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Ammo Advise


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TheLucinator #1 Posted 03 May 2013 - 05:43 PM

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Would like to know what players think of how to best use the different ammo types?

Jinxed_Katajainen #2 Posted 03 May 2013 - 07:03 PM

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View PostTheLucinator, on 03 May 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

Would like to know what players think of how to best use the different ammo types?

So far I do not see much of a difference between the three other than how expensive the yellow and red ammo cans are

Proof of Ace:TSh-3 (2G), BSh-1 (2G), LBSh (A/2G), IL-2 (2G), IL-2(t) (3G), IL-8 (3G), IL-10 (2G), I-15, I-16 early, I-16 late (2A), P-40 M-105, La-5, Ar 197, Bf.109B, Bf.109C, Bf.109E/F, He.100, Bf109Z, Ao.192 (G), Bf.110B, Me.210, Me.410, P-23, Hawk 75M (2A), P-36 (2A), P-40, P-39, P-51A, F3F, F2A, F4F, 2PA-L, XFL-1, F4U, A6M1, A6M2, A6M5, A7M

Eon264 #3 Posted 03 May 2013 - 07:28 PM

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View PostJinxed_Katajainen, on 03 May 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

So far I do not see much of a difference between the three other than how expensive the yellow and red ammo cans are

Incendiary does the same damage as AP but with a 10% chance of fire. General purpose does more damage and still has a 10% chance of fire. Basically, if you can afford it there's no reason not to load GP ammo, as it's quite simply better. If you can't, load incen because it's not that much more for the same damage and pen but a great bonus in chance of fire.

If you're asking for ammo conservation tactics, really the only two are 1) know where to aim. That sounds easy, 'cause there's a lead indicator, but it's not as simple as that. I find there's no replacement for pilot experience, I fly without the indicator because I find it misleading and I don't trust it. 2) wait 'til you see the whites of their eyes. I don't fire unless I'm around 300m away, sometimes closer if I can risk it. chances are your first burst will deal the most damage because they don't know you're there yet. Make it count.



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BrushWolf #4 Posted 03 May 2013 - 08:22 PM

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View PostEon264, on 03 May 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

Incendiary does the same damage as AP but with a 10% chance of fire. General purpose does more damage and still has a 10% chance of fire. Basically, if you can afford it there's no reason not to load GP ammo, as it's quite simply better. If you can't, load incen because it's not that much more for the same damage and pen but a great bonus in chance of fire.

If you're asking for ammo conservation tactics, really the only two are 1) know where to aim. That sounds easy, 'cause there's a lead indicator, but it's not as simple as that. I find there's no replacement for pilot experience, I fly without the indicator because I find it misleading and I don't trust it. 2) wait 'til you see the whites of their eyes. I don't fire unless I'm around 300m away, sometimes closer if I can risk it. chances are your first burst will deal the most damage because they don't know you're there yet. Make it count.

Ammo conservation is not necessary other than avoiding the games overheat mechanism. My suggestion is to use short bursts unless you have a steady target such as a ground target or a sky whale in its bomb run, then pour it on. Find some WWII gun camera footage and you will see that fire at a fighter was generally only a few seconds, 3 - 5, the gun cameras ran for several seconds after the trigger was released. The better pilots might keep firing longer if their shots were hitting the target. Shots at bombers would last much longer as the target was easier to hit.
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Haswell #5 Posted 03 May 2013 - 08:30 PM

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View PostEon264, on 03 May 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

Incendiary does the same damage as AP but with a 10% chance of fire. General purpose does more damage and still has a 10% chance of fire. Basically, if you can afford it there's no reason not to load GP ammo, as it's quite simply better. If you can't, load incen because it's not that much more for the same damage and pen but a great bonus in chance of fire.

That's what the ingame stats say, which doesn't really tell the whole story...

There are armor values for every single plane and GT in the game. There are also armor negation values for all different ammunition types fired from different gun models. As you might have guessed, ammunition with a lower armor negation value will inflict less damage on heavily-armored planes and targets. From what I could tell from my personal observations (note: take with a grain of salt), I tend to inflict more reliable damage on a variety of planes with AP ammo, as opposed to incendiary and GP. On a rough estimation of armor negation ranking, my guess would be AP > GP > Incendiary, as I have observed from testing against bots.

Keep in mind though, different classes of planes have different average armor values. The ranking would be GA > HF > CBF > F, which means using incendiary or GP rounds on GA planes or heavies will inflict less damage on them as opposed to using AP. Against normal fighters and carrier-based fighters however, the damage inflicted with AP, GP and incendiary rounds remain roughly consistent throughout all three types. This means the most beneficial, and logical ammunition load for me would be pure AP rounds for all weapons, as I can be more versatile and maintain my damage output against all sorts of enemy planes.

As of patch 0.4.2, the chances of planes catching fire has been dramatically reduced in order to amplify the effects of GP and incendiary rounds. However, the effect of those ammunition types are merely a multiplier applied on top of the existing fire potential. Since the potential coefficient is already set to a very low value, the chances of a fire occurring are very slim, even when the specialized ammunition types are used.

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BrushWolf #6 Posted 03 May 2013 - 08:58 PM

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View PostHaswell, on 03 May 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

That's what the ingame stats say, which doesn't really tell the whole story...

There are armor values for every single plane and GT in the game. There are also armor negation values for all different ammunition types fired from different gun models. As you might have guessed, ammunition with a lower armor negation value will inflict less damage on heavily-armored planes and targets. From what I could tell from my personal observations (note: take with a grain of salt), I tend to inflict more reliable damage on a variety of planes with AP ammo, as opposed to incendiary and GP. On a rough estimation of armor negation ranking, my guess would be AP > GP > Incendiary, as I have observed from testing against bots.

Keep in mind though, different classes of planes have different average armor values. The ranking would be GA > HF > CBF > F, which means using incendiary or GP rounds on GA planes or heavies will inflict less damage on them as opposed to using AP. Against normal fighters and carrier-based fighters however, the damage inflicted with AP, GP and incendiary rounds remain roughly consistent throughout all three types. This means the most beneficial, and logical ammunition load for me would be pure AP rounds for all weapons, as I can be more versatile and maintain my damage output against all sorts of enemy planes.

As of patch 0.4.2, the chances of planes catching fire has been dramatically reduced in order to amplify the effects of GP and incendiary rounds. However, the effect of those ammunition types are merely a multiplier applied on top of the existing fire potential. Since the potential coefficient is already set to a very low value, the chances of a fire occurring are very slim, even when the specialized ammunition types are used.

Going from that using a mix of AP/GP/INC will get the best effect.
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von_Krimm #7 Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:13 PM

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Another annecdotal piece of evidence about ammo types, much like Haswell's (see below) is that my use of the GP belt appears to simply shred IL-40s in short order when using my F-86 as opposed to using the basic AP and the incendiary (which seems to take the longest to kill an Il-40); I surmise that the GP belt includes the AP type "bonus" 9which is odd to say as it is the stock ammo type) and a smidge more penetration bonus without the Incendiary types precieved lowered penetration.  Again, this is only random observation and not an empirical study on my part; I could be wildly incorrect in my conclusion.

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BrushWolf #8 Posted 04 May 2013 - 02:52 AM

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View PostSkyWolf__WM, on 03 May 2013 - 10:50 PM, said:

It seems to me that if you can hit what you are aiming at ammo choice is not very important.

True if you have the shooting ability of Butch O'Hare or Werner Voss but most of us will look at a 20% hit rate as awesome.
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Eon264 #9 Posted 04 May 2013 - 05:25 AM

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View PostBrushWolf, on 04 May 2013 - 02:52 AM, said:

True if you have the shooting ability of Butch O'Hare or Werner Voss but most of us will look at a 20% hit rate as awesome.

Mine's ten and I'm fine with that =D

Personally I've not noticed any real difference between the ammo types, but then I normally crawl right up an opponents tail pipe before firing so that could be why. Shooting at IL's with GP, much like skywolf said, I've been able to shred them with no negative consequences when it comes to my choice of ammo. Then again, I've been flying planes with cannons so that could be why too. I'm kind of stuck going with the in-game stats if I'm not observing anything while flying lol. If this is the case though then we need armor and armor-piercing stats on our planes and guns respectively ASAP.



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BrushWolf #10 Posted 04 May 2013 - 07:01 AM

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View PostEon264, on 04 May 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

Mine's ten and I'm fine with that =D


Mine is 11.  :tongue:
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