sore subject for me. It seems the plane is stuck in the military throttle position, and we are only able to cut the engine throttle back or boost it, but only with holding the key.

Personally: I would like to see a throttle like what is present in WoT. W key to increase throttle, S to slow it down, in a slider sort of view. Double tapping W would boost the plane, and double tapping D would cut the engine out.

By default, the plane would start in the 50% position, allowing straight and level flight, and allow the player to adjust the throttle to perform formation flying, climbing or diving manuevers without having to hold a throttle key down to adjust speed while doing so.

As a note, attempting to use the keyboard to roll, slow, and turn with rudder can, on some keyboards, hit the "ghosting" limit, causing the last key input (say, firing guns, if using nothing but keyboard inputs) to be disregarded. Or, rolling, braking, slowing the throttle, extending flaps, and using the rudder. Allowing us to set the throttle like in WoT would eliminate the need for 1 of the above keys being used simultaneously.

Wallie81 #38 Posted 11 April 2012 - 06:07 AM

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You should check all the keybindings in the settings, you can increase and decrease throttle using + and - keys.

ForceM1782 #39 Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:22 AM

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Well i found those bindings but they do exactly what kaloralros said...
Same thing if you map them to a Gamepad (even to an axis)!

kaloralros #40 Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:05 PM

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perhaps i did miss something in settings, which i will test tonight or tomorrow when i get home, but from what i have seen and experienced, the throttle adjustments don't "stick", ie, i cannot seem to decrease throttle to say, 50%, and maintain straight level flight. Instead, decreasing throttle seems to act more like a brake, and upon releasing the key, the throttle seems to "spring" back to 100%.

Again, I could be wrong, and will double check. If this is not the case, then I stand corrected.

Interface wise, concerning throttle, I personally would like a WoT style throttle indicator that allows us to set a percentage of throttle usage, so I could set my throttle to match a team mate, or even a target, that would allow me to maintain a consistent speed (slower than full) in straight level flight, and free up keys to avoid ghosting on certain keyboards (I don't have to worry much about this as my keyboard is a gaming keyboard that allows up to 23 keys before "ghosting" occurs, but I could see it as a potential problem otherwise)

I'll repost my findings later when I can play with the bindings and controls and see if I can make it perform this way.




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